Things Seem to be Getting out of Hand

[Synther]

I am as big a fanboy as there is. Been with this game since 2006. I will not "rage quit" nor am I making "demands."

These are my observations on Landroval.

Since 2006 I have, when they are here, had my little grand kids sit with me playing the game...the girl is now 7 and the boy is now 10. Both have asked me to teach them the game (something I will no longer consider).

They have loved watching the game and I have had them chat with my kin and had them "play the game." I have never, ever, ever, had any hesitation having them with me as I played.

This weekend, however, I was afk. My little grandsone went into my office and was watching the game, observing the chat. When I walked in, my emotional, gut instinct was "Oh No! What has he seen!" And to head off criticism, I will turn the game off from now on when they or any other minor children are around.

In the past, this would never have been my emotional response. And this, along with chat today in glff, caused me to post this.

Things are getting out of hand. I know the GMs are doing their best, but at this point, but things are getting out of control in this game.

In the last three days I have seen multiple references to male anatomy, both the vulgar term and the anatomic term.

I have seen references to various sexual acts.

I have seen certain groups attacked.

I have seen the vulgar term for intercourse multiple times.

I have seen a discussion about the origins of the vulgar term for intercourse.

I have seen people asking folks to tone it down being mocked in chat.

I have seen people who use the most vulgar or terms, after being reported, stay in the game and not, apparently, being subject to a sanction.

These are my observations. Feel free to disagree.

Turbine, just my opinion.

Profanity filter. Turn it on. Problem solved.

[Laretes]

OP: You may want to leave the happy little bubble that you live in. Welcome to the world!

Or did you think that your children won't ever hear a vulgar expression in their life until they are 16 and are 'able to handle it' (and become underage pregnant or father)?

[BellusDuFenna]

I have to say I've been ignoring the public chat channels for the most part, just tuning it out as I play or record videos. Unfortunately, While encoding one of my most recent videos, I noticed the chat box visible during a certain scene (I was doing an episode on the Auction House, so I didn't hide the UI like usual), and at that point I made an effort to make sure there was nothing nasty displayed therein.

Shouldn't have to do that, and it bothered me that I had to react that way.

Sad times.

[Shadowmoon]

Maybe I can give you guys a different view point to the game. I played beta and then three months before stopping and then started up again right before F2P.


In the beginning the game was pack full and chat had tons of nasty talk which over the three months I played died down a bit.

When I came back before F2P many of the servers were kind of empty and had small communities. Still was some nasty chat.....Some folk just have to play Tooks and we all know how odd those hobbits are.

When it went F2P it felt to me just like it did when the game was released. New zones are packed and some players are just not nice.


My advice for rude and nasty people is report, report and report. Don't go overboard but the really nasty players need to be banned. The problem is trolls can get back in game by creating another F2P account but they will get tired of losing characters and redoing the starter areas.

[Calabar]

People, please, PLEASE, get out of these mystical golden days that never existed. I've played on Landy since 2007 and I have seen all sorts of things go down, and don't get me started on global LFF, which is used for anything but. We have always had cretins, we have always had jerks, and we have always had the less desirables making themselves heard. In fact, the only attitude switch I see as a significant change is VIP elitists who think they own the game.

Here we go. F2P = evil. No long-term subs ever behaved that way they are all paragons of virtue and they're certainly not behaving that way now with their elitist attitudes. Wow I wish I was a lifetime sub how I would be elevated to sainthood, oh, if only *weeps*.

I can only make observations based upon my own personal experience. I have two accounts, no family and I have spent a lot of time in LOTRO over the past couple of years. During that time I never encountered any kind of bad behavior in chat. Yes, some people used Advice for long conversations that better belonged in OOC, but they were about things like television shows and not anything bad. Granted, I don't PvP and I've never used the global LFF channel so perhaps I wasn't exposed to all the variety of chat the game contained. Be that as it may, I never once felt the need to report anyone or add anyone to my ignore list. Does that qualify the past two and a half years as "mystical golden days"? Compared to what I've seen since F2P launched, I guess they do. People can claim those days didn't exist all they want, but they did for me.

I still don't PvP and I still don't use the global LFF channel, but I have to put people on ignore almost every time I log in and that's just for profanity. There's far too much general bad behavior to try to use ignore for it. It's just too overwhelming. Just last night, as an example, someone on Crickhollow asked what traits he should use for a tank. This new player was told that if he couldn't figure it out he should go play a different game. I have never in over two years seen someone's question responded to in that manner. I, politely, called the person out for being rude and tried to offer some advice to the original question. And a couple of other players responded in kind. But that's the kind of chat behavior that's become the norm in the starter areas and before F2P that was not the case. So yes, the game has most definitely changed. I can no longer in good conscious tell friends that LOTRO has an outstanding community and I used to be able to without hesitation.

