XP Reducer

[SgtAnderso]

Personally I agree with Floon that the XP Reducer is a bad idea. However, I also believe that it will get added to the list of requests which I would expect is very large.

What I find distrubing is the amount of disregard for the comments by the Devs. What I mean by this is it appears that most think that the Devs only have an understanding of LOTRO and have Tunnell Vision. The Devs have the ability through other networks to get statistics on certain features used in games and how these features impact the overall performance Good or Bad. Just because an Idea sounds like the best thing ever and works great in other games doesn't mean it will work as well in this one.

I also don't recall any Dev saying they would not implement this idea, regardless of being for or against. One Dev doesn't make the final decision, if that was all it took this game would have gone into the trash can along time ago.

We as players only see the game, we don't see the back end workings and adminstrative work that goes on to support this game. For all we know the features of the game work perfectly and all is well. Kind of like a duck on water, all is calm on the surface but turbulant as hell underneath. The Devs could be very correct in that it would cause a CS Nigtmare if this feature was added. We as players would have no clue one way or another if it was or not. Those wanting it would be like oh hell I forgot to turn it on, my bad... Those who just discovered it and thought it was cool and forgot to turn it off would be like ### and place a ticket to the CS Group wanting there XP... We don't know if the Devs did some research on this issue or not, they may be speaking from personal experience, research, or personal opinions.

All in All, this is by far IMO the best game available. Regardless of this feature or not, they will continue to expand this game adding in more content and more player requests.

Personally I found a work around. I have alts at different levels that I only level with in certain groups so preventing them from leveling too fast. Then I have my Solo and High-Level Toon that I use to learn all of the upper level content so I can learn the new areas. I also do gray questing on this toon for fun.

[FoxFire]

Say what? It's an either or situation?

No, sorry...I believe that when a developer states something that they have done what they have said they have done (in this case, floon stated that they have looked into this and found the benefit to be outweighed by the cost). That doesn't mean that I perceive them as a God, it only means that I take what they say as an authority on the subject, much in the same way as if I go into a Doctor's office and am told that I have a cold. I don't talk to some random guy on the street for that.

Great! I generally trust the Doctor's opinion and conclusions as well, however that STILL doesn't mean that the Doctor is infallible and couldn't possibly be wrong.

I don't think anyone has disputed that Turbine Devs (and their marketing department) are knowledgeable and capable. We still disagree with their conclusion. We have no idea how much thought and consideration they even put into this idea.

When a Dev can tell us, "Yes we sat down and had very lengthy discussions on this feature where we touched on each and every one of the valid points that have been brought up in the forums (and by Devs in favor of this), and we thought long and hard about it, we did extensive research and analysis, and in the end we came to a pretty definitive conclusion that this feature does NOT make good business sense", then I might be more inclined to believe they've likely come to the correct conclusion for Turbine (not individual players or the game in general).

And yet, even so, that still wouldn't mean they've ABSOLUTELY come to the right conclusion, or that further arguments couldn't be made which might change their calculations.

[DarkCntry]

Great! I generally trust the Doctor's opinion and conclusions as well, however that STILL doesn't mean that the Doctor is infallible and couldn't possibly be wrong.

I don't think anyone has disputed that Turbine Devs (and their marketing department) are knowledgeable and capable. We still disagree with their conclusion. We have no idea how much thought and consideration they even put into this idea.

When a Dev can tell us, "Yes we sat down and had very lengthy discussions on this feature where we touched on each and every one of the valid points that have been brought up in the forums (and by Devs in favor of this), and we thought long and hard about it, we did extensive research and analysis, and in the end we came to a pretty definitive conclusion that this feature does NOT make good business sense", then I might be more inclined to believe they've likely come to the correct conclusion for Turbine (not individual players or the game in general).

And yet, even so, that still wouldn't mean they've ABSOLUTELY come to the right conclusion, or that further arguments couldn't be made which might change their calculations.

It doesn't matter how much they talked about it and for how long, what matters is a developer said something definitive about the subject and you (and the seeming few cohorts) seem to be disavowing what floon said simply because he's just one developer and that somehow the collective masses know the in's and out's of adding a specific feature better than him.

