Lifetime Account Members Thread

[Kraggy]

Yes, Patience already confirmed that. It's the only way to really gauge what works and what doesn't..

Patience's comment is flawed IMO.

Why?

Because these players know that they don't have to live with the consequences of their choices. Yes, they will spend real money (which clearly I didn't expect until Patience said that), however that in now way logically leads to a valid idea as to their views on their purchases. They can buy anything and know that they'll get their points back even if their choice turns out to be a lemon.

I suspect real F2P players won't get a 'money back guarantee' like that, so human nature tells you that they'll view things a lot differently than they would if they were free to change their mind without consequences.

They don't have to do anything. If they want to spend points above and beyond what they are given to test with, then yes, they'll have to use their own money.

Yes but what they spend money ON doesn't matter, they'll get credited back, which is the point, there's no consequences to their poor decisions so they'll not be too bothered about making a mistake!

It's a fact of modern life, best seen in lawsuit-happy America, people don't accept the consequences of their actions and usually look to blame someone else. In this test Turbine are shielding them from the results of poor decision making and so the decisions themselves will be of dubious value to anyone looking to obtain value judgments from the testing population.

[Kraggy]

...none of which detracts from the point. Mirkwood counts as an expansion because the level cap was raised. I think this has been the standard definition of expansion is every level-based MMO I've played.

The fact you've not played every one is what leads to your false assumption.

There is no immutable MMO law that says an expansion requires an increase in a character's numeric stats, there are a few successful MMOs that don't look at it like that: FFXI for one.

[SaintBass]

It worked in the DDO beta. Should work just fine in the LOTRO beta.

[Kraggy]

It worked in the DDO beta. Should work just fine in the LOTRO beta.

Depends on how you view worked. If the DDO test and subsequent roll-out were so successful just how much 'testing' and 'tweaking' do you really think this 'test' is going to change that?

[Kraggy]

Considering you can buy Haste Pots/scrolls/wands in the game and the fact that Haste is a staple D&D spell... I fail to see how you see it as a "big advantage" item?

How about it gives those able to buy them in quantity an advantage over those who have to farm them in-game by some means or other because those with fat wallets can buy themselves out of having to 'waste' their time doing so?

[carlosjuero]

How about it gives those able to buy them in quantity an advantage over those who have to farm them in-game by some means or other because those with fat wallets can buy themselves out of having to 'waste' their time doing so?

Then I guess I should call it and advantage that people get more playtime than me too eh? You know, cause they can get stuff easier than I can (with their rep/raids/etc) "grinding" out lower level quests and reputation.

[Ehra]

How about it gives those able to buy them in quantity an advantage over those who have to farm them in-game by some means or other because those with fat wallets can buy themselves out of having to 'waste' their time doing so?

Ask actual DDO players how much of an "advantage" it is to buy with real money something that's so ridiculously easy to get ingame and they'll laugh. You can buy these things from vendors at practically no cost.

Honestly, the only "concern" I have for those things being in the shop is for new players (who don't know any better) getting ripped off. As I said before, one of Turbine's "top sellers" was +1 Full Plate. Tell me how much of an "advantage" it would be to buy yellow level 20 or so mob dropped armor and you'll be close to the LOTRO equivalent of that one.

[Nosdracir]

Patience's comment is flawed IMO.

Why?

Because these players know that they don't have to live with the consequences of their choices. Yes, they will spend real money (which clearly I didn't expect until Patience said that), however that in now way logically leads to a valid idea as to their views on their purchases. They can buy anything and know that they'll get their points back even if their choice turns out to be a lemon.

I suspect real F2P players won't get a 'money back guarantee' like that, so human nature tells you that they'll view things a lot differently than they would if they were free to change their mind without consequences.



Yes but what they spend money ON doesn't matter, they'll get credited back, which is the point, there's no consequences to their poor decisions so they'll not be too bothered about making a mistake!

It's a fact of modern life, best seen in lawsuit-happy America, people don't accept the consequences of their actions and usually look to blame someone else. In this test Turbine are shielding them from the results of poor decision making and so the decisions themselves will be of dubious value to anyone looking to obtain value judgments from the testing population.

