Lifetime Account Members Thread

[Raath]

Sort of. You may be thinking about an interview by Mersky a year ago where he said that they had "no plans" to go this route with LOTRO both because it was a different type of game and because it was doing well with a traditional business model. "No plans" doesn't mean "never", though. Not in business. At that point, they had no idea just how successful DDO was going to be. I'm sure that changed things.

Khafar

"Asked whether or not this delivery method would be used for Lord of the Rings Online, the answer was a swift "nope".

"It's a different type of game and this model is not as good a fit." Mersky said."

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/...-the-New-Model

I just happened to be reading that before I saw this post, even tho I think you're thinking of a different article.

That doesn't really sound like "no plans", but more like "not going to happen"...to me.

However, things change.

[Music-chan]

I'm hoping the expansion we get this Fall will be a Large one. Hopefully we get to find out how large it really will be in the next week or so. I'm also hoping that Rohan isn't too far away.

Wonder if I will be able to purchase Mount Doom in the Store...

Not to jump on the negative boat or anything, but they already said the new content would be one zone, another 65-ish area. I haven't seen the size of it, but that doesn't sound very big to me.

Which is my biggest issue with Turbine. They should really be playing up their new content, not focusing on this whole F2P thing. This would make current users very happy to have something fresh and new to focus on, not worrying about whether or not an influx of players is going to ruin our community.

[Golledhel]

as a lifetime account holder, my point is this:

if i discovered this game for the first time today, i would not purchase a lifetime account, i'd wait for the F2P to start.

based on my game view, the extras that lifetimers get are not enough of an enticement for me to pay for this game.

the basic gameplay will be the same for everyone, so why would i want to pay anything?

that's why i would appreciate a refund or a pro-rated refund based on the amount of time i have spent in-game.

A Free player would be capped at Lv 50. Would have lots of chat restrictions, like only 1 tell every 5 seconds. Would not be able to post any items on the Auction House. Would have limited mail usage. Would have only 3 inventory bags. Would only be able to play 1 character. Would only have 1 or 2 trait slots for each type of trait. Would not have rest experience. While they would be able to go all the way to Moria, they would only be able to quest up to level 22 in the Shire, Ered Luin, and Bree-land. So they would have to kill monsters and rely on deeds for the other 28 levels(without rest experience). They would have a 2 gold cap, which basically means they will not be able to buy any horse other than the slow Lv 20 horse.

They would have to put some money into the game to get upgraded to Premium, which relaxes the limits a bit, but still has big limits. Or they could put alot more effort into the game to get enough turbine points to relax some of the limits and buy the content updates.

VIPs, on the other hand, will have full access to the game from the get-go(they will have exactly what they have now, provided they bought Moria and Mirkwood), will get "free" access to the content updates, and will get a bonus 500 points per month to spend on what they wish. It's also possible they'll get access to new content before the premium and free players, as is the case with DDO.

The free version of the game is just a never-ending trial with harsher limits. Getting a lifetime account for the time being is going to be worth it. Though I believe they're not offering it anymore.

[Khafar]

Well, this is what Mersky said in this interview last summer:

Are there any plans to implement this business model for LotRO or Asheron's Call?

Adam: Not really. In bringing LotRO and DDO over to Asia over the past few years, the games we were competing against over there were free-to-play games. So we saw the power of this model, knowing that we needed to lead in this space, and we wondered how we could do that. Do we port an existing game? Do we make a new game? Then we looked at DDO and thought this game is pretty perfect for this model. The style of gameplay, with small group instanced experiences, makes it easy for us to lock off and allow players to purchase access as they need it. Where as LotRO is a much different, open world with a traditional experience that doesn't lend itself to this type of model...

We've been working on this for well over a year, and we had to really go back and re-engineer the game to work under this model, but to answer your question, we have no plans to do this to LotRO because it's a different kind of game. Quite frankly, LotRO's doing really well in its current situation.

As I said, that was all before they had any real clue about just how successful DDO was going to be. If DDO had been a marginal success, I very much doubt they would have gone through all the trouble to move LOTRO to that model. My guess is that they didn't do it for AC because it's just not salvagable at this point - they wanted to get to that 10 year milestone, but I don't think anyone will be all that surprised when it shuts down. I loved that game, but its very dated graphics alone are enough to keep it from really succeeding at this point.

