Petition: Remove the Orc Rude Emote

[Afterthought]

I understand I may not be the most qualified person to comment on this matter, as I have never been in the Ettenmoors; I do not know how to quote the Code of Conduct with the fancy quote box, for which I am looking at rules 3, 19, 22, and 28 in response to some statements people have made; and I do not know what "corpse jumping" is, but I do have some things I would like to say, and I would rather say them now than worry about them later.



While it is true that one may wish to roleplay such a character, if this act is considered a violation of the Code of Conduct, which some consider it to be, one must consider Rule 22, which explains, in simple terms, that “But it’s roleplay!” is not a suitable excuse for breaking the agreement you made through the Code of Conduct.



I really don’t think that statement is sound, Ravesteyn, because the Free Peoples do not “die,” for there would be no justification for their return. Instead, their morale fails them, and they are unable to stand in battle. This is no “honorable kneeling in death,” you see; it is shame, defeat, fear, and any other such thing.



Sulthern, I understand there’s a new MMORPG that came out three months ago. Stand ‘Till the Sun Dies, I think. Perhaps you would like to try it out? You could pay the subscription fee for half a year before making your final judgment, if you like. Do keep in mind, though, that, judging from your posts on these forums, there may be one or two things that will offend you. If they do, just go free-to-play after those six months. It’ll be worth it.

Really, though, I never really understood that argument being used in such a manner, and you are saying to cancel a subscription based on somebody when you have seen no indication of such a person actually being involved, which makes less sense. I would also like to point out that canceling one’s subscription for something such as this is a “half measure.” It really does nothing about the problem at all; it simply masks it.

As for your rational solution, I worry about rational people sometimes. I really do. If I were to see somebody nearly lose consciousness, and they fall to their knees, should I be concerned? Sure, I see no reason not to be, but that’s not the point. Lets say I see another person quickly run up to them and prepare to do what this emote used in this manner suggests, and to make it worse, the only way I have to stop them is to use a firearm that I am carrying, should I try to stop this act, or should I ignore it? Just for the sake of argument, of course.

I understand that plenty of you are probably going to rise up against me already, but I really haven't gotten to my more original input, so I'd appreciate it if you could stay with what I'm saying a little longer.

The first, and thankfully only, time I have seen some of the uses mentioned for such an emote, is when I saw some screenshots. While the use was not for humiliation then, it still disturbed me.

Now, as for resigning oneself to the rez circle, everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that some party members, perhaps that minstrel with the Rally legendary trait, are able to revive fallen comrades in the midst of battle. By saying that a fallen character must accept resignation to the rez circle so as to avoid this behavior, one is advocating the removal of the chance for this ability to be used. I see no use in “spying” while a battle is going on. My ability to aid my allies is something I actually prefer to use; I would choose to release if I knew it was the fastest way to return, yes, but the fastest is normally, so long as it is available, an in-combat rez.

Keep in mind, also, that there are real people behind each carefully constructed digital player character, and that some may use this to insult the person behind the character, and you may never know that was the intent.

Moreover, this act is done without the consent of the victim, who is busy clicking the button to receive their rez. This in mind, what, exactly, are some of you advocating simulating in this normally somewhat mature environment?

Now, the easiest way I see to fix this is not to remove or replace any emote. It is to provide a check against such use for an emote, and, if the game code is anything like the code I am learning, this can easily be done with just a few short lines of text. It would work like this:

“if mosterPlayer is within 2 feet of freePersonPlayer
{
/rude does not work;
}
else
{
/rude works;
} ”

Now, I don’t really know how the game’s coding works, but that should be a quick, easy, and efficient fix for the problem, I think. Nobody kills me for suggesting the removal, change, or banning of the emote they love, and I can lose my will to fight without fear of having to bite. Hard.



Now, TheLegendaryGoat, I have to congratulate you for your usage of an example so as to help you make a point. Do keep in mind, though, that the class is based on Bilbo Baggins, who was not the sort of burglar you suggest, and the skillset of the burglar, so far as I have seen, and that’s not overly much, does not reflect that style of burgling either. Your example also has to deal with class names, whereas this discussion deals with an animation itself, and, while I see your point, some people on the internet are willing to discredit one’s contribution entirely on account of the example holding such a gap. Thank you for your input on this matter, but I am afraid I do not see how the name of this class will really bring people to such extremes. Last year’s Yule Festival seems more likely to do such.



Don’t worry, Wargfoot; I’m pretty sure I’ve been there on another forum. And this was after I specifically helped those opposed to my view come up with an answer to my concerns. At least, I would have helped, and I tried, but they were too busy with those attacks to catch on.

