Lua UI Plugins in LOTRO

[Darej]

@ Narrel...

please oh please tell me this lua script will allow the interface skinners to change the mouse icon???

[Syce]

as long as there is no "Gearscore" addon then im happy

[FoxFire]

I'm gonna put my vote in for an Auctioneer-like Add-on.

[Trilwych]

as long as there is no "Gearscore" addon then im happy

User interface only, no Gearscore, good. Hopefully not down the road to meters, either. I'd like to see the LotRO auction house overhauled in itself, not reliant on addons, but that's not a huge thing...

The simple implementation is a very big step towards more universal usability, so thanks.

[Narrel]

@ Narrel...

please oh please tell me this lua script will allow the interface skinners to change the mouse icon???

Not right now I'm afraid but keep in mind our goal is to continue to grow the API in the future so I wouldn't rule that out for the future.

[Starrywisdom]

Second LUA is more akin to C code, and if you do any coding these days it's not in notepad but in a editor that uses color syntax highlighting and code formatting.

What is this? Maybe YOU don't - but even us employed in a 'coding' field still use it. I'm a software engineer by trade and do web design for the 'extra buck' and notepad is still the simplest thing to use for 'quick changes'. Color coding only helps with very very long syntax that has multiple changes throughout.

[wmerkens]

What is this? Maybe YOU don't - but even us employed in a 'coding' field still use it. I'm a software engineer by trade and do web design for the 'extra buck' and notepad is still the simplest thing to use for 'quick changes'. Color coding only helps with very very long syntax that has multiple changes throughout.

The original person was commenting on how to keep all the indents or brackets in code clean syntactically.

Phew...I'm a FORTRAN and Visual Basic programmer...all those languages that require punctuation drive me nuts! Counting brackets is for the birds.

Notepad might be good for a quick fix, but a more powerful editor will win hand's down in any coding, be it web or application code in whatever language you want to use.

In notepad++ I really like line folding for hiding function blocks that are distracting, I believe Vim will do the same and of course notepad cannot do that.

[Silverangel]

Not right now I'm afraid but keep in mind our goal is to continue to grow the API in the future so I wouldn't rule that out for the future.

It's nice to hear that alteration of the mouse pointer for more visibility is even a remote possibility. Thanks for posting.

[Kraggy]

Hopefully not down the road to meters, either.

What is CScript (or whatever it's name is) if it isn't a damage meter?

[Thoroval]

Not right now I'm afraid but keep in mind our goal is to continue to grow the API in the future so I wouldn't rule that out for the future.

This should be given a higher priority and I don't mean as part of LUA. Not everyone has perfect eyesight and that mouse pointer is way too easily lost on screen. A friend of mine tried LOTRO but left due to issues like this. Someone else I know struggles all the time with the mouse and other screen elements.

Quite honestly LOTRO is terrible at helping when it comes to folks who have less than perfect vision whether it's color blindness or small degrees of uncorrectable vision.

[Darej]

This should be given a higher priority and I don't mean as part of LUA. Not everyone has perfect eyesight and that mouse pointer is way too easily lost on screen. A friend of mine tried LOTRO but left due to issues like this. Someone else I know struggles all the time with the mouse and other screen elements.

Quite honestly LOTRO is terrible at helping when it comes to folks who have less than perfect vision whether it's color blindness or small degrees of uncorrectable vision.

QFT

@Narrel...is there anyway you all can bumo this up on the to-do list?

[cedwin]

Not right now I'm afraid but keep in mind our goal is to continue to grow the API in the future so I wouldn't rule that out for the future.

The mouse icon really should be a part of the skin. If nothing else at least let us change the color of it to something that stands out.

Something like the dice drop down over in DDO.

Mouse Icon: Default, Red, Yellow, Green, Neon Purple, etc.

[Darej]

The mouse icon really should be a part of the skin. If nothing else at least let us change the color of it to something that stands out.

Something like the dice drop down over in DDO.

Mouse Icon: Default, Red, Yellow, Green, Neon Purple, etc.

aye..would be awesome to reskin it to match the various themse out there...

heck id be satisfied being able to make it a color you would not normally see in game.

[Grampsaz]

Not right now I'm afraid but keep in mind our goal is to continue to grow the API in the future so I wouldn't rule that out for the future.

Can we change the size and/or color of it?

I've been asking about this since SoA beta and it would be awesome if this was made to happen at some point.


