XP Reducer

[Celt_Ainvar]

One thing I miss when Playing Shadow of Angmar was the Unknown. Before I did the deeds and such I still did not know Shire and a few other areas. If I started this game and if I had the abilty to stop my XP or even slow it down. The areas I skipped Would give some fear to me at the right level It would made the game harder Something I long for. It would give me the challange That I miss from Shadow of angmar.

I watch many of my friends Pass me in level. They Begged me to level up with them. Many of them go why why why. I seid no. I was one of the frist to have moria it took untel 2 months ago for me to be level 60. yes I know that slow.

Now many of my friends left lotro telling me now they understand why I never level up fast. They got tired of being turn down to do fellowship/raids due to lack or Deeds and combat traits. So many kinship fallen due to this.

The XP Reducer is to make a challange to newbies so they can understand what skills do what roles do a class take.

Do any of you think having a level 60 LM that has less then 336 hours of play get in your raid or fellowship and get your whole group killed due to the fact he she dose not know what the pet dose or understand how to control it or how to CC. Or not knowing how to heal them selfs by flanking. Then have skills they have not level up.


I rather sit by a Noob 1000 hours to help them. Then sit by a Power leveler for a few mins..

[Kraggy]

The XP Reducer is to make a challange to newbies so they can understand what skills do what roles do a class take.

The one group of players who IMO almost certainly WON'T use such a feature are the new players. New players aren't interested in class skills and group roles for some considerable time. Early on they're busy learning simply how to play the game and coming to terms with its' mechanics. They're also unlikely to be bothered about what there is to do over in Ered Luin when they're still working their way through Bree-Land.

By the time they've amassed enough class skills to even begin to worry about which to use when, or how they fit into a group, they're well able to find their own challenges.

There are several arguments I can see in favor of this, but suggesting it'd be good for newbies really isn't one of them, for me.

[FoxFire]

There are several arguments I can see in favor of this, but suggesting it'd be good for newbies really isn't one of them, for me.

Sure maybe not all (or most) newbies would use this feature, but there is a fair number that would, and even those high level characters who create alts may decide they want to take a little more time to thoroughly understand their class.

I would definitely have used this feature as a newbie, and will certainly use it (should it ever be implemented) on any new classes I create. I think it is very valuable to get to know and understand the uses and effects of each new skill as you earn them. Because you level SO damn fast in LoTRO you never really get to learn how to use your character and his skills as effectively as possible.

Take the Warden's gambit skills, for instance. Gambits take a lot of practice to learn how to set up, to learn what is the best situation to use a particular gambit in, and simply to learn what the effects of each gambit is. If I wanted to go out to practice my gambits on mobs, I couldn't do it without racking up boat loads of XP. And it's pretty much useless to practice gambits on any mobs below white because you've killed the mob before you've even finished the gambit, or you pull off the gambit, but don't see the long term effects, and you certainly can't practice how to use multiple gambits and survive in a long term fight by killing low level mobs.

So sure, while there are plenty of newbies out there who just want to button-mash, level, and blow through all the areas to end game as quickly as possible, there are certainly those of us who want to take a more methodical slow going approach so that we can fully experience each area, feel like we've really gotten to know each area, and our own skills, and lived a long, arduous, tough, and exciting adventure. So... not only are our characters well seasoned and adventured, but we as players are also, with an intimate knowledge of our character's skills and abilities.

[Thrandiul110]

Sure maybe not all (or most) newbies would use this feature, but there is a fair number that would, and even those high level characters who create alts may decide they want to take a little more time to thoroughly understand their class.

I would definitely have used this feature as a newbie, and will certainly use it (should it ever be implemented) on any new classes I create. I think it is very valuable to get to know and understand the uses and effects of each new skill as you earn them. Because you level SO damn fast in LoTRO you never really get to learn how to use your character and his skills as effectively as possible.

Take the Warden's gambit skills, for instance. Gambits take a lot of practice to learn how to set up, to learn what is the best situation to use a particular gambit in, and simply to learn what the effects of each gambit is. If I wanted to go out to practice my gambits on mobs, I couldn't do it without racking up boat loads of XP. And it's pretty much useless to practice gambits on any mobs below white because you've killed the mob before you've even finished the gambit, or you pull off the gambit, but don't see the long term effects, and you certainly can't practice how to use multiple gambits and survive in a long term fight by killing low level mobs.