Khafar

[Vormaerin]

He's right, this model isn't as good a fight for an open world game. Having access to the Lonelands, but not to the quest givers is clearly not as clean as a not being able to zone to the Desert of Menechtarun, as in DDO.

But the pay as you go system was wildly more successful than they expected at DDO. Turbine said all along they thought the future of the industry was away from pure subscription based games. They didn't think it made sense to make the switch with LotRO, but the obvious demand for multitrack payment schemed games that DDO's stunning turnaround revealed obviously changed their thinking there.

[Artanisul]

He's right, this model isn't as good a fight for an open world game. Having access to the Lonelands, but not to the quest givers is clearly not as clean as a not being able to zone to the Desert of Menechtarun, as in DDO.

But the pay as you go system was wildly more successful than they expected at DDO. Turbine said all along they thought the future of the industry was away from pure subscription based games. They didn't think it made sense to make the switch with LotRO, but the obvious demand for multitrack payment schemed games that DDO's stunning turnaround revealed obviously changed their thinking there.

This post made me think of something...The books quests are available to F2P...but in the Lone Lands the book needs rep with the Eglan. They can not get rep with them without other quests...sneaky huh?

[Drogo1]

This concern I get... however, I have to take exception to this perspective because 1) it is the kind of elitism that will foster discontent once the F2P elements go live and 2) Overlooks the very real contingent of unfriendly, trollish players that are already in game. We have tools to deal with the latter... staying out of global chat channels or simply putting people on ignore are all it really takes to avoid those you do not wish to deal with.

Fostering a culture of discrimination against people who would not otherwise try the game is very wrong-headed as it will encourage confrontation and poor behavior right out the gate.

Please, oh please, OH PLEASE can we get your last sentence there in 4 foot high flashing red font on everyone's launcher window?

So Turbine changed things and you're mad at them, fine - but don't take it out on people who are just trying out the game and may possibly spend some money to help keep this wonderful game afloat.

Will there be some jerks? Probably. Will EVERYONE who plays for FREE be a jerk - most assuredly not. I don't think the ratio of jerks to fine people will be much different than it is with the Free Trial players of today.

This is just sad. None of these people are here yet, and they're already being lumped together and insulted. Will there be jerks coming in? yeah, we have 'em now after all. I'd take your own advice and just hang on. Instead of worrying about what might be for bad stuff, ponder some advantages.

I hear what you're saying - all these people whining about how the new free players are all gonna be jerks and they just don't deserve to be on the same server as us paying players... *sigh* Pot/Kettle/Black....

My guess is that they didn't do it for AC because it's just not salvagable at this point - they wanted to get to that 10 year milestone, but I don't think anyone will be all that surprised when it shuts down. I loved that game, but its very dated graphics alone are enough to keep it from really succeeding at this point.

Khafar

I know - I'll be sad to see my first MMO go the way of the Dodo... *sigh*

[0zgamer1]

I did the closed beta, open beta and got a lifetime sub on release, ive been very happy with the game so far even tho i had a 1 and a half year break (had wireless internet and everything was unplayable) and i dont think this is a bad thing at all. As a founding member in DDO i play that F2P as i spend most of my time playing LOTRO and the lifetime sub has definitely paid for itself. I'm looking at the whole sitiuation with the F2P this way: i dont pay a monthly sub, i get everything i had before AND turbine gives me free points to buy whatever i want with in the store. ITS LIKE I'M BEING PAID TO PLAY A GAME I LOVE. How can you complain about that???
Anyways thats just my 2cp worth

[KenR]

Who in the hell cares if idiots burn through the damn game that they run out of things to do the day of the patch.

Assuming they are spending lots of money WB will care. Why? Because they don't want their cash cows bored and leaving. So what do they do? They add even more grind so only the "idiots" spending money can get through it all.

Furthermore the game becomes trival because players have 6 store bought buffs going so they raise the difficulty. Leaving the non "idiots" under powered and dealing with a mountain of grind.

