Petition: Remove the Orc Rude Emote

[Wargfoot]

You're making your same blanket statement, and absolutes statements are never accurate, no matter how often you spam them.

Surely you understand the irony in this statement.
You just made an absolute blanket statement.

Is your claim incorrect or do absolute blanket statments have merit?
Either answer is acceptable.

Yes it is sexually based. But it is NOT universally understood to be purely sexual as you claim. Why?

Yeah, a room full of people, passively watching an orc do a /rude emote might conclude that.
But, in the moors; an atmosphere of competition, taunting, trash-talking etc.., it has a different connotation.

A sex based emote is still sex based even if used as a taunt.
You added an atmosphere of competition but you didn't change the meaning of the emote at all.
A sexual emote meant as a taunt is still a sexual emote.

If you want a rude taunt many are available - many that don't have the sexual overtones.
If it is really about having a rude taunt, it's easy enough to replace.

a.) Choose. -Decide if the individual's action crossed the line (rude taunt/ sexual assault)
b.) Evidence. -Take screenshot and or chatlog.
c.) Report.
d.) Judgement. -Devs decide if its a violation of the CoC.
e.) Action. -Discipline is/isn't administered in the exact same way it always is for violations of CoC.


Standard company procedures,
handled on a case by case basis.

The CoC; learn to love it
It's what keeps everyone in line, not opinion-based petitions.

I'd rather not see someone banned.
Even though I personally detest the emote I don't care to see someone lose an account over it.

Regarding opinion based petitions, it's how most real life laws come into being and they have an impact on every aspect of this game from class balance to items offered in the store. I'm not sure why so many people take offense at opinion threads on a suggestion forum - that puzzles me more than the rude emote.

[Elderban]

FTR, there used to be a lot more emotes in the game, and some of the emotes were different (ie. /kiss, /hug), but Turbine changed them when they found out they were being used in roleplaying as "sexual" gestures.

[Griffy]

I'd rather not see someone banned.
Even though I personally detest the emote I don't care to see someone lose an account over it.

=^.^= Those are my particular feelings as well Warg.

FTR, there used to be a lot more emotes in the game, and some of the emotes were different (ie. /kiss, /hug), but Turbine changed them when they found out they were being used in roleplaying as "sexual" gestures.

I thought I had read back in beta that /hug was removed because your character would get stuck in the emote pose, they removed it, and never made a new one (because the /hug animation wasn't really all that great anyways). And I don't recall /kiss having more than the current animation (blowing a kiss.) It's still in game, I had someone pucker up just yesterday.

[elvyen]

Surely you understand the irony in this statement.
You just made an absolute blanket statement.

Is your claim incorrect or do absolute blanket statments have merit?
Either answer is acceptable.

lol, good point ok add an "almost" before my "never"

A sex based emote is still sex based even if used as a taunt.
You added an atmosphere of competition but you didn't change the meaning of the emote at all.
A sexual emote meant as a taunt is still a sexual emote.

You ignored my point about context. Context does change meaning.

Just like doing the pushup emote becomes offensive sometimes. Ok, so someone uses it to simulate sex? So what? That's not offensive at all, because /pushups is purely an exercise based emote? It can only mean exercise. Right?
Nope.
Its the context of the action that matters.

I'd rather not see someone banned.
Even though I personally detest the emote I don't care to see someone lose an account over it.

Regarding opinion based petitions, it's how most real life laws come into being and they have an impact on every aspect of this game from class balance to items offered in the store. I'm not sure why so many people take offense at opinion threads on a suggestion forum - that puzzles me more than the rude emote.

First, the CoC provides room for warnings from Turbine staff. It isnt purely banning in all cases.
It handles situations case by case,
and It is there to protect players from just such abuse.
-----
edit#2: from the CoC: (important terms bolded)
"A player who violates the Code of Conduct may be warned by Turbine staff, but some particularly serious violations or repeated violations can result in other sanctions"
--------

second, your thread is not an "opinion thread".
It is a petition thread, started as an attempt to promote action.
That is the issue.

