Lifetime Account Members Thread

[CaptainBoots]

I don't know... just taking the wait and see approach I guess. I too feel kind of cheated I guess.

People getting to enjoy something I paid a sub for, then bought a lifetime member ship for.... Sorry, I just don't feel good about the whole thing at the moment.

Yes, I know I get the points. Yes, I know nothing "really" changes for me. But, I PAID for all of this..... I PAID for the awesome community you all have provided over the years. I PAID to enjoy this game, and it was good enough for me to plop down the extra dough for a lifetime sub.

Comments like this make me think you've not fully read how intensely restrictive the Free Accounts are going to be. They start with 1 slot per server, 2 gold max, limited use of mail and chat and forums, can't Monster Play, can't spend Destiny, can run quests ONLY in the three staring regions, and even have limited crafting.

If they want more, they pay for it or wait a much longer time to build up a few store credits. If they want more at a reasonable pace without paying tons of cash they'll just get a monthly subscription. Being bitter over what THEY get for free versus what YOU get for free is not really worth your time. They won't be enjoying for free what you paid for. They'll be enjoying a very limited game indeed.

What's the effect of letting a bunch of NOOBS... (sorry for a lack of a better word) unleash themselves on some of our stable markets in the AH. What about Player Housing? I can already see empty homes bought with no body in them, and then the regular player base can't buy them.
What kind of items will be in this new store? Will the items be worth it? Or just flashy trash to wear?

This is just sad. None of these people are here yet, and they're already being lumped together and insulted. Will there be jerks coming in? yeah, we have 'em now after all. I'd take your own advice and just hang on. Instead of worrying about what might be for bad stuff, ponder some advantages.

[ararax2]

This kind of system is kind of what makes me nervous.

Oh yea, F2P can totally bankrupt someone.

Plus avoid the traps like free random hairstyle potions which will give you a stupid style and cost you $5-$10 to get fixed.

[bigsix66]

Has someone started handing out tin foil hats en masse?

[Brandon_Blackbird]

Has someone started handing out tin foil hats en masse?

No, they cost too many Turbine points.

[lordperrin]

Oh yea, F2P can totally bankrupt someone.

They're DESIGNED to suck up as much money as possible. If Turbine didnt think this move would at least DOUBLE what the average player pays in (and that average includes the people who never pay anything) they would never have spent so much time working on it. Trust me, free to play is bad news for people who want a 10 to 15 dollar a month even playing field.

This business model COUNTS on there being a minority of players who will spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars a month in the item mall for advantage in the game. If you think this game isnt turning to pay to win, you havent played many many free to play games.

[bigsix66]

No, they cost too many Turbine points.

Heh. I doff my tin foil chapeau to you in salute, Sir.

And I thought it was a bargain for only 300 TP.

EDIT: That gives me an idea. I think tin foil hats should be a cosmetic option for our toons in the Turbine store. It would be awesome!

[lordperrin]

This bothers me. Why do I have to login and play to get points I paid for as a lifetime subscriber? I am on a break right now and will be for some time but considering I paid $400 for 2 lifetime accounts I should be getting my points if I login and play or not. Before anyone says gee play for 30 minutes a month, no. I should not have to. I already paid my dues.

Yeah, I have serious issues with this restriction. It's also rather vague. How many minuets EXACTLY are required per month to get these points? Seems designed in bad faith to screw people on a long break, specifically aimed at lifers.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

Yeah, I have serious issues with this restriction. It's also rather vague. How many minuets EXACTLY are required per month to get these points? Seems designed in bad faith to screw people on a long break, specifically aimed at lifers.

Please read entire thread before posting. Thank you.

[Ayrolen]

Yeah, I have serious issues with this restriction. It's also rather vague. How many minuets EXACTLY are required per month to get these points? Seems designed in bad faith to screw people on a long break, specifically aimed at lifers.

At the very least, browse the Dev Tracker before claiming you're getting screwed.

http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php...&postcount=534

[lordperrin]

At the very least, browse the Dev Tracker before claiming you're getting screwed.

http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php...&postcount=534

See Brandon? Was it THAT hard? Thanks for the info Ayrolen. I havent spent much time on this forum, I spend most of my time in-game, and frankly I dont even know what you mean by dev tracker. But thanks for linking the info. Makes sense now.

