Weaver need a range slow

[Jamers]

Next book creeps are going to need everything they can get

See, I'm not so sure about that. Unless nerfs are coming (possible), I don't think freeps will gain any appreciable edge in the next update.

[BrotherGab]

See, I'm not so sure about that. Unless nerfs are coming (possible), I don't think freeps will gain any appreciable edge in the next update.

New freep rad pvp armour=more numbers
Nerf to creep morale=less ez mode flippers on creepside.

[Fladrif]

Weavers needing a ranged slow is one of the dumbest ideas iv heard in a long while


Im sorry your, what did i see rank 10?


Learn to play your weaver maybe

[Thorandril]

Sorry but I wish my spider could hit for 3k like my champ. 2k is more often, my champ crits plenty. Or have mass AoE's.

Don't compare classes, there are NO mirror classes in LOTRO. If you want them, go to Warhammer.

Dev crits on skills are so relevant to class discussion! HAHA. Joke-post, move on.

[ti-pere3]

I have a lot of respect for Bashel and Luc, i respect your opinion and i understand that yes the weaver is not a underpower classe, but i dont think it is overpower.

Im surpise to see that a weaver can haver more armor than a champs, cause im sur the weaver is the creeps that have less armour in all creep classe. However, the champs DPS is way stronger than the weaver do. And the champs have an AOE stunt, hmm i think he got 2 and one of them can AOE stunt for 10 sec! Instant cast. Thats an amzing skill, il trade my WTE for that anny time.
Most of the champs run in fervour but IMO this is not good agains weaver.

Anny way this is not a tread for weaver agains champion, i know some champs i cannot beat 1vs1 and some that cannot beat me and they think the weaver is OP.

See i have trouble 1 vs 1 the RK but i never said they was the should be nerf, im trying some defferent build and tactic to fight them, its chalenging to fight a RK with a weaver. Some classe are bether agains some other and you alwes have an enemy that will give more difficulity. For me its the RK, LM and mini. Certain guardian can be a pain too, they hit like a truck and have a lot of survavibility and sprint, SNARE .. lol

Anny way im not asking here for an OP skill, but i dont mind if the weaver stay like it is right now, its good classe as it is right now. I apreciate all the good opinion that was positive or agains that idea.

But i still think that as a CC and DOT classe like the describe about weaver is saying, the Root could be more hard to break and or changing WTE like Tar and give a ranged slow. AT HIGHT RANK, yes, more ranked is a creep, more stronger he should be. And freeps to should get somthing from ranking.

EDIT: i may be rong from creating this post and im sry about it, i idnt want to make people geting mad and i wasent mad when i created it, maybe the title is not well appropriate, it is juste a subject i wanted to talk about. Some people are saying bad things and are insulting me, well im not gonna insulte you anny way, thats not my goal.

[striker383]

I find it hilarrious that a LM with a 2s induction 30s slow that can have up to a 35s bleed if the LM is smart is saying this is a dumb idea... personally at this point id take the same cd as the lm.. make it 2.5s induction and only -20% run speed for 30s on my spider... and id my my wte a 1s induction for that other slow

Edit: Heya Evilspinnre long time no see

[Jamers]

EDIT: i may be rong from creating this post and im sry about it, i idnt want to make people geting mad and i wasent mad when i created it, maybe the title is not well appropriate, it is juste a subject i wanted to talk about. Some people are saying bad things and are insulting me, well im not gonna insulte you anny way, thats not my goal.

Don't apologize for the thread, Tip. This is a place to discuss ideas, after all! I just simply don't agree with you on this one, but my opinion doesn't count for more than that of anyone else!

/salute

[BrotherGab]

Weavers needing a ranged slow is one of the dumbest ideas iv heard in a long while


Im sorry your, what did i see rank 10?


Learn to play your weaver maybe

I'd like to see you say that to me after fighting me solo.

I fail to see how we cannot at least get something worthwile at rank ELEVEN. Yes the huge influx of weavers will ranged slows will imbalance the moors! LoL.

[Brongdha]

I don't get it. Why do the stupid threads get tons of replies, yet the well-reasoned threads with good ideas only get a few replies?

[oopsies]

I don't get it. Why do the stupid threads get tons of replies, yet the well-reasoned threads with good ideas only get a few replies?

It's hard to troll a solid idea.

[Viloxus]

I find it hilarrious that a LM with a 2s induction 30s slow that can have up to a 35s bleed if the LM is smart is saying this is a dumb idea... personally at this point id take the same cd as the lm.. make it 2.5s induction and only -20% run speed for 30s on my spider... and id my my wte a 1s induction for that other slow

Edit: Heya Evilspinnre long time no see

i'm sure every LM would agree with you provided they could have a +10% in/out combat runspeed.