And now that I have enraged you all against me, and I do see those arrows and spears, I will leave you all to continue on with your discussion. That is unless I decide to rejoin you for this lovely talk, of course.

I don't agree with people using corpse jumps or any other sort of emotes in negative ways at each other HOWEVER.

The rude emote is not inherently bad, just like the freep version of it or the pushups emote or any other emote such as /smoke or /slap. It is the meaning people attach to them that is the problem. There is no difference to someone coming up to my freshly laid out warg corpse and jumping on it, or slapping it or doing the /rude emote to it. It is just someone spamming animations/actions at me to get a reaction. Slapping a corpse in the moors isn't inappropriate but some people might still get upset with it because they think it is rude. However while the person doing it is being a jerk, the major issue is with the recipient's interpretation with the action. They might be using slap because they are saying hi. Just like i've had people use the/groundroll emote to simulate corpse jumping on me and others doing it just to say hi, it depends on the recipient's interpretation of it.

If someone is seeing /rude or /pushups as a sexual act then they are just as at fault if not more than the person who did it, as far as making it a sexual act is concerned. This is because while it may be intended as such it may be that it is just one of the most visual taunts creeps have and is a way of saying i don't like you. Doesn't mean it is sexual, sure it is an insult but otherwise not the grossly inappropriate action some people think. However, even if the person does mean it in such a way there is no issue unless you interpret it as a sexual act. If you don't interpret is as one then no problem. Regardless of what the intention of the user was it is the recipient's interpretation causing the distress.

People want an innocent emote taken out of the game because their minds immediately go to the gutter upon seeing it. Doesn't sound like the emote is at fault there.

I've had/seen it done plenty of times before this thread and although i was like, ok this jerk is thrusting at my corpse or doing pushups on it, and i was aware of the sexual connotations that could be attached. I never once got so far as to think "OMG this guy is trying to simulate oral sexual activities with me". Sounds to me like the person who got such an explicit mental image from the action should be looking at themselves first because it was their mind which made it.

I've had people use that emote on me to say hi. I was rather startled and didn't really know what to say about it but i definitely can say i wasn't completely disgusted with it. I think people need to step back and realise that it is a game not real life. Someone who jumps on someone's corpse in game is not likely to actually do it in real life. Despite people being tossers and more so in games because of anonymity, most people have moral boundaries that would stop well before doing such things in real life.

People need to learn to distinguish between real life and in-game, to learn to let go of what people do and just enjoy the game and pvp for what they are - a form of entertainment meant to be fun.

Have fun, kill stuff, be killed and ignore the other rubbish. Stick to that and only that and you'll enjoy the moors thoroughly

[Sulthern]

Sulthern, I understand there’s a new MMORPG that came out three months ago. Stand ‘Till the Sun Dies, I think. Perhaps you would like to try it out? You could pay the subscription fee for half a year before making your final judgment, if you like. Do keep in mind, though, that, judging from your posts on these forums, there may be one or two things that will offend you. If they do, just go free-to-play after those six months. It’ll be worth it.

Really, though, I never really understood that argument being used in such a manner, and you are saying to cancel a subscription based on somebody when you have seen no indication of such a person actually being involved, which makes less sense. I would also like to point out that canceling one’s subscription for something such as this is a “half measure.” It really does nothing about the problem at all; it simply masks it.

Thank you for pointing me to this MMO. I do believe I'll give it a shout, I'm looking for an alternative to LOTRO currently. Given the insight provided by a number of you, I've come to realise the numerous amounts of times the /rude gesture has been used on my 'corpse' in the moors has in fact truly been sexual molestation. The poisons of these foul moors beasts must be akin to rohypnol because until I came across this mighty vision I was unable to recollect all of these unfortunate events. I find myself troubled, unable to sleep, eat, and psychologically scarred. I've had a number of overnight calls with my psychiatrist so far who has recommended a number of short term solutions from pipeweed, to palantir viewing, to the Michael Jackson MMO, and hypnosis to remove the revelation that my morales have been so crudely molested by these terrible things that live in the moors. I will never walk down the street , let alone into a shopping mall again..... where I will continuously wonder around which corner an orc will be lurking to do naughty things to me again.

[Moop69]

Isn't Wargfoot the guy that was complaining to have man heal and goats and stuff removed?

Either way, this thread gave me a good laugh.

[Ivaneus]

Isn't Wargfoot the guy that was complaining to have man heal and goats and stuff removed?

Either way, this thread gave me a good laugh.

The Ole' Man healing goatriding EZ-moder insult creator?

I remember that forum post well =D , But no it was not Wargfoot.

[Wargfoot]

Isn't Wargfoot the guy that was complaining to have man heal and goats and stuff removed?