[RickInVA]

Well, here is my take...

1) Lifetime memberships in anything become worthless when that thing is no longer available.

2) If I still have lifetime access, then I still have what I paid for.

3) Other people having much more limited access for free doesn't diminish my enjoyment. Do I only get enjoyment out of being superior to others, or through playing and enjoying the game?

4) It seems I am also to be given free stuff. I like that.

5) No one ever said that I wouldn't have to pay for expansions or other content, only that my access to the game was paid for as long as there is such a game.

6) It is possible that some players that "play for free" may not be the kind of people I would like to associate with, which is why I belong to a great Kinship. You never have to associate with anyone you don't want too, and many current players are not worth my breath to speak to already (not intended as arrogance, just that not everyone gets along with everyone else).

7) So, I think I will wait and see how this comes out.

In the end I can't see that what I paid for has diminished. Perhaps the relative value of it has diminished, but there was no guarantee in the contract that this wouldn't happen. heck, they could make the whole "top tier" game free to everyone if they wanted to and I would still be getting what I paid for. Might I feel "cheated"? Not really, my lifetime membership has already paid for itself vs. month to month many times over.

So lets see how it goes. For me, I'm not going anywhere.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

The thread would require around 2 hours to read in its entirety. How about no. Maybe instead of being a ~self censored~ you could just tell me where you're claiming Im wrong instead of being intentionally vague and telling me to dig for 2 hours to find a single easy to write piece of information?

Failing that, how about you just dont post your useless spam and let the adults talk?

See Brandon? Was it THAT hard? Thanks for the info Ayrolen. I havent spent much time on this forum, I spend most of my time in-game, and frankly I dont even know what you mean by dev tracker. But thanks for linking the info. Makes sense now.

... really?

Take a chill pill. I was polite, and you insult me. I also didn't claim you were wrong. There's a question/answer thread very prominently stickied at the top of this forum. The question you've asked has been answered at least four times IN this thread alone, including by a community rep.

Not reading all the information before is the reason there's so much doom drama on the forums right now. All I'm asking is that you don't contribute to it by getting in a huff before finding out all the info.

[RickInVA]

They're DESIGNED to suck up as much money as possible. If Turbine didnt think this move would at least DOUBLE what the average player pays in (and that average includes the people who never pay anything) they would never have spent so much time working on it. Trust me, free to play is bad news for people who want a 10 to 15 dollar a month even playing field.

This business model COUNTS on there being a minority of players who will spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars a month in the item mall for advantage in the game. If you think this game isnt turning to pay to win, you havent played many many free to play games.

I am sure you are correct. However, this seems like a similar discussion I had recently about a non-MMO game where there was an "exploit" that made it easy to win. Mr. Icantstandthat wanted that "exploit" removed from the game as it was unfair. I say, who cares? If you don't want to use it, don't. How does someone else a world away winning a game with an "exploit" hurt you in any way? Similarily how does someone with more money than they know what to do with buying lots of shiny stuff in-game impact your enjoyment of the game one bit? If I see someone walking around with a Silmaril on their forehead that they bought in the on-line store I am just going to chuckle that someone would spend money like that, not pine away because I don't have one too.

Thats just me, your mileage may vary.

[Ayrolen]

See Brandon? Was it THAT hard? Thanks for the info Ayrolen. I havent spent much time on this forum, I spend most of my time in-game, and frankly I dont even know what you mean by dev tracker. But thanks for linking the info. Makes sense now.

The links along the top of the forum in Blue. Second from the left is Dev Tracker. This is the place that most replies from Turbine Developers and OCR (if they choose to include their posts in it) will be. It makes it easier to find their replies in threads. There are LOTS from the past day and a half since the F2P announcement, so it would be a good place to browse if you're looking for answers.

This also serves as a good resource: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=335135

[Newgold]

Look out, here comes a stampede of $25 horses!!!

While it seems like most of us are either tentative about the changes or outright disappointed (some are giddy with anticipation, I can't understand why) there's a much bigger issue here that sincerely concerns me.

