Question about usurp Kinship leadership

[chazcon3]

The Lorebook reads:

"...If the leader does not log in for more than 35 days or cancels his or her account, the successor receives a mail indicating the availability of the Usurp option. The successor can click the Usurp button in the Kinship panel to become leader. If the successor does not usurp leadership within 10 days, all officers of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any officer can usurp leadership. If no officer usurps leadership within 20 days, all members of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any member can usurp leadership. If a kinship goes 65 days without a new leader, the kinship will automatically disband.."

So to summarize, 35 days after the Kinship leader does not log in, the Successor may usurp leadership, and after 45 days the Officers may usurp, and after 65 days the Members may usurp.

However, this guide also reads that after 65 days the kinship is disbanded. So if this is right the Members will never have a chance to usurp leadership. There must be an error in there somewhere.

Can a dev clarify this please? Thank you!

[Livejazz]

However, this guide also reads that after 65 days the kinship is disbanded. So if this is right the Members will never have a chance to usurp leadership

I don't think those times run concurrently. So, IOW, there comes a certain point at which any officer can usurp leadership, & then, if nobody has usurped leadership in the next 65 days after that point, then the kin gets disbanded.

I'm sure someone else can explain this better than I can, tho.

[cynyck]

I don't think those times run concurrently. So, IOW, there comes a certain point at which any officer can usurp leadership, & then, if nobody has usurped leadership in the next 65 days after that point, then the kin gets disbanded.

I'm sure someone else can explain this better than I can, tho.

DWNAFE? I mean, AFAIK, IMO IOW is a new one. I suppose IOW means "in other words?" (and there's a pun in there somewhere). Maybe I'm just getting old, but I had to sit and stare at it for a few moments before the meaning dawned on me, so it may have taken you a second less to write but it took me two or three seconds longer to read.




Oh, DWNAFE means "do we need abbreviations for everything" and you probably know AFAIK is "as far as I know" and IMO is "in my opinion." Perhaps I should have shortened AFAIK, IMO IOW to AII? WDYT?

[Brandon_Blackbird]

This is very interesting to me. Our kinship leader has not logged on for six months yet to my knowledge no one in our kinship has received any e-mail or notification. I am one of the kinship officers and I certainly have not received any notification e-mails nor was I aware that the kinship could be disbanded. Our kinship leader is still subscribed (lifetime member IIRC) but has certainly been AWOL for several months.

I never got any mails either when I was in the same situation. I think the system is a little borked.

[Dunford]

This is very interesting to me. Our kinship leader has not logged on for six months yet to my knowledge no one in our kinship has received any e-mail or notification. I am one of the kinship officers and I certainly have not received any notification e-mails nor was I aware that the kinship could be disbanded. Our kinship leader is still subscribed (lifetime member IIRC) but has certainly been AWOL for several months.

[chazcon3]

Dunford - YOUR post is very interesting to ME!

Is there a 'Usurp' button on your Kinship panel?

[Keirion]

My kin had an usurp happen recently. Both the kin leader and heir went MIA at the same time. None of the officers received the supposed in game mail about usurping, but the button did appear in the kin panel, went hunting for info on it on the website and found what's quoted by the OP.

Our assumption was the regular members had a 24 hour period where they could usurp leadership and at the end of that 24 hours the kin was disbanded. We didn't test it, clearly.

[Sapience]

The Lorebook reads:

"...If the leader does not log in for more than 35 days or cancels his or her account, the successor receives a mail indicating the availability of the Usurp option. The successor can click the Usurp button in the Kinship panel to become leader. If the successor does not usurp leadership within 10 days, all officers of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any officer can usurp leadership. If no officer usurps leadership within 20 days, all members of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any member can usurp leadership. If a kinship goes 65 days without a new leader, the kinship will automatically disband.."

So to summarize, 35 days after the Kinship leader does not log in, the Successor may usurp leadership, and after 45 days the Officers may usurp, and after 65 days the Members may usurp.

