Weaver need a range slow

[KillGore81]

You can pot out of a hunter's ranged slow.

[Jamers]

Sorry Tip, but I think spiders are more than powerful enough.

[Tinluen]

Exactly! That starts the DR chain as well. Hunter hits you with ROT, pot. Hunter hits you with fear, no worries one drop of damage and you are ready to go. Deperate hunter gets off that stun... well again any damage and you are good to go.. if not wait three seconds as the DR timer continues to count down.

NO to the OP's request. Move along... nothing to see here. Troll xrossing.

Tydalmir

[Morihei]

Wrong -- Defilers also have a ranged slow. Just because fewer classes have a slow doesn't mean creepside is short of slows. See below.

I appologize, I was tired when I mentioned only BAs. Defilers have a ranged slow as well. But you are incorrect on the shortage. see below.

My apologies, i meant to put slows and not CC. And reavers are immune to every form of CC except one which means they are IMMUNE to all the CC I was refering to. I never said they are immune to CJs which is far less common to happen to a reaver than a freep.

I understood what you ment before, but I see Reavers getting CJd as often as Champs.

My point stands. Not all freeps carry a pocket class that has an effective ranged slow either. I don't think you realize what it means to have a shortage. Pretend EVERY creep class had a ranged slow and EVERY freep class has two ranged slows. No matter if you solo'd or grouped, you'd always have a ranged slow -- but because freeps have twice as many ranged slows, that in no way shape or form means creeps have a shortage of slows because freeps have more.

Yes, if your basic example was true then there would be no shortage, but it's not true so your point is flawed as probability of coming across at least 1 of the 4 freep classes is higher then 1 of the 2 creep classes

[timmyloo22546]

Yes, if your basic example was true then there would be no shortage, but it's not true so your point is flawed as probability of coming across at least 1 of the 4 freep classes is higher then 1 of the 2 creep classes

Pretty much any group of creeps I encounter they always have a ranged slow when necessary. It doesn't matter if 1 class has the ranged slow or 5 classes have the ranged slow, I am just going by my experience from playing and how often I encounter creep groups with an effective ranged slow.

Yesterday I was on my RK(lvl 60) and running around with a hunter. We ran into 7 creeps by DG slug pits: 3 BAs, 2 wargs, 2 WLs. Now, it wouldn't of mattered (as far as keeping both of us slowed) if 6 were wargs and 1 was a BA, having 1 BA to slow a target would of been plenty to keep us both from escaping.

[Thorandril]

You can pot out of a hunter's ranged slow.

creep wound pot removes low cut and strength stance quick shot slows, not just the 1.

[Morihei]

Pretty much any group of creeps I encounter they always have a ranged slow when necessary. It doesn't matter if 1 class has the ranged slow or 5 classes have the ranged slow, I am just going by my experience from playing and how often I encounter creep groups with an effective ranged slow.

I can understand this to be your experience, but my experience differs, as I prefer small group on small group fights over 1v1 or RvR, I quite often find myself to be the only ranged creep in the group.

Yesterday I was on my RK(lvl 60) and running around with a hunter. We ran into 7 creeps by DG slug pits: 3 BAs, 2 wargs, 2 WLs. Now, it wouldn't of mattered (as far as keeping both of us slowed) if 6 were wargs and 1 was a BA, having 1 BA to slow a target would of been plenty to keep us both from escaping.

Yeah... this is a bad example if I ever seen one... no matter which side the numbers are on 7vs2 is a slaughter.

[Morihei]

creep wound pot removes low cut and strength stance quick shot slows, not just the 1.

yes a wound pot can remove the hunter slow because the pot will only remove the first effect applied (which might not be the slow), the pots have a 30sec CD, the hunter SS quick shot doesnt have a CD so it could be reaplied as fast as it was removed. But hey if ALL slows could be removable using a pot I wouldnt complain.

[timmyloo22546]

I can understand this to be your experience, but my experience differs, as I prefer small group on small group fights over 1v1 or RvR, I quite often find myself to be the only ranged creep in the group.



Yeah... this is a bad example if I ever seen one... no matter which side the numbers are on 7vs2 is a slaughter.

By only ranged creep do you mean spider or BA? If BA, well you at least have a ranged slow which should be enough. And if spider, hopefully you are R6 and have WtE and the mez, which can definately make up for the lack of ranged slow imo. Sometimes spider >> BA in a small group despite the absence of the ranged slow (which I hope people agree that this means spiders shouldn't have a ranged slow).

