Totally not cool.

[FajaSailors]

http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/0...s-SuperRewards

This is exactly the kind of thing I won't ever tolerate, for exactly the same reasons I'll never rent or buy a CD or DVD Sony has anything to do with. Good luck with this kind of thing Turbine, you'll be saying a quick goodbye to me as a customer if anything remotely resembling this junk shows up in this game.

[Nymphonic]

I'm at work so I can't use the link. What is the issue?

[tuor66]

This link is a little more informative and mentions that Turbine has taken some action while they investigate further. I would hope something like this never comes to LOTRO (the concept, not just the potential security risks).

http://www.massively.com/2010/04/13/fans-have-strong-reaction-to-dungeons-and-dragons-online-offer-w/

[Scirocco]

Here's the text of the post:

Zarrot writes
"In the next step for their Free 2 Play model, Turbine Entertainment, publisher of Dungeon and Dragons: Online, Lord of the Rings: Online and Asheron's Call, has partnered with notorious 'lead generation company' SuperRewards. Initial testing by forum users shows that just accessing the page without clicking on any offers sends the user's email and game login in clear text to SuperRewards. Reports of new spam and fresh malware infections on test systems are already being reported on the company's forums. Is the Zynga business model the future of internet gaming?"

[ericlewis]

Wow rofl turbine must be hurting for cash if they need to do this kind of bs.

[StarSeekerVDS]

If that ever comes to LOTRO I will, as the more diplomatic among us say, opt out.

To be less diplomatic and more honest about my thoughts on that pile of ignorance would surely get me banned.

[StarSeekerVDS]

And here's an even better point that someone on the DDO forums made. Not only tarnishing Turbine's reputation, but...

As for you telling us to be careful when we go to merchants that YOU sent us to, that's exactly the problem. You have lent your good name to those companies so people believe and trust them because of you. They don't check them or disbelieve them because they didn't get a blind email, they went where you, a company they trust sent them. You are therefore responsible for everything that these companies do in a very real way (maybe not legally, but certainly morally and from a public image standpoint).

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=242813

Thread is here. It's hella long.

[sir-rinthian]

The words "Epic Fail" come to mind...

[Sarmon]

Well These posts sure explained a lot for me with what has been going on with my e-mail recently. I also play DDO but just uninstalled it because of reading that what they did over there sold your e-mail to wow gold spam and phishing sites and my inbox and spam filter has exploded with these mails recently. Thanks Turbine just what I wanted Phishing and scamming courtesy of you. When you used to warn us about it now you sold us out. And since your DDO and LOTRO accounts are linked that means my entire account is at risk as well as my now spam flooded e-mail. This kinda thing should be illegal.

[Silverangel]

If that ever comes to LOTRO I will, as the more diplomatic among us say, opt out.

This is all you need to do. Like Tolero says in the DDO forum, this is just an alternate way of getting Turbine points.

[StarSeekerVDS]

Perhaps. But I mean I will opt out of LOTRO period.

By affiliating with a company of that sort, Turbine states that it 1. finds their business strategies acceptable and 2. considers the security of their users secondary to making money. I'm big on companies holding moral principles and try to avoid giving my business to those that do not. If this had come to LOTRO I would already be gone. Since this is happening with a game that has a rather obnoxious business model already and not LOTRO, which so far does not, I'm considering this a "second-to-last straw" rather than a "last straw".

It doesn't hurt that I have my account suspended already and have made no firm decision when or if I will return anyway. *shrug*

[TsarithArcher]

Okay, this is normally where I jump in and post a Wall O' Text in defense of Turbine and the things it does.

This, however, is not normal, nor is it one of those times.

Likewise, this would normally be where I would find a creative way to mock the first poster to use /Epic_Fail. Again, this is not one of those times.

I am at a complete loss of words and am absolutely confounded at Turbine's "Offer Wall".

Not many things would drive me running away from LOTRO, but introducing something similar certainly would.

Boo! Boo! Boo! Boo!