There is a consequence to spending the money to buy points. They do not get the cash refunded. Most will only spend money in beta if they think that the refunded points will be useful to them in live (in addition to any anticipated bonus or earned points).

True, some people may spend money frivolously in beta. These would be ideal customers.

[Raath]

Ask actual DDO players how much of an "advantage" it is to buy with real money something that's so ridiculously easy to get ingame and they'll laugh. You can buy these things from vendors at practically no cost.

32 pt builds and +2 Tomes easy to get in-game?

[Ehra]

32 pt builds and +2 Tomes easy to get in-game?

We were talking about haste potions.

32pt builds and +2 Tomes are certainly more difficult to get than other items in the shop. But, in the case of +2 Tomes, they're still not hard to get ingame. As for 32 point builds, I'd still place that one under convenience. It's not difficult to build up the favor needed, it just takes awhile. But once you unlock it you don't need to worry about it anymore (unless you switch servers).

[Raath]

Probably because at the time no one bothered about its meaningless boast. However many of us are sick and tired of the continual "vote for us" and "look how great we are" links 'blues' post pointing at internet web sites where self-selecting fanboys of all games vie to see how many of them there are in each game. It's sad that Turbine feel the need to try to bolster the game by pointing to such un-scientific and meaningless sources of information.

I have yet to see ANY poll/survey/whatever that I will accept is truly a professionally run and managed attempt at ascertaining gamers views of the games they play: no gamers web site has the remotest possibility of doing that.

Hint: a self-selected population can NEVER be the basis of a valid attempt at ascertaining a wider population's opinion. Thinking it does is delusional.

May I suggest actually learning who the NPD group is?

[Merlinda]

I'm starting this thread for any lifetime subscription members to speak.

[ /Edit

Current perspective: Optimistic but not entirely pleased, not yet convinced, waiting to see, undecided, giving the benefit of the doubt
Deleted most of my comments since this thread took on an unexpected life of its own.

If you purchased a lifetime account how do you feel about the announcement?

/End Edit]

This program doesn't bother me one bit and wont ever. Hubby is on unemployment, not like I can afford goodies with cash. I have had fun in the past and will still have fun in the future without dumping a whole lot of cash into the game. Heh

[willwheels]

May I suggest actually learning who the NPD group is?

For serious. These kinds of panels are widely used in marketing, for good reason. They are not perfect but there's a good reason people pay NPD and other groups good money to do surveys.

[Safgril]

i dont share the same sentiment as some of you. I dont care about some shop or some points they bribe me with. I paid a lifetime sub for Lord of the Rings Online pay to play game.. Not a FREE TO PLAY game

I hate free to play games and dont like the shops attached to them.

[phaelan2]

i dont share the same sentiment as some of you. I dont care about some shop or some points they bribe me with. I paid a lifetime sub for Lord of the Rings Online pay to play game.. Not a FREE TO PLAY game

I hate free to play games and dont like the shops attached to them.

It's not a free to play game; it's a hybrid model with numerous options. And from the sounds of it, you've got the best deal of the bunch.

[Kraggy]

You can look down your nose at me or others on the forum who don't share your bitter world view, and that's okay. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. It doesn't make you right; it doesn't make you look wise and all-knowing, either.

Not a matter of looking down my nose, nor am I bothered trying to look wise, though maybe I'm saying I don't believe I'm gullible: all I'm doing is observing that the company whose word you seem to take without question has a history of saying things that don't actually turn out quite how they said they would, and in doing so upset many people.

Clearly one of us is wrong, time will tell, however my assuming the worst means I may just be pleasantly surprised when one day something Turbine says will happen actually tuns out the way they said: but I'm not holding my breath because in this context what they did in DDO already differs from what they're suggesting will happen in LoTR:O and right now I see no reason why they'll do something different in LoTR:O that was a success in DDO.

Remember, 12 months ago they were saying that LoTR:O was so different from DDO that the F2P model had no place in it .. didn't quite turn out like that, did it?

