Turtle problems

[Master1213]

I am a member of a group that has hunted turtles every Tuesday for two months. Sometimes we lost, but nothing like tonight. The turtle still had 400,000 morale when we were all dead. As the group healer, I had never had to deal with morale dropping so fast on the part of fellow fighters.

This was unreal.

Apparently it is possible with a very good tank some potent heals and about 4-5 burgs....however considering this is a level 60 instance I think its faily obvious that this is a bug.

[Raskolnikov]

How interesting...both the tank DoT and the group DoT are off by a factor of 4.5.

The tank DoT used to start at 250 and now starts at 1125:
1125/250 = 4.5

The group DoT used to start at 80 and now starts at 360:
360/80 = 4.5

Ouch.

Not sure what that means, but it is very consistent. I wonder if that works for the BO eyes as well.

Precisely! Though for the Blind One and Zholuga it's only a modifier of 4.1 . This should be fixed in an upcoming patch.

The root cause of this was actually my fixes to the Lore-master & Burglar debuffs. Those changes had the potential to affect every mob in the game, and I was hoping that any of these types of edge cases would've popped up in Beta, but I'm glad you guys spotted them so quickly on Live.

[Tobiasfrost]

The root cause of this was actually my fixes to the Lore-master & Burglar debuffs. Those changes had the potential to affect every mob in the game, and I was hoping that any of these types of edge cases would've popped up in Beta, but I'm glad you guys spotted them so quickly on Live.

Hi Raskolnikov, thanks for the update. I had heard some people mention the turtle and blind one problems, but I don't raid much at the moment so hadn't experienced it myself. The other night, however, I did a Fellowship run of Barrow-downs Survival. At one point we had a lieutenant spawn, that's actually a pair of mobs. I forget the exact name, but what they do is put an eye over a player's head, similar to in the Barad Guldur raid. I hadn't fought these before, or in a long time if ever, but others in my team said that if you are near the person with the eye when its timer goes off, you get hit for around half your morale.

It hit me for over 13,000 damage. The first eye wiped out 3 of the team, then the tank got an eye, followed by the healer last (we only had 5 people).

Sounds like this is part of the same bug, and just wanted to be sure it's known.

[jhwort]

Precisely! Though for the Blind One and Zholuga it's only a modifier of 4.1 . This should be fixed in an upcoming patch.

The root cause of this was actually my fixes to the Lore-master & Burglar debuffs. Those changes had the potential to affect every mob in the game, and I was hoping that any of these types of edge cases would've popped up in Beta, but I'm glad you guys spotted them so quickly on Live.

Thanks Rask. Is this also the reason for the large increase to the beast's breath damage in BG? That jumped from ~1200 to 2700ish.

[Wibs]

Precisely! Though for the Blind One and Zholuga it's only a modifier of 4.1 . This should be fixed in an upcoming patch.

The root cause of this was actually my fixes to the Lore-master & Burglar debuffs. Those changes had the potential to affect every mob in the game, and I was hoping that any of these types of edge cases would've popped up in Beta, but I'm glad you guys spotted them so quickly on Live.

Thanks for the info, but are you saying that you relied on the beta to find any issues with a change that could affect EVERY mob in the game? Shouldn't your QA department run through each instance at least once after a change like this?
Tbh, I'm pretty shocked at how many instances are clearly broken in this release, the mobs falling through floors bug was repeatedly reported during Beta and it looks like the only instance this was fixed in was BG. And now it seems multiple instances have mobs doing silly amounts of damage when 1 run through by a decent QA team would/should have found them

[Raskolnikov]

Hi Raskolnikov, thanks for the update. I had heard some people mention the turtle and blind one problems, but I don't raid much at the moment so hadn't experienced it myself. The other night, however, I did a Fellowship run of Barrow-downs Survival. At one point we had a lieutenant spawn, that's actually a pair of mobs. I forget the exact name, but what they do is put an eye over a player's head, similar to in the Barad Guldur raid. I hadn't fought these before, or in a long time if ever, but others in my team said that if you are near the person with the eye when its timer goes off, you get hit for around half your morale.

It hit me for over 13,000 damage. The first eye wiped out 3 of the team, then the tank got an eye, followed by the healer last (we only had 5 people).

Sounds like this is part of the same bug, and just wanted to be sure it's known.

Thank you for posting this! This is another repercussion of my changes, but requires a different solution than the Turtle and Blind One.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

Precisely! Though for the Blind One and Zholuga it's only a modifier of 4.1 . This should be fixed in an upcoming patch.

The root cause of this was actually my fixes to the Lore-master & Burglar debuffs. Those changes had the potential to affect every mob in the game, and I was hoping that any of these types of edge cases would've popped up in Beta, but I'm glad you guys spotted them so quickly on Live.

Thanks for the update Ras. Looking forward to the patch. Also, some food for thought for future Betas...