[Beldacar]

Believe it or not, I can come to a different conclusion. Mine is that someone who is better informed than I am has stated that, at the moment, they are not planning to implement this feature based on the balancing of perceived need versus cost.

If my dentist tells me I need to have a tooth filled, I tend to believe him no matter how much I'd rather not get that filling. Doesn't mean I deify him.

I'll concur. However:

A. If a doctor tells me I need to have a limb amputated, I'll get a second opinion.

B. A dentist or doctor is a "professional" in the sense that they have pursued a "rigorous course of study" and the majority of their work consists of making judgment calls based on their knowledge and experience. Frankly, there's no one in the gaming industry who fits that description. Game design is more art than science.

So, while I weight floon's opinion considerably higher on the scale than that of a random individual off the street, and higher than that of the average player, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to weight it higher than my own. I've probably been playing these games longer than he's been working on them, I've probably played more of them than he has, and based on his post, I believe he misunderstands my position on the subject, as he has proposed a mentoring system as an alternative (and a mentoring system barely addresses a small number of my concerns).

Now, I believe him when he says that no one is working on the feature and that there is no perceived need by Turbine for the feature. I'm simply trying to convince anyone who chooses to read this topic that there =should= be a perceived need for the feature.

-The levelling curve is too fast.
-Players constantly outlevel quest chains before completing them.
-Players constantly outlevel quest rewards before earning them.

Show me an option that addresses these core problems without unnecessarily burdening those players who do want to rush to the endgame, and I'll reconsider the need for an XP throttle. So far, no one has come up with a viable alternative.

[Beldacar]

Even if he is wrong, Turbine owns the game, Turbine makes the rules.

I do (or rather, did before it turned into this "if you don't agree with me then you must worship Turbine" fest) fully support this idea. But telling the devs that they're wrong and demanding the change is just as effective as walking up to a Wal-Mart cashier and demanding that they stock the same brands as the competitor store up the street.

If you want your voice to be heard, you might want to start by not insulting the only dev who paid attention to your argument. At this point, you're not only failing to gain dev support, you're losing support from players who otherwise would support the idea.

When did telling someone that you believe they're wrong suddenly become an insult? Really?

First GregJL suggests that proponents of the XP throttle have called floon a "liar," but now disagreeing with floon is the same as insulting him?

Please, get a grip....

[FoxFire]

. But telling the devs that they're wrong and demanding the change is just as effective as walking up to a Wal-Mart cashier and demanding that they stock the same brands as the competitor store up the street.

Ah, but here is your and other's apparent misunderstanding. NOBODY is telling the Devs that they are absolutely, definitively, without question, wrong! Only that we believe that there is a chance that they COULD be wrong about this, and that perhaps they have not taken everything into consideration, but if they have, here are some ADDITIONAL points to be made in favor of this idea.

Some here apparently are under the impression that if the advocates disagree with the conclusion, that we are questioning the infallibility of the Devs, or calling them incompetent dolts who don't fully understand their own business. This is absurd. We can disagree with (or question) their conclusion WITHOUT saying they are absolutely without a doubt wrong.

[DarkCntry]

So, while I weight floon's opinion considerably higher on the scale than that of a random individual off the street, and higher than that of the average player, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to weight it higher than my own. I've probably been playing these games longer than he's been working on them, I've probably played more of them than he has, and based on his post, I believe he misunderstands my position on the subject, as he has proposed a mentoring system as an alternative (and a mentoring system barely addresses a small number of my concerns).

The one thing I will reply to is this...floon's not exactly a newbie in this industry and has been working with Turbine for quite some time, and under his belt has plenty of experience to back up his claims, which is why he's a senior in his department.

What I believe is that he doesn't misunderstand, but is compromising in place.

[FoxFire]

When did telling someone that you believe they're wrong suddenly become an insult? Really?

First GregJL suggests that proponents of the XP throttle have called floon a "liar," but now disagreeing with floon is the same as insulting him?

Please, get a grip....

The key word there being "BELIEVE".

Yeah, some people are excessively sensitive to the feelings of Devs who post here (far more than the Devs themselves), to the point of any disagreement is seen as some sort of personal attack.