The insult is something like: "Man-healing, goat-riding, ezmoding coward" and I believe it was coined by a warg on Firefoot who left for Elendilmir. He's had several names as he had a tendency to reroll his warg, even after getting to high ranks. But to answer your question, I've never asked for any Freep skills to be changed. I have complained about them though.

[InnerPieces]

lol

Its a game for Gandalf's sake! Dont take everything so serious

I'm not sure how simulating ???? (forced sexual act) has anything to do with playing the game.

[InnerPieces]

Double post

[PF-Grumpy]

There is a simple solution to this problem.


Release after you are defeated. Don't sit there on one knee with your head at crotch-level and you wont have to worry about some orc coming and trying to "make the sex" on you.

/thread.

[Cerridwen]

Get rid of /rude and everyone can just go back to t-bagging. People who want to will always find a way to be disgusting or rude, as has already been pointed out.

[InnerPieces]

Get rid of /rude and everyone can just go back to t-bagging. People who want to will always find a way to be disgusting or rude, as has already been pointed out.

That's true. I don't think the emote should be removed (although I'm not sure what the logic was in putting in such an obviously sexual reference into a T (that means Teen for those of you using the rating as a defense. Here in America, sexually explicit acts are considered Mature or Adult, not teen) rated game is beyond me and beside the point. I do think people who abuse the emote by making intentionally sexually explicit (especially in regards to forced sexual acts) should be reported and those reports should be acted on. Of course, there will be no way to prove anything, but I would expect multiple complaints should yield some results.

By the way, to the 'female' who thinks it's okay to simulate forced sexual acts... that's the same as saying you can't be racist if you're black. Just because you are in the minority of females who think forced sexual acts are okay (simulated or otherwise) does not mean the majority would agree with you.

I'm amazed there are so many people vocally in favor of such a thing, but I am not surprised there are so many people insensitive to it. In all honesty, I don't care. My WoW toon used to deficate on people he defeated... until someone told me that was generally accepted as teabagging. Then I stopped. It's a sad day when a good, old fashioned defecation humiliation is warped into some sort of sexual humiliation, but whatever...


Life is very, very simple. It's the people that make it complicated.

[landy]

Just as i said, this is funny. This thread is such a waste of time.
If 'mature, professional women' get frustrated by situation like this... well.. i am sorry for you.
Let's remove /pushups too then! If do it on a person who is lying down, it looks like you have sex, yay!

People who want this game to be full of unicorns, butterflies and rainbows should play something else, i guess.

[Blackgobbycat]

It is funny.
I find it so strange when people are so serious about an emote in a game
If someone get so upset about this, i cant imagine what would happen in rl lol

In real life there would have been charges laid...

[InnerPieces]

Here is the last I'll say on the subject because, as you point out (by continuously posting to this thread) it is a waste of time. I enjoy the logic there.

Anyway, this is a simple system exploit. It should be dealt with as an exploit. How so? Well, an exploit is when someone abuses a system for unintended purposes.

Let's stop assuming as ask: Turbine! Hey you up there! Did you intend the /rude emote to be used to simulate forced sexual acts in order for the player' to gain some sense of power or domination over another player? Oh, they're orcs you say? Well, the pixilated Orc derives no benefit nor harm from using said emote. It is the player who benefits (or is victimized by it). So I ask again, was it your intention to allow players to perform forced sexual acts on one another by using the /rude emote in a specific way to simulate these acts or are they exploiting a system that was intended (while properly used) to be an amusing taunt?

Good luck with that.

[Karvainenmestari]

Lol just lol QQing coz of emote? lolled hard.

[WulfiamKnightstar]

In real life there would have been charges laid...

In real life your not running around with a sword hacking up people. If you were though the last thing they would be worried about is you hip thrusting the air ala Ace Ventura

I find it rude and offensive when freeps/creeps thrust objects into me. Please ban all weapons! /sarcasm

You guys need to take 10 steps back into a thing called reality and see things from that prespective. If you want a real crusade join a charity, do volunteer work and try make a difference in the real world. This is just a game with orcs doing the Ace Ventura hip thrust

[Quig]

In real life there would have been charges laid...

This is a game not RL sorry to break it to you.

People who want this game to be full of unicorns, butterflies and rainbows should play something else, i guess.

Priceless

[timmyloo22546]

In real life your not running around with a sword hacking up people. If you were though the last thing they would be worried about is you hip thrusting the air ala Ace Ventura

Wanna have a contest to see who can do the most push-ups or hip-thrusts in a minute? It'll make for some good virtual exercise!

[CarltheRed]

Yes, get rid of the emote. Why would anyone want to even permit the possibility of people being rude?

Manners maketh the man, or gamer as it were.