[tryingtosteal]

Yeah, I saw the slashdot article, read a few posts on the ddo forums just to enjoy the trainwreck turbine got themselves into. I was curious if anyone from lotro saw this and what they thought about it. Good to see this thread.

But I would be surprised if this type of *opportunity* came to lotro players in the next couple years.

The forums are so much more exciting than anything in game right now. Too bad...

[SixFootDwarf]

If I see even a hint of this I will cancel my subscription. No money of mine will go to a company with that kind of business ethics.

I will wait and see what they do, but they get one chance and one chance only.

[Warbeast21]

Hey turbine please read the first paragraph in your privacy policy


Here it is:

Turbine respects the privacy of its online visitors and users of its products and services. Turbine recognizes the importance of protecting certain information collected from users and has adopted this Privacy Policy that guides how Turbine gathers, stores, and uses information provided from users through the Turbine Sites and Services as described below.

Please respect our information and privacy

[Raath]

Can they screw DDO up anymore??

I was actually going to go back and play, but I checked out the forums, seen what they have done to the game, and quickly went the other direction.

And this was a few days ago....literally a day before they made this announcement.

I'm glad I didn't. But as a former player, this totally explains the recent influx of junk mail that mailbox.

Are you giving out former players emails, too???

I can't believe LOTRO and DDO are made by the same company.

[Forgotten_Legend]

i really hope that there are no Court Justices (Judges) playing LOTRO or DDO then. cause its happened before that a Judge's email was spammed so hard that it actually crashed a courthouse server. either the plaintiff or defendant instigated it, and suffered very severe consequences for interfering with the Justice system.

just something to keep in mind...

[Zarador]

Can they screw DDO up anymore??

I was actually going to go back and play, but I checked out the forums, seen what they have done to the game, and quickly went the other direction.

And this was a few days ago....literally a day before they made this announcement.

I'm glad I didn't. But as a former player, this totally explains the recent influx of junk mail that mailbox.

Are you giving out former players emails, too???

I can't believe LOTRO and DDO are made by the same company.

Perhaps I'm confused a bit here. The release of the information was attributed to using their "Wall of Rewards" or something to that effect. You had to actively participate in some online offers to gain points. Basically, a promotion gone horribly wrong. Grant it, I'm somewhat amazed that Turbine would lend their good name to such a service, let alone suggest that their customers use it for game rewards.

I've seen those offers for discounts, free meals and coupons before and always stayed away from them. Just give us all your personal information, sign up for another 30 offers, your almost there. No thank you.

Mythic had a bad week as well with the "Billing gone Wild" escapade.

[Raath]

Turbine bragged that they now had millions of DDO accounts and the revenue was up 500%.....

...and they do this?

Sorry, but this just reeks of greed.

Makes me wonder if DDO is really doing all that well...

[Raath]

Perhaps I'm confused a bit here. The release of the information was attributed to using their "Wall of Rewards" or something to that effect. You had to actively participate in some online offers to gain points. Basically, a promotion gone horribly wrong. Grant it, I'm somewhat amazed that Turbine would lend their good name to such a service, let alone suggest that their customers use it for game rewards.

I've seen those offers for discounts, free meals and coupons before and always stayed away from them. Just give us all your personal information, sign up for another 30 offers, your almost there. No thank you.

Mythic had a bad week as well with the "Billing gone Wild" escapade.

I hope this is the case.

[Zarador]

Turbine bragged that they now had millions of DDO accounts and the revenue was up 500%.....

...and they do this?

Sorry, but this just reeks of greed.

Depends how you view it I guess. Your target audience is looking for a F2P game, odds are they may be interested in trading some info and time for more free stuff. Things in life are seldom as "free" as they appear.

Again, it was a poorly planned move in my opinion, but enough people apparently jumped at the chance for more freebies. It's hard to scam someone who is not thinking that they got the better part of the deal.

[TsarithArcher]

Okay, I had a glass of 30 year old Vintage Port and smoked a Kretek and have settled down enough to comment on Turbines "Offer Wall" without being overly emotional about it.

WTH?!?!?

SERIOUSLY!!!

WTH?!?!?