[DarkCntry]

The key word there being "BELIEVE".

Yeah, some people are excessively sensitive to the feelings of Devs who post here (far more than the Devs themselves), to the point of any disagreement is seen as some sort of personal attack.

But there's no difference in those who keep pushing agendas when they were flatly told that it wasn't within current restraints in place, even when they were given valid, factual reasons.

So while you may see those who defend the developers like that, many see you as what I just listed above, and therefor makes you no better and actually far worse.

[Beldacar]

The one thing I will reply to is this...floon's not exactly a newbie in this industry and has been working with Turbine for quite some time, and under his belt has plenty of experience to back up his claims, which is why he's a senior in his department.

What I believe is that he doesn't misunderstand, but is compromising in place.

I'm not exactly a newbie either. As a very long-term customer of Turbine, I can say that they have a very long history of "not having the resources" to implement features. Strangely enough, a year or two down the line they find the resources. But only if a sufficient number of players indicate that they really want the features.

I learned long ago to take nothing that comes from Turbine as "set in stone." (Nor from any other MMO developer, for that matter.)

Maybe I'll take the time to do an independent survey. There are a few sites out there that offer "free poll" and "free survey" type applications.

[FoxFire]

But there's no difference in those who keep pushing agendas when they were flatly told that it wasn't within current restraints in place, even when they were given valid, factual reasons.

So while you may see those who defend the developers like that, many see you as what I just listed above, and therefor makes you no better and actually far worse.

First, the Dev gave NO indication as to the extent of Turbine's debate and consideration of this feature, let alone if they'd discussed specific benefits, so the advocates have the obligation and duty to mention the many benefits previously brought up and any additional ones that come up. And where specific detractions toward the idea have been mentioned a wide variety of perfectly feasible solutions have been put forth which may or may not have been discussed by Turbine; ultimately this can be helpful to them in reevaluating their decision.

Secondly, due to my firm belief (wrong as it may be) that the Devs and Turbine are not infallible, there is no reason to quit advocating for a feature until it is definitely stated by the company that "We will absolutely without-question never ever in a the lifetime of LoTRO have this feature, and if you continue to advocate for it you will be in violation of the TOS and banned from the forums and/or game".

[Lomeloth]

I'll concur. However:

A. If a doctor tells me I need to have a limb amputated, I'll get a second opinion.

B. A dentist or doctor is a "professional" in the sense that they have pursued a "rigorous course of study" and the majority of their work consists of making judgment calls based on their knowledge and experience. Frankly, there's no one in the gaming industry who fits that description. Game design is more art than science.

So, while I weight floon's opinion considerably higher on the scale than that of a random individual off the street, and higher than that of the average player, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to weight it higher than my own. I've probably been playing these games longer than he's been working on them, I've probably played more of them than he has, and based on his post, I believe he misunderstands my position on the subject, as he has proposed a mentoring system as an alternative (and a mentoring system barely addresses a small number of my concerns).

Now, I believe him when he says that no one is working on the feature and that there is no perceived need by Turbine for the feature. I'm simply trying to convince anyone who chooses to read this topic that there =should= be a perceived need for the feature.

-The levelling curve is too fast.
-Players constantly outlevel quest chains before completing them.
-Players constantly outlevel quest rewards before earning them.

Show me an option that addresses these core problems without unnecessarily burdening those players who do want to rush to the endgame, and I'll reconsider the need for an XP throttle. So far, no one has come up with a viable alternative.

You are missing the nuances of my post, while ignoring the specific point I addressed bluntly: There is room between respect for the opinion of a better-informed source and calling them gods. The tone in the post to which I responded was rather... astounding.

As for the nuances: Read my post again.

• I did say 'at the moment' not 'ever.'
• This scenario is rather closer to getting a filling than limb amputation (the feeling I get when reading some posts notwithstanding).
• I did say 'tend to believe' not 'believe unequivocally.'

Humans, by our nature, value our own opinions most... and mine is not the same as yours as to who I believe is more informed on the matter.

I've been driving cars for decades, but I don't believe that qualifies me as having an informed opinion on how to build one. I'll believe the enigineer who tells me that, no matter how badly I want a flux capacitor, I'm not going to get one - at least not this year.