Thx

[johnflesh]

I'm cautiously excited about LUA coming to LOTRO, but I had to comment on the above quote.

Macro != Bot

Anyone who has used macros in WoW knows full well that:

• You can't use WoW macros to create a bot (that takes more sophisticated software)
• Every single macro "will still require human interaction to use", aka a key press/mouse click

I don't believe that /assist, the idea of having a /focus target, or the ability to choose the rank of heal cast based on whether Shift is being held down (man that would save me so much Quickslot room!) is gamebreaking. I can't even make simple RP emotes that I could in WoW!

Actually there is a somewhat healthy outbreak of botters in battlegrounds recently emerged and stated as using sophisticated macros. One youtube video points out this fact point by point through visual experimentation with a known botter. The bot /follows then /targets then /asserts faction, and then /determines outcome - all while following a path in a huge circle around the battleground. These macros are so well thought out that it was virtually impossible for the tester/guy showing us people exploiting, that he couldn't even lose the bots as ghosts. He was a stealth character too, and the bot still picked him up.

Macros are not gamebreaking and aren't bots. I think Blizzard did an admirable job in making a macro system worth using while limiting it so it didn't result in Bad Things(tm). I wish Turbine would take things beyond the extremely limited functionality they currently have.

(The reason I say I'm cautiously excited about LUA in LOTRO is because I've experienced first hand how mods like Auctioneer can adversely affect the economy. There are some mods that I don't want to see in LOTRO.)

As long as there is a proper limit on the depth LUA can reach beyond UI, there should be no issue of botting or LUA exploitation. As of the past 5-6 months, WoW has shown that it can be done and in one youtube video, of a 10 v 10 match of WSG, 5 bots were discovered by this druid. So its getting worse.

[Thoroval]

Actually there is a somewhat healthy outbreak of botters in battlegrounds recently emerged and stated as using sophisticated macros. One youtube video points out this fact point by point through visual experimentation with a known botter. The bot /follows then /targets then /asserts faction, and then /determines outcome - all while following a path in a huge circle around the battleground. These macros are so well thought out that it was virtually impossible for the tester/guy showing us people exploiting, that he couldn't even lose the bots as ghosts. He was a stealth character too, and the bot still picked him up.



As long as there is a proper limit on the depth LUA can reach beyond UI, there should be no issue of botting or LUA exploitation. As of the past 5-6 months, WoW has shown that it can be done and in one youtube video, of a 10 v 10 match of WSG, 5 bots were discovered by this druid. So its getting worse.

If true, and I don't doubt you (I haven't played WoW in over a year) then Blizzard needs to close the loopholes. I'm sure they will. I find it interesting that it's taken folks this long to come up with these macros though. It apparently isn't easy and they're probably exploiting flaws in the system.

It appears (I don't know for sure) that Turbine is being pretty conservative and cautious with LUA. From what I've heard regarding their past experience with AC bots, I'm not surprised that they're being cautious. I applaud them for their caution. I don't want bots and I don't want gamebreaking mods.

All I'm asking for is the same approach with a decent macro system. Sure, there's some risk and they'll need to keep an eye on things. But there's risk to me every time I drive down the road. Some idiot may run a red light and t-bone me. That doesn't mean I sit at home in fear. I drive defensively and with necessary caution. When it comes to macros, Turbine is just sitting at home.

[Wilredoc]

I'd just love to be able to surface the clock (I tend to stay up WAY too late) or perhaps a better indicator for who is talking in group.
I think this may be a nice benefit once implemented.

[Fredelas]

I'd just love to be able to surface the clock (I tend to stay up WAY too late) or perhaps a better indicator for who is talking in group.
I think this may be a nice benefit once implemented.

Front what has already been announced in this thread, I think you will find that both of these should be easily accomplished if Lua scripting is included in the final release. It sounds like authors may be working on these kinds of data presentation plugins already.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

The snippet you show can be done without white space

local i = 1
while a[i] do
print(a[i])
i = i + 1
end

Will work but is not pretty, remember that white space in this language is a lot like C code and is for human readability.

Another thing to remember is that LUA, in the way WoW uses it and I suspect that LOTRO will use it, is not a compiled language and it behaves just like a shell script would in Bash for example. It is why when you look at addons in WoW (The code) you tend to have all functions at the top.

Indentation is what usually will screw up a C/C++ coder who starts to learn Python.

C and other languages that use ';' for the end of code lines, it is used by the compiler when it turns the code into object form. C for example will strip out all white space the is not explicitly inside quotes or () before it does starts to actually compile the code.