Its the difference between me posting "I feel like Wargfoot is being unreasonable, and I am finding it ever so frustrating.",
or starting a thread proclaiming you a menace to the forums and trying to gain
enough support to get you -repped into oblivion.



(edit: also regarding elderban's post, if any emotes were removed or change, then your statement about the reason they were removed is absolutely right:
"they were being used in roleplaying as "sexual" gestures."
It was player behavior, the repeated abuse of the emotes, that led to their removal, not people's opinions of the emotes themselves.

[Tuco]

I confess I'm a bit ambivalent on this one. Yes, it's offensive and degrading and insulting, when done to a woman or to a man, and especially to a woman. However, if you're doing it to protect children from images like this, shouldn't you be equally concerned about what simulated violence and killing is doing to them? I've always been bemused by TV and movie censorship standards that think showing a nipple deserves an R rating, but you can shoot people and feed them to dragons in a G-rated movie. Why is it OK for them to get virtually hacked and slashed and bitten and pounced and die horribly, but not to see a rude emote?

My three grandsons seem to distinguish fine between what's OK in a game (they mostly do Mario games on their Nintendos, of course) and what's OK in RL. My granddaughters are still on Pixie Hollow, where I haven't been able to find a /rude emote yet.

All that said, most of the Moors raids I've been in have been run by Adino, who always shuts down corpse jumping of any kind when somebody starts it. Classy behavior is classy.

[Wargfoot]

You ignored my point about context. Context does change meaning.

I'll admit context changes meaning.

What you've not demonstrated is that the Ettenmoors and competative play changes the fundamental meaning of the orc /rude emote. The context would seem to enhance it's basic meaning.

[Sirandilas]

Maybe they were just trying to help the Freeps get a new title

Be the target of /rude 200 times, and get the title of "the Insulted". Max gain: 6 times per day.

[Lathius]

The Slippery Slope Fallacy again.
Just because one incremental change is requested it doesn't mean we'll end up at the extreme you propose here.

To put the shoe on the other foot: Clearly if we allow this emote then people will insist that Turbine add even more explicit emotes. Pretty soon the game will be renamed to "Lust of the Rave Online" and you'll be able to by porno clips with Turbine points.

If the inclusion of the emote doesn't guarantee the extreme (hard core porn) the the exclusion of the emote doesn't guarantee the extreme (Hello Kitty Online) either. Please stop making this appeal, it's a really common logical fallacy this thread. Nobody believes that replacing the emote will turn the game into Sunday School Online.

Yes you are right the slippery slope argument is clearly not applicable to video games. Of course all those people were wrong when they pointed the same argument out with the level of difficulty of this game, leveling speed, group content, Legendary Items, radiance, balancing of classes, the store. None of that got out of hand did it?

It is a rude emote. Who would have thought someone might find it to be insulting, rude, or disgusting? The player is the one misusing the emote and not the emote itself. It simply looks like a move done by a number of athletes in a number of sports over the years. Combine it in the manner that player did then you get what you are advocating against, but without the player there is nothing wrong here. This emote has been around quite some time and there is no need to change it now.

[Wargfoot]

This emote has been around quite some time and there is no need to change it now.

Again with thiis one.
The Ettenmoors have been like they are for 4 years - no need to change it now.
As you can see, that isn't really a good argument.

People need to be able to say that they like the emote and leave it at that.

[Tourmalina]

I should start by saying I don't pvp. Period. Ever. Makes no sense to me; imo, it's just another e-peen contest, and a waste of gaming time I could be putting to more enjoyable use.

Your mileage may ( and likely does ) vary.

As I see it, the problem isn't with the emote, necessarily, it's with the person who misused it. Would removing / replacing it with something less susceptible for misuse be game breaking? Probably not. Will leaving it in be a game breaker? Again, probably not.

Is it a rather unsettling statement on our society that not only will some people find the misuse of the emote acceptable, but argue on behalf of it's use in that fashion? In my opinion, yes, it is.

Is there likely to be much of anything actually done about the emote? Imo, ( again ) probably not.