As for coming up with a 'viable alternative' - that's not really necessary. That position assumes that the feature itself is mandatory... which is the logical fallacy of begging the question.

All of that said, I am still in favor of this feature being added when it rises high enough in the list... I just don't appreciate being told either I am unquestioningly in favor of it, or unquestioningly worship floon, with no middle ground acknowledged.

[Beldacar]

You are missing the nuances of my post, while ignoring the specific point I addressed bluntly: There is room between respect for the opinion of a better-informed source and calling them gods. The tone in the post to which I responded was rather... astounding.

As for the nuances: Read my post again.

• I did say 'at the moment' not 'ever.'
• This scenario is rather closer to getting a filling than limb amputation (the feeling I get when reading some posts notwithstanding).
• I did say 'tend to believe' not 'believe unequivocally.'

Humans, by our nature, value our own opinions most... and mine is not the same as yours as to who I believe is more informed on the matter.

I've been driving cars for decades, but I don't believe that qualifies me as having an informed opinion on how to build one. I'll believe the enigineer who tells me that, no matter how badly I want a flux capacitor, I'm not going to get one - at least not this year.

As for coming up with a 'viable alternative' - that's not really necessary. That position assumes that the feature itself is mandatory... which is the logical fallacy of begging the question.

All of that said, I am still in favor of this feature being added when it rises high enough in the list... I just don't appreciate being told either I am unquestioningly in favor of it, or unquestioningly worship floon, with no middle ground acknowledged.

And =I= have never accused you of that.

I was simply pointing out that there's a continuum of "expertise" and "listening to authority."

As for the car analogy, if several other companies' cars all have flux capacitors, you have every right to suggest adding a flux capacitor to your favorite model from your favorite manufacturer. And you have every right to tell that manufacturer that "Well, Toyota and Honda managed to do it. And while your car is my favorite, one of the few problems I have with it is that the flux really needs to be accumulated occasionally."

That's the closest analogy to this issue....

[Tiempko]

There is a fact of the matter as to whether there exists a configuration for an XP slider or toggle that has sufficiently high return on investment that exceeds that of other uses for the same resources. That fact is independent of Floon's opinion, my own opinion or anybody else's.

Whether a person knows the truth of the matter depends on the quality of the reasons provided.

It is perfectly legitimate to point out that there are some problems with the quality of reasons provided. Those issues, as well, are independent of any facts about the person providing it.

For example, the claim, "Very few people will use the feature and it will generate tons of support ticket costs" is a contradiction, no matter who says it.

A company that has been hostile to a style of play that then asks its own customers if they would prefer a feature favorable to the style of play is not going to get a useful result. As I said, it is like asking those people who have purchased a gas guzling SUV if they would prefer a smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicle.

The same is true of any conclusions drawn from forum representation in a game that has been hostile to a particular style of play.

Also, the legitimate question to ask is not, "Would you use this feature?" but "Would you benefit this feature?"

The percentage of potential customers who would value a particular feature is not a relevant metric either. What matters is the raw numbers.

It is not an accurate comparison to compare a feature with other options that require orders of magnitude more resources to accomplish, unless the payoff also is orders of magnitude larger.

The "cost" of adding such a feature is not accurately measured in terms of "tons of customer support cost". The actual cost is the cost of the least costly method of avoiding those tons of customer support costs. For example, an XP wallet that allows players to draw out unused XP at will should solve the problem. Instead of complaining about "tons of support costs", the proper discussion should be over the cost of building such an XP wallet. Referring to a greatest cost option is, to say the least, invalid, no matter who does it.

[Khafar]

Maybe I'll take the time to do an independent survey. There are a few sites out there that offer "free poll" and "free survey" type applications.

Feel free, but player-created polls are nearly worthless IMO: tiny sample sizes, major self-selection issues, leading or unbalanced questions, etc, etc. I've actually seen two different player polls running on the same forum (SWG before launch) at the same time, by advocates for two polar opposite positions. Both advocate's favored positions were "winning" by approximately 2:1 margins at the same time. And naturally, both pollsters were claiming their poll "proved" that their position was the one the game company should adopt .