However, this guide also reads that after 65 days the kinship is disbanded. So if this is right the Members will never have a chance to usurp leadership. There must be an error in there somewhere.

Can a dev clarify this please? Thank you!

There's a full explanation in the Kinship forum.

[Dunford]

Dunford - YOUR post is very interesting to ME!

Is there a 'Usurp' button on your Kinship panel?

I just checked and here is the status:

Yes, there is an active Usurp button at the top of the kinship page.
Our kinship leader last logged onto his ACCOUNT on July 29, 2010.
The kinship leader last logged on with the character that is set as kinship leader on May 1, 2010.

I do not see any indication if anyone has been set as Heir nor do I see any method to do so.

To my knowledge no one in the kinship, officer or otherwise, has ever received any e-mail regarding selecting a new kinship leader or disbanding of the kinship.

Now I wonder if I should go ahead and perform a coup. Viva la revolution!?

[Yula_the_Mighty]

The last log in dates are not accurate. All you know for sure is that the last recorded log in time is ... The character may have logged in after that point.

The only person that can see the successor name is the leader. No one else knows if there is one or who it is.

The logic is fairly simple. Leader does not log in. The successor get the ability to take over. A few days later the ability to take over extends to the officers. A few days after that the ability to take over is extended to all members and above. A few days after this final extension - no one takes over - the kinship is dissolved.

My humble opinion, you can usurp the leader position. Do so. You kin members can work out the leadership situation after someone take responsibility for preserving the kin.

[ArahadEketta]

The way I read it is the Successor has the option to take over on day 35. On day 35 + 10 (day 45) then any Officer can do so. On day 35 + 20 (day 55) then anyone in the Kin may then take over the Kin. On day 35 + 30 (day 65) if no one takes the position then the Kin is disbanded. This shows a progression of +10 per stage.

edit: Yula, everyone in the Kin can see who the Successor is on the Kin tab. The Successor is an Officer of the Kin but gets their own icon instead of the red mark of an Officer.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

edit: Yula, everyone in the Kin can see who the Successor is on the Kin tab. The Successor is an Officer of the Kin but gets their own icon instead of the red mark of an Officer.

The problem is that it is not listed on the kinship panel.

It is buried in kin roster. Our kin must have 50 pages of members. How in the heck you ever find who the heck the Successor is? Unless they are logged on. You got less than one page of actives. Turbine has this screwed up implementation where the pages reset time a member logs in or out.

How do the kins with a lot of active members extract any useful information from the roster? Our kin is fat with all the alts and old friends that do not play any more. Some of our members have 18 characters with two accounts.

Unless there is a way to sort the kin roster by rank. Not be interfered by the constant updates as people log in and out. It is difficult to navigate.

I know we have a Successor. I have never seen this character log in. It must be an unused alt of a friend of the leader. Our leader character rarely logs in.

[Frishia]

The problem is that it is not listed on the kinship panel.

It is buried in kin roster. Our kin must have 50 pages of members. How in the heck you ever find who the heck the Successor is? Unless they are logged on. You got less than one page of actives. Turbine has this screwed up implementation where the pages reset time a member logs in or out.

How do the kins with a lot of active members extract any useful information from the roster? Our kin is fat with all the alts and old friends that do not play any more. Some of our members have 18 characters with two accounts.

Unless there is a way to sort the kin roster by rank. Not be interfered by the constant updates as people log in and out. It is difficult to navigate.

I know we have a Successor. I have never seen this character log in. It must be an unused alt of a friend of the leader. Our leader character rarely logs in.

Uncheck the 'online' check, then sort by rank (click where it says rank), it can sort by lowest member or highest member. You can find out when someone joined by clicking the arrow next to location, gives join date, notes, and location. Sort by class, etc, most if not all those titles across there will have a sort feature.

There's actually a lot of information on that panel, poke around

[Frishia]

The successor icon is what one of my kin members described as a 'half crown' and said, oh, he's a half king! If you sort by rank, it will be the second character listed.

