Petition: Remove the Orc Rude Emote

[Bedelian]

The push up emote is a non-sexual emote being mis-used to feign sexual assault.
The hip thrust is a sexual emote from the outset.
That is a world of difference in my way of thinking.

make no mistake, if you spam /pushups fast enough there is nothing about it that is not sexual

[Ravesteyn]

Wow do you want the moors bell gone next too? Too much underlying e-knight syndrome here.

I hear there is a hello kitty mmo.

No way. I should be able to slice, shoot, poison, burn and blast players to smithereens without encountering offensive stuff!!!

The real answer is that freeps should die like creeps do...ugly faceplants. This whole honorable kneeling in death pose thing should be removed from the moors!

[Toranoga]

I hear there is a hello kitty mmo.

I think this sums it up clearly.

This person feels that if we are to play Hello Kitty, we wouldn't be subjected to this type of behavior. Why would he feel this way? Because that type of behavior is not part of the Hello Kitty 'lore'?

In the same respect, when we play a Lord of the Rings based game, we have every right to be offended by the type of behavior that Tolkien did not write into the books.

This is the same as foul language. I'm not offended by Reggie Watts. I love his music and think he is brilliant. However I would be offended if I came across him doing his thing in the middle of Bree and would be the first to report him.

[Nimlaure]

I think this sums it up clearly.

This person feels that if we are to play Hello Kitty, we wouldn't be subjected to this type of behavior. Why would he feel this way? Because that type of behavior is not part of the Hello Kitty 'lore'?

In the same respect, when we play a Lord of the Rings based game, we have every right to be offended by the type of behavior that Tolkien did not write into the books.

This is the same as foul language. I'm not offended by Reggie Watts. I love his music and think he is brilliant. However I would be offended if I came across him doing his thing in the middle of Bree and would be the first to report him.

Excellent point, well said.

[Sulthern]

I think this sums it up clearly.

This person feels that if we are to play Hello Kitty, we wouldn't be subjected to this type of behavior. Why would he feel this way? Because that type of behavior is not part of the Hello Kitty 'lore'?

.

If you'd like to quote lore , in Tolkien's writings theres no mention of female orcs and uruks. So for all you know they might just not procreate similar to us in the real world assuming they procreate at all. For all we know that rude gesture could be a tribal greeting, or a sign of dominance. You see what you want to see.

I assume some people would see the female captured in stocks within the Stoneheight instance as some form of S&M innuendo.

Again there's a Hello Kitty mmo for people who see what they want to see and are offended by it. I'm sure there's a lot less material there which can be misinterpreted. If it irks you that much cancel your sub.

[timmyloo22546]

Come on, people. Someone using /rude to you doesn't mean this person wants to force oral sex upon you or your family (I hope). It's nothing to get hyphy over.

Would you please point me to the post where someone has claimed this?

I believe I found this from your first post starting this thread. You didn't specifically say "force" the person, but doing so unwarranted by the other with no way of stopping it (unless retreating which isn't always 'best' to do in the Moors as you described) is forcing it upon them.

Last night a human woman was defeated near Tirith Rhaw.
She assumed the death pose while the battle raged on.
An orc ran up to her and did the rude emote, which was hip thrustiing, thereby simulating an oral sex act.

[RabidAnimal]

Maybe they just suffer from Frotteurism

[spockerized]

[Wargfoot]

Again there's a Hello Kitty mmo for people who see what they want to see and are offended by it. I'm sure there's a lot less material there which can be misinterpreted. If it irks you that much cancel your sub.

While I appreciate the repeated attempts to polarize the room by running hither and yon to extremes the fact is that my request is for Turbine to replace the emote with something fun that isn't offensive. I'm not threatening terrorism. I'm not suggesting that anyone cancel an account. I don't think anyone's civil rights have been violated. It's just a request.

I know that I have to be cast as a religious nut with serious emmotional problems because for many people personal attacks are the only tools they have when it comes to making an argument.

A calm review of the facts:
1: The emote is sexually based and not merely the re-interpretation of an othewise benign emote.
2: The emote gets used to simulate a sexual assault and many people find it disgusting.
3: The request is to replace it.

There is no name calling. I've not called out people that use the emote in that way. There is no need to hate on anyone or any of that nonsense. The request will either be rejected by the staff or it will be changed. I see no real drama here. If you'd like to keep the emote then indicate that in the thread without the name calling or second guessing a person's motivation.