So sure, while there are plenty of newbies out there who just want to button-mash, level, and blow through all the areas to end game as quickly as possible, there are certainly those of us who want to take a more methodical slow going approach so that we can fully experience each area, feel like we've really gotten to know each area, and our own skills, and lived a long, arduous, tough, and exciting adventure. So... not only are our characters well seasoned and adventured, but we as players are also, with an intimate knowledge of our character's skills and abilities.

What in the blue blazes are you talking about? How on earth can you read peoples minds and determine if they are going to slow down a lot to "learn the character"? Really, it all comes down to the person, not time played. I got a hunter leveled up and radiance geared in about 3 weeks during the summer and, although I'm not the best hunter, I'm decent enough.

Pushing an XP reducing option based on the assumption it will eventually make players more "skilled" is a faulty plan. The only REAL example I see of not being able to do every single quest is the starter zones/lone lands, (although lone lands is getting a revamp) I've yet to see evidence besides people stating "I'll get to do every zone." Exactly how much of your "experience" is sucked away by not doing every single little quest? Is it even realistic for your character to do every single little quest in the first place, let alone at the proper level? And finally, there is still the problem of the fact that:

a) Not many people want this at all

b) Clumsy people that forget to turn the XP button back on and miss a ton of experience, therefore their "level" experience will be reduced to grinding a ton of mobs.

I'm not saying the world will come crashing down, but an XP reducer is simply unrealistic and not needed: there's a lot more that Turbine could do in the time it might take.

[henry316]

Sure maybe not all (or most) newbies would use this feature, but there is a fair number that would, and even those high level characters who create alts may decide they want to take a little more time to thoroughly understand their class.

I would definitely have used this feature as a newbie

I would have as well. I started looking for the toggle to turn off rested XP around the time I hit level 30ish on my first character. I wanted to slow down XP gain on my main well before the revamps or adjusted leveling curves ever occurred.

[FoxFire]

I would have as well. I started looking for the toggle to turn off rested XP around the time I hit level 30ish on my first character. I wanted to slow down XP gain on my main well before the revamps or adjusted leveling curves ever occurred.

Hey! Look at that, I must have read your mind, Henry!

I'm glad many people here don't have reading comprehension problems, and/or don't assume it takes mind reading to make a determination that a certain number of people will use an XP reducing mechanism for a variety of reasons, including taking the time to learn their character's existing skills better before moving on and obtaining new skills.

Henry316 is a good example of someone who didn't initially think about reducing the amount of XP they were getting until he later discovered that it would be useful to have something like that.

Myself, I was advocating for a means to eliminate rest XP way back in closed Beta. It was one of the first things I looked for, as I'd already had the experience of loathing rest XP back while playing WoW. I was very disappointed that I couldn't avoid Rest XP in LoTRO, and it was even worse than in WoW. At least with WoW, you could somewhat mitigate the amount you got by logging out outside of towns and inns. Apparently some smart guy at Turbine said "Hey! We're going to go one step ahead of WoW and give full, even more accelerated, rest XP, no matter where you log out in the world! Won't everyone absolutely love THAT!" Now I almost always have a Blue Bar and I absolutely HATE it.

Just as an aside, at least another thing in WoW, was the option to join a full world PvP server. I loved that, because danger lurked around every corner whenever you stepped outside of the safe zones. When a friend of mine convinced me to move my main over to the PvE server he was on, I found myself so bored and unstimulated that it wasn't long before I quit the game. This was before they had the option to stop XP gain. At least with such a mechanism, one could always have the thrill of danger in the PvE world without having to skip over huge amounts of content in order to find such challenges.

This is what LoTRO is to me... You can choose major challenges by skipping over large portions of the content (but those challenges will accelerate your level gain even quicker), or you can choose to enjoy the content at significantly reduced challenge levels, which outside of the story line and seeing new places is very mundane and boring. The only reason I REALLY stay is that I love Middle Earth, the gaming value is pretty low to me without ongoing challenges (But I don't want to skip over much of the content, and I don't want to have to play 7 different characters to max level in order to experience most of it either).

So, yeah clearly there IS a demand for this. It just so happens that the most vocal about it visit the forums. There are bound to be far more who would enjoy such a feature who've never set foot in the forums (assuming they stuck around at all). It may not be a majority demand. Even 30%, Even 10% is a justifiable level of interest in such features. Turbine has put in quite a bit of content where there was little to no clamoring for it, and quite a bit that gets a small minority of players who use them on a regular basis.