If the kin has been that long without a leader logging in, then definately Usurp. Why it hasn't been disbanded yet is a mystery based on the dates. After my one and only experience with that Usurp option, NEVER again would I hesitate and to be honest, if it were to happen again? I would not only take over, I'd boot every last one of the original members out. Sounds mean right? Not after what happened to me.

The first kin I joined had two active members (both officers) and a whole slew of no shows. I logged in one day as a member, and that usurp button was up. I did some research wondering what it was for, and when the other two guys logged in we talked about it.

this was a rank 10 kin, house was full of raid trophies, we didn't figure they wanted to lose it, but neither of the guys wanted to run it. It was agreed that I would take leader, and if and when the leader logged in, I would pass it back exactly as it was the day I got it. As a member, this usurp option was about to disband the kin if no one took it.

Over time, the three of us started building up the kin again, I had made some painstaking records of any changes I made in the kin house, lists of what was in the chests, what wasn't bound, I put on an alt (ended up with a couple cosmetics that bound to me as soon as I picked them up, the consair stuff from the shipwreck thing), screen shots, the whole nine yards. This I did not do until AFTER the disband date.

Eventually, the leader did log in, a good month past disbanding time.

All was good, we arranged a time to transfer leader back, he appeared to be very grateful the kin didn't disband, thought logging in an alt would of been sufficient, (its not, has to be the leader character, and even the alt log in was past disband time at that point) and I set about putting everything back exactly as it was.

The time came for the swap back, and both the leader and his wife logged in. Not one word out of either other than a 'pass me leader back now'. No hello, nothing.

I passed the leader back over, exactly as I promised, and thats when the wife started in about how I 'stole' the kin, blah blah blah. Say what? It got ugly, and I said, nothing is worth this, kicked my characters out of the kin, my husband told me to kick his out, and I made my kinship.

One of the two original guys was on at the time, so saw it all. The other original member as well as all the new members, logged in to see the MoTD read "ding dong the *itch is gone". That member sent me a tell, said, did I find a new kin? I told him I made one. He said, good, send me an invite please. Only then did I find out about the MoTD. One by one, members logged in, and I would get a tell, where are you? Invite me too. Every one of them mentioned the MoTD.

Not once did I contact any of the new members, they all found me. The original one that was on at the time, kept in contact, he was the only one once again, logging in. I couldn't figure out why he stayed, finally asked and he told me one night, about two months after, that he was waiting for the leader to log back in, he had a few things to say to him. The leader did log in finally, not long before it was set to disband again, and about five minutes after the tell from the one, that the other logged in, I got another tell...invite please.

So yeah, I'd do it again, only this time, I'd kick the previous leader out along with all his alts and anyone else that hadn't logged in. It takes a year to reach rank ten. If you don't care enough about your kin to log in, then you don't deserve to have it when you come back.

This from someone who as a leader, did not log in, and the usurp rule was up. When I did log in, I never ever in my wildest dreams, would of thought I had a kin left. I would of had no one to blame but myself. I honestly thought at the time I logged in, that either someone would of taken over, or it would have disbanded. And no, I would not have asked for it back.

[Unique]

How in the heck you ever find who the heck the Successor is?

Just uncheck the online button so all members show then sort by Rank (click the word)


Dunford: I wouldn't want to risk the kin disbanding. If I were you I would either use the button or get together with the other active officers and pick someone to. You can always transfer leadership back to the original leader if he/she does log back in.

[Frishia]

The last log in dates are not accurate. All you know for sure is that the last recorded log in time is ... The character may have logged in after that point.

.

missed this in my other response....the log in dates on the KIN roster are accurate (once it updates, I've seen recently where it will show log out 1 minute, when I've been on another character for an hour or more).

The FRIEND panel may not be accurate, if the player is on anonymous, the log in time does not change when they log in. Only those who are not anonymous will have that change. You would be forever showing as logged out on that date if you never came off anonymous again from the time you turned it on.

[Dunford]

Good information all. I hope I have not derailed the OP's original intent.