[phaelan2]

Not a matter of looking down my nose, nor am I bothered trying to look wise, though maybe I'm saying I don't believe I'm gullible: all I'm doing is observing that the company whose word you seem to take without question has a history of saying things that don't actually turn out quite how they said they would, and in doing so upset many people.

Clearly one of us is wrong, time will tell, however my assuming the worst means I may just be pleasantly surprised when one day something Turbine says will happen actually tuns out the way they said: but I'm not holding my breath because in this context what they did in DDO already differs from what they're suggesting will happen in LoTR:O and right now I see no reason why they'll do something different in LoTR:O that was a success in DDO.

Remember, 12 months ago they were saying that LoTR:O was so different from DDO that the F2P model had no place in it .. didn't quite turn out like that, did it?

I've never said I agree with everything they've done. Their track record overall is actually pretty good, though. Most of what we've been told over the years has been pretty accurate.

However, I do realize that plans change (due to a variety of circumstances), some things just don't work from a tech standpoint and have to be modified, and so forth. that's why most MMO companies don't dangle a lot of info out in front of their customers. If they do, and it doesn't work out, miffed users cry foul.

It's pretty much a darned if you do, darned if you don't position. If they are silent, they get jumped on for lack of communication or not caring about the users. If they give out info early, and something happens in the background that makes it unfeasible, they get accused of lying.

I'm not gullible either, Krag. I tend to be an "optimistic cynic". I've done a bit of griping myself on these forums. I've been called both a fanboy and a troll. In this case, I'm doing a lot of reading of dev comments, release info, and FAQs before coming to judgment.

If they are accurate, great. The only way I can read them otherwise would be to assume that they are intentionally heavily lying to me. After three years with LOTRO experience, that level of cynism is totally unwarranted for me.

[Tuin]

Please... RPers, SHOULD have a dedicated server. I enjoy RPing. I'm not a fanatic about it, but I believe in things like the VERY basic of having lore appropriate names, and I will also RP back when someone engages me in it, I even solo-Roleplay by talking back to NPCs.

So... I play primarily on Landroval (the unofficial RP server), and yet I STILL have to encounter dumb-a***s that name their character 'IwillRobYou'. I didn't report his name because he was level 65!!! And I don't report stupid names for characters I meet that are level 30 or above (since I figure by then they've gotten pretty attached to the name - of course that's at my leveling speed time frame, so maybe that person got to level 65 in 2 weeks and I should still report it) . Anyhow, yesterday I name reported HotChik, who I saw was a level 6 character, simply because I had to go back to Archet for a quest and saw her running around.

Did IwillRobYou and HotChick KNOW that Landroval is the unofficial RP server? Probably not. But it WOULD help if it was labeled an official RP server, so there would be less likelihood of people making asinine character names, and there would be stricter GM enforcement of naming policy.

So... probably the biggest thing I'm NOT looking forward to when F2P launches is the massive influx of WoW-like HaXorRoxxorUrMamma character names.

No offense but some people give their toons weird names because of inside jokes in their kin, from the moors, etc. A name like "Iwillrobyou" on a burg is relative to that class, and considering how long it takes to make a lore-appropriate name now more satirical names have shown up or mere alterations of existing names.

[Ehra]

No offense but some people give their toons weird names because of inside jokes in their kin, from the moors, etc. A name like "Iwillrobyou" on a burg is relative to that class, and considering how long it takes to make a lore-appropriate name now more satirical names have shown up or mere alterations of existing names.

I never got the argument about how it supposedly takes so long to come up with "lore-appropriate" names. You don't have to research Middle Earth naming conventions to come up with a name that isn't obnoxiously out of place (like Iwillrobyou). As long as it sounds like something that could possibly fit then it's fine.

Ehra
Odlus
Bleth
Exalith
Drane
Thorgale

All of these are unique names I've come up with in the past, either specifically for LOTRO or in online games I've played before (Thorgale and Ehra are names that I've used since my very first MMO, back in Dark Age of Camelot). They all took under a minute of thinking about different sounds that not only sound good together but would also look good when typed out. And these are names that I never have to worry about being taken any time I visit a new game.

