An Update: On Upcoming Changes to Hunters

[Verdic]

I've been playing since before release, and was an avid Beta Tester for the game. There, i've now thrown my completely worthless credentials down. ((Because everyone knows how long it took for them to fix Fleetness with all of us crying about it.))

Do- Not - Change - Hunters - Again. Let me see if I have this straight. You're telling me, that what you want to do is completely destroy our secondary (Even if it is minor) role as CC, make Bowmaster the trait line everyone uses (Even though horrible Hunters only know Bowmaster anyways) and minimalize the heightened steady DPS of Huntsman in order to make them (Possibly?) more solo friendly.

I still don't agree with the raid changes to Purge Poison, because honestly in four years of play I could give less than a ???? about Raid roles. As far as i'm concerned raiding is still broken. We're forced to trait out of Agility, for Vitality and Resistances, just to alleviate the work the Healers have to perform. So we're still not focusing on what we should be focusing on, which is dealing damage and helping the Burg's and Lore-Masters keep encounters manageable.

Trapper of Foes is like that trait line folks with a foreward thinking mind wanted, but we never had a dev bold enough to tell the LM's and Burgs to share the play ground with. It could STILL be an amazing CC Line. Turn Explosive Arrow into Explosive Arrows, creating a 3 target AoE daze that is sustainable if you're 5 Traits in. (Adjustable with Legacies.) Keep the AoE Purge Poison, (I may find a use for it... someday. Other than using it to remove Poisons in School and Library.) Add a Fear such as what the War Cry Gambit on Wardens possess' at the moment in for animal's.

Huntsman should remain as it is, with perhaps a change in how Strength of Earth works. I've still never found the Morale regen to be useful, especially now that the channel is about worthless. Make it a Heal Over Time Pulse instead of an ICMR. It isn't that tough to balance it without creating a longer cool down. This could help in a lot of situations, (Maybe even ranged tanking situations for raiders.) Especially if you throw it on the Resolute Aim protection for Inductions if you're traited 4+.

Bowmaster should still levy heavy penalties. Keep it tied to Strength Stance. That's why the Stance was backed up, with being a part of the line. Just like the other two are.

If Huntsman and Trapper of Foes are ruined to force players to use Bowmaster, I will be hanging up my Hunter after 4 years of an up and down relationship to focus on my Warden. Being forced to be a mindless face rolling Bowmaster player isn't my idea of a challenging or fun class.

[Lothran]

Depends on how you look at it, I guess.

[snip]

Interested
[snip - total 5]

Neutral
[snip - total 6]

Dubious
[snip - total 11]

Opposed
[snip - total 9]

That's 9:22 that are actually opposed to the changes, or roughly 1:7. Even if you count the ones that are dubious as being opposed, it'd still only be 20:11, or 2:1. That's a far cry from 19:1.

Yah, it absolutely does depend on how you count it. For instance, you weakened the negative reaction by dividing it into two groups, dubious and opposed ... then you strengthened the favorable response by including neutrals (it is not true here that 'not opposed therefore equals in favor'). So, even with your categorization, it really comes out at 11+9 against 5, or 20:5 --> 4:1 unfavorable. Still widespread disfavor among those who took a position.

Let's face it, ZC threw out VERY little information...just three short phrases. Most of us would truly put ourselves in the "wait and see" group because of the total lack of detail. But ZC didn't throw these 3 phrases out to get zero feedback...he was looking for responses. As I thought through this, I considered an analogous conversation, like this:

ZC: blue
Us: wait and see
ZC: deep blue
Us: wait and see
ZC: deep metallic blue
Us: wait and see
ZC: deep metallic blue with fins
Us: wait and see
ZC: deep metallic blue with fins, chrome bumpers and wheel well trim
Us: NO NO NO, we don't like blue, we wanted red, we hate chrome, and fins are so 1953!
ZC: *frazzle razzle*

Even if he's giving very little info, ZC is looking for a response. So, responses make sense. So far, the forum community response to the idea of more melee is strongly blech.

