Best of the Best?

[Blademaiden]

Can anyone explain what happened to Creepside on Riddermark ?

I thought the plan was to have the Best of the Best players from all other servers reroll on RM for the sake of quality PVP. As a dedicated Creep player on a different server, I decided to play Freepside here for something new.

But all I am seeing 90% of the time is constant Zerging and a lot of running away to avoid death. I can understand that low ranked Creeps may feel they need greater numbers but I am getting Zerged solo by hordes of both new and ranked Creeps.

What happened Riddermark ?

[SUNNY_D]

Blade, you are the only guardian that doesn't run away from fights. I'd suggest talking to your peeps, I've never seen so many people sprint away from possible kills.

Usually, there are either 1 or 2 freeps, or 12, they seem to come out in large groups most of the time, hence the reason you keep getting zerged.

[Davarto]

Can anyone explain what happened to Creepside on Riddermark ?

I thought the plan was to have the Best of the Best players from all other servers reroll on RM for the sake of quality PVP. As a dedicated Creep player on a different server, I decided to play Freepside here for something new.

But all I am seeing 90% of the time is constant Zerging and a lot of running away to avoid death. I can understand that low ranked Creeps may feel they need greater numbers but I am getting Zerged solo by hordes of both new and ranked Creeps.

What happened Riddermark ?

Didn't realise there were any plans?? Just came to try creep side for the first time, on a fresh new server where everyone was equal.

Man what is up with all the jumping up and down you do out there?? Do you have ants in your pants? :P

BTW we were taking guesses in OOC to guess your age, I picked 12? I was right, wasn't I

When I got my first killing blow out here, after being here my first day, I did the jumping thing too, then I got a tell from another creep telling me "that's not cool man!" ......... oooops, so I restrain myself now

[Spynakh]

Didn't realise there were any plans??

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...The-PvP-server

[Davarto]

No worries, wasn't aware of that. Would be interesting to know who is actually here because
they think that, and who just couldn't care less.

I know on the creep side there are alot of creeps who are very inexperienced, but we are learning
more everyday. Wouldn't hurt to have more experienced leadership out here thou

[Aelythia]

I know on the creep side there are alot of creeps who are very inexperienced, but we are learning
more everyday. Wouldn't hurt to have more experienced leadership out here thou

I think thats the biggest problem. Seems to be a leadership vacuum on creepside. Some people will just need to step up and lead the groups and ask questions if they don't know anything. I know for myself, I care more about good fighting than winning.

[Blademaiden]

Pretty clear to me at this point none of the Creeps on Riddermark have any interest in quality PVP but getting Infamy is all that matters

We can play that way but disappointing

Dont be shocked when you end up Zerged in return

[Grusk]

I didn't come here with any idealistic intentions, but, there's possibility.

The truth is, and I doubt anyone will disagree on these very general, and non-specific, points; that creepside here currently has simply very few r6/7 creeps, and that has implications for those who creep beyond just that their toon is liable to be weak early on when they roll it.

Creep toons are more oriented in general toward working together than 'most' freep classes, in that most creep classes don't do terribly well when it comes to sustained fighting without grouping and mutual support. Freeps are a little different in that generally the toons are more soloable, because they're built to have the tools to solo their way through pve content by one style or another, and very generally mere strength in numbers is enough to ensure a decent player can function in the moors. So, creepside are currently finding it rough because as it's quite difficult to rely on each other, mainly for lack of being able to do anything to help anyway, but in some cases understandable experience deficits that don't make low-ranking any easier.

So, that contributes to the next problem; class distribution. Some classes are easier to level than others (the others being largely healing classes), normally due to survivability, but also possibly through the magnitude of credit a dps class can gain in the current solo-fest. War-leaders, for instance, are in very short supply and they're a staple of any fighting creeps want to do with rvr numbers. The players that will make such sustained fighting at all possible on both sides are the healers, and those who 'are' ranking healers up need recognition that hope lies in them. Wargs, though good for ranking even early ranks, are not the ideal rvr class majority.