We've heard rumors for months that a change of this nature might be coming to LOTRO. I believe there are probably a significant number of consumers who would have opted to discontinue devoting hours upon hours developing characters if they had known LOTRO was going this direction. While the change is still months away, some would have liked to have known sooner, not later.

The following applies to the field of MMORPG games as a whole, not LOTRO specifically. The MMORPG industry has become quite large over the past 10 years. Many consumers are devoting their hard-earned cash and large chunks of their lives developing their "toons" and living/wasting (depends on your viewpoint) their lives in these virtual universes. In view of this considerable investment, these consumers probably want to know two key things about their chosen MMORPG from the outset:

1. When I buy the game, purchase a subscription and invest my time, how long can I anticipate this game to be online and functioning? The industry owes the consumer some measure of assurance in this area, particularly if they are promoting "lifetime" subscriptions. Otherwise customers are essentially mere "suckas" in the eyes of big business. In many cases I'm afraid we are.

2. What kind of game is this going to be? Consumers would like to know if the game is going to be, among other things, subscription-based, FTP or whatever. This has a significant impact on the play of the game, cost, etc. and should be established from the outset because of the investments consumers make. Changing this in midstream is tough on some consumers.

Essentially, what I'm trying suggest here is that, as this industry matures corporate responsibility by MMORPG companies needs to mature as well. Perhaps that seems like a far-fetched concept, but we're talking really big business here, and I believe that at some point there's going to have to be some measure of truthful promotion of products for what they are (or what they could become). I don't think the need for money should ever obscure the need for corporate honesty.

LOTRO is not the first game to make this type of change. MMORPGs have made similar changes in their business model "after the fact". Interesting enough, it was a move like this that nudged me toward LOTRO in the first place. Personally, I want LOTRO to survive and succeed. I love the game as it is now and I hope the changes don't impact play or, compound in the future. On the other hand, I'm hoping I don't end up nickled and dimed to death. I hope this business model is one that is prosperous for Turbine and good for LOTRO because after this, I don't see any other positive direction available. As for me personally, I will always assume if/when I buy a Turbine MMORPG that, if it is not already FTP, it eventually will be.

[gildhur]

Look out, here comes a stampede of $25 horses!!!

While it seems like most of us are either tentative about the changes or outright disappointed (some are giddy with anticipation, I can't understand why) there's a much bigger issue here that sincerely concerns me.

We've heard rumors for months that a change of this nature might be coming to LOTRO. I believe there are probably a significant number of consumers who would have opted to discontinue devoting hours upon hours developing characters if they had known LOTRO was going this direction. While the change is still months away, some would have liked to have known sooner, not later.

The following applies to the field of MMORPG games as a whole, not LOTRO specifically. The MMORPG industry has become quite large over the past 10 years. Many consumers are devoting their hard-earned cash and large chunks of their lives developing their "toons" and living/wasting (depends on your viewpoint) their lives in these virtual universes. In view of this considerable investment, these consumers probably want to know two key things about their chosen MMORPG from the outset:

1. When I buy the game, purchase a subscription and invest my time, how long can I anticipate this game to be online and functioning? The industry owes the consumer some measure of assurance in this area, particularly if they are promoting "lifetime" subscriptions. Otherwise customers are essentially mere "suckas" in the eyes of big business. In many cases I'm afraid we are.

2. What kind of game is this going to be? Consumers would like to know if the game is going to be, among other things, subscription-based, FTP or whatever. This has a significant impact on the play of the game, cost, etc. and should be established from the outset because of the investments consumers make. Changing this in midstream is tough on some consumers.

Essentially, what I'm trying suggest here is that, as this industry matures corporate responsibility by MMORPG companies needs to mature as well. Perhaps that seems like a far-fetched concept, but we're talking really big business here, and I believe that at some point there's going to have to be some measure of truthful promotion of products for what they are (or what they could become). I don't think the need for money should ever obscure the need for corporate honesty.

