Negative rep a no no conversation?

[Ayrolen]

If a person gets so much angst from seeing a red box under their name and makes so much of a stink about it that the entire system needs to be revamped, I think the basic system itself has a problem.

[rawlingsst7]

OK now I'm confused. How else am I supposed to measure my worth as a human being?

Isn't it obvious?

[ ] Salary
[ ] Brand of car you drive
[ ] Flashiness of your cell phone
[ ] Number of Facebook friends
[ ] Attractiveness of your significant other
[x] Number of BG armor pieces on your main



Just throwing this out there, there ought to be a way to kick -rep hits upstairs to the community team for meta-moderation. It's far too easy for a clique of high-rep posters to gang up on someone, harrass them, and slam them with negative rep; all completely anonymously. If you really believe your post was undeserving of neg-rep because it was not "Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines" - you should be able to ultimately request an appeal.

Of course it could cut both ways, as you'd be drawing the attention of mods who could infract you if the post genuinely violated ToS/CoC.

[ararax2]

Then if that's its only use, then all visual display of rep should be removed. No red bubbles, no green bubbles. Everything will be internal and no one will know who has what.

We agree completely here.

[arinwulf]

Isn't it obvious?

[ ] Salary
[ ] Brand of car you drive
[ ] Flashiness of your cell phone
[ ] Number of Facebook friends
[ ] Attractiveness of your significant other
[x] Number of BG armor pieces on your main



Just throwing this out there, there ought to be a way to kick -rep hits upstairs to the community team for meta-moderation. It's far too easy for a clique of high-rep posters to gang up on someone, harrass them, and slam them with negative rep; all completely anonymously. If you really believe your post was undeserving of neg-rep because it was not "Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines" - you should be able to ultimately request an appeal.

Of course it could cut both ways, as you'd be drawing the attention of mods who could infract you if the post genuinely violated ToS/CoC.

The rep system is being used exactly that way. If you aren't in the happy happy joy joy Turbine club of posters and you post something that is not a screaming adoration of Turbine, you can rest assured that the neg rep truncheon will be used on you. The system is nothing more than vigilante in nature and it does NOTHING to promote community, unless that community be of people who demand you worship at the Turbine Cathedral.

It reminds me of the Inquisitor Squad that Umbridge formed in Hogwarts after she became the High Inquisitor.

We are ALL customers of Turbine and we ALL should have a say about the service we are PAYING for without having neg rep used against us.

[gildhur]

The rep system is being used exactly that way. If you aren't in the happy happy joy joy Turbine club of posters and you post something that is not a screaming adoration of Turbine, you can rest assured that the neg rep truncheon will be used on you. The system is nothing more than vigilante in nature and it does NOTHING to promote community, unless that community be of people who demand you worship at the Turbine Cathedral.

False. That many happen once in a while, but some of the most vocal and hyperbolic opponents of things in this game for the last two years have very high rep.

Exhibit A: http://forums.lotro.com/member.php?u=421959

QED.

[ararax2]

False. That many happen once in a while, but some of the most vocal and hyperbolic opponents of things in this game for the last two years have very high rep.

Exhibit A: http://forums.lotro.com/member.php?u=421959

QED.

There are many members of the church of roov. That proves nothing other then that roov is personally popular.

[Darej]

ok...so here we have a system first tried and tested on DDO where it was according to Turbine a resounding success....

here it seems to have failed.....

makes you wonder what other systems tried and tested and successful in DDO that might fail here........

[Dean340]

Isn't it obvious?

[ ] Salary
[ ] Brand of car you drive
[ ] Flashiness of your cell phone
[ ] Number of Facebook friends
[ ] Attractiveness of your significant other
[ ] Number of BG armor pieces on your main

oh, no...apparently, i'm totally worthless

[arinwulf]

False. That many happen once in a while, but some of the most vocal and hyperbolic opponents of things in this game for the last two years have very high rep.

Exhibit A: http://forums.lotro.com/member.php?u=421959

QED.

Hmm, saw nothing that proves anything other that some guy's profile and I'm not part of the mutual admiration society circle here, so if the player's name is supposed to mean anything to me, it doesn't.

[gildhur]

Hmm, saw nothing that proves anything other that some guy's profile and I'm not part of the mutual admiration society circle here, so if the player's name is supposed to mean anything to me, it doesn't.

Well, on an entirely different level that makes me feel better.

[Khafar]

The little green chiclets are pretty much a function of two things, IMO:

1. You post things that other people agree with or find funny, and
2. You post a lot, particularly in high-traffic forums.