An XP reducing mechanism would be used by a minority of players on a regular basis, making them significantly more content with the game, more apt to recommend the game to others and tout it online, and it would attract a particular breed of gamer. Don't think the other MMORPGs out there which HAVE put in this feature hadn't thought of these issues. They have, and they concluded it was a GOOD idea.

[floon]

Even 30%, Even 10% is a justifiable level of interest in such features.

You'd be surprised by how many orders of magnitude you overestimate this.

[FoxFire]

You'd be surprised by how many orders of magnitude you overestimate this.

I'd be interested in knowing where Turbine derives its numbers from. I HOPE that it's not simply from one small obscure survey question in the forums.

And what do you think the level of interest was in the other popular MMORPGs out there where the developers and decision makers DID determine it was worth the effort to put in such a feature?

If the interest was any higher in those games, why would that be? Surely it can't be because more players in those worlds find them more interesting and want to stick around in each area a bit longer before being leveled out of them. I seriously doubt that. Personally I suspect the interest level was just as high, or maybe even lower, in those games.

[DarkCntry]

I'd be interested in knowing where Turbine derives its numbers from. I HOPE that it's not simply from one small obscure survey question in the forums.

Wow...just wow...

[skorpion352]

I'd be interested in knowing where Turbine derives its numbers from. I HOPE that it's not simply from one small obscure survey question in the forums.

And what do you think the level of interest was in the other popular MMORPGs out there where the developers and decision makers DID determine it was worth the effort to put in such a feature?

If the interest was any higher in those games, why would that be? Surely it can't be because more players in those worlds find them more interesting and want to stick around in each area a bit longer before being leveled out of them. I seriously doubt that. Personally I suspect the interest level was just as high, or maybe even lower, in those games.

id be interested to know what games do offer this feature, cause i certianly havent heard of any

[henry316]

id be interested to know what games do offer this feature, cause i certianly havent heard of any

As I understand it (from other folks' posts) Everquest and WoW have this feature.

[Baresira]

I know WoW offers a way to shut off XP gain. I happened across the NPC that did it the other day.

[FoxFire]

Wow...just wow...

Wow what?

Or did you mean WoW just WoW?

id be interested to know what games do offer this feature, cause i certianly havent heard of any

As has been mentioned, among the more popular ones today, EQ2 and WoW.

Also DAoC has this, VG, AO, and a number of others I can't think of off the top of my head.

It's a commonly requested feature of some number of players among most MMORPGs.

[Kyrra_T]

Wow...just wow...

I'd make a wild guess at probably some of the market surveys that are randomly sent out to the player base (Focus Groups@turbine.com). I've filled out more than a few of them, asking about xp reduction was one of the questions on the last one as I recall.

[Kyrra_T]

id be interested to know what games do offer this feature, cause i certianly havent heard of any

Nah DAOC had it toward the end of the 5 years my hubby and I played over there. I tend to think of the feature as a mature game's last throes of life feature myself but that's just me.

[FoxFire]

I'd make a wild guess at probably some of the market surveys that are randomly sent out to the player base (Focus Groups@turbine.com). I've filled out more than a few of them, asking about xp reduction was one of the questions on the last one as I recall.

That's interesting. I wonder how they decide who to send these marketing surveys to. You say you've filled out more than a few of them. I've been with LoTRO from the very beginning, have had my Turbine account longer (DDO), and am on each of the Turbine Newsletter mailing lists that I know of, but I've never received a single 'marketing survey'.

Do you recall exactly what the question was on the survey regarding XP reduction mechanisms. Was it clear that this would be an optional use feature? Did it explain that with such a mechanism in place that Turbine would be able to offer even MORE accelerated XP gains for those who like that?

[Steale]

I have always been very much in favor of this idea. I have always posted in support of it in the forums, though I must admit that I have not kept up on the most current discussions because statements from devs have discouraged me from continuing to pursue it.

I know this isn't a new idea. I have seen it posted before. But it has been a while, and I'd like to reintroduce it to the discussion. I apologize if it is here and I just didn't see it.

Would a "level up button" require less resources to implement while still accomplishing what most supporters want?

I don't mean instant leveling with no playing. I just mean that instead of leveling automatically when you reach the required experience point amount, you won't level until you click the button or check a box or whatever.