LOTRO is not the first game to make this type of change. MMORPGs have made similar changes in their business model "after the fact". Interesting enough, it was a move like this that nudged me toward LOTRO in the first place. Personally, I want LOTRO to survive and succeed. I love the game as it is now and I hope the changes don't impact play or, compound in the future. On the other hand, I'm hoping I don't end up nickled and dimed to death. I hope this business model is one that is prosperous for Turbine and good for LOTRO because after this, I don't see any other positive direction available. As for me personally, I will always assume if/when I buy a Turbine MMORPG that, if it is not already FTP, it eventually will be.

The things you are asking for might seem reasonable from a consumer perspective, but they are absolutely absurd from a developer perspective.

You're basically asking them to let us know the moment they decide they might change something. If you know anything about the extreme fluidity of MMO development, which your join date suggests you should, you'd know how absurd that is on its face, and what truly disturbing things lurk beneath its potential surface as well.

You request that they tell you how long they think they'll be around. Do you honestly expect any answer other than "forever"? Do you think when LotRO launched three years ago Turbine thought "hmm, this will probably work for a few years, then maybe we'll completely change the subscription model, and then a few years after that I think we'll just shut down"? How in the world can anyone even have that information, let alone provide it to customers that they want to stick around for as long as possible (lest they have to make changes sooner by extension).

You request that they tell you what type of game it will be? What the base subscription model will be in the hypothetical future? Really? While they may have a general plan that spans 6 months or a year or two, plans change, as we've all seen. Especially in a perpetual online environment, NO ONE can tell you what the outlook will be like a few months from now, let alone years down the road.

EVERY player who has been "devoting hours upon hours developing characters" is by definition a paying subscriber. Upon re-launch EVERY one of them will have VIP status. If they continue their subscription (or for lifetime, literally do nothing), there will be no significant change in the way they play the game. There might be more people in the lower levels. There might be more subscribers after a while. There might be some cosmetics, mounts, or extra storage they can spend their FREE points on once in a while. Or they can save up those FREE points and buy expansions that they otherwise would have had to pay money for every year or two. But NOTHING about how they play the game will change. Why in god's name would anyone be "outright disappointed" by this?

[snowshade]

I got a liftime membership, but can no longer play dew to the fact that I can not run it on this lap top, and the love of my life is on that game...

[tiatus1701]

The FAQ can put things a bit bluntly and maybe doesn't get to the meat of things, so let me try and explain a bit better.

As a lifetimer, you entered into an agreement that you would never pay another subscription fee with us again. You still won't. For you, nothing has changed. You will not be billed a subscription, your status and access to the game will not change. You will be getting an additional benefit, however, in the form of Turbine points.

So Gameplay with not change at all? Like I won't have to suddenlt have to buy healing potions or special food like in DDO?

[Ayrolen]

I got a liftime membership, but can no longer play dew to the fact that I can not run it on this lap top, and the love of my life is on that game...

Does the love of your life not have a telephone? Oh wait.... are you RPing?

[lordperrin]

The links along the top of the forum in Blue. Second from the left is Dev Tracker. This is the place that most replies from Turbine Developers and OCR (if they choose to include their posts in it) will be. It makes it easier to find their replies in threads. There are LOTS from the past day and a half since the F2P announcement, so it would be a good place to browse if you're looking for answers.

This also serves as a good resource: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=335135

All good info. Thank you. Would + rep you if hordes of F2P people hadnt -'ed me because I dare to speak my opinion about the transition.

[SgtAnderso]

So Gameplay with not change at all? Like I won't have to suddenlt have to buy healing potions or special food like in DDO?

What part of "Nothing has changed" did you not understand? They didn't say the game play was changing to the point that you can no longer spend your In Game Coin to purchase Healing Potions or Food nor did they say you would no longer be able to craft these items.

As a Lifer the only thing you will have to deal with is the possibility of more people playing the game. WOW that's going to hurt.

[lordperrin]

What part of "Nothing has changed" did you not understand? They didn't say the game play was changing to the point that you can no longer spend your In Game Coin to purchase Healing Potions or Food nor did they say you would no longer be able to craft these items.

As a Lifer the only thing you will have to deal with is the possibility of more people playing the game. WOW that's going to hurt.