The Turtle and Blind One are older content. Unless people have a reason to go test them people are going to be pretty unlikely to wander in and check these mobs. The Blind One especially so as he is deep in DN. It's simply not worth the time just to see if there's a mysterious, unintended Butterfly Effect. If you (or anyone) are making changes that could have ripple effects across the entire system just let us know ok? If anyone had said "As part of the fix to debuffs I've changed the way monsters calculate their damage. Can you people check these raids and make sure things are behaving?" people would have been all over it. People went in BG the first week I was in Beta to see of LM and Burglar debuffs were working properly. They were excited to see how the changes worked. A quick blip to point them elsewhere and they'd have caught these problems. You can walk in to the Turtle fight with 4 people and last more than long enough to see the problems with the DOTs...all we'd need is a reason to do so.

I know you can't reveal too much about what's happening under the hood to Beta testers. I know the general consensus is that we should play 'normally' and figure things out for ourselves to see how things operate during normal game play. Sometimes less is just less though...share a little more and we would have a better idea what we need to check to make sure things are working as expected. "The changes I made had the potential to effect every mob in the game" is a phrase that would have been good to hear in Beta.

I enjoy the testing process but I'd enjoy it a lot more if I didn't feel quite so in the dark this last time around.

PS: Passing out full armor sets for whatever new raid content or scaled instances is being created would be a good idea too. Do it the last week of Beta when things are winding down and you'll give everyone a chance to check for broken set bonuses without imbalancing anything during the testing. There were broken set bonuses when BG gear was released, and there's broken set bonuses in the Helegrod sets. Both could have been caught much earlier by simply handing out a few sets for testing.

[Dean340]

I know you can't reveal too much about what's happening under the hood to Beta testers. I know the general consensus is that we should play 'normally' and figure things out for ourselves to see how things operate during normal game play. Sometimes less is just less though...share a little more and we would have a better idea what we need to check to make sure things are working as expected. "The changes I made had the potential to effect every mob in the game" is a phrase that would have been good to hear in Beta.

I enjoy the testing process but I'd enjoy it a lot more if I didn't feel quite so in the dark this last time around.

PS: Passing out full armor sets for whatever new raid content or scaled instances is being created would be a good idea too. Do it the last week of Beta when things are winding down and you'll give everyone a chance to check for broken set bonuses without imbalancing anything during the testing. There were broken set bonuses when BG gear was released, and there's broken set bonuses in the Helegrod sets. Both could have been caught much earlier by simply handing out a few sets for testing.

hopefully, Turbine will get the old Isengard program up and running again.
those testers would/should be able to catch these kinds of issues before it goes to beta or live.

[rawlingsst7]

Thank you for posting this! This is another repercussion of my changes, but requires a different solution than the Turtle and Blind One.

Is there anything that we should specifically look for to see if this is more widespread? Mobs with big tactical attacks? Large dots? Distributed damage? Damage reflects like Gurvand?

Balrog poison/disease? BG Fellbeast breath? LT purple eye pulses? DN/Istum worm explosions? DN/Troll Boss Acid Pools?

[SnowyWolf]

I was insta-gibbed (read dead in one attack) twice last night. It was a little shocking, but until I read this thread I didnt really think about it too much. Perhaps this is important information for you.

65 Loremaster running Volume II, Book 5, Chapter 5: Battle for the 21st Hall. During the final boss fight in the "Pulpum Attacking" stage, the troll Ish hit me for 4041 Common damage in one hit. That seems... a little high. I had taken 1 hit previous to that, and as such instantly died.

63 Captain running Library at Tham Mírdain, Commander Unudhu hit me for 1050 Common damage 5 times in a row (no variance in each attack, they were all identical). He was nearly dead, everyone was at full health, and I am instantly looking at a Retreat window. It was apparently an AE, because the 65 LM and 65 Guardian took a small amount of damage.

[Raskolnikov]

Thanks for the update Ras. Looking forward to the patch. Also, some food for thought for future Betas...

The Turtle and Blind One are older content. Unless people have a reason to go test them people are going to be pretty unlikely to wander in and check these mobs. The Blind One especially so as he is deep in DN. It's simply not worth the time just to see if there's a mysterious, unintended Butterfly Effect. If you (or anyone) are making changes that could have ripple effects across the entire system just let us know ok? If anyone had said "As part of the fix to debuffs I've changed the way monsters calculate their damage. Can you people check these raids and make sure things are behaving?" people would have been all over it. People went in BG the first week I was in Beta to see of LM and Burglar debuffs were working properly. They were excited to see how the changes worked. A quick blip to point them elsewhere and they'd have caught these problems. You can walk in to the Turtle fight with 4 people and last more than long enough to see the problems with the DOTs...all we'd need is a reason to do so.