[Sulthern]

While I appreciate the repeated attempts to polarize the room by running hither and yon to extremes the fact is that my request is for Turbine to replace the emote with something fun that isn't offensive. I'm not threatening terrorism. I'm not suggesting that anyone cancel an account. I don't think anyone's civil rights have been violated. It's just a request.

n.

Again, cancel your sub if you're that disgusted and worried about game influences on your daughter etc. By all means if you truly feel that strongly about it, why bother with half measures on the general pvmp board.

So when you figure out your own stance, I suggest you email turbine. Have you even done that yet?

A calm solution:
1. If you see something you find offensive, look away and/or remove yourself from the situation. Most rational people would do so.

[Gilindil]

I think this sums it up clearly.

This person feels that if we are to play Hello Kitty, we wouldn't be subjected to this type of behavior. Why would he feel this way? Because that type of behavior is not part of the Hello Kitty 'lore'?

In the same respect, when we play a Lord of the Rings based game, we have every right to be offended by the type of behavior that Tolkien did not write into the books.

Really? It's a lore issue now? We are talking about Orcs and Uruks here right? How do you think they behave? Oh and by the way, there are half-orcs in Tolkien's lore. Where do you think they come from? Tolkien never went into the gory details, but we are all adults (rated T) and can make an educated guess.

I'm not endorsing sexual assault. I am not saying anything derrogatory towards women (as if female toons are the only one's getting /ruded by creeps, seriously.) But I have no problem with the emote whatsoever and I think removing it would be a step in the wrong direction. Where does it stop? All freeps can imitate sexual acts by using the /pushup emote. It doesn't really matter that pushups can have a legitimate use in their intended context. By your own logic all that should matter is that someone can imply sexual assault through the emote and thereby cause emotional harm to the recipient. The /pushup emote has to go. And what about the /rude that wargs have? Lifting their leg, thereby simulating urinating. You've heard of R. Kelly right? That emote definitely has to go. Ever seen an orc do /pick? That is some seriously messed up stuff right there...

...And it makes me laugh every single time. So feel free to make snap judgements about my beliefs and morals and personal deviances (is that even a word?) Afterall, I dared to disagree with you, so I am obviously not thinking clearly. But I say leave the emotes alone. Have fun. And try to remember that you are not your avatar, and the things being done ingame are not being done to YOU. If you can't make the distinction, then maybe you shouldn't be hanging around with orcs. Terribly ill-mannered they are! You've heard of Celebrian right?

And I also find all this clamouring for bans and of reporting those who use /rude to be ridiculous as well. Again, in all fairness, everyone who did /pushup or even corpse-jumped (it's not sexual but is still insulting) would have to be reported and banned too. Suggesting it seems less like a sincere matter of offense and more a matter of trying to grief the griefer: they got the best of me on the field but I'll take away their toys and/or get them kicked from the game! Who's laughing now?

/rude, /pushup, corpse jumping: is it classy? No. Do I do it? No. Should it be removed from the game? No. Should those who do it be banned? No. Should we not take things so seriously and stop trying to impose our will on the people around us? Yes. Should we all be prepared to die horribly in the moors? Yes. Is this all just my own opinion? Yes it is.

[nachoooooooooooo]

I usually don't post in the forums but this has got to be the stupidest thing i have ever seen. Sorry you got humped in the face, but really your gonna let some random nerd that did it to you make you this upset? If you go about removing this because you are so much of a child you can't just laugh something off then you better remove these too...

1.Moors cowbell-humping motion, can be used in many ways
2../sit, can be used to sit on faces/get into position for other intolerable acts of sex
3../clap, has a slight thrusting motion and when hobbits use in on a man or elf it gives the apperance of oral sex
4.The guard skill 'Force Opening'
5.The guard skill 'thrust'
6.Disable the use of pet names
7.Make it show that there is no cleavage showing on female toons
8. Get rid of ./flirt...we all know what that leads to
9./kiss...again that just leads even further down the dark path
10. The animation for the skill stagger makes the motion of a 'donkey punch'
11.Take away all tight clothing, not leaving much to the imagination
12./pushups can also be used to perform the sexual act of '69ing' or 'anal sex'

So thats just to name a few, feel free to add ones that i missed. Really...grow up and start talking about how to improve pvp, not make it g rated. Its a game people...have fun with it and don't be so uptight.