Actually, we won that fight. It was mostly blues and maybe 1 sig and 1 green, anywhere from R0-R6. We killed 6 (1 BA was rezzed) and 2 managed to flee. Anything they could do wrong, they did wrong (I think because they noticed it was 7 vs 2, it should of been an easy slaughter and forgot how to play their classes). They definately learned the next time we saw them by HH and wrecked us. My point was tho...even if I started running, a warg could of simply sprinted to catch me, or the BA could of hindered me as the wargs slowed the hunter, even if it was 3 creeps instead of 7. In many situations, groups can do fine without a ranged slow--although I could understand if a LM dropped tar and there wasn't a ranged slow on creepside. But thats the thing about Lotro PvP, different sides have different advantages -- neither is identical or completely superior. They even out fairly well, imo.

[Morihei]

By only ranged creep do you mean spider or BA? If BA, well you at least have a ranged slow which should be enough. And if spider, hopefully you are R6 and have WtE and the mez, which can definately make up for the lack of ranged slow imo. Sometimes spider >> BA in a small group despite the absence of the ranged slow (which I hope people agree that this means spiders shouldn't have a ranged slow).

Actually, we won that fight. It was mostly blues and maybe 1 sig and 1 green, anywhere from R0-R6. We killed 6 (1 BA was rezzed) and 2 managed to flee. Anything they could do wrong, they did wrong (I think because they noticed it was 7 vs 2, it should of been an easy slaughter and forgot how to play their classes). They definately learned the next time we saw them by HH and wrecked us. My point was tho...even if I started running, a warg could of simply sprinted to catch me, or the BA could of hindered me as the wargs slowed the hunter, even if it was 3 creeps instead of 7. In many situations, groups can do fine without a ranged slow--although I could understand if a LM dropped tar and there wasn't a ranged slow on creepside. But thats the thing about Lotro PvP, different sides have different advantages -- neither is identical or completely superior. They even out fairly well, imo.

Sorry I didnt clarify, I mostly play my Weaver now and saddly only R4

WtE is a good slow, great in Kite or Flight, but not so good if thier in front of you running away. As for the mez it can be useful until they pop a pot, or if DR is in effect

Heh and to winning the first match of 2vs7 gratz! they had a dumb-a** moment, been there myself.

IMO they balance pretty well in a RvR situation, but not in 1v1 and small group. Don't get me wrong, group makeup has alot to do with it, but you dont alway have a say in who your Kin/tribe are gonna play. I'm sure if my Tribe had a choice I would still be playing my defiler lol.

Freeps are very diverce so almost any class in the group compliment eachother. Creeps... well we got WL Rez that is an OP skill right there.

[EmanonCireneg2]

Weaver are CC classe and more range classe than melee. All ranged freeps classe have a ranged slow. I dont understand why weaver dont have one. There could be a choice to make betwin root or slow in traits line or somthing. Put induction on the skill but weaver need it. Spider are the most squishy classe and have poor dps, my auto attack melee is 80 dmg... and i have 3 dmg corruption traits. Root are alwes broken even with stealweave web. It could be usefull if it could be hard to break like the rain of thorn of the hunter ( wich is not a CC but a DPS classe remember )

Im sur some will not agree with me and some will but i had to trow that on the forum its been a long time i was thinking about that and now i say it

Weaver are fun to play but i dont like to see all classe around having a CC skill that as a CC classe i should have ..

Wiht all that Diminishing return and pots, root and mez are not usefull as a slow. Its might be not so bad for LM cause they have a lot more and instant cast without needing to face target, but for weaver thats not the case.

Absolutely Weavers Need A Slow. WTE Is Technically A Slow, And The AoE Insta-Cast Can Make It Very Good In Some Situations. Although It Gives Players A 50% Movement Speed, The Max Duration Of It Is 10 Seconds. Weavers Are Definetly Not A DPS Class And Are Supposed To Play A Similar Role To A Lore Master. A Lore Master Beats A Spider In Just About Every Category. Amount Of CC, DPS, CD's, SI, And Their Slow Lasts For 30 Seconds, With A DoT, And Is Un-Pottable. It Has Around A 5 Second CD Or Less, And Crits Over 1K. So, Adding A Slow To Lethal Kiss And Maybe An Induction Would Be Completely Balanced. Lethal Kiss Is Not A Very Good Skill In Most Situations. The Only Time I Use It Is In A Raid Setting, When I'm Trying To DPS A Called Target. Since It's Common Damage And You Have To Stand Still, It Can Put You In A Vulnerable Position.


Adding An Induction To Lethal Kiss Along With A Slow Would Be Very Similar To A Lore Master's Burning Embers, Not Over Powered.

[Anonymous32]

If they get a 15% morale nerf they can have a slow on a that lasts for 10s on a 30s cd.

[Morihei]

If they get a 15% morale nerf they can have a slow on a that lasts for 10s on a 30s cd.

thanks for the input... or something.