That's it. Agreement varies. People who dislike LIs give you rep if you bash LIs in an effective manner, and people who like LIs will give you rep if you praise LIs in an effective manner.

My own rep goes up quickly whenever I post a lot, and flattens out almost completely when I don't - easily 95% of my bumps have come from posts I made in the previous day. The fact that I gave up on server and class forums over 2 years ago and pretty much only post in General and Suggestions helps.

Basically... they don't mean a whole lot IMO. I judge people on how and what they post, not on whether they have 6 green chiclets, 11 green chiclets, 1 red one, or none at all.

Khafar

[Nymphonic]

The rep system is being used exactly that way. If you aren't in the happy happy joy joy Turbine club of posters and you post something that is not a screaming adoration of Turbine, you can rest assured that the neg rep truncheon will be used on you. The system is nothing more than vigilante in nature and it does NOTHING to promote community, unless that community be of people who demand you worship at the Turbine Cathedral.

It reminds me of the Inquisitor Squad that Umbridge formed in Hogwarts after she became the High Inquisitor.

We are ALL customers of Turbine and we ALL should have a say about the service we are PAYING for without having neg rep used against us.

That Harry Potter reference is pretty accurate. I agree with your last sentence as long as no insults are flinging from both sides of the debate.

Wasn't that the book in the series where the Weasly twins made their grand exit? That was my favorite part of all seven books!

anyways, back to the subject. I like this post so much here's a rep point. Getting a neg rep just because you state your case is just bull.

[Kraggy]

Honestly, if someone wants to be a big enough tool that they get several red boxes, then they should be banned from the forums.
.

Because posting things the fanboys don't like and getting -repped for doing so is a reason to be prevented from saying what they think?

Really?

I know this is a private forum where 'natural justice' and the 'First Amendment' clearly don't apply, but the concept of 'free speech' surely hasn't been abandoned entirely? You're talking here about a rep system driven by the inner clique (some who in part farmed green pips off each other) being the sole reason for someone being banned.

Not because they broke any rules but dared to say something which Turbine's acolytes didn't like.

Really?

[Digital_Utopia]

Because posting things the fanboys don't like and getting -repped for doing so is a reason to be prevented from saying what they think?

Really?

I know this is a private forum where 'natural justice' and the 'First Amendment' clearly don't apply, but the concept of 'free speech' surely hasn't been abandoned entirely? You're talking here about a rep system driven by the inner clique (some who in part farmed green pips off each other) being the sole reason for someone being banned.

Not because they broke any rules but dared to say something which Turbine's acolytes didn't like.

Really?

There's one flaw in your train of thought.

the 'critics' strongly outnumber the 'fanboys', and there's a limit to how much rep you can give to a single person.

So if this was just a case about +rep to agree, -rep to disagree, then by that logic, the critics would be the ones with the high rep, giving negative rep to the fanboys.

Besides that, if you're giving any rep based on if you agree or disagree with the person, you're doing it wrong and giving negative rep to someone who doesn't warrant it can lead to disciplinary action for them.

Look around at those with red bars - you'll notice that it's not what they say, but how they say it that's gotten them to that point. It isn't a matter of censorship, it's a matter of encouraging rational discussion without flaming people, or sounding like a 5 year old that's overdue for a nap.

[ararax2]

Now onto someone who should have more rep.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=336905

Travisimo has been posting suggestions for new areas of the game amazingly well thought out, highly detailed, joyously described and a ton of fun to read.

Those are the type of posts that should really be recommended.

[Ayrolen]

Because posting things the fanboys don't like and getting -repped for doing so is a reason to be prevented from saying what they think?

Really?

Show me where I said anything about posting dissenting remarks towards Turbine and how all of the "fanboys" should -rep them? I couldn't care less what anyone says about Turbine, as long as they can say it in a calm and rational manner. Anyone "farming for negative rep" is clearly not just trying to give their opinion. They've either got diarrhea of the mouth or they're asking people to give them negative rep because they think it's cool. "ZOMG YOU FAIL TURBINE AND I'M QUITTING THE GAME B/C YOU SUCK!" is not the same as "I'm really disappointed in the direction this game has gone and I'm not sure I'll be renewing my subscription when the game goes F2P."

[Ayrolen]

Now onto someone who should have more rep.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=336905

Travisimo has been posting suggestions for new areas of the game amazingly well thought out, highly detailed, joyously described and a ton of fun to read.

Those are the type of posts that should really be recommended.

Thanks for the link. +rep to him.

[KainXI]

The little green chiclets are pretty much a function of two things, IMO:

1. You post things that other people agree with or find funny, and
2. You post a lot, particularly in high-traffic forums.