So, the priority of creeps is gaining infamy to rank and the best way to do that is to only take on the fights where your prospects seem good because of numbers and holding back otherwise, aka zerging. When freep toons can, and probably should, roll out setup to be a match-up for a r6/7 creep and the average creep is maybe 3 or 4 with common damage, well there's just less reliable burst dps available for killing those more soloable freep toons they're fighting.

These aren't complaints, they're impressions.

And to the OP.. really I don't think you impression of being zerged is entirely the fault of creeps in your case. My experiences of 1v1'ing you on my rearver leave me feeling you might have somethings to work on.

Cardiac/Raged

[Blademaiden]

My experiences of 1v1'ing you on my rearver leave me feeling you might have somethings to work on.

Cardiac/Raged

Yes Im new to PVP with the Guardian but making progress. Did not expect a Reaver to kite me but lesson learned.

I will need to find a way to counter your Bleed + Kite + Run Away strategy as that seems to be your chosen method of " 1 vs 1 ". I have already extended the range of my weapon by 120% and my Sprint duration so I should be better prepared to deal with kiters and runners.

[doug01]

Can anyone explain what happened to Creepside on Riddermark ?

I thought the plan was to have the Best of the Best players from all other servers reroll on RM for the sake of quality PVP. As a dedicated Creep player on a different server, I decided to play Freepside here for something new.

But all I am seeing 90% of the time is constant Zerging and a lot of running away to avoid death. I can understand that low ranked Creeps may feel they need greater numbers but I am getting Zerged solo by hordes of both new and ranked Creeps.

What happened Riddermark ?

Stay away from EC, OC, and TA. You may have to wonder for a bit, but there are some creeps that do move out of the zerg and solo/small group. Wargs mostly, but it is what it is.

Hanging out at the above mentioned places will inevitably lead to you being zerged.

Riddermark may become something better than most of the other servers once more creeps rank. Until then, go out and kill stuff.

Springsteen and Gnawu cudos for your solo efforts. Keep it up!

[BlueFalconLoyd]

Yes Im new to PVP with the Guardian but making progress. Did not expect a Reaver to kite me but lesson learned.

I will need to find a way to counter your Bleed + Kite + Run Away strategy as that seems to be your chosen method of " 1 vs 1 ". I have already extended the range of my weapon by 120% and my Sprint duration so I should be better prepared to deal with kiters and runners.

Reavers have always been my hardest creep to 1v1, I dunno why...most people tend to tell me that they fair easily with reavers..but yeah...here are a few pointers for a guard vs. a reaver.

First off, reavers will 9 times out of 10 charge straight at you, when you see them doing this immediately flip your camera angle to your rear, facing the front of your character, when you feel he's getting close right click your screen and your character will automatically flip around, setting you up for your initial stagger. This will allow you to stay in range of the reaver with him being slowed and will put some buffer between the reavers fast attacks vs. the guards slow 2handed attacks via the attack duration.

Next, the reaver will want to debuff you, two primary debuffs are apparent in this, the wound curable miss chance one, and the non-curable armor debuff. The miss chance you'll want to get off of you right away, either with a wound pot or ignore the pain. To counter the armor debuff I always make sure I keep guardian's ward up at all times when fighting reavers.

I DO NOT KITE REAVERS, or try not to, instead I try and run in and out of them, interrupting their attacks. AFAIK, even high ranked reavers, non of their attacks can be initiated with you behind them, and their cone AoE will not hit you, this also allows you to keep stagger on them as much as possible. Work your way in and out of the reaver, auto turning like I've stated in the original paragraph to reduce times in which your back is turned to them.

[SUNNY_D]

Cardiac's post is spot on.

[Grusk]

Yes Im new to PVP with the Guardian but making progress. Did not expect a Reaver to kite me but lesson learned.

I will need to find a way to counter your Bleed + Kite + Run Away strategy as that seems to be your chosen method of " 1 vs 1 ". I have already extended the range of my weapon by 120% and my Sprint duration so I should be better prepared to deal with kiters and runners.