FYI as creeps go weavers are the squishy ones. also creeps have higher health to counter balance the freep dps.

[Anonymous32]

I know they are but if you give them a ranged slow melee classes would be even more gimped against them. As it stands weavers are god against most melee classes the implementation of a ranged slow would only make this advantage even greater. To counter balance they would need a morale reduction.

thats the problem with creeps they want want want but they refuse to give anything up for their demands. This is why we have the unbalanced 10k defiler, *** pwning conjunction owning wargs and pwnface reaver ettenmoors of today.

[timmyloo22546]

Sorry I didnt clarify, I mostly play my Weaver now and saddly only R4

WtE is a good slow, great in Kite or Flight, but not so good if thier in front of you running away. As for the mez it can be useful until they pop a pot, or if DR is in effect

IMO they balance pretty well in a RvR situation, but not in 1v1 and small group. Don't get me wrong, group makeup has alot to do with it, but you dont alway have a say in who your Kin/tribe are gonna play. I'm sure if my Tribe had a choice I would still be playing my defiler lol.

Freeps are very diverce so almost any class in the group compliment eachother. Creeps... well we got WL Rez that is an OP skill right there.

Imo, I thought weavers were one of the best soloers and at r9+ they bring a huge amount to small groups. But none of this seems to matter with this discussion anymore.

The main reason for a slow it still sounds like is because "hey this target is running" so lets look at something for a sec...

If a freep is running - a BA has a ranged slow, wargs have sprint (can be on a 5m cooldown), reavers have charge (cuz if a freep is running it makes sense the reaver can drop combat), Defilers have the ranged slow which isn't the greatest but can be just enough sometimes for this situation. So even tho 2 classes have a ranged slow on creepside, 4 of the 6 classes have a means of catching them and putting a slow on. Will there still be times when freeps get away? yes. But there are just as many times when creeps get away in my experience as well.

[ti-pere3]

Adding An Induction To Lethal Kiss Along With A Slow Would Be Very Similar To A Lore Master's Burning Embers, Not Over Powered.

I like that, i dont remember what is the % of this slow but i think it last 30 sec. This is preaty strong, lets the big skill to the freeps and juste say we could have a -20% for 20 sec on Letal kiss with induction, that could be good.


And buy the way, creeps could have a legendary trait line, instead of 3 like freeps, they could have at least one.

And i know im off topic on that but a mail box would be veary appreciate! lol should make a nother tread for that.

[Morihei]

Imo, I thought weavers were one of the best soloers and at r9+ they bring a huge amount to small groups. But none of this seems to matter with this discussion anymore.

The main reason for a slow it still sounds like is because "hey this target is running" so lets look at something for a sec...

If a freep is running - a BA has a ranged slow, wargs have sprint (can be on a 5m cooldown), reavers have charge (cuz if a freep is running it makes sense the reaver can drop combat), Defilers have the ranged slow which isn't the greatest but can be just enough sometimes for this situation. So even tho 2 classes have a ranged slow on creepside, 4 of the 6 classes have a means of catching them and putting a slow on. Will there still be times when freeps get away? yes. But there are just as many times when creeps get away in my experience as well.

Your right, in many situations freeps and creeps will get away. It doesnt change the fact that 4 of 6 creeps can catch and/or put a slow on compared to 8 of 9 freeps can catch and/or put a slow on.

The point of this thread is not "hey this target is running", as I understand it Tiperes first language isn't english, so he might not use the proper wording. Post would have been better named "Weavers should have a ranged slow".

Weavers being THE CC class of creeps don't have one of the basics of CC. WtE is mostly based as a defensive skill, but can be used to kite through in a fight much like LMs tar, but that's it, they dont have any other slows.

[Perfectlotus]

Seems like this thread got unnesesarily long just because theres a difference between NEED and WANT.

Personally I would WANT a ranged slow instead of a Root. Why? For the simple fact our own skill work against us. A ranged slow would work so much better togheter with the rest we have in our assortment. Having more things to play with the traits would also be fun, make for more flexible class setups.

But do we NEED it? Nope.

/Silkdawn

[ti-pere3]

Thats true, the title of this tread could be change they dont NEED but would be welcome. And yea enlgish is not my first language, sorry if i cant make my self understand like i would like too.

Thx for people who give they opinioin without geting mad even if they agree or not.

[timmyloo22546]

Thats true, the title of this tread could be change they dont NEED but would be welcome. And yea enlgish is not my first language, sorry if i cant make my self understand like i would like too.

Thx for people who give they opinioin without geting mad even if they agree or not.