You're obviously new to free to play games. That's ok, everyone was new once. Let me explain: When an item mall is introduced to a game like this that offers buff pots, xp pots, and the like (which, 99% of the time cannot be bought with in-game coin), the game itself changes. People level in different ways, suddenly PUGs want to know if you're using such and such a buff from the item mall or else they'll drop you (this happens in Turbine's own DDO all the time).

Anyone claiming that the in-game experience won't be changed significantly by this implementation is fooling themselves.

[Music-chan]

As a founder/lifer, I just wanted to throw in that the free aspect isn't what concerns me the most, but rather the lack of communication the developers feel they can give us when it comes to the future updates of the game.

I want to feel excited about the prospects of this game, the way Blizzard makes people excited about the releases of theirs. Screenshots, cinematics, posts from developers and CMs; all aimed at giving tantilizing bits of information about what's to come.

I'm not saying Turbine should try to be exactly like Blizzard, but it really does say something that the only announcment we've gotten about new content was burried in with this 'exciting' free to play opportunity they're releasing.

Obviously development of a game is a many-changing thing and yes, if you announce something and then have to change it, people will complain. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't ever say ANYTHING. People like to know what's being worked on and what's changing, even changes that are being done to the stuff in progress. It gives us reasons to be excited about a game we've invested so much time in.

I want to be excited about this game. Free-to-play does not excite me. Hearing about Rohan would excite me. Having a basic game plan for which zones they want to release when would excite me, even if it changes every few months. This game is so different from other MMOs because we know where it's going. Nothing is really a suprise. We just want to know HOW it's going to be done.

Please throw us a bone, Turbine. I don't know about other people, but that's all I really want. Something to be excited about.

[lordperrin]

Please throw us a bone, Turbine. I don't know about other people, but that's all I really want. Something to be excited about.

You're obviously supposed to be excited that even though you're getting no new areas until the fall, you can now open your wallet to buy buffs and xp. I mean, thats content! Right? Right?...

[SgtAnderso]

They're DESIGNED to suck up as much money as possible. If Turbine didnt think this move would at least DOUBLE what the average player pays in (and that average includes the people who never pay anything) they would never have spent so much time working on it. Trust me, free to play is bad news for people who want a 10 to 15 dollar a month even playing field.

This business model COUNTS on there being a minority of players who will spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars a month in the item mall for advantage in the game. If you think this game isnt turning to pay to win, you havent played many many free to play games.

What's wrong with WB and Turbine making more money, think about it. They more money they make the more money they can spend on Development. The less money they make the less money they spend on Development. Anytime they can find a model that is succesful and apply it to this game to make more money so they can continue to expand the game is a good thing.

Pay to Win, Honestly the F2P players are so restricted I don't see how they are gong to Pay to Win anything in there restricted model they are given. They can not buy the Top Gear or Rare Items in the Store. Since they are Capped on Gold they won't even be able to afford to buy or craft top tier items how much Top Tier Armor, Jewelry, Weapons can 5G Buy not very much. It's not like they are going to go and buy the Symbol of Crimdor(sp?) which sells for approx 80G in the AH. Besides I believe Turbine has already outlined several approaches to prevent this from happening.

Personally I believe F2P is the right approach in all MMO's, why do you think so many people play Betas. Do play them to see if they are going to enjoy the Game if they enjoy the Beta then there is a good chance they will purchase the Game and Subscription. F2P is the same thing only difference is it's not a Beta. So in a Nutshell if you won't to expand beyound the standard F2P you either 1) Become a Paying Subscriber or 2) You spend money like crazy in the Store to Unlock Features and buy the Expansion Packs. End Result is this player has probably spent the same amount of money.

As a Lifer how are we affected. We aren't affected in anyway what's so ever. Turbine hasn't taken anything away from us - if anything they are giving us more.

How many Lifers have rolled a New Character and tried to find help in any of the areas that are Level 50 and Below? There are a ton of complaints about there not being enough players in these areas, this should help with that.

Personally I think everyone needs to take a step back and just wait to see what happens. Crying Foul before something has even gone live is putting the cart before the horse. Sit back and relax.