Since I like Ordered Lists so much, let's break it down, shalt we?

The Pros

1. It's optional.
2. It's not an opt-out program, but opt-in.
3. Turbine gets some extra kick-back funds for participating.
4. Uhm, I was hoping to make it to 10, but I'm drawing a blank here.
5. Bullocks!

The Cons

1. It's a scam.
2. It's herding Turbine's customers to a scam.
3. Turbine is profiting off the scamming of their customers.
4. It is subjecting both Turbine and their Customers to a headache of epic proportions with Hacked Accounts.
5. Turbine next will be offering Pay-Day Loans and Check-Cashing Services.
6. After that, Phase 3 involves granting DDO Points for Players who deposit $1.2 Million Checks into their Personal Accounts and then send $600,000 back to a Lawyer with a PO Box in Nigeria.
7. To introduce DDO & LOTRO to the Russian Commonwealth, Turbine announces a partnership with the Russian Business Network.
8. Turbine has gone so Low-Rent that even Nigerian Princes are looking good right about now.
9. Turbine has now positioned themselves to be the foremost name in Flash-based Facebook games that will install Malware, steal your Login Credentials, and Spam all of your friends into oblivion, beating out Mob Wars and Farmville.
10. Jim Crowley, CEO of Turbine has been replaced with Kevin Trudeau (once Kevin is released from Prison after attempting to coerce a Federal Judge).

See where this is going?

Does Turbine really think that those who are unwilling to part with $10 a month are the kinds of people who will part with far more than that to subscribe to a dozen magazines subscriptions for the same benefit? If a person is playing a F2P and they aren't forking over dough in the Turbine Store, then they aren't going to be forking over dough to anyone else either. You can't get blood from a turnip!

Going F2P, although it was a risky but interesting move, invited all the wrong types to town and subsequently lowered Turbine's Real-Estate Values. However, getting in bed with known Scammers, Crooks and Criminals isn't going to raise funds, nor help your Customers, nor raise Real-Estate Values either. It's going to do the opposite!

I frequently chastise, criticize, and shame those who openly say that someone needs to get fired at Turbine for the in-game choices they make. Well, this is one time when I would not only refrain from doing such, but would openly agree. Matter of fact, they would need to be publicly flogged too in order to restore my faith in Turbine.

Was all of this unemotional and rational enough?

Sorry, I'm still rabid over this issue and need another glass of Port and another Kretek.

[Zarador]

Okay, I had a glass of 30 year old Vintage Port and smoked a Kretek and have settled down enough to comment on Turbines "Offer Wall" without being overly emotional about it.

WTH?!?!?

SERIOUSLY!!!

WTH?!?!?

Since I like Ordered Lists so much, let's break it down, shalt we?

The Pros

1. It's optional.
2. It's not an opt-out program, but opt-in.
3. Turbine gets some extra kick-back funds for participating.
4. Uhm, I was hoping to make it to 10, but I'm drawing a blank here.
5. Bullocks!

The Cons

1. It's a scam.
2. It's herding Turbine's customers to a scam.
3. Turbine is profiting off the scamming of their customers.
4. It is subjecting both Turbine and their Customers to a headache of epic proportions with Hacked Accounts.
5. Turbine next will be offering Pay-Day Loans and Check-Cashing Services.
6. After that, Phase 3 involves granting DDO Points for Players who deposit $1.2 Million Checks into their Personal Accounts and then send $600,000 back to a Lawyer with a PO Box in Nigeria.
7. To introduce DDO & LOTRO to the Russian Commonwealth, Turbine announces a partnership with the Russian Business Network.
8. Turbine has gone so Low-Rent that even Nigerian Princes are looking good right about now.
9. Turbine has now positioned themselves to be the foremost name in Flash-based Facebook games that will install Malware, steal your Login Credentials, and Spam all of your friends into oblivion, beating out Mob Wars and Farmville.
10. Jim Crowley, CEO of Turbine has been replaced with Kevin Trudeau (once Kevin is released from Prison after attempting to coerce a Federal Judge).

See where this is going?