[klover307]

let not forget to nerf cold bear and his "stand there and take it"

we wouldnt want people to think this game was ACTUALLY rated teen

[reianime]

/NOT signed and completely disagreed with

(and just in case you're wondering if I'm being insensative I am female irl).

[jhaerlyn]

I think this sums it up clearly.

This person feels that if we are to play Hello Kitty, we wouldn't be subjected to this type of behavior. Why would he feel this way? Because that type of behavior is not part of the Hello Kitty 'lore'?

In the same respect, when we play a Lord of the Rings based game, we have every right to be offended by the type of behavior that Tolkien did not write into the books.

This is the same as foul language. I'm not offended by Reggie Watts. I love his music and think he is brilliant. However I would be offended if I came across him doing his thing in the middle of Bree and would be the first to report him.

Actually, Tolkien did include this in his Lore .. being a nice person he didn't give the details ... but he says that orcs are foul creatures of perverse behavior ... he has them actually using curse words in the book--but of course they were curse words in orkish ... things like GARN YOU! etc ... I actually think, for lore reasons, Creeps should be allowed to actually say curses at freeps .. things like GARN YOU you Tark! and FLAMING MAGGOT HOLE! ...just for starters ....

Sorry, but I've been a Rabid tolkien nut since I was in 7th grade ..... At 39 years old, that puts it back a ways ... so I'm sorry not to be with you on this, but crude obnoxious behavior is expected of Creeps.

What shocks me is how crude and rude the Freeps are ... THAT is very against the lore ... I've never seen a freep offer mercy even once-- and yet the books have instances of Mercy on the part of the Free peoples ... :P

[Afterthought]

I first saw the title and this thread and had a ??? moment. On reading further i was surprised at some of the reactions.

I've been a proud gamer chick for many years now and have seen a lot of what can only be described as anti-social behaviour in the many games i've played. I've also seen a lot of people having vast over reactions to stupid in-game events.

I get corpse jumped on a nightly basis. In fact i don't consider it a true E moors night unless i've gotten a corpse jump. I've had more than my fair share of ./pushups sessions from the freeps on E. Am i offended? Hell no. It is just another example of people being jerks or trying to annoy other people. I've even gone so far in my tribe TS3 and creepspeak to buy into the joke and turn it around on those who are doing it.

This isn't some discrimination or female degradation issue or even really an issue at all. freeps and creeps do it equally to all types of players. At the end of it all, all some freep does is some pushups on a corpse and all a creep does is shove a loin cloth into someone's face. The person doing it might mean it as a sexual act but unless you take it as one there is no problem and they can't be held responsible for where your mind wanders. If you want to take it even further it is just a bunch of pixels on a screen. While it isn't exactly nice it isn't affecting you personally, all it does is show the type of person the player doing it is.

Bottom line is - removing an innocent animation because someone got offended is stupid. So either get used to it, because all this thread has done is given the person who did it more incentive to keep doing it (you gave them a response and attention) or don't pvp. PvP as a construct inherently contains people being competitive and jerks. If you can't handle people being jerks to you just don't pvp. Sure it would be nice if that weren't the case but i'm a realist and don't subscribe to the ideal world ideology.

Have fun, kill stuff, be killed and laugh it off. The keys to enjoying the moors.

[Sulthern]

I first saw the title and this thread and had a ??? moment. On reading further i was surprised at some of the reactions.

I've been a proud gamer chick for many years now and have seen a lot of what can only be described as anti-social behaviour in the many games i've played. I've also seen a lot of people having vast over reactions to stupid in-game events.

I get corpse jumped on a nightly basis. In fact i don't consider it a true E moors night unless i've gotten a corpse jump. I've had more than my fair share of ./pushups sessions from the freeps on E. Am i offended? Hell no. It is just another example of people being jerks or trying to annoy other people. I've even gone so far in my tribe TS3 and creepspeak to buy into the joke and turn it around on those who are doing it.

This isn't some discrimination or female degradation issue or even really an issue at all. freeps and creeps do it equally to all types of players. At the end of it all, all some freep does is some pushups on a corpse and all a creep does is shove a loin cloth into someone's face. The person doing it might mean it as a sexual act but unless you take it as one there is no problem and they can't be held responsible for where your mind wanders. If you want to take it even further it is just a bunch of pixels on a screen. While it isn't exactly nice it isn't affecting you personally, all it does is show the type of person the player doing it is.