[Devildoc]

http://www.vg247.com/2010/05/14/npd-...st-played-mmo/

http://www.massively.com/2010/05/13/...in-mmo-survey/

Something has to be working if at least 3 of the top 5 played MMO's are F2P or have No monthly subscriptions.

WoW is the only holdover for subscription MMO's. Runescape has always been a F2P model with the ability to pay for a better account and perks. GW has always been buy the box, play the game for free, and they introduced micros, and I know DDO couldn't have made top 5 in its dreams back when it was subscription. Wonder what #5 was in that list.

[Dilenger]

I don't know if it's been mentioned before but perhaps they could offer up some kind of incentives to get people to subscribe to the game on a monthly between now and launch of F2P. It might bring in some revenue for them.

As a founding lifer I'm finding it difficult to get worked up over this announcement. Hopefully it will allow them (Turbine) to continue to develop this game well into the future with more frequent content addiditons. I've only ever had to pay for the Moria and Mirkwood expansions, over and above the original investment, and have derived a great deal of entertainment from the game over the years.

Who knows, maybe WB will pick up the making of the Hobbit movie since it got delayed or cancelled... How about it WB?

Sincerely,
A Fan.

[BINKLEY1]

What a thread!

Great links from Patience to the MMO survey with DDO in third. (Will FTP pull up LOTRO and knock Runescape from top 3? Magic 8-ball says ... Outlook good.)

And then, immediately followed by:

Mounts cost $10-20(norm vs flying), you keep it for life.
Housing is a big money pit.
Re build your chars looks $
cosmetic armor $
high end gear enhancements either buy off AH from those who spend $ or buy for $.
But nothing that prevents you from doing whatever you want in game really.

I think I blew $10 ish my first month for my horse but nothing since.

[...]

Some people on Gaia and RoM spend >$200 a month.
Some spend nothing ever.

I'll have to revisit this post after my 24-hour cooldown on adding rep - great comment!

This is the most concrete, realistic remark I've read on the whole FTP change:

1. Its based on a poster's real experience
2. It relates a relevant, similar experience from another FTP game
3. The sky neither falls, nor do the oceans recede

Cheers,
Gloimli

[Ehra]

Lifers do NOT get unlimited item mall content. Do you not understand the concept that they're going to be selling major buffs, rez pots, xp pots, and the like?

Outside of being able to rez we already CAN get those things for free through Destiny Points, which are going to still be in the game once F2P comes around.

[Patience]

Not that it really could apply to LOTRO I guess, but don't overlook the 32 point build. That's a pretty big advantage, so much that when you unlock it (the old fashion way) people would go back and reroll characters.

You can still unlock 32 point builds in the game. In fact, you don't ever have to open the DDO Store if you don't want to; you can still access everything in the game through gameplay alone if you like. LOTRO follows this same philosophy for the most part, although because we had two expansions there are places it differs slightly for things that were expansion-only and therefore have always cost money - but those things can be bought with the free points you earn through gameplay now, where they obviously never could before.

[Dinara]

You can still unlock 32 point builds in the game. In fact, you don't ever have to open the DDO Store if you don't want to; you can still access everything in the game through gameplay alone if you like. LOTRO follows this same philosophy for the most part, although because we had two expansions there are places it differs slightly for things that were expansion-only and therefore have always cost money - but those things can be bought with the free points you earn through gameplay now, where they obviously never could before.

The question is, is it a reasonable amount of points? or some extreme amount that no one is ever going to be able to acheive without grinding 24/7?

Also, can you use a mixture of points and money for the expansions/additions?

I am also going to assume we are going to have to pay points for each book patch now, which we didn't have to do before. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[JonC]

I do not come to the board alot...because frankly I'm not really a board person and find them oftentimes whiny.

I would like to state my opinion on the F2P announcement for the record. I have no illusions that it will change the decision already made by Turbine/WB.

The decision to go F2P is based entirely for financial reasons - to get more money for Turbine/WB. Any statement to the contrary is a falsehood. They are not doing it for the players, they are doing it to get more money. It is an easier change then spending the time and money to add more quality content. Quality content would increase the player base and increase the money being obtained by Turbine/WB but the profit margin is not as great as they would have to spend more money than going F2P to do so. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed at this choice. I would rather pay for new quality content than go F2P.