Are they 100% Tokien approved, as far as being names that you would find in Middle Earth? No, they they most likely aren't. But they're not going to raise any complaints from RPers, either.

[Yanic_Dagger]

Greetings All;

I have to say, when I first read the F2P announcement, I thought “Oh great, there’s two lifetime subs down the drain”, one for Me and one for My wife. But then I took the time to read through the details and to be honest I’m stumped. Where is all this absurd **** coming from? Why are there so many lifers that are freaking out and wanting a refund? Lifers from what I’ve seen are going to be making out like bandits here. Most of us are going to start the F2P era with at least 1000 Turbine points, I figure My wife and I will have around 5000 each depending on when it goes live, plus we will be getting another 500 points each a month for doing nothing. We will still have access to all the areas we have now, all the character classes, everything that we have now and we will still never have to pay another dime for a monthly subscription to be able to play a game we both love.

People that sign up to play for free won’t have anywhere near the areas available to them, they won’t have all the character classes that we have and they will be limited in many other ways.

No other group of people in the game will be getting “Free Points”

And according to what I’ve read those points can be used to purchase future expansion packs so the odds are pretty good that I’ll never have to spend another dime on an expansion pack either.

So before F2P a lifer had no monthly fee, but had to pay money for expansions like MoM and SoM, after F2P still don’t have to pay a monthly fee, and now I can use My free Turbine points for expansions. That’s fine with Me.

Now I’m not saying that this is a fantastic thing for the game in general. I still have mixed feelings about. I have My concerns about the community and about the game seeing a sudden rise in gold spammers and whether this will extend the longevity of the game. But these are all things that I’m going to take a wait and see attitude towards.

Galadriel: "Will you look into the mirror?"
Frodo: "What will I see?"
Galadriel: "Even the wisest cannot tell. For the mirror… shows many things…things that were… things that are… and some things…that have not yet come to pass."

It would be nice if we could all look into the mirror but we can’t so I think I’m going to choose to be optimistic and hope for the best out of all this, but as far as being a lifer in the new F2P system, I feel like I should be wearing a mask and carrying a sack over My should with the letters S.W.A.G. on it.

Yanic

[Tuin]

I never got the argument about how it supposedly takes so long to come up with "lore-appropriate" names. You don't have to research Middle Earth naming conventions to come up with a name that isn't obnoxiously out of place (like Iwillrobyou). As long as it sounds like something that could possibly fit then it's fine.

Ehra
Odlus
Bleth
Exalith
Drane
Thorgale

All of these are unique names I've come up with in the past, either specifically for LOTRO or in online games I've played before (Thorgale and Ehra are names that I've used since my very first MMO, back in Dark Age of Camelot). They all took under a minute of thinking about different sounds that not only sound good together but would also look good when typed out. And these are names that I never have to worry about being taken any time I visit a new game.


It's not too difficult, give it a try sometime

I've tried many times, I have made plenty of alts in my days, some of us are good with words, the use and creation, others of us are good with numbers. Yes if we all were creative enough to make up entirely fictitious names names wouldn't be an issue and we'd have a ton of people with original sounding names. My earlier toons I was able to make a great deal of use of the suggestion turbine has given in character creation, but within the last year I just gave up and gave my toons German names, they're meaning basically things like night-time, etc, I just hid their simplicity behind another language.

[Ehra]

I've tried many times, I have made plenty of alts in my days, some of us are good with words, the use and creation, others of us are good with numbers. Yes if we all were creative enough to make up entirely fictitious names names wouldn't be an issue and we'd have a ton of people with original sounding names. My earlier toons I was able to make a great deal of use of the suggestion turbine has given in character creation, but within the last year I just gave up and gave my toons German names, they're meaning basically things like night-time, etc, I just hid their simplicity behind another language.

Hm.... I wonder if I could start to sell my services sometime.

[gildhur]

Sorry, but I call BS that it's hard to find a name.