Bottom line is - removing an innocent animation because someone got offended is stupid. So either get used to it, because all this thread has done is given the person who did it more incentive to keep doing it (you gave them a response and attention) or don't pvp. PvP as a construct inherently contains people being competitive and jerks. If you can't handle people being jerks to you just don't pvp. Sure it would be nice if that weren't that case but i'm a realist and don't subscribe to the ideal world ideology.

Have fun, kill stuff, be killed and laugh it off. The keys to enjoying the moors.

Now this is very well said!


Sometimes you just need to write it clear as day....

[reianime]

I first saw the title and this thread and had a ??? moment. On reading further i was surprised at some of the reactions.

I've been a proud gamer chick for many years now and have seen a lot of what can only be described as anti-social behaviour in the many games i've played. I've also seen a lot of people having vast over reactions to stupid in-game events.

I get corpse jumped on a nightly basis. In fact i don't consider it a true E moors night unless i've gotten a corpse jump. I've had more than my fair share of ./pushups sessions from the freeps on E. Am i offended? Hell no. It is just another example of people being jerks or trying to annoy other people. I've even gone so far in my tribe TS3 and creepspeak to buy into the joke and turn it around on those who are doing it.

This isn't some discrimination or female degradation issue or even really an issue at all. freeps and creeps do it equally to all types of players. At the end of it all, all some freep does is some pushups on a corpse and all a creep does is shove a loin cloth into someone's face. The person doing it might mean it as a sexual act but unless you take it as one there is no problem and they can't be held responsible for where your mind wanders. If you want to take it even further it is just a bunch of pixels on a screen. While it isn't exactly nice it isn't affecting you personally, all it does is show the type of person the player doing it is.

Bottom line is - removing an innocent animation because someone got offended is stupid. So either get used to it, because all this thread has done is given the person who did it more incentive to keep doing it (you gave them a response and attention) or don't pvp. PvP as a construct inherently contains people being competitive and jerks. If you can't handle people being jerks to you just don't pvp. Sure it would be nice if that weren't that case but i'm a realist and don't subscribe to the ideal world ideology.

Have fun, kill stuff, be killed and laugh it off. The keys to enjoying the moors.

I agree with the above quote.

On Bwine you know if u dont want to get jumped/emoted at you release fast.

I was a major PVPer in SWG before this. Same stuff happened there. In fact there in-game macros could be used to do some things that looked far worse with emotes. I'm not saying that they should do it or that that makes it ok but someone will always find a way to do something that someone will find offensive. Removing 1 emote because of a few people missusing it wont change that. If Hello Kitty had PVP I'm sure ppl would find a way to do things ppl would deem offensive. Like I said doesnt make it right just seems to be how these things go where any type of PVP is involved. Guess what's why they say "Online Interaction is not Rated".

[dagorlad91806]

/Rude


.........

[Toranoga]

Actually, Tolkien did include this in his Lore .. being a nice person he didn't give the details ...

This is it exactly! Tolkien did not include it in the books. So why do you want it included in this game?

The Hello Kitties must procreate somehow. Do you want them to include that in Hello Kitty?

I see lots of people stating they don't want it taken out. But I have yet to see one person explain why keeping this emote in the game is good for the game. We have had several people explain why it's bad for the game. So please, tell me how this improves the game. How is this emote going to encourage new players to join?

I find it very ironic that you guys are here arguing to keep something in this game that will turn people away from it. Especially since this is in the PvMP part of the game which we all know is an ever shrinking player base.

For the past year or more Turbine has been doing the right thing and taking steps to become an 'inclusive' game. Yet here you guy are trying to make it exclusive by telling people you will grief them until they go play another game. Good job guys. You should be proud.

[reianime]

First let me just state, I dont use the emotes or jump on anyone unless they are a friend. Either side. I dont do anything that I know would offend the indivdual. And I'm not talking about the emote in question on an orc specificly, I just dont have the drive some ppl do to defile their enemies or whatever they're doing. When I emote at someone or jump on them it is only as a joke amongst friends and we both get a good laugh. That in mind my reasons for keeping it...

1. If not abused, the emote is quite amusing*, especially if used among friends and not in a disgusting way. It is something I could image an Orc doing whether it is lore or not. I dont personally find /rude by itself NOT offense.

2. You can get a title from being /rude(d) 200 times. I enjoy things like getting harder to get titles. I remember when Brodster unlocked it by being ruded by a creep raid he was very excited and amused.