This wouldn't affect the accumulation of experience points at all. They would continue to accrue exactly as they do now. Each time you click the button, you would gain one level, IF you had enough experience points already. No worries about losing any points, but you would still have control over how long you remain your current level.

One issue I can see is if the character level is not stored as a value, but is instead derived from the experience point total and a level table every time it is referenced. Only the devs know if this is true or not.

Trying to "prove" that there is sufficient interest in this function to elevate its priority is not appearing to make any progress.

I freely admit that I know nothing of the code behind LotRO, but it seems to me that our best hope of getting what we want may be to find a compromise that will provide the functionality that we want while somehow becoming the "low hanging fruit" that the devs have time to implement and test.

Could this "level up button" be such a compromise?

[BIGeyedBUG]

I know WoW offers a way to shut off XP gain. I happened across the NPC that did it the other day.

To be fair, these were put in to WoW in order for Battlegrounds players to have the option of staying inside their desired PvP level brackets. Little different audience there.

I still think a way to defer levels (Not "Reduce or elimate XP".) would be a really nice thing in LOTRO, and more widely used than in more endgame-oriented MMOs. But whether the benefits and usage justify the cost of implementing it properly, I don't know. Apparently Turbine has calculated the answer is 'no'.

[Sssnapdragon]

Turbine's decision makes sense to me. Absolutely nothing tells you that you can't continue to do quests in an area; nothing forces you to move on. When quests turn grey and you don't get xp for them anymore...that's the same as an XP off button.

[FoxFire]

I have always been very much in favor of this idea. I have always posted in support of it in the forums, though I must admit that I have not kept up on the most current discussions because statements from devs have discouraged me from continuing to pursue it.

I know this isn't a new idea. I have seen it posted before. But it has been a while, and I'd like to reintroduce it to the discussion. I apologize if it is here and I just didn't see it.

Would a "level up button" require less resources to implement while still accomplishing what most supporters want?

I would personally be amenable to this compromise. It is not the ideal solution to me, but it would effectively accomplish what I'm looking for.

As this would change what most players expect (automatic leveling), it would probably be best to include a check-box in the Options that would dictate whether you automatically level, or have to click a button to level, the default remaining that you automatically level.

There are a variety of ways also that Turbine could prevent players from having problems of forgetting to level, such as a pop-up or other reminder when a player logs in to tell them that they are eligible to level, perhaps along with a warning that failing to level might cause them a lengthy grind down the road.

[FoxFire]

Turbine's decision makes sense to me. Absolutely nothing tells you that you can't continue to do quests in an area; nothing forces you to move on. When quests turn grey and you don't get xp for them anymore...that's the same as an XP off button.

You are WAY late to this conversation, if you don't understand by now that what you are saying is far FAR from what the issues people are having with the current leveling rate.

Please read all of this thread and the many other threads related to this topic to gain a world of insight into the numerous issues various players are having due to the lack of any XP reducing control.

[jayspeed]

Apparently it's not enough players for them to spend the resources to implement such a feature. I'm all for having options this way everyone is happy. But everyone wouldn't be happy. You'd have people complaining about Turbine spending resources on an XP reducer rather than making a new region with new quests. Same argument is made against PvMP by the PvE only players.

[Kyrra_T]

That's interesting. I wonder how they decide who to send these marketing surveys to. You say you've filled out more than a few of them. I've been with LoTRO from the very beginning, have had my Turbine account longer (DDO), and am on each of the Turbine Newsletter mailing lists that I know of, but I've never received a single 'marketing survey'.

Do you recall exactly what the question was on the survey regarding XP reduction mechanisms. Was it clear that this would be an optional use feature? Did it explain that with such a mechanism in place that Turbine would be able to offer even MORE accelerated XP gains for those who like that?

Maybe I have a cooler marketing demographic. Honestly I bet its fairly random. But its possible they are looking for the female feedback and that is why I got lucky on the surveys. No, the question was nowhere near that detailed, nor would that have been a helpful level of detail for a survey. Keep it simple applies on marketing survey questions, at least it did when I was taking marketing classes long ago and far away in college.

[densha82]

I'd be interested in knowing where Turbine derives its numbers from. I HOPE that it's not simply from one small obscure survey question in the forums.

Read my signature and weep

[Teldra]

As I understand it (from other folks' posts) Everquest and WoW have this feature.

EQ and WoW.. Left both those games. I wonder why... ?

Teldra