Even if you changed the title, I would still disagree with giving weavers a ranged slow. 1. They don't NEED it (which we all agree on). 2. I would not welcome the ranged slow -- and I am not alone with that opinion. 3. It would only make them that much more powerful in a 1vs1 (this is where i think weavers are asking for ezmode comes into play) -- and all the weavers who want the ranged slow seem to ignore that point.

I'd personally change the title to "I play a weaver, here is an ezmode suggestion i'd like to see implemented"

Edit:

Weavers being THE CC class of creeps don't have one of the basics of CC. WtE is mostly based as a defensive skill, but can be used to kite through in a fight much like LMs tar, but that's it, they dont have any other slows.

I wouldn't go as far to say slows are a true form of CC. If you are considering slows the basics of a CC, they do have WtE which is an amazing offensive skill as well -- I never understood why spiders seem to under rate that skill. Is that how you are suppose to argue when you would like to have overpowered skills? Say all your skills are ****** even tho they really aren't?

[NYSEguy1970]

Even if you changed the title, I would still disagree with giving weavers a ranged slow. 1. They don't NEED it (which we all agree on). 2. I would not welcome the ranged slow -- and I am not alone with that opinion. 3. It would only make them that much more powerful in a 1vs1 (this is where i think weavers are asking for ezmode comes into play) -- and all the weavers who want the ranged slow seem to ignore that point.

I'd personally change the title to "I play a weaver, here is an ezmode suggestion i'd like to see implemented"

Edit:

I wouldn't go as far to say slows are a true form of CC. If you are considering slows the basics of a CC, they do have WtE which is an amazing offensive skill as well -- I never understood why spiders seem to under rate that skill. Is that how you are suppose to argue when you would like to have overpowered skills? Say all your skills are ****** even tho they really aren't?

Some would say that slows are the most powerful form of CC because many slows can be applied at range, spammed, don't break on damage, last much longer than a typical root/mez/stun, and may be harder to dispel.

This may be outdated a bit, but here is a summary I found of freep 'snares' or slows as well as overall CC in general

http://www.dyfrin.com/lotro/freepcc.htm

and creep as well

http://www.dyfrin.com/lotro/creepcc.htm


all I can say is that the difference between the number of snares, magnitude of the snares, and duration of the snares is significant.

It would seem to support an addition to a creepside enhancement to that front, and giving a ranged snare to the cc class of creeps would also make logical sense....from a faction standpoint. On a class specific standpoint, i understand it gets much trickier.

So, lets start with would it be fair for a single target ranged snare, say of somewhere between 20-30% to be added to creepside be a fair consideration?

Then what class should get it

Then how should it look (which would be highly dependent on what creep class got the ranged snare)

[Morihei]

Even if you changed the title, I would still disagree with giving weavers a ranged slow. 1. They don't NEED it (which we all agree on). 2. I would not welcome the ranged slow -- and I am not alone with that opinion. 3. It would only make them that much more powerful in a 1vs1 (this is where i think weavers are asking for ezmode comes into play) -- and all the weavers who want the ranged slow seem to ignore that point.

Of course you would disagree. thats what you do. 1. your focused on the Need, Hunters didnt Need a mez, but got one anyways, Freeps didnt need another glass cannon, but got one anyways. 2. I would welcome the ranged slow -- and I'm not alone with that opinion. 3. It wouldnt change 1v1 much except that weavers could range slow against ranged opponents that can already slow them.

I'd personally change the title to "I play a weaver, here is an ezmode suggestion i'd like to see implemented"

And youd still have it titled wrong, it should be "I play a weaver, here is a suggestion to be almost as ezmode as a LM".

I wouldn't go as far to say slows are a true form of CC. If you are considering slows the basics of a CC, they do have WtE which is an amazing offensive skill as well -- I never understood why spiders seem to under rate that skill. Is that how you are suppose to argue when you would like to have overpowered skills? Say all your skills are ****** even tho they really aren't?

Any skill or ability that inhibits or removes control from a player is crowd control. and if you had even bothered to comprehend anything written previous, No One disputed WtE being a powerful offensive skill, is that how you make an argument, by claiming everyone is saying something their not. Note, no one asked for an OP skill, just a ranged slow for the ranged CC class.

Simple fact is from day 1 Freeps have had superior CC in every way and any mention of adding any thing to creeps or buffing something they already have sends forum trolls into a frenzie.

[timmyloo22546]

yada yada yada

I expect things to be semi-balance. I don't expect turbine to balance skills/classes based off of the worst people playing the class and the best people being their opponents.

[mikeakarobinhood]

It wouldnt change 1v1 much except that weavers could range slow against ranged opponents that can already slow them.

lol..........

[oopsies]

The single most overpowered creep class in 1v1 is asking for more...

l2p OP