What I'd really love to see is for Turbine to run a large-scale survey on what players want where players are required to trade off features against one another. They provide a list of 50 features people have asked for, assigning a "point cost" for each of them (ranging from 1 to 100). Maybe this particular feature rates a 3 or a 5, since it's not huge. Mentoring might be 25, mounted combat might be 50, SWG-style housing might be 80, that sort of thing.

Then let players spend a limited "budget" of 120 points on whatever they wish from that list. Some will pick a huge 100-point feature and a 20-point feature, and be done. Others will pick a 50-pointer, a couple in the 10-20 range, and a bunch of smaller ones they think would be nice. Give players a nice "reward" for participating in the survey, helping to maximize sample size. Like... 50% off all stable horse routes for a month. Or some really spectacular fireworks unavailable to anyone else. That sort of thing. Promote the survey on the launcher, and leave it open for 2 weeks.

It would be interesting to see what people pick when they have to make such judgements. It might also be educational, both in terms of what some of the relative costs are, and in terms of just what a modest percentage of the total feature points specified they can buy with their "budget".

Khafar

[Beldacar]

Feel free, but player-created polls are nearly worthless IMO: tiny sample sizes, major self-selection issues, leading or unbalanced questions, etc, etc. I've actually seen two different player polls running on the same forum (SWG before launch) at the same time, by advocates for two polar opposite positions. Both advocate's favored positions were "winning" by approximately 2:1 margins at the same time. And naturally, both pollsters were claiming their poll "proved" that their position was the one the game company should adopt .

What I'd really love to see is for Turbine to run a large-scale survey on what players want where players are required to trade off features against one another. They provide a list of 50 features people have asked for, assigning a "point cost" for each of them (ranging from 1 to 100). Maybe this particular feature rates a 3 or a 5, since it's not huge. Mentoring might be 25, mounted combat might be 50, SWG-style housing might be 80, that sort of thing.

Then let players spend a limited "budget" of 120 points on whatever they wish from that list. Some will pick a huge 100-point feature and a 20-point feature, and be done. Others will pick a 50-pointer, a couple in the 10-20 range, and a bunch of smaller ones they think would be nice. Give players a nice "reward" for participating in the survey, helping to maximize sample size. Like... 50% off all stable horse routes for a month. Or some really spectacular fireworks unavailable to anyone else. That sort of thing. Promote the survey on the launcher, and leave it open for 2 weeks.

It would be interesting to see what people pick when they have to make such judgements. It might also be educational, both in terms of what some of the relative costs are, and in terms of just what a modest percentage of the total feature points specified they can buy with their "budget".

Khafar

I'd love to see that kind of survey. Maybe Turbine can implement something like the in-game surveys SOE does for EQ2 (a link shows up on the summary screen you get when your character materializes in the world). But a link on the login screen would work as well, I guess (though I suspect players are far more likely to follow the link if it's done in-game *shrug*).

But yes, you're right about the issues with player-created surveys, especially about self-selected samples and such. That's why I'm reluctant to invest the time and effort to do one. It's been a couple of years since I've done anything marketing-related, as well, so I'm a bit rusty on the details.

Maybe if I get really bored over the weekend. We'll see.

[Celt_Ainvar]

You know For the people who going by one person view from Turbine'. Mybe you should look at a Theme Park. To understand how many parts Turbine might have. I can not say how many parts turbine has. What differnt types of work each person has.

But I can give you the Basic of Theme park which I do know. From the Start where you pay to park your car to buying tickets. To the shops and Restrants and to the Rides and shows. I was one person that work in Theme park. I was in a Glass shop Making Dragons out of Hot glowing glass. There was about 1,500 to 6,000 people that work at that park. Depending the time of year. I just posted the Basics.

The problem I had and other people had When I seid I work at a theme park. Everyone and there Grandma thinks you know everything about the Theme park. Questions would be. When will be out, Where will it be built, What is the next best ride. Then you get question like. Can this idea work can you suggest this or that. They think you have ties with that company.

My point is this what floon says could be just his own view. Like me when I work for a Theme park I was able get some info but not alot. and depending how many people work for Turbine. We are just hearing from one person that work for Turbine.