[Verdic]

I said alot more than blech, but it would be the appropriate translation.

[Daeloth07]

Thank you for letting us know whats going on, ZC.

Bowmaster: No longer tied to Strength stance.

Finally

Huntsman: A true Bow and Blade warrior.

First i was like: "Woahohoho.. dont touch my loved Huntsmenline and morph it to a Melee-Hybrid-Whatever."
Then i startet to think about this idea and i realised that this change could be be what i always wanted for this class.

Huntsmen, for example, as a range tanking line is an awesome idea.
But only if Bowmaster Hunters got the choice of being a slow, high hitting damgedealer oder a swift, not as high hitting one (maybe through crossbow and bow, then theres a significant differnce between this 2 weapons).

I know that i could do more damage in Bowmaster but i simply don't use it because its to slow for my demands.
And that bugs me. I can't claim the highest possible DPS (Bowmaster) and get this swift felling (Huntsmen) at the same time.

Trapper of Foes: Less crowd control, more of everything else.

If im honest this confused me. Trapper of Foes brings barely CC to the Table.
I hoped that Bards Arrow finally becomes a normal Skill.
Because the Minstrel, as a no CC class, got a better Bards Arrow as we do.

But i'm curious what you've planed for our class.
You have truly earned my trust through the last Hunterupdate.
Can't wait for more information on that topic.

[FlyingNorseman]

I am all for a Bow and Blade Warrior. I have always thought it was silly to be shooting my bow at something that is 2 feet away. If they can give Hunters 3 solid options for playing styles I don't see why anyone would complain. Unless they want to control how other people play their class for some odd reason.

[Lithium777]

@ZC: I actually believe most of those in all three categories I tried to shove them in are actually willing to wait and see to some extent, but we're a somewhat battered and bruised lot from all the sharp turns the Turbine bus has made in the past with this (and other) classes, and so we're a bit skittish. With some really nice suggestions (and a few crackpot ideas) in the thread of ways we REALLY think you could improve the class, there's definitely room to do something here. Just hoping it does not include anything to do with shifting the class within melee range of the enemy, even if just in one of our 3 trait lines. Best to you!

this basically sums it up... I'm not in opposition to improvements or changes... I'm in opposition to doing it again and again and again in so short a time period. Though I am not a fan of the melee/ranged hybrid idea for this class... that's something a class like the Ranger should be if they ever decide to add more classes, and is something I would like alot... just not for the Hunter.

[Forgotten_Legend]

to be honest... the phrase "bow and blade" makes me think of melee/ranged combos... and some of the update2 changes add to that thoughline:

heart of the bard: combo with bard arrow bleed.
alternate OD set bonus: HS or SB remove induction for next barbed arrow

and then there is the pre-update 2 stuff:

swift stroke + agile rejoinder combo
barbed arrow + scourging blow combo

if the "bow and blade" combos were more potent, they could work... if there were more combos, it could work... if more melee skills added focus, it could work... if a melee combo skill was a focus attack, it could work. if melee skills do more damage so i don't have to lose DPS just because i'm in melee, it could work.

toss me in the "wait and see" bordering on "interested" camp...

yes, i'm optimistic... partly because of update2...

and i am one who really wants bowmaster divorced from S:S... we should be free to choose a stance based on the stances' inherent benefits/drawbacks... not based on how deep down a traitline we invest... because NOT investing deep down the OTHER traitlines makes the OTHER stances useless...

and i also think that bowmaster is not worth retraiting capstone for solo content because huntsman provides just as many kills almost as quickly... but that's just me i suppose. /shrug

[SerowLOTRO]

Just a random lunch-time idea: what if Scourging Blow could have different additional effects (traited) when consuming the BA bleed, based on the current active stance?

Strength: Roots the target for 4s (useful for PVP and leveling I guess)
Precision: Gives 1 focus, or maybe applies a self-buff for... 8s that reduces focus cost by 1
Endurance: Further reduces aggro by xyz amount and/ or returns xyz amount of power

Could be a new trait called "Barbed Scourge" ~
It could replace a current HM trait, so that each trait line has a "Barbed something" trait in line, just for symmetry. Or it could even be the new HM legendary trait.