I know you can't reveal too much about what's happening under the hood to Beta testers. I know the general consensus is that we should play 'normally' and figure things out for ourselves to see how things operate during normal game play. Sometimes less is just less though...share a little more and we would have a better idea what we need to check to make sure things are working as expected. "The changes I made had the potential to effect every mob in the game" is a phrase that would have been good to hear in Beta.

I enjoy the testing process but I'd enjoy it a lot more if I didn't feel quite so in the dark this last time around.

You make a very good point, thank you!

[Bauduco]

You make a very good point, thank you!

Raskolnikov,

On BG, the Fail-beast's AoE breath attack and the Purple eye are hitting harder. Is this WAI or part of this bug?
More info on http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...news-(spoilers)

Edit: Thievery and Mischief apparently is having the same bug
More on: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...appears-bugged
And thanks for the support Rhino!

[Rhino-Man]

Rask - I hope you are still monitoring this thread - apparently there are similar damage issues with LT and Fell Beast; and Flagit if it hasn't been mentioned before?

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...news-(spoilers)


EDIT: LOL, Bauduco beat me to it....

[Raskolnikov]

Raskolnikov,

On BG, the Fail-beast's AoE breath attack and the Purple eye are hitting harder. Is this WAI or part of this bug?
More info on http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...news-(spoilers)

Yes, the Fell-beast's AOE breath attack is part of this bug. The first wave of fixes for these issues includes the Turtle Raid and the Blind One & Zholuga in Dar Narbugud.

[Amphoras]

Yes, the Fell-beast's AOE breath attack is part of this bug. The first wave of fixes for these issues includes the Turtle Raid and the Blind One & Zholuga in Dar Narbugud.

Any idea of a timescale for these being fixed?

[ofMiceandHobbits]

Dungeons of Dol Guildor eyes are also bugged.....

The Warden will one shot elves even if they are grouped up at times. His eye seems to hit for ~7-8k distributed now.

[aleczander]

buggy stuff..
then..
63 Captain running Library at Tham Mírdain, Commander Unudhu hit me for 1050 Common damage 5 times in a row (no variance in each attack, they were all identical). He was nearly dead, everyone was at full health, and I am instantly looking at a Retreat window. It was apparently an AE, because the 65 LM and 65 Guardian took a small amount of damage.

The AOE done by Unudhu is probably WAI, IMO. I notice the text at about 25k morale: "now that i have you close, It's time to <do something bad to you>"
Sorry, couldn't remember exact wording, but basically you just need to get away from him for 10 seconds. He'll stand still doing his big AOE, and you just wait for the "waves" to finish, then resume the spanking.

[Mike8472]

Can a Dev comfirm that durchest in BG is bugged with his damage output. He is now hitting alot harder by a factor of 300% in some cases 1 shoting people with critical devastes, mainly on the hard mode adds.

It has now been reported by multiple raiding kins that durchest is in fact hitting harder then he was and is probably linked to the other bosses who are hitting alot harder through out lotro.

Prior to F2P durchest normaly critical devasted me for 3k, now its 4.2k and has high as 7.5k that I have seen. I have heard reports of 9k hits from others.

Fighting durchest is now a game of lucky as no healers can heal through 7.5k-9k devasted if your unlucky. We had 5 main healers 2 minis and 3 rks and was not enough to keep everyone alive.

[Wibs]

Any idea of a timescale for these being fixed?

From past experience, I'd say December at the earliest And sadly, as everyday goes by it seems more and more instances are found to be badly affected by this bug.

Is there ANY endgame instance that isn't bugged in same way?

BTW, I play in Europe and many of us there are now glad we don't have F2P yet because this must be the most bugged release yet........

[Wibs]

Yes, the Fell-beast's AOE breath attack is part of this bug. The first wave of fixes for these issues includes the Turtle Raid and the Blind One & Zholuga in Dar Narbugud.

So we're only going to get a few fixes at a time? From comments made in the DevChat there will be only one patch update this year, do we have to wait for that for these fixes or will they go in a smaller hotfix soon? Or do we have to wait something like 6 months to get all these mobs fixed? If players knew that fixing LM/Burg debuffs would break so much I'm sure they'd rather have broken skills.

This is just more proof that Turbine/WB management don't give a *!#$ about endgame players. If there was any real care for endgame players, then this issue (and other endgame instance bugs) would have a sensible amount resources given to it to find all mobs affected, but it's clear from your comments that you're left to deal with it by yourself and relying on customers to find each individual case of this.

[Lestache]

Yes, the Fell-beast's AOE breath attack is part of this bug. The first wave of fixes for these issues includes the Turtle Raid and the Blind One & Zholuga in Dar Narbugud.

Glad to hear that you're fixing some things, but I wonder why under-level content is getting fixed first.

I honestly don't care, since we can still clear BG HMs, but I am curious as to why level 60 content is being focused on instead of level 65 content.

Actually, I like this decision - the Fell-Beast's stronger breath attack makes the fight a bit tougher, at least.