A very simple Sindarin name, Gladhwen, is only in use on 4 of the 11 servers, one of which is by me. Now a simpler version, Gladwen is taken on every server, and Gladwyn on 8, however Gladhwyn isn't taken anywhere.

Yes, it sucks that a TON of names are taken by characters who haven't signed on in years, but that doesn't mean you have to give up and resort to silliness instead.

[electricmulch]

Clearly one of us is wrong, time will tell, however my assuming the worst means I may just be pleasantly surprised when one day something Turbine says will happen actually tuns out the way they said: but I'm not holding my breath because in this context what they did in DDO already differs from what they're suggesting will happen in LoTR:O and right now I see no reason why they'll do something different in LoTR:O that was a success in DDO.

Most likely the results will lie somewhere in the middle. There will be, for virtually every item, some segment of the player base who will be upset that a particular item is in the store. You'll hear just as many types of complaints about trinkets and costumes and furniture as you will if they add Horses or XP potions. Not everyone is in the game for the same types of rewards. I suppose the only type of player I can think of they can't "harm" are explorers.

The question becomes: "Is this an enjoyment breaker for a large enough class of people we should not offer the item"

By and large, the answer should be no for anything not of a mechanical nature. Those can get touchy and tweaky. Solid beta should address balance and refresh time issues of items. Some thing will just be opinions. Should new players be able to plop down 1000TP and get a mount? Sure, let them have the same Bree Pony stats the Founders get.

*If* they get to the point where difficult gear to acquire ( or better than that gear ) is available, Faction Rep, or anything else that cannot be earned semi-quickly at about the same level goes into the store, they will lose credibility with me. Not so much because they said they wouldn't, but because I'll doubt their ability to keep the plates spinning on the sticks.

Convenience and Lore/Immersion enhancement (Your dwarf has a legendary sword and you'd rather it was a axe? Poof! Now it is an Axe) should be the focus. in my view. I *think* they understand that. I expect they will do their best to tow that line.

I feel why LotRO succeeds is because it isn't trying to be a WoW killer. It is a different sort of game and has a different sort of player base. The thing that sealed this for me was during the first festival that had horse races. Characters stood in line to take turns getting in the race. STOOD IN LINE. I *think* that being free won't largely change who is attracted and stays in the game for any length of time. Boorish brutes will get bored and leave decreasing the number of people trying to fast track the phat l00t. Without the fast power acquisition game players to earn from, Gold Farmers will have a limited market and will more likely ply their trade in games with a better return on investment.

It is a lot of assumptions, but it matches what I have seen in the game as a Founder who doesn't play enough to be so far from the free trial players to notice what they do.

Remember, 12 months ago they were saying that LoTR:O was so different from DDO that the F2P model had no place in it .. didn't quite turn out like that, did it?

If you are going to solely view any statement from the company as a thinly veiled lie at best, I sincerely doubt you will ever find satisfactions in the communications.

There are numerous other reasons things could have changed that aren't "They were lying."
Perhaps someone had that "AHA!" moment and sorted out exactly how they think it would work. Perhaps they decided the games weren't as a different as they believed on that level. Or maybe someone (new) further up the food chain said "I don't care if you think it won't work. Make it work." I work with intellectually dishonest people often enough to know that it isn't always malice or CYA, sometimes circumstances just changed and you have to look at each decision fully or it taints your ability to do your job well.

[Tuin]

Sorry, but I call BS that it's hard to find a name.

A very simple Sindarin name, Gladhwen, is only in use on 4 of the 11 servers, one of which is by me. Now a simpler version, Gladwen is taken on every server, and Gladwyn on 8, however Gladhwyn isn't taken anywhere.

Yes, it sucks that a TON of names are taken by characters who haven't signed on in years, but that doesn't mean you have to give up and resort to silliness instead.

I doubt some one rolling a dwarf is going to name the toon Gladwen, or Gladwyn. Not to mention how long did it take you to find this name and figure out which servers they're on? When I'm making a new toon I really don't want to spend a significant amount of time sifting through my.lotro.com trying to find a name I like and find appropriate for the class and race of the toon.