Negative rep a no no conversation?

[KouklaGirl]

As for WB stuff. We all received really nice letters welcoming us to the WB family. Nothing bad to report on that front.

The letter, roughly translated:

Welcome to the family until we figure out if your position is a viable one or not! You'll be meeting with "Bob" and "Bob" in the near future for an interview!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJzpeCMJzs

[Zarador]

It would be my opinion that in most times those who give out negative rep do so because they grow tired of an obvious, clear cut answer being given and then ignored. Then you see several threads after the topic being worded in a different way arguing again how they don't like the answer given as they act like a spoiled child stamping their feet and demanding that heads roll.

Example:

Thread 1: When will we see new content? When they answer "soon", we can't tell you yet, but something big is coming. The argument turns into a flame about other games, being a customer that keeps the game alive, why the company is going down the tubes, what employee is failing to do their job, how bad the job is being done THREAD CLOSED:

Thread 2: When will we here from Turbine about new content? See Thread 1:

Thread 3: Why is Turbine delaying the content? THREAD CLOSED

Thread 4: Can we expect that content is being delayed because of the acquisition? THREAD CLOSED

Thread 5: No announcement yet? THREAD CLOSED

They got the answer, they just don't like the answer.

Well, if you have 1,500 Reputation you must be somewhat active and debated favorably in quite a few debates in the forums. My guess would be that you are also open to reason and it annoys you that someone else is just there to stir up an argument that has no solution since the answer given is not open to debate since you don't control what Turbine does as a business. They see a topic just there to be annoying to others and give it the push they feel it deserves in their opinion, be it right or wrong.

I don't have the ability to award negative rep, but I do weigh inflammatory posts in my own manner. I look up their posting history and see if the poster is just out to troll some ill feelings or if the topic is close to their heart and it's a legitimate issue in their eyes. Sometimes people just have a bad day and their posting history shows that they care about the game and maybe just hit the Submit Reply in a moment of frustration with a thread bomb.

Also, I would venture to say that when someone posts that they just got slammed for a really nasty flame they engaged in, human nature being what it is, someone else decides to slam them for not taking their licks and responsibility for what they knew would get them slapped around a bit. You did it, you knew it was wrong, you got caught, deal with it and move on.

Negative Rep = hit Submit Reply and grab some popcorn or run

Positive Rep = Write, read, think, revise then hit Submit Reply

[evilping]

The letter, roughly translated:

Welcome to the family until we figure out if your position is a viable one or not! You'll be meeting with "Bob" and "Bob" in the near future for an interview!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJzpeCMJzs

I thought the same thing... a "letter" is not really a good sign. :P Usually if they're really interested in retaining folks they'll send someone from the corporate office to personally reassure everyone.

Oh and the Rep system is broken.

But hey, whatever.

[evilping]

It would be my opinion that in most times those who give out negative rep do so because they grow tired of an obvious, clear cut answer being given and then ignored.

They got the answer, they just don't like the answer.


Negative Rep = hit Submit Reply and grab some popcorn or run

Positive Rep = Write, read, think, revise then hit Submit Reply

Mods give out Negative rep too. So when they closed your thread they may have also decided to give you negative rep.

[Dotlbeme]

As to rep system being broken...

Yes, I find it hard to believe someone with 300 posts has a full pip bar.

Rep chasers are worse than star-huggers in the moors. You see some people with a full pip bar and you know they deserve it, others not so much.

A full pip bar does not impress me, but sound advice or well written/humorous posts do.

I am sure the mods do what they can to police the abuses, but in the end it is content that counts.

[Sapience]

Mods give out Negative rep too. So when they closed your thread they may have also decided to give you negative rep.

In general, if a member of the community team has to moderate a thread or post (delete it, edit it, give an infraction for it) then it will also receive negative reputation. If you read the reasons for giving someone neg rep in the drop box it states quite clearly, "Disapprove (e.g. Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines)"


The Community Team gives out a lot of positive rep, too. I think there are a lot of people who would be surprised to find they've gotten positive rep from one of us for very well written posts. Even when they were critical and not supportive. It's not what you say, it's how you choose to say it.