[thisisanewname]

the idea of having a ranged slow is interesting to me. theres allot of cases where it would come in handy but could also make the class very op. it would have to add some kind of induction to the skill otherwise it would be way to powerful in a 1v1 having 2 instant cast slows though a burning embers like(though not able to crit for 1500+) slow seems good to me since lm's have that along with more then double our cc both single and aoe.

also for the whole spiders aren't squishy cuz they have more armor b/p/e then champs is a total bs argument all creeps have higher defensive stats to make up for the difference in dps that freeps do.how many 65 freeps have been 1 shotted by a creep vs how many creeps have been 1 shotted by a freep im willing to bet its more then 1000 creeps 1 shot for every 1 freep that was 1 shot(and i really doubt it has EVER happened to a 65 freep unless they had no traits and were totally naked and got hit by a fluke dev crit vt.freeps have the better dps so creeps have the defence to try to balance things . i would gladly trade my spiders defensive stats with a lm's if i could also get my lm's dps and aoe cc/damage ability. in fact i wouldn't mind actually having the dps of my lv 40 champ since his normal attacks do more damage then my spiders dev crits

[Jamers]

in fact i wouldn't mind actually having the dps of my lv 40 champ since his normal attacks do more damage then my spiders dev crits

We do very nice DPS for a 'non-DPS' class. Try traiting for some damage. Tainted Kiss is incredibly powerful.

[iolio1]

Squishy? You guys have got to be kidding. I've seen this argument thrown around quite a bit, and I'm not sure what predicates it. Because we look squishy?

Let me throw around some numbers for everyone to think upon.

My Weaver has 4,705 Armour rating with the Armour Boost trait.

Block...5%
Evade...8%
Parry...6.7% (With the rank 5 Racial trait)
Total...19.7%

4.7% Critical Protection across the board with the Critical Protection Boost 2 trait.

And oh yeah, I have just over 6,000 morale with a DPS build. If I go for full morale, like many do?
7,311 Morale.

My 65 Champion with full Radiance gear? A heavy armour class?

I have 4,301 Armour. That's right, Weavers have MORE ARMOUR THAN A HEAVY FREEP.

Oh, and I have zero BPE in my Damage stance, Fervour. If I drop out of Fervour or use CDs to gain PE (I can't gain Block unless I use a shield, which severely hampers my DPS)...
Parry...9.5%
Evade...8.5%
Total...18%

And my Critical Defenses? 0 across the board.

So let's break it down. Weavers have BETTER Armour, BETTER avoidances, BETTER crit defenses, and MORE morale than a Heavy Armored freep who HAS to be in melee range.

Give me a break guys. We have it so amazingly great right now. I'm shocked that any ranked spider is complaining.

QFT

Every class can say they 'want' a certain skill. Weavers don't 'need' a ranged slow

[Fladrif]

i'm sure every LM would agree with you provided they could have a +10% in/out combat runspeed.

exactly - That and WTE are huge advantages for weavers

[GloinBlingBling]

STOP THE INSANITY. how about ranged fm's for freeps in return? or maybe a boost to incombat run speed to those freeps without one. Go away you OP EZ moders.

[GloinBlingBling]

Or Maybe All Freeps Should Have A Bpe Value Regardless Of Class.

[Thane9]

I'd bet he knows the champ a lot better that I do, I run raids on my champ, and look for 1v1's pretty much it. But I know the weaver class inside out. I doubt Bashel knows more about it that me.

He likely does, and I'd certainly put his understanding of the weaver class at the top of the Landy scale. A server that has historically had very strong weavers. Don't let his displayed rank decieve you. He was one of Landy's highest ranked Weavers before deleting his toon. This is his second time through the ranks.

Regardless. I can see absolutely zero reason for the weaver to be considered squishy enough to merit a ranged snare. There's just no real reason for it.

Weavers can do damage and cc from range. That more than makes up for any relative squishyness.

There isn't a better kiting class on EITHER side of the fence. Nor is there a better overall support class creepside.

[NYSEguy1970]

He likely does, and I'd certainly put his understanding of the weaver class at the top of the Landy scale. A server that has historically had very strong weavers. Don't let his displayed rank decieve you. He was one of Landy's highest ranked Weavers before deleting his toon. This is his second time through the ranks.

Regardless. I can see absolutely zero reason for the weaver to be considered squishy enough to merit a ranged snare. There's just no real reason for it.

Weavers can do damage and cc from range. That more than makes up for any relative squishyness.

There isn't a better kiting class on EITHER side of the fence. Nor is there a better overall support class creepside.

I like your Weaver Foe title....I'm still trying to get my Tier 1 slayer deed for the Freep tanks

[ti-pere3]

Luc, dont you think a RK can kite juste like a spider and maybe bether? AOE mez, single stunt, ranged slow, bether DPS. ??

Mini are not bad too stunt every time they shout and crit for around 1500dmg, the other AOE can crits for a nother 1500dmg, all range 40m instant cast on the move. And it already appen to me, and im using the R2 crit protection.