Yep, the dot kiting was at first simply the only way I'd stand a chance (given being common damage until very recently, and my low rank), but later it's also become simply the best strat for fighting you since I've apparently more practise with movement and it being the obvious counter for most guard timers. The things you've mentioned will help you yes, in general in the moors even, but you really 'have' to work on your movement as it's the most defining part of being a guard.

Enjoy

[Kaluu]

.....The truth is, and I doubt anyone will disagree on these very general, and non-specific, points; .....Cardiac/Raged

I would have to disagree that those were general, non-specific points. :P The rest of your post is well stated.

There seems there is a Catch-22 thing going on re grouping creeps.

There are few Warleaders and Defilers on at any time and one can't put together a raid that will compete with the freeps without them. Low ranked and new pvpers are at a disadvantage no matter what. If we can't compete there is no advantage to join or lead a raid.

Few experienced pvp leaders want to lead a group that will fail over and over due to lack of proper classes or ranks. The fights turn into suicide runs, We target one or two freeps and the only thing that is often accomplished is that a captain will need to burn his last stand and maybe, just maybe, one freep is downed. (*cough* MAYO! lol, someone has conviced the creeps that you are numero uno on the target list. Not the Minis or Rks. It's not me btw!)

So, creeps usually have small groups, solo to get better renown, or raid to organize mass kamakazie runs.

Solo the solo melee classes get creamed with concentrated fire from the well organized freep raids. Ranged classes tag everything. Everything turns into a matter of selecting targets of opportunity that have strayed or are low on morale.

There are a several kins on who sometimes have the classes to lead a raid. But, there are not alot of ranked creeps at all and few out there on a regular basis. My R4 warg I have had for 3 weeks is on the 2nd page of the leader board and the highest ranked creeps are R5 and there are only 11 of them.

[Aelythia]

There are few Warleaders and Defilers on at any time and one can't put together a raid that will compete with the freeps without them. Low ranked and new pvpers are at a disadvantage no matter what. If we can't compete there is no advantage to join or lead a raid.

This is certainly a complex issue. No doubt about that. While rank is highly effective, I wouldn't say its everything. One area of improvement creeps need some help with is tactics, group placement, and strategy. I suggest creeps trying to stay away from NPC's altogether. Hide behind rocks. Hide behind trees. Plan ambushes and traps. Flank us. Reverse push us. Get creative with it. Creeps have the advantage out in the open any day. Get a group and go to GTA or Old TR HS.

As for freeps I can only speak for my own groups. I'll do my best to avoid freep turtles in the NPC's as well and try to stay on the move. Keep things dynamic and the inf/ren flowing.

[lungboy]

On my old server there wasn't really much fighting during the day when I have some play time so when I heard of a lot of PvPers rerolling here I rolled as well hoping for some daytime fights.

I did end up randomly joining a kin that I really enjoyed so I'm here for good.

Since many creeps had a full month of map farming before freeps hit the zone, I think many are sitting on alot of destiny/gold/quest mats.

There really is no need to go roam the map because they don't need anything. I'm hoping if freeps keep flipping keeps that the creeps will exhaust their supplies of ore/wood/oil and need to roam the map to gather supplies to refortify TA which will lead to more open field encounters.

I do wish that they allowed free switching between freep/creep play because I usually like to play the outnumbered side.

[Lokinor121]

I didn't read any of the posts after the first one, but I have to agree that I haven't seen anything I'm too impressed with. First of all the numbers arn't as great as I imagined they were going to be. Also the tactics used are as you well pointed out zerging. Now im not saying everything has been a zerg, but when your stuck in ec with maybe 1 or 2 more freeps and a half raid of creeps runs in and just barrels you it can be very frustrating.

[SUNNY_D]

You see creep zergs for two reasons.