And Please let leave it at that and Keep floon a person that has his own views. Please stop with floon says this or that.

I rather have Turbine see the ideas we post then people going he seid she seid.

[DarkCntry]

You know For the people who going by one person view from Turbine'. Mybe you should look at a Theme Park. To understand how many parts Turbine might have. I can not say how many parts turbine has. What differnt types of work each person has.

But I can give you the Basic of Theme park which I do know. From the Start where you pay to park your car to buying tickets. To the shops and Restrants and to the Rides and shows. I was one person that work in Theme park. I was in a Glass shop Making Dragons out of Hot glowing glass. There was about 1,500 to 6,000 people that work at that park. Depending the time of year. I just posted the Basics.

The problem I had and other people had When I seid I work at a theme park. Everyone and there Grandma thinks you know everything about the Theme park. Questions would be. When will be out, Where will it be built, What is the next best ride. Then you get question like. Can this idea work can you suggest this or that. They think you have ties with that company.

My point is this what floon says could be just his own view. Like me when I work for a Theme park I was able get some info but not alot. and depending how many people work for Turbine. We are just hearing from one person that work for Turbine.

And Please let leave it at that and Keep floon a person that has his own views. Please stop with floon says this or that.

I rather have Turbine see the ideas we post then people going he seid she seid.

While I understand the analogy and can see how it could be applied here, I still believe you're comparing apples and oranges.

The difference between you and floon is that of status within the company. Floon being a department head will almost undoubtedly be sitting in on high-level meetings regarding the specifics of LOTRO. Now, this is where it's different from you in your analogy. A collection of the smaller parts in a theme park don't add up to the entire theme park's operation, meaning that a store selling merchandise does not a theme park make...in theory, no one part makes up a development team either, what does stand different is that a random employee from a random part of a theme park isn't going to be involved with the day-to-day activities of those in charge of theme park operations.

Now, if you were, say, the establishment's upper-management, then yes, your analogy would be fine here. Floon's position as a department head allows him access to information that is out of his department's scope, which allows him the ability to make judgment calls even if they do not fall into his job's title description.

[Tiempko]

What I'd really love to see is for Turbine to run a large-scale survey on what players want where players are required to trade off features against one another.

It would be interesting to see what people pick when they have to make such judgements. It might also be educational, both in terms of what some of the relative costs are, and in terms of just what a modest percentage of the total feature points specified they can buy with their "budget".

It may be interesting, but this type of survey has very little use from a marketing perspective - and could be dangerous. Actual customers are already doing what the company wants - buying the product. There is nothing more that the company can gain from them (unless the company wants to sell a new product to existing customers, such as an adventure pack).

The two surveys that provide useful information for MARKETING purposes are:

Exit surveys. "Why did you leave?" Leaving customers affect the bottom line. A company has good reason to want to reduce the number of leaving customers.

Competitor surveys. "Why are you buying this product from our competitor but not from us?" In other words, "What can we do to cause you to become a paying customer?" These types of changes also affect the bottom line, and as such are useful in making business decisions.

You don't need to survey existing customers to find out what they want. Your survey is going to tell you that your existing customers value the product as-is and want "more of the same" The question, "But what will keep you coming back and not leaving" is answered in the exit surveys.

[Tiempko]

If we are doing analogies, consider this:

"It would be stupid for us to put salt, sugar, pepper, and other seasonings on the table and have the customers season their own food. Tons of customers are going to season their food incorrectly - using too much salt or adding too much cream to their coffee. Then they are going to complain to us and expect us to fix it for them. Absolutely not. It would be foolish for us to trust customers to season their own food. Instead, we will determine the amount of seasoning to put on the food, and they will like it . . . or else."

Equally foolish would be the company that had adopted this policy then doing a survey of EXISTING customers.

"Are you satisfied with the amount of seasoning we put in our food?"

Of course they are. If they were not satisfied, they would not be here. The question to ask is not whether existing customers like the food. The question to ask is whether non-customers would become existing customers if they were free to determine how much salt, pepper, cream, sugar, catchup, or the like to put on the food.

[Celt_Ainvar]

Well Tiempko I am trying to point how differnt each department can be in a company. Even if they are head department or not. I pick theme park becuse that where I work. Each area was so differnt. It show how one Head department did not know about another one. I think Lord of the rings is the same way.