I don't think any of us are claiming that everyone who's come in via F2P is a bad apple. In fact I grouped up with one player who's come over from SWG and has bought a subscription after starting as F2P who I feel will be an outstanding addition to the community. But the bad apples that are swarming the game are leaving a bad taste in the mouths of everyone around them. In other words, it doesn't take very much oil poured into a tub of water to pollute the entire thing.

I expect players have experienced varying degrees of this behavior depending on their server, the hours they play and how often they are in the starter zones. I've been playing on Crickhollow, where everyone started at first level, and I've started four characters there, levels 37, 23, 22 and 15. So I've basically been at ground zero every since F2P was released. If I'd been playing my level 65 characters on my home server I expect I wouldn't be nearly as discouraged by the changes to the general chat channels as I currently am. There are times when the chat channels are calm and what chat does pop up is friendly and helpful. But those times have been in the minority when I've been playing. Hopefully they'll eventually become the majority.

[Shadowmoon]

Honestly, the only real difference is the sort of stuff that used to be in GLFF is now in public channels. Because the new people don't know about GLFF.

Before, you could just avoid it by not ever using GLFF (I tried it once and left immediately). Now it's admittedly not so easy. But the alternative was literally no one ever talking in public. At least on Landroval, which is like one of those gated communities or private clubs, they don't want to do with you unless you are a member.

Now you do have to put up with some annoyances, but a liberal use of the ignore function takes care of that. On the plus side, it's just great to see people talking and in many cases, helping each other. That is something that had sadly been missing from this game for years.

Trying to ignore them isn't going to solve the problem and long term makes it worst. If you let them be nasty in the chat channels then it will spread to most of the new players who will see this garbage and think thats the way it is here.

If you want a good community you have to be involved with it. That means setting good examples and reporting people that break the rules. Ignoring these folk just lets them set the bad example to the other new players joining in.

[BellusDuFenna]

My advice for rude and nasty people is report, report and report. Don't go overboard but the really nasty players need to be banned. The problem is trolls can get back in game by creating another F2P account but they will get tired of losing characters and redoing the starter areas.

Quoted For Truth.

Like I said before, I tend to tune out the chat channels when I'm in-game. But if I were to notice someone being particularly hostile or rude in chat, I'd send in a report about it, after asking them to play nice with others. I don't care if they are new players or old, there is simply no call for that sort of behavior in this game.

Period.

End of story.

[biog33k]

VIP elitists who think they own the game.

I bought it, I do own it.

[Livejazz]

I really don't know how I seem to miss all this terrible F2P evil and wrongdoing. I shall pay more attention next time.

I've turned my Regional, Advice, & OOC channels back on, on Imladris. I'm not seeing any of this terri-bad F2P evil, either.

In fact, I actually thought it was worse 2 years ago, when I was a subscriber. I remember a convo in Breeland that got so bad a GM showed up to tell people to use /report, instead of responding & arguing with the foul-mouthed cretin. I remember the constant Gold Spam in Bree -- I haven't seen even one since coming back. I think things are much better now, than they were back then.

[Adroc]

I think that the OP is a liar and provocator. I rarely see any chat going on at all, not to mention mentioned violations.

And for "old-timers" here: don;t forget that you've been scarying away new people for all those years with your attitude, had brought the game on its knees and now brazen enough to continue your ridiculous behaviour. Ridiculous and unwise.

I'm on Landroval and Windfola leveling new characters to earn some TP for costumes. I see the chat the OP is talking about every single day. Just because YOU think it isn't happening won't change the fact that it is.

[Livejazz]

Trying to ignore them isn't going to solve the problem and long term makes it worst.

Ignoring profane vile-spewers solves the problem FOR ME quite nicely.

[Adroc]

But in all honesty I agree with people above, free speech is part of America and most online gaming.. if this bothers you don't play, or turn off chat. Honestly though your kids/grandkids(whatever) will at some point witness this whether watching movies, playing games, or just going to school.

Free Speech has it's limits also. Did you know for example that at Disney World, if you're standing in the lobby of one of our resorts cursing and we ask you to stop, that we can (and frequently do) have Orange County come out and arrest you? Nothing you can do about it either, private property. Ten years ago in Orlando a man was barking out profanities at a public boat dock because he was having trouble launching his boat. A family near by called Orange County and he was arrested, tried, and convicted. The general US population seems to be very uneducated in terms of "Free Speech". Free speech didn't protect the person who got on the intercom at Walmart and asked all ______ to leave the building.