3. Creeps have very few visual emotes. I dont want to lose one.

4. If we start removing everything that someone has or might abuse/use in a manner not intended, what will be left? It takes just one toset president before long we wont have any emotes left because someone can use it wrong. I understand how some can find it by itself offensive. But I also know some ppl are offended by the use of Alcohol and Pipe Weed in the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but as the saying goes "you cant please all the ppl all the time".

The compaint from the sound of the OP is that someone was misussing it and offending an individual. THE USE... Not the emote itself. I believe, as someone posted earlier, you should report the person for abuse. You definately have a case there with that.

*See Michael Jackson Dance pretty much any dance.


The bellow image is the example of the /rude emote being used in a very funny way. You'll note there are no freeps around. We were just being silly and emoting and having a good time in the raid.

[Gilindil]

For the past year or more Turbine has been doing the right thing and taking steps to become an 'inclusive' game. Yet here you guy are trying to make it exclusive by telling people you will grief them until they go play another game. Good job guys. You should be proud.

Right, because if you read my post that is clearly exactly what I said

How does it make the game better? Well this is purely my own opinion again, but I thought it was funny the first time I saw this emote. And it made me feel like the devs wanted the creeps to be, well, creeps. Ultimately I don't think it is a big enough deal that you can realistically say it will drive significant numbers of people away. And for each one that does leave over this, perhaps there is one other who finds it amusing (the emote, not its being used to hurt anyone) and who therefore sticks around to see what other amusing things exist on creepside.

The whole point of this thread is that someone said they didn't like the emote. They have their reasons. It wouldn't make any sense to then ask, "How is it hurting the game?" since they have already clearly expressed their distaste for the emote. Similarly, many people have responded that they like the emote. They have their reasons. It doesn't make any sense to then ask, "How is it improving the game?" They have already clearly stated their liking the emote (again, the emote itself, not the intention of hurting anyone's feelings by its use in specific ways.) It improves their individual gaming experience because they like it. Just like it hurts someone else's individual gaming experience because they dislike it.

But to say that everyone who likes the emote is a griefer or enjoys and intends to hurt other people is a completely unfounded and disingenuous argument, making no more sense than it would to say everyone who dislikes the emote is a.... whatever. Use your imagination. I'd probably get reported for harassment if I used a colorful example of my own in this crowd.

Summary:
How does it hurt the game? Some individuals dislike it and therefore it diminishes their experience.
How does it improve the game? Some individuals like it and therefore it enhances their experience.

Net result?
We'll see.

[TheLegendaryGoat]

All of you are getting trolled.

With that said...

INB4 emergency hotfix to remove warg and uruk/orc rude emotes

While we are on the topic I feel that Turbine should rename the burglar class because it presents the crime of burglary as fun and overpowered and can influence the hundreds of young people playing the burglar class into committing real life burglaries. Please sign this petition to rename the burglar class.

[Eliwyne]

I understand I may not be the most qualified person to comment on this matter, as I have never been in the Ettenmoors; I do not know how to quote the Code of Conduct with the fancy quote box, for which I am looking at rules 3, 19, 22, and 28 in response to some statements people have made; and I do not know what "corpse jumping" is, but I do have some things I would like to say, and I would rather say them now than worry about them later.

They are monsters, maybe they are roleplaying. If you don't want to get corpsejumped or /ruded, then release.

While it is true that one may wish to roleplay such a character, if this act is considered a violation of the Code of Conduct, which some consider it to be, one must consider Rule 22, which explains, in simple terms, that “But it’s roleplay!” is not a suitable excuse for breaking the agreement you made through the Code of Conduct.

The real answer is that freeps should die like creeps do...ugly faceplants. This whole honorable kneeling in death pose thing should be removed from the moors!

I really don’t think that statement is sound, Ravesteyn, because the Free Peoples do not “die,” for there would be no justification for their return. Instead, their morale fails them, and they are unable to stand in battle. This is no “honorable kneeling in death,” you see; it is shame, defeat, fear, and any other such thing.

Again, cancel your sub if you're that disgusted and worried about game influences on your daughter etc. By all means if you truly feel that strongly about it, why bother with half measures on the general pvmp board.
[...]
1. If you see something you find offensive, look away and/or remove yourself from the situation. Most rational people would do so.

Sulthern, I understand there’s a new MMORPG that came out three months ago. Stand ‘Till the Sun Dies, I think. Perhaps you would like to try it out? You could pay the subscription fee for half a year before making your final judgment, if you like. Do keep in mind, though, that, judging from your posts on these forums, there may be one or two things that will offend you. If they do, just go free-to-play after those six months. It’ll be worth it.