Kinda sad, isn't it.

[Vormindin]

+1 for this petition. If someone find it REALLY rude, than animation should be changed. For GOOD community and PEACE in the Shire!

[Sirandilas]

Can I just say that the /flip emote is not at all what I was expecting

[referral]

One of the reasons I allow my 14 year old daughter to play LOTRO is because of the mature gaming community. Instead of the typical Everquest cover art featuring breast/bondage eye candy this particular game has always been about the story. I think that is one reason why we have the best community in online gaming.



Women are a growing force in the video game market, as I'm sure Turbine is aware:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/25/wom...me-online.html

The people who were disgusted were mature professional women.
The kind of people with disposable incomes.
Certainly not people I'd describe as thin skinned - they didn't start the thread, I did.

Remove the emote and replace it with something fun.
A Braveheart style waggle might be a good choice.
We can do better than Everquest.

Okay, I just want to say when I was a kid my dad let me play Everquest and I didn't bat an eye at the elf woman tied up to the tree. I didn't think of it as 'sexual bondage, big boobs porn omg'...I just thought wow, I hope we can rescue her in the expansion! It's pretty ridiculous to want to censor things just because you think your kid(s) will get the wrong idea about them or it's 'inappropriate' to you...teach your kids morals and don't bash the fun games just because of YOUR biased perspective. Do kids see "sexual bondage" with a lizard man and an elf? I don't know, I didn't. Orcs are disguisting and vile monsters who I wouldn't expect to do anything within the human boundaries as appropriate or 'fun'. People will choose to be idiots and 'misuse' the emote but who are we to take away their freedom of choice. Yes, it's stupid...but it's within their right to do it. I'm a very mature person but I also know when to ignore or laugh off stupid things people do over a *game*. There's NO need to change something just because you don't have the ability to shrug it off, if you don't like the emote, don't put yourself in the position to see it. Lastly, please don't try to make all women who are gamers come off as overprotective, easily disguisted folk such as yourself. That is all.

[Fulksayyan]

so were under teh assumption teh orc was a man ? Lol if i had a nickel for every time a female player did /pushup on me id have a few nickels.

i agree with the above post, Orcs and creeps in general are by no way held to our standard of appropriate, For one, The big ugly spawns of evil! secondary, there Big ugly spawns of evil, and in case teh primary and secondary reasons were not clear enough the Tertiary is, There big ugly spawns of evil.

Moors is not mandatory, You don't have to be there to receive the /rude emote, If you choose to be there you are subject to an emote that can be misused, The emote is in no way more sexual then , /hug, or /pose, or The Festival item, Note Of affection,
Its no more raunchier then /fish_slap , i mean cummon slapping someone with a cold dead fish, that could be taken as offensive and demeaning if you want to throw a fit about it.

If Turbine were to consider replacing this emote, tehy would have done so when they encounterd problems with the other misused emotes that they edited.

Games do not make ppl, ppl make games, using the argument that it is rude and offensive is a personal viewpoint, and in no part helped by the fact that you encounterd a negative experiance with this, or rather a friend of yours did.
But thats just it! its a personal opinion, as others have done, they can choose to take it however they want, and others still wish to be taking teh (hopefully leagal) (insert random vice here) that your taking! Allow yourself to be immersed in that fact that Life in both real world and fantasy can be taken with a grain of salt, and it should just keep going..........

As for your reserve to report or have players booted, because of there misuse of the /emote, simply put, oh well, If they misuse it, and your offended, report it, if you get offended easily, just try and remember teh boy who cried wolf, eventually if your just being overprotective, they will start ignoring you all together. does that mean never repot anyone? no, does that mean what happend to you was wrong? yes it was, but, obviously nothing happend to teh player because of someones decison down the line not to do anything about it, wether it was yours, in not reporting it to begin with. (in which case bugger off and give it up) or the gm's (in which case, if they didnt approve of it, unless you wanan go to every GM online, nothing will happen, In my experiance A GM who can do something will do something.).