[GV-Tanith]

I'm on Landroval and Windfola leveling new characters to earn some TP for costumes. I see the chat the OP is talking about every single day. Just because YOU think it isn't happening won't change the fact that it is.

In which channels on Windy is this taking place? I normally have glff open and while I see the PvmP'ers needling each other, I rarely see it getting excessive or indeed anywhere near the levels being described here. Am I blind?

[stargazer2009]

to the OP,


simply don't allow the kids near the comp when you decide to play. i know the vulgarity on brandywine is really bad. its always been bad. its not worse either since ftp. its the same. i have seen some really good players terrorized in the game, and nothing was done about it either. as a matter of fact, some of what they did to some players was illegal. it was reported and nothing was done about it. there truly needs to be more control over the chat from gm's. more serious enforcement of the agreement people sign when they join. the internet is not a place for anyone under the age of teen years. one thing you can do is set parental controls if you feel you must. if not, simply play when the kids are not around. report any behavior that is threatening, vulgar (against the agreement) stalking, etc. don't hesitate to make multiple reports. the game is exactly that, a game. and if people are not respecting the agreement then they should not be on the game because they ruin for good folk who simply like to play and have fun. as i said in a different post, that turbine should ban players for good who keep violating the user agreement by banning them via their mac address. that way, they cannot re sign up, at least on that computer. while it may not solve the problem for good, at least it will help weed the undesirables out. your post title, things are getting out of hand is 100% correct.
but sadly, turbine is huge, and they would have to employ people 24/7 to really crack down on the abuse. maybe they should. i think they can afford it. it'd make for a better gaming experience for everyone.

[kerryak]

IMO, it doesn't matter what's going on in GLFF or OOC or Regional, the risk that some hornball wants to bone hot female toons is there. To me, it's hilarious (see other thread) to my fiance, the ignore list isn't big enough, and it happens enough that she and I joke about it.

I don't consider any current MMO to be kid friendly, not b/c of the content, but b/c of other people.

My fiance and I both play, and we've both agreed that LOTRO will be for when after the kiddos go to bed. Maybe one of us will play while the other takes them out to play, or whatever (we plan on several, as well as adopting) but the kids won't be in front of the PC in either case.



--
@ OP: the chat is obnoxious at times, and certainly has increased. Especially in Bree/Shire/Ered Luin. I obviously don't have it turned off. I have a potty mouth myself, but that's mostly in voice chat - I don't pepper that into chat channels. Free speech is what it is; I want to be able to say what I want in appropriate channels. I wouldn't mind a policy that enforce certain channels more strongly, though, like /advice. But I don't think Turbine will put the resources into monitoring chat channels. The best you'll get is account bans after the fact, which is too late for the kiddos. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

IMO - If it was going to be addressed, it would have been addressed as part of the launch. The cat is out of the bag, Turbine won't hire more GMs just to deal w/ chat issues unless there's massive support for it (which doesn't appear to be the case) - just consider this a battle lost and move on.

But I'd recommend just blanking the monitor if you AFK, and turning those chats off.



--
@ Turbine: you knew this was coming - can ya increase the /ignore slots? That probably still isn't enough, but it's a start.

[Celedir]

I am new to this game, however I am not new to MMORPG's with similar situations.
I'm going to be as blunt as possible. From experience, when others try to limit what one can and can't say, things get very hostile between EVERYONE throughout the game. The last MMORPG I played was Kingdom Heroes, and since the GSs/GMs "stepped up their game" so to speak, the playerbase has been cut down at least in half due to the restriction of their first amendment rights. However, there is a simple solution, as I know there are those of you who do not wish to listen to what some may call offensive language.
I think it could very simply be sorted out like this: A couple servers for people who want to "keep it clean" and a couple servers for those who wish to talk about whatever they please. It would nip the controversy in the bud and nobody would feel offended, controlled or put down in any way.
My personal opinion is that there are MUCH worse things in this world happening right now than someone swearing on a game's chatbox, and anyone who claims to be an "experienced and mature adult" will have to deal with it, just as if they would a co-worker. There will always be things that get on someone's nerves sure, I choose to look past it. I've been through a lot in life, had lives pass away before me, so I guess this is why I think that it is a very minimal and trivial thing to be upset about. It's really a mixed bowl of fruit discussion here though, because everyone will be offended by something, and it's inevitable that they will be forced to put up with it someday. Tolerance is a virtue in my opinion, and I think if more people were tolerant, they would also be a bit happier. That's my 2 cents, take it or leave it. No flames though please, I still want to keep it friendly.