A. There are very few freeps that come out regularly so creeps are desperate for infamy

B. Certain freeps only come out with 6+

I'd love to hide behind rocks, and flank, but when you have a raid full of sub rank 5's you arent going to get much done against an equal number of freeps. I think people need to be patient. Once the regular creeps rank you will see less and less need for a zerg. For now, it takes a zerg to kill a group of freeps, because of the lack of skills and mitigation possessed by the creeps.

Also. Whenever a freep group gets wiped it seems like they come back with 4 more, even if they are getting kills. It's an extraordinary phenomena. Or, they just leave. Today we were having decent fights on TA lawn, with deaths all around, and they bailed after they got wiped. Sad

[SUNNY_D]

There really is no need to go roam the map because they don't need anything. I'm hoping if freeps keep flipping keeps that the creeps will exhaust their supplies of ore/wood/oil and need to roam the map to gather supplies to refortify TA which will lead to more open field encounters.

You can get them to roam by roaming yourself. The creeps go to EC because they know you will go straight to EC when you log in. If a freep group is roaming, the creeps will roam to find them. The creeps flock to HH when someone goes there. It goes both ways, if you want creeps to roam, then roam yourselves. It's quite effective.

[Aelythia]

I'd love to hide behind rocks, and flank, but when you have a raid full of sub rank 5's you arent going to get much done against an equal number of freeps.

I'm positive that last night my group flanked a much larger group of creeps at least twice to catch them by surprise. End result? No kills. Full Wipe. I was actually pleased with the pushes too. I had fun playing intelligently rather than for the renown. Just suggesting creeps give it a try. Thats all.

[lungboy]

You can get them to roam by roaming yourself. The creeps go to EC because they know you will go straight to EC when you log in. If a freep group is roaming, the creeps will roam to find them. The creeps flock to HH when someone goes there. It goes both ways, if you want creeps to roam, then roam yourselves. It's quite effective.

I would suspect that there isn't enough motivation to roam. I do it, I know there must be other creeps and freeps that do it too, but I'm sure finding another roaming at the particular time that I am is like having the planets align.

There is no motivation for a freep to roam unless it's to find creeps. With most creeps low ranked, they don't want to find a roaming freep and I can understand that. The only solution I can think of is there needs to be motivation for creeps to roam so they can call out roaming freeps. To me, I think questing for DP/reinforcement materials seems logical.

This isn't a "my side rocks and your side sucks" argument, Riddermark just doesn't have the PvMP population yet to support roaming fights. It will, in time. For those that have the patience to stick it out. The nice thing is that there are many creep/freep rerolls here that when the server finally matures might play here more. If not, it's no better or worse than other servers in my opinion.

[Blademaiden]

I cant speak for other players (Freepside) but as for me I am out there ungrouped with basic gear and weapons, low Virtures, and little experience with a Guardian in PVP. Eventually my experience, gear and stats will improve but I am not the type who only PVPs if I think I have the advantage in every situation.

I like the challenege of even matches or when I am fighting against the odds.

Win or lose I will fight to the death each and every time and if you can ever show a screenshot or video of me running from a 1 on 1 I will delete and quit the game.

[Cometh]

I didn't read any of the posts after the first one, but I have to agree that I haven't seen anything I'm too impressed with. First of all the numbers arn't as great as I imagined they were going to be. Also the tactics used are as you well pointed out zerging. Now im not saying everything has been a zerg, but when your stuck in ec with maybe 1 or 2 more freeps and a half raid of creeps runs in and just barrels you it can be very frustrating.

umm don't go to ec? wow thats simple wished i thought of it first

[Blademaiden]

[lungboy]

You can get them to roam by roaming yourself. The creeps go to EC because they know you will go straight to EC when you log in. If a freep group is roaming, the creeps will roam to find them. The creeps flock to HH when someone goes there. It goes both ways, if you want creeps to roam, then roam yourselves. It's quite effective.

After a few roaming fights last night the zone seemed dead. I was just duoing and roaming the map when, about to log we checked out EC and lo and behold I found you and 6 other creeps camping 2 freeps in EC.

For what it's worth, it sounded like a good pitch. Almost believable!