EDIT: One quick note, the ';' can be used like in C but is optional. Just checked the LUA Manual.

Yes, but his is far more readable.

[tim]

I have no problem with the idea, as long as it is available through the game, and not an add on as I used in AC. I must say though the add ons in AC were well done for the most part, and even some of the Kin bots were very useful. I am apposed to the automated ones that allow you to kill while not at the key board.

[Digital_Utopia]

Second LUA is more akin to C code, and if you do any coding these days it's not in notepad but in a editor that uses color syntax highlighting and code formatting.

akin to C? in which way? Even JavaScript is more like C in syntax, structure and operators than Lua is. If anything Lua is closer to older "acronym soup" languages.

[Bradd]

Will plugins like grid and clique (from WoW) be available?

[Starrywisdom]

If true, and I don't doubt you (I haven't played WoW in over a year) then Blizzard needs to close the loopholes. I'm sure they will. I find it interesting that it's taken folks this long to come up with these macros though. It apparently isn't easy and they're probably exploiting flaws in the system.

Actually they have been around for ages, they are just becoming more widespread. You can by various 'tools' such as macros/bots/etc for quite a bit of money from varying wesbites, most of these 'tools' stay pretty secret and the common gamer won't know the difference.

Tons of games have issues like this, and it takes a very long time for remedies to be found as it takes a while till the tools become mainstream enough to draw attention(usually by someone by the 'tool' and distributing it to kinmates,friends, etc rather then keeping it to themselves[like the tool creator says to]. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple 3rd party tools for LoTRO that people don't know about(Mining/Foresting bots, fishing bots, etc). I think the only common known bot in existence for LOTRO now is the PvMP multiaccount botter.

Until more people get their hands on tools they will stay relatively hidden, but it doesn't take long after a games release(usually first 3 months) for their to be rudimentary tools out there to circumvent game technology.

akin to C? in which way? Even JavaScript is more like C in syntax, structure and operators than Lua is. If anything Lua is closer to older "acronym soup" languages.

I wouldn't bother trying to argue with him - I don't think he's got certifications in any languages or technologies. The way he speaks makes it sound more 'script-kiddie' then anything else.

[Digital_Utopia]

Actually they have been around for ages, they are just becoming more widespread. You can by various 'tools' such as macros/bots/etc for quite a bit of money from varying wesbites, most of these 'tools' stay pretty secret and the common gamer won't know the difference.

Tons of games have issues like this, and it takes a very long time for remedies to be found as it takes a while till the tools become mainstream enough to draw attention(usually by someone by the 'tool' and distributing it to kinmates,friends, etc rather then keeping it to themselves[like the tool creator says to]. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple 3rd party tools for LoTRO that people don't know about(Mining/Foresting bots, fishing bots, etc). I think the only common known bot in existence for LOTRO now is the PvMP multiaccount botter.

Until more people get their hands on tools they will stay relatively hidden, but it doesn't take long after a games release(usually first 3 months) for their to be rudimentary tools out there to circumvent game technology.

I wouldn't doubt it - LotRO is no different than any other Windows game using DirectX/DirectInput.

I wouldn't bother trying to argue with him - I don't think he's got certifications in any languages or technologies. The way he speaks makes it sound more 'script-kiddie' then anything else.

well, it wouldn't come as much of a surprise - he did sound like he was making some interesting assumptions, but it was more curiosity than actually trying to argue.

[wmerkens]

I wouldn't doubt it - LotRO is no different than any other Windows game using DirectX/DirectInput.



well, it wouldn't come as much of a surprise - he did sound like he was making some interesting assumptions, but it was more curiosity than actually trying to argue.

Who Me?

If your referring to my referring to LUA as being having a C language flavor, to me it looked a lot like the flow of C in a bash like shell scripting layout. For me one look and I could figure out the flow of the code, but I do not program addons I just occasionally feel need to fix something and it was easy to figure a lot of it out.

I was also simply answering the question about whether indentations were needed, in that sense I was showing just like C white space was not needed but was there to make code readable.


I have to laugh at being referred to as a script kiddie, I began programming back in 1981 with applesoft/commodore pet basic, the IBM PC did not exist for me yet. I got my start in C with Borland C 1.0 probably about mid 80's and at school no one was teaching anything but basic or pascal.

So I predate script kiddies by a long shot, predate certifications by a long shot but I guess that just makes me old by a long shot. hehe :-)