Really, though, I never really understood that argument being used in such a manner, and you are saying to cancel a subscription based on somebody when you have seen no indication of such a person actually being involved, which makes less sense. I would also like to point out that canceling one’s subscription for something such as this is a “half measure.” It really does nothing about the problem at all; it simply masks it.

As for your rational solution, I worry about rational people sometimes. I really do. If I were to see somebody nearly lose consciousness, and they fall to their knees, should I be concerned? Sure, I see no reason not to be, but that’s not the point. Lets say I see another person quickly run up to them and prepare to do what this emote used in this manner suggests, and to make it worse, the only way I have to stop them is to use a firearm that I am carrying, should I try to stop this act, or should I ignore it? Just for the sake of argument, of course.

I understand that plenty of you are probably going to rise up against me already, but I really haven't gotten to my more original input, so I'd appreciate it if you could stay with what I'm saying a little longer.

The first, and thankfully only, time I have seen some of the uses mentioned for such an emote, is when I saw some screenshots. While the use was not for humiliation then, it still disturbed me.

Now, as for resigning oneself to the rez circle, everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that some party members, perhaps that minstrel with the Rally legendary trait, are able to revive fallen comrades in the midst of battle. By saying that a fallen character must accept resignation to the rez circle so as to avoid this behavior, one is advocating the removal of the chance for this ability to be used. I see no use in “spying” while a battle is going on. My ability to aid my allies is something I actually prefer to use; I would choose to release if I knew it was the fastest way to return, yes, but the fastest is normally, so long as it is available, an in-combat rez.

Keep in mind, also, that there are real people behind each carefully constructed digital player character, and that some may use this to insult the person behind the character, and you may never know that was the intent.

Moreover, this act is done without the consent of the victim, who is busy clicking the button to receive their rez. This in mind, what, exactly, are some of you advocating simulating in this normally somewhat mature environment?

Now, the easiest way I see to fix this is not to remove or replace any emote. It is to provide a check against such use for an emote, and, if the game code is anything like the code I am learning, this can easily be done with just a few short lines of text. It would work like this:

“if mosterPlayer is within 2 feet of freePersonPlayer
{
/rude does not work;
}
else
{
/rude works;
} ”

Now, I don’t really know how the game’s coding works, but that should be a quick, easy, and efficient fix for the problem, I think. Nobody kills me for suggesting the removal, change, or banning of the emote they love, and I can lose my will to fight without fear of having to bite. Hard.

While we are on the topic I feel that Turbine should rename the burglar class because it presents the crime of burglary as fun and overpowered and can influence the hundreds of young people playing the burglar class into committing real life burglaries. Please sign this petition to rename the burglar class.

Now, TheLegendaryGoat, I have to congratulate you for your usage of an example so as to help you make a point. Do keep in mind, though, that the class is based on Bilbo Baggins, who was not the sort of burglar you suggest, and the skillset of the burglar, so far as I have seen, and that’s not overly much, does not reflect that style of burgling either. Your example also has to deal with class names, whereas this discussion deals with an animation itself, and, while I see your point, some people on the internet are willing to discredit one’s contribution entirely on account of the example holding such a gap. Thank you for your input on this matter, but I am afraid I do not see how the name of this class will really bring people to such extremes. Last year’s Yule Festival seems more likely to do such.

I know that I have to be cast as a religious nut with serious emmotional problems because for many people personal attacks are the only tools they have when it comes to making an argument.

Don’t worry, Wargfoot; I’m pretty sure I’ve been there on another forum. And this was after I specifically helped those opposed to my view come up with an answer to my concerns. At least, I would have helped, and I tried, but they were too busy with those attacks to catch on.

And now that I have enraged you all against me, and I do see those arrows and spears, I will leave you all to continue on with your discussion. That is unless I decide to rejoin you for this lovely talk, of course.

[RedDwarf]

All of you are getting trolled.

With that said...

INB4 emergency hotfix to remove warg and uruk/orc rude emotes

While we are on the topic I feel that Turbine should rename the burglar class because it presents the crime of burglary as fun and overpowered and can influence the hundreds of young people playing the burglar class into committing real life burglaries. Please sign this petition to rename the burglar class.

They should change it to Expert Treasure Hunter. It's what Gloin says some of them call themselves. Or just change the Game rating to Mature and let the Orcs whip it out and rub it in our faces all they want.