Software, Art, animation, hardware, Servers, networking.

I am looking at differnt areas.

I use the Theme park to make other see the differnce of each area. How many cooks going to tell a person that the rollercoaster to fast.

Am I the onlyone having posting problems haha. lotro messing up for a bit.

[Khafar]

Equally foolish would be the company that had adopted this policy then doing a survey of EXISTING customers.

The inherent assumption behind these comments is that "Turn XP Off" is so important to so many people that A) tons of people don't buy LOTRO because it doesn't have it, or B) tons of people have left LOTRO because it doesn't have it. I think both are highly unlikely. It simply isn't going to be a make-or-break sort of feature for the vast majority of people. If it were, we'd have seen tons of mentions of this issue in the regular "I'm leaving" threads people post, yet I've never seen it show up in those even once.

If neither A) or B) is true, then there's simply no reason to think that the people who want "Turn XP Off" is seriously underrepresented among LOTRO's players.

Khafar

[Khafar]

It may be interesting, but this type of survey has very little use from a marketing perspective...

If you believe that improving customer retention (something that's absolutely key to profitability in subscription-based online gaming) has "very little use"... I strongly disagree. Surveys of existing customers are very important.

Surveying non-customers certainly has value too, but they need to be careful with that - it's very easy to screw up (or at least diminish) the value that the game has to your loyal, existing customers by making changes driven by non-customers. One reason that adding PvP late to a PvE game never seems to do anything to help subscriptions long-term is that it simply doesn't attract more people than it loses. PvP fans are (for the most part) not going to be all that impressed with this PvP "wart" you've added to your game, and a non-trivial number of your PvE customers are going to be seriously pissed off (particularly if it starts resulting in changes to the PvE side of things). Not everything is as contentious as PvP, of course, but that Law of Unintended Consesquences can be hell.

Khafar

[henry316]

The inherent assumption behind these comments is that "Turn XP Off" is so important to so many people that A) tons of people don't buy LOTRO because it doesn't have it, or B) tons of people have left LOTRO because it doesn't have it. I think both are highly unlikely. It simply isn't going to be a make-or-break sort of feature for the vast majority of people. If it were, we'd have seen tons of mentions of this issue in the regular "I'm leaving" threads people post, yet I've never seen it show up in those even once.

If neither A) or B) is true, then there's simply no reason to think that the people who want "Turn XP Off" is seriously underrepresented among LOTRO's players.

Khafar

There is a third option that I know actually has cost Turbine money. Friends of mine have not bought MoM due to wanting to experience the massive amount of level 50 content in the game. Some are lifers, some pay monthy, but none of them have bought any of the expansions. And the primary reasons are A. "there is so much SoA content I want to do, why do I need MoM at this time?" and B. "Because of A., if I buy MoM it will trivialize SoA content."

So while they don't fit the customers who leave model, or the customers this might attract model, they are a clear third group that is lost revenue directly related to accelerated leveling.

[logothesia]

If you read the new article on the skirmish rewards, it's pretty apparent that the Curiosities vendor will sell class quest items. If that's true, then no one will run CD or Uru ever, on-level or post-level.

I still have no problems with you getting this feature, but you'd just be treading water. The game is moving forward, and you'd eventually be more unhappy with it than you are now. One day you'll be able to roll a 50 to start playing, and then no one will visit the old world ever.

I don't get why you fetishize a zone like the Shire. It's just a zone. You get the deeds, you complete the quests, you enjoy the view, and then you move on. It's a game, not a lifestyle. More than that, it's a group-oriented game. So to truly experience it, you need to be where everyone else is. And in a month everyone else will be 65.

Look, my favorite place to go mining tier 2 is North Chetwood, south of Nen Harn. No one, and I mean no one, ever goes out there except to kill turtles. It's quiet, peaceful, and a nice break from killing things. I enjoy that area at 60 more than I did at 22, because I don't have to fight frigging wolves and bears every three steps.

I think you can enjoy the more ephemeral aspects of a zone without being "on-level". Do you actually enjoy being badgered by green mobs when you're out and about?