Does Turbine really think that those who are unwilling to part with $10 a month are the kinds of people who will part with far more than that to subscribe to a dozen magazines subscriptions for the same benefit? If a person is playing a F2P and they aren't forking over dough in the Turbine Store, then they aren't going to be forking over dough to anyone else either. You can't get blood from a turnip!

Going F2P, although it was a risky but interesting move, invited all the wrong types to town and subsequently lowered Turbine's Real-Estate Values. However, getting in bed with known Scammers, Crooks and Criminals isn't going to raise funds, nor help your Customers, nor raise Real-Estate Values either, it's going to do the opposite!

I frequently chastise, criticize, and shame those who openly say that someone needs to get fired at Turbine for the in-game choices they make. Well, this is one time when I would not only refrain from doing such, but would openly agree. Matter of fact, they would need to be publicly flogged too in order to restore my faith in Turbine.

Was all of this unemotional and rational enough?

Sorry, I'm still rabid over this issue and need another glass of Port and another Kretek.

Had to +1 Rep on that post, someone gets it!

Quite a few threads and blogs have indicated that F2P players often wind up spending far more for F2P than they would on a regular subscription. They sign up thinking they got the better deal and outsmarted the company.

Does this not sound like the person who would be part of a 30 part "survey" where they are just dieing to pay you for your valuable opinion? Good, great job, one last survey question! Would you like to pay for the magazines or the CD offer by Visa or Amex?

[Rachir]

MMM Kretek !!

[TsarithArcher]

MMM Kretek !!

Now if I can find a way to mix the delightful taste of Bacon with the Cloves in my Kreteks, I'd be a very happy man!

Back on to the sensitive Topic at hand...

I just read 36 pages about this Scam Wall on the DDO Forums.

Get More FREE Turbine Points With New Offer Wall

Offer Wall Update - 4/13/2010

It is nice to know that our DDO brethren are not only an incredulous and internet savvy lot, but they aren't taking this sitting down either, and it has gone over like a lead balloon.

Which is good news as if it is a failure in DDO it will just about ensure that it will not come to LOTRO either Soon™ or In the Future™, but relegated permenantly to the category of NOW!™ (meaning, in Sapience Time, is never going to happen).

Everyone makes mistakes, and occasionally people we trust make big mistakes too. Turbine has certainly made their fair share of mistakes in the past, and although this one isn't as costly of a mistake as some of their past ones were, it is probably the lamest one they've made to date. I'm sure they'll make plenty of mistakes in the future too, but hopefully they will learn from this one so they won't make a similar mistake to this one ever again. (So far, to give Turbine some credit, they have never made the same Epic Fail twice...knock on wood.)

You know, I can at least empathize to an extent. I have this new boss who has no background in the Tech sector, has a degree in Business Administration and a degree in Philosophy (not that I should be the one pointing that out, working in IT myself with a Bachelor's in Anthropology and another in Classical French Alchemy). He's a perfectly nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue when he jumps on the same bandwagon World+Dog is on. Since Facebook is trendy, he insists that I develop a Facebook presence for our business and decommission our website! Since Twitter is trendy, he insists that I maintain a Twitter feed for our business. Rather than maintain a VPN, he'd rather us use Google Docs for our sensitive Documents, never mind that this means anyone doing a Google Search can view the contents, because Google Docs is hip! Since iPhones are trendy, he insists I cancel my Contract with Sprint (and eat all the penalties) and get an iPhone on AT&T only to have him turn around a week later and decide that iPhones are so yesterday and that I need to cancel my new Contract with AT&T (again, eating all the penalty fees) and get an Android Smartphone on Verizon. Rather than perform my SystemAdmin duties, he'd rather have me developing iPad Apps (since all of our Programming Staff is too busy developing iPhone Apps) that we can sell to our Customers so they can pay to do with their iPad what they already can with a browser for free, just because the iPad is the "future" according to the trendy! Basically, dealing with my boss is a never-ending joke of being a lemming jumping off one cliff after another just because that is what everyone else is doing. Apparently, working at Turbine doesn't sound much different.