I think people tend to forget, if you didn't make an inappropriate or violating post in the first place, nothing would happen. After all, the cop didn't pull you over for NOT speeding.

[Zopar]

The first rule of fight club, don't talk about fight club!

The second rule of fight club, don't talk about fight club!!

Z

[Swiftstrike]

Well, if you have 1,500 Reputation you must be somewhat active and debated favorably in quite a few debates in the forums.

While this may be true in some cases, it remains a sad fact that writing out a good complete guide or participating in a good debate in obscure forums like Instances, Burglars, Lore-masters, etc will garner someone much less rep than someone posting a lolcat in General Discussion.

[Kraggy]

After all, the cop didn't pull you over for NOT speeding.

No, but there are a growing number of cases of cities where red lights have been fixed to catch more drivers unfairly.

[Radardog]

In general, if a member of the community team has to moderate a thread or post (delete it, edit it, give an infraction for it) then it will also receive negative reputation. If you read the reasons for giving someone neg rep in the drop box it states quite clearly, "Disapprove (e.g. Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines)"


The Community Team gives out a lot of positive rep, too. I think there are a lot of people who would be surprised to find they've gotten positive rep from one of us for very well written posts. Even when they were critical and not supportive. It's not what you say, it's how you choose to say it.

I think people tend to forget, if you didn't make an inappropriate or violating post in the first place, nothing would happen. After all, the cop didn't pull you over for NOT speeding.

I disagree with this entire premise. Call me naive, but I believe moderators should be impartial entities; they are here to give information and maintain the rules given by Turbine. In fact, most of the reputation they were given in the first place (to even be able to give negative rep) was not necessarily earned by insightful or well constructed posts, but rather just on the virtue they are giving out company information or doing their jobs.

If moderators are giving out positive or negative rep, they should be doing so on a non-moderator name, so that the amount of reputation they give is directly related to their forum use while not doing their jobs (and without all the perks of having a blue name).

Simply put, moderators already have tools for infractions and maintaining an orderly forum. Using reputation on top of that tool only takes power away from the community from it objectively identifying what the community sees as a reputable poster.

That said, I beg all blue names to please go to reputation grey and stop influencing forum reputation. Thanks!

IOW:
Sapience, you may be that cop. But you're not a jury of our peers. You handle the infractions, let us handle the rep.

[elderlygamer]

I'm surprised anyone is this concerned about something like forum rep. To me it's irrelevant, but to each his own. And yes I agree the rep huggers are worse than star huggers. At least star hugging adds a minigame to the moors. Forum rep adds... Well... I haven't figured that out yet.

[Khafar]

But you're not a jury of our peers. You handle the infractions, let us handle the rep.

I'm not sure where it was ever stated that forum rep was a tool "just for us", and I don't think it matters much. There are a few of them, and at least hundreds of regular posters. Maybe thousands. We're virtually guaranteed to be the decisive factor on forum rep, but I don't really care if the mods want to chip in too.

Khafar

[Radardog]

I'm not sure where it was ever stated that forum rep was a tool "just for us", and I don't think it matters much. There are a few of them, and at least hundreds of regular posters. Maybe thousands. We're virtually guaranteed to be the decisive factor on forum rep, but I don't really care if the mods want to chip in too.

Khafar

No, there's nothing stating that only non-moderators can use reputation.

It just makes the most sense.

I mean, what is reputation if not a degree of respect in your community?
(yes I know we can argue if the Turbine implementation really reflects this, but that's not the point.)

It's my argument that moderators, while they interact and maintain the community as part of their job description, are not exactly the same type of community member as you or I. Their opinions (approve or disapprove) shouldn't reflect or impact what the community thinks of a reputable poster.

Their opinions should reflect who broke the rules, and how long they get banned for it.

[Darej]

After all, the cop didn't pull you over for NOT speeding.

wanna bet?

in some places if flow of traffic on a highway is over the speed limit and you insist on doing just the speed limit in any lane but the far right an officer can pull you over and cite you for impeding the flow.

No, but there are a growing number of cases of cities where red lights have been fixed to catch more drivers unfairly.

how so?

if the light is yellow slow down...the light turning red doesnt make the camera go off...breaking the plane of the intersection does...

[Khafar]

I mean, what is reputation if not a degree of respect in your community?