[e6172]

Aolain, I agree with you completely. I have no idea why people deny that it wasn't always like this....Anyway, I was in Bree-land OOC the day before yesterday...and oh my goodness, it was different. People talked about adult stuff, I remarked that I can't let my kids watch me play anymore (I don't have kids though) and they told me to turn off OOC, I made them read the EULA, I tried to change topics and the result - nothing. About two weeks ago people were posting male private parts with the keys. In moria the chat is the same as it was before september 10th. That's because they haven't reached moria, or they haven't bought it. People please open your eyes!! And they aren't a few here and there...there are hordes of them, hordes of swarming beasts who cuss and break the rules repeatedly without a GM warning them. We shouldn't have to turn off our chat channels, this is an online game. We should we able to converse with people, if we turn the chat off we might as well go and play mario.

For those who haven't noticed anything different: Please go to Bree-land and watch the OOC channel, I rarely pass through, unless its on my low lvl alt, and when I do the chat is nearly always bad. I don't know if its different it other servers, I'm in Brandywine.

[Glavian]

This is very easily remedied. Shut off all channels except Say, Tell, Kinship, and Fellowship. Problem solved.

I have never had Regional, OOC, or LFF turned on from day 1.

Not that I am condoning the nasty language or the influx of many morons into the game, but why gripe about the issue when you can solve it by removing it from the chat window.

[Celedir]

This is very easily remedied. Shut off all channels except Say, Tell, Kinship, and Fellowship. Problem solved.

I have never had Regional, OOC, or LFF turned on from day 1.

Not that I am condoning the nasty language or the influx of many morons into the game, but why gripe about the issue when you can solve it by removing it from the chat window.

Maybe channel selection, so you can choose what channel you see? Or an ability to just minimize chat altogether, I was trying to do that earlier. :P I was seeing stuff about old people's genitals and that was a bit too much for me to want to think about. XD

[Xhiu]

I have been known to spew obscenities on occasion. I have been known to frown at the goings-on with some f2p noobs. I have been a virtual agressor on occasion.

Yet I always liked leveling noob toons in the Shire because it seemed quieter... more peaceful. Well until the influx of non paying bodies.

I've noticed that ND isnt much like that yet. I've noticed that Moria is more of a ghost town in recent days. I also noticed the level 2 dwarf in Thorin's Gate that came up to my level 4 elf trying to clear a tutorial quest on Crickhollow ask me, "would you like some dwarf ****" Of course my first response, which I kept to myself was, why would I want something that small.

The other reason I leveled in the Shire was because most of the stuff we see now, VIP and F2P, only happened if you frequented Bree-town. The only recourse is to put them on ignore or turn off the channel, which I make sure to inform the 'offender' before I do it. I have noticed that there are a lot of these people who would actually like to chat and just need to understand what the boundaries their audience is.

Of course I still have my alias:
/alias add ;name /lol can't believe a mother would hate her child so much that she would name it ;target.

now that is an elitest VIP.

[Glavian]

Maybe channel selection, so you can choose what channel you see? Or an ability to just minimize chat altogether, I was trying to do that earlier. :P I was seeing stuff about old people's genitals and that was a bit too much for me to want to think about. XD

You can choose what channels you see. Right click on the tab in the chat window and select or deselect the ones you want or don't want to see. very easy.

[Burning25]

Man, don't you just love our American culture?

You're worried about your young grandson/granddaughter hearing a reference to "male genitalia" yet you wanted to let them play this game.

"Honey, go slice that other human up for me, I want my farm tools back, just remember its ok to cut him up with a sword, hes a bad guy." "What, someone referenced male anatomy, MALE ANATOMY?" "OUTRAGE. TURBINE FIX THIS!"

Don't get me wrong, the chat is crude, but you're coming at it from a bad grandparent angle. The game is rated 13+ for that very reason. Turbine can't do everything, you have a filter and you can leave the channels off(I have all of them except LFF off.)

[orrie206]

Same here on Gladden as well. In the past I enjoyed having GLFF open. It never really got out of hand. I think it was yesterday but a bunch of people on gladden were talking about another player and i will leave it at that. I am with the OP in that i will not rage quit but I do think the ban hammer needs to be swung around. Make an example out of a few and the rest should fall in line lol

[Celedir]

You can choose what channels you see. Right click on the tab in the chat window and select or deselect the ones you want or don't want to see. very easy.

Really? Thanks for telling me.
I asked earlier and someone said it wasn't possible. :/

[Dean340]

You can choose what channels you see. Right click on the tab in the chat window and select or deselect the ones you want or don't want to see. very easy.

exactly...
my kids love to watch me play, but i only have kinship chat enabled.
and as an officer of my kin, i can somewhat control the tone of chat there