Not all kins enforce quality behaviour, so that means Turbine has to put the foot down on this kind of filth.

[Damienc]

OP, i can say the same thing about using a sword to kill some character(and we all kill characters in some way or form). Will we be desensitized to that? you think of course not! Because its all for fun! Mind you don't tell me that we're only "downed" we're essentially hurting other people to do so....

[PF-Grumpy]

Yes, get rid of the emote. Why would anyone want to even permit the possibility of people being rude?

You can;t stop people from being rude in game, any more than you can in real life.


I personally find that all male elf emotes have a smattering of pedophilia in them, and therefor male elves should be removed.

[Wargfoot]

OP, i can say the same thing about using a sword to kill some character(and we all kill characters in some way or form). Will we be desensitized to that? you think of course not! Because its all for fun! Mind you don't tell me that we're only "downed" we're essentially hurting other people to do so....

You may be getting my request confused with the ever popular video games/violence debate.

I've asked for the emote to be removed because of it's graphic sexual nature and because of the way in which it is often abused. I find it very distasteful and I'd like to see it replaced with a different rude emote that does not directly combine sex and violence. That is the request.

Here are some things I've not done:
1: I've not claimed that people who use the emote are bad people.
2: I've not made any connections between in game behavior and the real world.
3: I've not indicated that I'm upset, mentally distressed, or tramautized by the emote.
4: I've not threated to rage quit, start legal action, or engage in terrorist activities.
5: I've not said or done anything that threatens people's rights as protected on the US Constitution.
6: I've not issued a complaint, rather a request as is appropriate for this board.

If people want to pull the real world into the debate or engage in fantasies about my mental condition that is their prerogative.
Despite the numerous read herrings the request is now, and will always be, the expression of a preference.
Anyone who wants to make it more than that is on their own.

[Ravesteyn]

You may be getting my request confused with the ever popular video games/violence debate.

still pwning...so glad this thread lives!!!

[Aeginor]

You may be getting my request confused with the ever popular video games/violence debate.

I've asked for the emote to be removed because of it's graphic sexual nature and because of the way in which it is often abused. I find it very distasteful and I'd like to see it replaced with a different rude emote that does not directly combine sex and violence. That is the request.

Here are some things I've not done:
1: I've not claimed that people who use the emote are bad people.
2: I've not made any connections between in game behavior and the real world.
3: I've not indicated that I'm upset, mentally distressed, or tramautized by the emote.
4: I've not threated to rage quit, start legal action, or engage in terrorist activities.
5: I've not said or done anything that threatens people's rights as protected on the US Constitution.
6: I've not issued a complaint, rather a request as is appropriate for this board.

If people want to pull the real world into the debate or engage in fantasies about my mental condition that is their prerogative.
Despite the numerous read herrings the request is now, and will always be, the expression of a preference.
Anyone who wants to make it more than that is on their own.

Following that logic, we should also petition turbine to change the features of most female toons so that they do not look like barbie dolls. After all, that is just turning women into sex objects, right? Or why not add a burka cosmetic item so that we can all have chaste thoughts while casually emoting with other female characters? Should we also take out the /flirt, /kiss, /hug emotes? You are on that slippery slope, and your Sherpa has taken the day off...

[Wargfoot]

Following that logic, we should also petition turbine to change the features of most female toons so that they do not look like barbie dolls. After all, that is just turning women into sex objects, right? Or why not add a burka cosmetic item so that we can all have chaste thoughts while casually emoting with other female characters? Should we also take out the /flirt, /kiss, /hug emotes? You are on that slippery slope, and your Sherpa has taken the day off...

I doubt anyone here actually believes the removal of the hip thrusting emote will lead to the removal of the kiss emote. It is a little ironic that you claim I'm on a Slippery Slope, since that just happens to be the name of the logical fallacy you committed.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Is it really your position that the replacement of the hip thrusting emote will lead to burkas in LOTRO?
Really?

[Aeginor]

I doubt anyone here actually believes the removal of the hip thrusting emote will lead to the removal of the kiss emote. It is a little ironic that you claim I'm on a Slippery Slope, since that just happens to be the name of the logical fallacy you committed.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Is it really your position that the replacement of the hip thrusting emote will lead to burkas in LOTRO?
Really?

You certainly are on the slippery slope. If you complain that you are offended by something, and demand its removal, then that will open the door to even more complaints regarding things that others would regard as offensive and insensitive. So where would you draw the line? Are you to be the final arbiter as to what is good and wholesome in LOTRO? Why not address the point that most female characters look like barbie dolls? Do you not agree that they could be construed as sexist? Again, who is to be the judge? Definitely a slippery slope. I was just giving examples of where it can end up.