It's loosely correlated with that at best. It's as much a measure of how much you post (and where) as a measure of any sort of posting quality. Maybe moreso.

Does anyone really think that the mods here are making or breaking the forum rep of anyone? There are just a couple of them, and the only one posting with any regularity is Sapience. If we like something someone says and Sapience doesn't, we'll "overrule" him by orders of magnitude. Community leaders (and cops) are members of the communties they lead (or police), and they get to "vote" in those communities. I'm fine with it. But as I said, I don't think it makes much practical difference either way.

Khafar

[Jilla]

wanna bet?

in some places if flow of traffic on a highway is over the speed limit and you insist on doing just the speed limit in any lane but the far right an officer can pull you over and cite you for impeding the flow.

I was once pulled over because the cop thought I "looked lost" (I wasn't).

But that's a threadjack

[Darej]

I was once pulled over because the cop thought I "looked lost" (I wasn't).

But that's a threadjack

lol..he or she was just trying to get a date with ya....

[ArahadEketta]

It's loosely correlated with that at best. It's as much a measure of how much you post (and where) as a measure of any sort of posting quality. Maybe moreso.

Does anyone really think that the mods here are making or breaking the forum rep of anyone? There are just a couple of them, and the only one posting with any regularity is Sapience. If we like something someone says and Sapience doesn't, we'll "overrule" him by orders of magnitude. Community leaders (and cops) are members of the communties they lead (or police), and they get to "vote" in those communities. I'm fine with it. But as I said, I don't think it makes much practical difference either way.

Khafar

As Khafar said above. I don't know of any village, town or city here in the U.S. where the Police Officers are not allowed to vote in their local elections. That includes places where they still have Town Meetings (like New England) where the entire populace of that Town is allowed to vote. Especially on things like accepting the new contract with the local Police Union on their pay increases and benifits.

[Radardog]

As Khafar said above. I don't know of any village, town or city here in the U.S. where the Police Officers are not allowed to vote in their local elections. That includes places where they still have Town Meetings (like New England) where the entire populace of that Town is allowed to vote. Especially on things like accepting the new contract with the local Police Union on their pay increases and benifits.

Not a good comparison. Reputation isn't a vote.

Sapience has so much reputation, for example, that he can improve or remove someone's standing equal to around 5 other forum members. I would be fine with that assuming Sapience's reputation were earned without having a blue font attached to his posts. It's an unfair advantage when determining reputable posters.

[Sapience]

Does anyone really think that the mods here are making or breaking the forum rep of anyone? There are just a couple of them, and the only one posting with any regularity is Sapience. If we like something someone says and Sapience doesn't, we'll "overrule" him by orders of magnitude. Community leaders (and cops) are members of the communties they lead (or police), and they get to "vote" in those communities. I'm fine with it. But as I said, I don't think it makes much practical difference either way.

Khafar

This. No one vote out weighs the masses. Of course everything hinges on the community accepting and applying the system correctly. The DDO community has been really good and this and has found that rewarding positive contributors over generally disruptive or negative contributors quickly improves the overall quality of the discussions. Those who only enter threads to try to derail or lock them are quickly (and justly) squelched by the votes of the community.

Of course, all rep, positive and negative, is reviewed on a regular basis to avoid abuses from any individual or group.

[ararax2]

In general, if a member of the community team has to moderate a thread or post (delete it, edit it, give an infraction for it) then it will also receive negative reputation. If you read the reasons for giving someone neg rep in the drop box it states quite clearly, "Disapprove (e.g. Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines)"


The Community Team gives out a lot of positive rep, too. I think there are a lot of people who would be surprised to find they've gotten positive rep from one of us for very well written posts. Even when they were critical and not supportive. It's not what you say, it's how you choose to say it.

I think people tend to forget, if you didn't make an inappropriate or violating post in the first place, nothing would happen. After all, the cop didn't pull you over for NOT speeding.

I could counter that with personal experiences including getting spammed with negative rep from 2 accounts with negative rep (different posts) at the same minute in a week old thread.

And honestly community reps should not be allowed to give out rep good or bad, it clouds their judgement and it puts them on the same level as a teacher trying to be popular with students by hanging out with them.