I have a different situation with our kinship. We are all RL friends or relatives and have known each other for more than twenty years. Each time we decide to move to a new MMORGP, we do so together. Usually, I have been kinship leader. My friend has always wanted to try his hand as kinship leader and when we started up with LotRO we figured why not have someone else have the leadership. Last year he went back to school and has not been able to spend the time playing that he normally does. I know he has not logged on since July because we talk over the phone or exchange e-mails.

I don't want to Usurp the leadership but I do not want our kinship to be disbanded because he cannot play either. I've contacted him today to let him know the situation.

Will an e-mail always be sent out before a kinship is disbanded or can it happen at any time? If it can happen at any time after the criteria have been met then I will take action to Usurp the leadership rather than have the potential for the kinship to be disbanded.

I highly doubt we will have the unfortunate drama that Frishia experienced but I have learned to 'never say never'...

[chazcon3]

ArahadEketta, I think that makes more sense. I think that is right.

[Unique]

Will an e-mail always be sent out before a kinship is disbanded or can it happen at any time? If it can happen at any time after the criteria have been met then I will take action to Usurp the leadership rather than have the potential for the kinship to be disbanded.

I hold the kinship on my original server (in case the leader ever starts playing again).

The wording says you will receive mail - I believe that's an in game mail, I've never received any email, I believe it's just an in game notification.

Since he is your RL friend I would immediately use the button and sort it out later.

[Beolron]

My original character Usurped to save an age 10 Kinship. Fortunately the founder is a great guy, he just lost interest in the game. I suppose if he came back I would make him an officer, but after all this time, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't just toss the reins back.

And as mentioned, the notification is in game, in my case as an officer, it hit at the 45 day mark. I usurped and made the founder my successor, after so much time passed, I named another in his place. Since i have VIP Lifetime, our Kinship is not going away as long as I'm breathing and the servers are still fired up.

[djheydt]

I never got any mails either when I was in the same situation. I think the system is a little borked.

I think either the system is, or the Lorebook is. My kin leader is frequently absent for long stretches of time (Life [tm] keeps interfering), and I'm the designated successor and I've never received such an email.

Nor do I particularly want to usurp the leadership, anyway.

[Dunford]

Thank you for the clarification that it is an in-game notification. I have not received any notification either via standard e-mail or in-game mail.
I am going to wait a day and see what my friend says and if I don't get a reply I will perform the coup.

[kitkatrynn]

I didn't realize a kinship would be disbanded if there was no active leader for a while. I left the game for about 5 months or more and when I came back my alt kin was still alive and well. My accounts - 2 are mine and 1 for my kids are the only ones in the kinship.

I guess I should count myself lucky. ...and never do that again!

[Viniel]

...(story)...Eventually, the leader did log in, a good month past disbanding time...(bad story)...

That's quite a tale. It must have been a very upsetting experience. Personally, I would have been very angry in your shoes.

My opinion is that the old leader was not behaving responsibly towards the kinship. If they knew they were going to be off, they should have transfered responsibility to the next most capable, responsible, and willing person. While I realize that sometimes this is not possible, every effort should be made to do so.

The good news is that most of the folks in the kinship seemed to have realized the truth of the matter. And they voted with their feet.

[Vhivi]

Oh, DWNAFE means "do we need abbreviations for everything" and you probably know AFAIK is "as far as I know" and IMO is "in my opinion." Perhaps I should have shortened AFAIK, IMO IOW to AII? WDYT?

IA. It's gotten SB that IDK what MP are saying anymore. WIWI that a lot of the initializations ABR so know I need TGT a dozen of them JTFOWOTAU. GMAB!

IA = I agree
SB = So bad
IDK = I don't know (that's a common one )
MP = Most People rather than Military Police
WIWI = What is wors is ... wee wee. I kind of like that one
ABR = Are being reused
TGT = not "target" ... oh no! To go through
JTFOWOTAU = Just to figure out which one they are using
GMAB = Give me a break

What I love is when a new player asks a question and the grognards give them an answer using speicific, game oriented initialisms (SGOI) and then get huffy when and abusive when the new player asks for a definition of the terms!