I am a lifetime subscriber and have read most of the posts on this now 43 page thread. I can't say I read them all as I like to think that I have a real life. However, I'd like to address those who think that the lifetime subscribers aren't allowed to feel slightly cheated. To those people, you just don't get it.

When I took a lifetime membership subsequent to my playing in Beta, I was given a limited number of options - pay a monthly subscription, pay a lifetime subscription or stop playing the game. I wasn't given the option of pay a monthly subscription, pay a lifetime subscription or play it free but for less TPs.

So, I paid a premium for not paying a subscription fee - which privilege others now get for free. To ease the feeling of being cheated (having the reason for my paying a premium pulled out from under me), Turbine/WB has instituted this "store" concept with points and with more points going to lifetime members as a bandaid- but what it really is is a disingenous way of getting more RL money from those who don't keep track of what money they spend. Frankly, the value of the bandaid for being cheated has yet to be shown. So, I, along with others, will wait and see and I, along with others, will make a decision once we see the value of the bandaid versus its cost and choose what to do. To stay or to leave.

Lastly, and I will wait for time to prove me correct or incorrect, I believe that F2P is a short term solution for extending the life of a MMO. In the final analysis, it is the quality and amount of the content in a game and not the free or pay status that maintains a player base and a game.

[carlosjuero]

The question is, is it a reasonable amount of points? or some extreme amount that no one is ever going to be able to acheive without grinding 24/7?

Also, can you use a mixture of points and money for the expansions/additions?

I am also going to assume we are going to have to pay points for each book patch now, which we didn't have to do before. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Here is your correction - the post by patience: http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php...90&postcount=3

The thread in total: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...90#post4698790

[OLRINN]

So for me personally, the kids get to continue to play and I get to save $10 a month, Yippee.

This is why I do not get F2P. Doesn't it hurt sales almost as much as it helps?

[gildhur]

This is why I do not get F2P. Doesn't it hurt sales almost as much as it helps?

No, because the people who want unlimited content will continue to pay their subscriptions, and the limited free access will bring in a TON of new people, some of whom will become subscribers or at least start paying for things from the store.

[asharin]

I'm starting this thread for any lifetime subscription members to speak.

[ /Edit

Current perspective: Optimistic but not entirely pleased, not yet convinced, waiting to see, undecided, giving the benefit of the doubt
Deleted most of my comments since this thread took on an unexpected life of its own.

If you purchased a lifetime account how do you feel about the announcement?

/End Edit]

Optimistic. I hope a lot of my guild/kin come back to the game,...a few have expressed interest, along with some members from other branches of the guild. For instance a few of the WoW arm and SWG arm's of our guild plan on trying LOTRO out.
I think we'll see a definite increase in casual players too, after all if it's free they can dip in and out whenever they like.

I feel I already got my money's worth from my lifetime sub anyway, as I took advantage of the favourable US/UK exchange rate at the time....my lifetime sub cost me about 8 or 9 months worth of subs

All the bonuses we get as a VIP are icing on the cake for me.

[Scirocco]

So, I paid a premium for not paying a subscription fee - which privilege others now get for free. To ease the feeling of being cheated (having the reason for my paying a premium pulled out from under me), Turbine/WB has instituted this "store" concept with points and with more points going to lifetime members as a bandaid- but what it really is is a disingenous way of getting more RL money from those who don't keep track of what money they spend. Frankly, the value of the bandaid for being cheated has yet to be shown. So, I, along with others, will wait and see and I, along with others, will make a decision once we see the value of the bandaid versus its cost and choose what to do. To stay or to leave.

I am a lifetime subscriber as well, and I don't understand your viewpoint at all.

I paid a premium for not paying a subscription fee, and I will continue to have full access to the game. That premium also will generate points for me, for free, to spend in the store.

All the new people not paying a subscription fee will NOT have full access to the game as I do, unless they pay for it. They also will not be getting free points every month, like I do. In other words, if they want what I have, they will have to pay for it piece by piece and month by month going forward. And, in fact, they can never have as much as I have as a lifetime subscriber.

How on earth can anyone consider a lifetime subscriber to be cheated on this basis?