That's it. ]

OR you post guides and answer questions, where is where about half my rep came from

[Ayrolen]

OR you post guides and answer questions, where is where about half my rep came from

Exactly. I'm not going to lie that I've gotten some positive rep from some of the stupid lolcats and other pictures I've posted, but I've also gotten a TON from simply helping other posters out and answering questions. But it's much easier to believe that everyone with a high rep count got it from their fanboy buddies and this whole system is one big Turbine fanboy conspiracy, right? Because they'd definitely remove the -rep display and leave the positive if that were the case, RIGHT?

[Icefire]

I personally find the knee-jerk reaction to a statement that is supportive, affirmative, or otherwise in line with anything Turbine does as "fanboy" to be both silly and uninformed. The terms implies thoughtless or blind loyalty. It's similar to those who like to claim "dissent is patriotic:" When you're the dissenter, it's all well and good... but the same people get vitriolic when opposition to their view is offered.

How about being able to believe that thoughtful people can support a business decision without being sheep or blindly loyal. Not all critical thinking results in opposition. That's a point that I think most of us need to be reminded of (I know I do, from time to time).

[Blackadar]

Isn't this all much ado about nothing? There are ways to post your opinion about a subject, whether is be negative or positive, in a constructive fashion. If someone wants to give you negative rep because they don't like your opinion, you shouldn't really care. I've disagreed with Gildhur and others who might be considered part of the "elite" of the board, but they've never given me bad rep. It's because while we disagreed on a particular subject, we could state our disagreement in a respectful manner.

Of all the MMO communities I've been a part of, this is by far the most mature. I don't think the rep system has anything to do with it, but I also don't see it hurting the community. Those who have a bundle of negative rep typically deserve it. Those who have a bunch of positive rep have contributed positively to this community. As such, it's just a forum feature and nothing to be worried about.

Also...I wonder how much negative rep Sauron has?

[gildhur]

Also...I wonder how much negative rep Sauron has?

None. http://forums.lotro.com/member.php?u=150104

[romoen]

The only previous flaw I saw in this system is that Turbine Employees had a different rule-set and biased advantages when it came to reputation, but that has been handled.

If you are receiving -rep and feel it is unjustified you need to report it; not just complain about it. It is a CLEAR violation of the forum guidelines:

You may not abuse the Forums Reputation System. This includes posting requests for positive reputation or other means of “farming” reputation, targeting an individual or group for negative reputation, or any other means of artificially influencing your Reputation or another user’s.

There are a countless number of posters that have earned every bit of their reputation through various means of posting, but like I've said before I'm rather certain the large hits to -neg rep that people were seeing were from Turbine Staff and since that issue has been handled, you won't need to worry about that anymore.

[FutenCake]

Look around at those with red bars - you'll notice that it's not what they say, but how they say it that's gotten them to that point. It isn't a matter of censorship, it's a matter of encouraging rational discussion without flaming people, or sounding like a 5 year old that's overdue for a nap.

Yes, and no.

When I look at my feedback every post I have with Negative feedback also has 2 or more people also giving positive feedback.

Aside from one of my numerous pieces of negative feedback all of them have been because someone is disagreeing with me (the one exception was for making a joke that Endewaith was just a codeword for Microtransactions, make sure to use boys and girls..)

Granted, the people in red are usually just very inflammatory. But I can tell you from personal experience, you can also get Red feedback for simply stating your opinion.

My problem with this feedback system is that the best way to get positive feedback is to be silly, or entertaining. Then you have enough rep to give negative feedback.

I would really love this system to force you to give a reason for any Negative Feedback you give. Just a little note. If you get negative feedback, you don't know why, so you can't change whatever behavior it was that was netting you negative feedback.

[KainXI]

Yes, and no.

When I look at my feedback every post I have with Negative feedback also has 2 or more people also giving positive feedback.

Aside from one of my numerous pieces of negative feedback all of them have been because someone is disagreeing with me (the one exception was for making a joke that Endewaith was just a codeword for Microtransactions, make sure to use boys and girls..)

Granted, the people in red are usually just very inflammatory. But I can tell you from personal experience, you can also get Red feedback for simply stating your opinion.

My problem with this feedback system is that the best way to get positive feedback is to be silly, or entertaining. Then you have enough rep to give negative feedback.

I would really love this system to force you to give a reason for any Negative Feedback you give. Just a little note. If you get negative feedback, you don't know why, so you can't change whatever behavior it was that was netting you negative feedback.

That's really pathetic if people are giving you negative rep for stuff like that.