LM, i dont need to talk about LM they dont need to kit they juste dont need to move at all they can cast anny thing behind them. And aslo a ranged slow 40m range for most of there skill.

Spider is a good kiter but i will not place it on the top liste. They are not bad, but not the best.

[Erelgal2]

No class that I'm aware of has both an in-combat run speed buff and a ranged snare. I've had some of the same issues that you have with seeming inconsistencies between the skills a character has and other skills.

My burglar for instance, while Bleeds are not his sole damage dealing aspect, I had to remember not to bleed my target before CC'ing them. Sometimes a CC is for a rest, so I can pop a pot, regen some, or reset some of my skills for better deployment.

Trying to disable movement while also trying to damage is 'your tactic' working against you, not the class. You just have to adjust tactics, and sometimes there's no I win button. Sometimes another class stomps you because they can better exploit your classes weaknesses than another.

Personally from what I've seen, Weavers are strong despite those weaknesses, and people who are very good at playing Weavers are good because they know their class limitations and then learn to put you in a position where they are strong.

Edit: Personally I believe WtE works well with the Weaver because it is more of a Hybrid melee/ranged than a true ranged class, and therefore they shouldn't have a ranged snare option.

[NYSEguy1970]

Someone else said this, and I concur, that a ranged snare for the weaver would have to entail giving up something in exchange....IF (and it's a big if) such a change/addition was to be considered.

That was why I suggested that some trait a weaver could slot (at the expense of a class trait slot) available after rank 9, would convert the AOE root into an AOE snare.

I might be willing to trade the aoe root for an aoe snare...however, I wouldn't jump into giving up a core skill of my CC without significant consideration....which tells me that in calculating the value of an aoe snare and my aoe root, both are close (at least in my own mind) in value. (relative to what I may have to give up or not give up)

Even if I were to be presented w/the snare instead of the AOE root, I'd have a tough choice as to what class trait slot I'd have to give up in order to slot the snare class trait as I proposed...then I'd have a tough choice deciding if it was worth giving up a trait slot AND my aoe root (which doesn't require a trait slot to be burned currently).

There would be no doubt that I'd try it, but whether I stuck with the snare over the root...not sure..I could see myself switching back and forth for more situational flexibility...which is really the true appeal to adding something like a ranged slow for me...the flexibility to change my 'loadouts'.

[Sezneg]

Someone else said this, and I concur, that a ranged snare for the weaver would have to entail giving up something in exchange....IF (and it's a big if) such a change/addition was to be considered.

That was why I suggested that some trait a weaver could slot (at the expense of a class trait slot) available after rank 9, would convert the AOE root into an AOE snare.

I might be willing to trade the aoe root for an aoe snare...however, I wouldn't jump into giving up a core skill of my CC without significant consideration....which tells me that in calculating the value of an aoe snare and my aoe root, both are close (at least in my own mind) in value. (relative to what I may have to give up or not give up)

Even if I were to be presented w/the snare instead of the AOE root, I'd have a tough choice as to what class trait slot I'd have to give up in order to slot the snare class trait as I proposed...then I'd have a tough choice deciding if it was worth giving up a trait slot AND my aoe root (which doesn't require a trait slot to be burned currently).

There would be no doubt that I'd try it, but whether I stuck with the snare over the root...not sure..I could see myself switching back and forth for more situational flexibility...which is really the true appeal to adding something like a ranged slow for me...the flexibility to change my 'loadouts'.

I disagree because in the current environment of DR, an AOE snare is A LOT more valuable than an AOE root. This choice would be a no-brainer and this trait would become "must slot".

I do not think weavers need a ranged snare at this time.

[timmyloo22546]

Luc, dont you think a RK can kite juste like a spider and maybe bether? AOE mez, single stunt, ranged slow, bether DPS. ??

Spiders: WtE is better than anything a RK has to kite with. WtE CANNOT be b/p/e, CANNOT be resisted, CANNOT be Potted. It allows you to gain plenty of distance to where spider DPS will kill the target. Not to mention a CJ starter (on a seperate DR which means this will take full effect) and +10% incombat run speed.

On top of that...you have a root, aoe root, a mez, a stun.

RKs: well...distracting winds can be resisted and only 5-10m range I think. Chilling rhetoric can be resisted and potted (removed completely). All that is left is a stun (which has a % chance to proc), and two melee mezzes. Weren't you the one crying about CC earlier cuz of DR making it not effective, so why even try to claim it as effective CC now?

Spiders >> Kiting ability than RKs.

[timmyloo22546]

I disagree because in the current environment of DR, an AOE snare is A LOT more valuable than an AOE root. This choice would be a no-brainer and this trait would become "must slot".

I disagree. Saying it is a no-brainer is simply silly. There are a great number of situations where AOE root >>> AOE snare. Once you learn different effective tactics it will start to make sense.