The suggestion to remove the /rude emote - summary unsigned

[ImirielOfTheNorth]

If ?????? someone in the face is considered offensive in a game.
Shouldn't hacking off someone's head be considered offensive as well?

Oh, also, my Creeps names are -

Slavetothebum (Reaver), Bumsnaga (Blackarrow), Bumspinnre (Spider), Bumsniffa (Warg), Bummagic (Defiler) and Bumrezzer (Warleader).

Obviously I'm a bad person.

[Wargfoot]

Is it a rather unsettling statement on our society that not only will some people find the misuse of the emote acceptable, but argue on behalf of it's use in that fashion? In my opinion, yes, it is.

Most opposition has little to do with protecting the emote.
Our society views a call for politeness as an attack on personal freedom.
If you doubt that ask a kid to pull up his pants so you don't have to see his butt crack.

It's a strange development but it won't last long.

[Sirandilas]

If you doubt that ask a kid to pull up his pants so you don't have to see his butt crack.

Or ask an America to give up his right to own a gun because some people "misuse" them

[WulfiamKnightstar]

Is it any worse then half a freep raid corpse jumping you like your a bouncy castle?

Should i report them all because they are stamping on my face? or maybe start a petition to remove jumping in the moors?

If you take the above and start applying them to real life then your taking this game too seriously. If the orcs were nakid with their bits hanging out you might have a point. If their character didn't have the option to /release then maybe you could argue that they can't prevent it. Theres also the /report for players you feel are in violation of the tos.

Currently the tools are in place to prevent it and its up to the player to use them.

[Gaurdman]

don't take my tree humping emote away!!!!

But seriously, while were at it remove smoke, it encourages smoking, remove shake fist because it looks likes your flippin off someone in some armors.

ya...

[Nymphonic]

I hate guys that think women are so helpless that they have to stand up for them. I cant stand you guys.

I read half of this thread and I already found two girls telling the OP to get over it.

Women are not helpless and they don't need guys standing up for their values. Jesus, you should hear my teen daughter playing left for dead. If she saw this thread she would be rolling her eyes.

Grow a thicker skin if you want to be in the Moors. If you can't stand the heat get out of the fire.

[MekilosDos]

It is funny.
I find it so strange when people are so serious about an emote in a game
If someone get so upset about this, i cant imagine what would happen in rl lol

I don't have a stance on this issue, really, but this quote amused me. In-game, walking up to an unconscious woman and hip-thrusting in her face is no big deal. In real life, the person doing the hip-thrusting would probably see some jail time. It amuses me that you "cant imagine what would happen," it really does.

[WulfiamKnightstar]

I don't have a stance on this issue, really, but this quote amused me. In-game, walking up to an unconscious woman and hip-thrusting in her face is no big deal. In real life, the person doing the hip-thrusting would probably see some jail time. It amuses me that you "cant imagine what would happen," it really does.

I think if you tried that with most women they would deck you and break your biscuits.

I doubt they would be doing much hip-thrusting laying prone on the ground covering their precioussss!

[MekilosDos]

I think if you tried that with most women they would deck you and break your biscuits.

Probably. After they stopped being unconscious.

[WulfiamKnightstar]

Probably. After they stopped being unconscious.

If we are going from pure Hip-Thrusting to the addition of violence beforehand then i guess we need a petition against the causes of in game violence or unconsciousness.

Nerf creeps!

Anyway i think its been covered thats theres 3 easy ways to avoid or deal with this issue that the player themselves can instigate.

1. Release on death
2. report what you find offensive
3. Play a Rune keeper.

[MekilosDos]

If we are going from pure Hip-Thrusting to the addition of violence beforehand then i guess we need a petition against the causes of in game violence or unconsciousness.

/sigh

The entire point of my post was that here we had a guy who said, "Man, look at how people are making such a big deal out of some dude thrusting his digital junk into an unconscious woman's digital face! I can't even imagine what would happen if some dude did the same thing in real life!"

And that amused me.

I was not making a statement about the emote. I was not making a statement about violence in the game. I was making a statement about maybe keeping a little tighter grip on reality.