Community reps have overt tools available to them, this negative rep is just petty from a community rep, infractions are actual penalties, negative rep is just a social game. Very unprofessional by Turbine employees. It's similar to a police officer posting on his facebook that he saw you speeding after he gave you a ticket.

Very unprofessional.

[Radardog]

I could counter that with personal experiences including getting spammed with negative rep from 2 accounts with negative rep (different posts) at the same minute in a week old thread.

And honestly community reps should not be allowed to give out rep good or bad, it clouds their judgement and it puts them on the same level as a teacher trying to be popular with students by hanging out with them.

Community reps have overt tools available to them, this negative rep is just petty from a community rep, infractions are actual penalties, negative rep is just a social game. Very unprofessional by Turbine employees. It's similar to a police officer posting on his facebook that he saw you speeding after he gave you a ticket.

Very unprofessional.

I need to spread around the love.

[gildhur]

I could counter that with personal experiences including getting spammed with negative rep from 2 accounts with negative rep (different posts) at the same minute in a week old thread.

And honestly community reps should not be allowed to give out rep good or bad, it clouds their judgement and it puts them on the same level as a teacher trying to be popular with students by hanging out with them.

Community reps have overt tools available to them, this negative rep is just petty from a community rep, infractions are actual penalties, negative rep is just a social game. Very unprofessional by Turbine employees. It's similar to a police officer posting on his facebook that he saw you speeding after he gave you a ticket.

Very unprofessional.

How is using multiple tools to applaud or reprimand posts "unprofessional"? It's just the same thing in different forms. Just because YOU consider rep to be a "social game" doesn't mean that's how OCR is using it. They're actually using it in the proper way. Maybe you should too.

[ararax2]

How is using multiple tools to applaud or reprimand posts "unprofessional"? It's just the same thing in different forms. Just because YOU consider rep to be a "social game" doesn't mean that's how OCR is using it. They're actually using it in the proper way. Maybe you should too.

Because the "stated reason" for negative rep was that it would allow the community to give their opinion on posts and help identify problem topics.

When you have community reps handing out positive and negative rep (At the tune of nearly 150 per shot) You completely flood out any viable feedback.

If RepX gives someone an infraction for something the community liked at large and got 5 +10s on and RepX gives a negative rep for -150, the person is at -100.

Secondly this is a social game, it ranks people by how much people like their posts, not by how informative they were. You know LOLcat pictures get more + rep then anything.

Have I added anything to this forum since rep came out? Probably not, I've pretty much felt that my $20 preorder for Mirkwood was wasted due to false advertising. Yet somehow I still have rep.

The whole system is a joke if it's not a small social game for people to play while there is a lack of in game content. Sure it started as a decent idea, but now its a popularity contest with no more value then a game. Does anyone have negative rep? No? Then what use is it?

I agree negative rep could be useful at identifying problem issues if it was used as a measure of the communities views on it.

It's pointless as is, and the use by devs of it as a social popularity tool is unprofessional.

Just IMHO.

[gildhur]

Because the "stated reason" for negative rep was that it would allow the community to give their opinion on posts and help identify problem topics.

When you have community reps handing out positive and negative rep (At the tune of nearly 150 per shot) You completely flood out any viable feedback.

If RepX gives someone an infraction for something the community liked at large and got 5 +10s on and RepX gives a negative rep for -150, the person is at -100.

Secondly this is a social game, it ranks people by how much people like their posts, not by how informative they were. You know LOLcat pictures get more + rep then anything.

Have I added anything to this forum since rep came out? Probably not, I've pretty much felt that my $20 preorder for Mirkwood was wasted due to false advertising. Yet somehow I still have rep.

The whole system is a joke if it's not a small social game for people to play while there is a lack of in game content. Sure it started as a decent idea, but now its a popularity contest with no more value then a game. Does anyone have negative rep? No? Then what use is it?

I agree negative rep could be useful at identifying problem issues if it was used as a measure of the communities views on it.

It's pointless as is, and the use by devs of it as a social popularity tool is unprofessional.

Just IMHO.

You're proving my point. If the community itself is using rep in the wrong way, you don't think OCR should have the power to turn it back around themselves by using it in the proper way?