[Dinara]

Thank you carlosjuero for the correction.

However I have another question.

In Diablo II they will disable your account if you don't log in for 90 days. I guess to keep their database from getting too bloated.

How is LOTRO going to handle this same situation? (Database overload)

Imagine thousands of people trying the game for a few days or weeks and then never returning. What of all those names of characters that are used, will they never be able to be used again? I am sure some will be just plain stupid names but I am sure there will be some that arn't too bad.

This also applys to someone that can't access the game for a several months. What will happen to their account?

[imptown]

A Free player would be capped at Lv 50. Would have lots of chat restrictions, like only 1 tell every 5 seconds. Would not be able to post any items on the Auction House. Would have limited mail usage. Would have only 3 inventory bags. Would only be able to play 1 character. Would only have 1 or 2 trait slots for each type of trait. Would not have rest experience. While they would be able to go all the way to Moria, they would only be able to quest up to level 22 in the Shire, Ered Luin, and Bree-land. So they would have to kill monsters and rely on deeds for the other 28 levels(without rest experience). They would have a 2 gold cap, which basically means they will not be able to buy any horse other than the slow Lv 20 horse.

They would have to put some money into the game to get upgraded to Premium, which relaxes the limits a bit, but still has big limits. Or they could put alot more effort into the game to get enough turbine points to relax some of the limits and buy the content updates.

VIPs, on the other hand, will have full access to the game from the get-go(they will have exactly what they have now, provided they bought Moria and Mirkwood), will get "free" access to the content updates, and will get a bonus 500 points per month to spend on what they wish. It's also possible they'll get access to new content before the premium and free players, as is the case with DDO.

The free version of the game is just a never-ending trial with harsher limits. Getting a lifetime account for the time being is going to be worth it. Though I believe they're not offering it anymore.

first of all, is there any way for me to tell exactly how many hours/days i have played this game?

second, thanks, Golledhel, for spelling out in a nutshell exactly what some of the benefits of being a lifetimer are. i'm sure you clarified some things not only for me but for other readers.

but the pragmatist in me still takes issue with paying for a F2P game. (sometimes it is hard enough for me to wrap my head around the time i actually spend playing MMORPGs!)

my playstyle already sort of deals with a "never-ending trial with harsher limits"--that does not scare me off. and i still see myself playing the F2P version of LotR once (if?) i get this lifetime membership issue resolved one way or the other.

because, personally, i still take issue with having paid to play. so i still would appreciate Turbine's refund/pro-rated refund based on my amount of gameplay or the right to legally sell my lifetime to one of you that wants it.

[Patience]

Thank you carlosjuero for the correction.

However I have another question.

In Diablo II they will disable your account if you don't log in for 90 days. I guess to keep their database from getting too bloated.

How is LOTRO going to handle this same situation? (Database overload)

Imagine thousands of people trying the game for a few days or weeks and then never returning. What of all those names of characters that are used, will they never be able to be used again? I am sure some will be just plain stupid names but I am sure there will be some that arn't too bad.

This also applys to someone that can't access the game for a several months. What will happen to their account?

Characters are never deleted. Your account will never be downgraded for inactivity.

[carlosjuero]

Thank you carlosjuero for the correction.

However I have another question.

In Diablo II they will disable your account if you don't log in for 90 days. I guess to keep their database from getting too bloated.

How is LOTRO going to handle this same situation? (Database overload)

Imagine thousands of people trying the game for a few days or weeks and then never returning. What of all those names of characters that are used, will they never be able to be used again? I am sure some will be just plain stupid names but I am sure there will be some that arn't too bad.

This also applys to someone that can't access the game for a several months. What will happen to their account?

In DDO nothing happens to Dormant Accounts, I am guessing it will be the same here.

Think of it like this: Right now they still have the account data/character data from every character who has ever subscribed, played the Open Beta (but not subscribed), or played the Free Trial.

The name problem is something that people have been having issues with for quite a while now (though I rarely have to try more than twice to get a name that looks and sounds good to me), I don't think F2P will change that too much (thats opinion though). A possible idea for the suggestion forums would be name resets for Free accounts over X days inactive and under Y level maybe?