[moduz]

So long as I never hear the phrase -hunter tanking- ever again, I really could care less how the class is changed.

[Aliendha]

I've seen some good points being made by people who don't mind us going hybrid ranged/melee. I understand that making skills that have been mostly useless since .. (well since the start) should be changed so they get use except for some parry buff. I don't really see the need in changing our traitlines so that they may become useful. If our melee skills would be seriously buffed on the damage side I don't really see how that would make us too strong.

The main problem I have with melee is that there are only a few situations that I want to be in melee (esp. in raids). When I hear ranged/melee traitline I hear solo/pvp play. I enjoy raiding the most out of the time I spend in lotro and in OD hunters can't really take the damage that bosses do when standing around them. So my main fear is that I will loose a traitline I love using in raids.

I've said it in my previous post and Ill say it again. If ToF line would be buffed on "everything else" I think this is a perfect opportunity to buff melee and not ranged. Instead of giving us better/good dps I think this traitline should give some nice utility on our melee skills. Let the hunters debuff some mobs or buff fellow players with melee skills. Fighting other mobs in the vincinity of our chain stunned mobs adds a risk that if they get broken free we may be taking some hits. We are forced to NOT stay max ranged of our CC'd mobs if we want to melee others. I think this can make gameplay more interesting when traiting ToF.

The argument that while other classes traitlines differ a lot on ways of dps and our blue and red don't is incorrect and I don't mind that S:S is linked to the red traitline. I like that the red traitline is our barbarian playstyle. We don't care who we piss off and don't mind our power consumption and this fits strength stance perfectly. In this stance we get way more agro problems so maybe it would be more logical to add some better melee skills to this line since they will be close to us anyway (but no real need for it tbh).

The blue traitline (and it may not have been intended like this when the game got released but MMOs evolved dont they :P) is the hunter that stays back, doesn't want to draw extra attention on himself. He picks off his targets quietly and with precision. I think ZC should build upon the speed, threat and possibly on moving while dps'ing in this traitline. I'm not talking about letting us kite but letting us do our skills while moving at -50% speed (-50% speed would only apply if we were doing a skill ofc) would be fun (think poison OD and many other fights require us to move around a bit the whole time).

ZC should not change the blue traitline because it was intended to have some melee when they started with LOTRO. Hunters have been on a bad raiding spot since we got nerfed with Moria and with the last updated this has been improved a bit. I'll wait and see what ZC has for ideas but don't nerf our raiding capabilities again..

[Forgotten_Legend]

since we're on the idea of class revision:

how about new passive skills over 50?

~increased cap for crit chance... (or B/P/E for defensive classes)
~buffs for stances through passive skills...
~reduced inductions through passive skills... (i think this one particularly should be considered, as we have much more experience wielding our bows, so should be able to fire off arrows more quickly than when we were novices)
~reduced focus costs...
~increased melee/ranged offense (or healing for certain classes) rating through passive skills...
~incoming healing rating
~in combat power/morale regen

just brainstorming here... but the passives of course would be class specific, with maybe a few generic ones for all classes (like the offense/healing rating)

[Skofield]

Whatever you do, please make sure that a hunter can compete with other damage dealers.

With the upcoming changes for Champs and the past changes for Burgs (not to forget about RKs either), it is time to step damage up a few notches...!

[Odin_of_Freyr]

Whatever you do, please make sure that a hunter can compete with other damage dealers.

With the upcoming changes for Champs and the past changes for Burgs (not to forget about RKs either), it is time to step damage up a few notches...!

This sums it up. I do NOT want to become a hybrid range/melee/utility. Fail wardens can do that. I want to have 1 role, ranged DPS, and I want my class to live up to its 'nuker' description.

[Aestis25]

Guess I gotta reserve judgment until I see the actual changes, but I have to say, I'm worried. Hunters are in a better place now than they've EVER been in the history of the game. Red & blue lines are both great for different things. Strength & Precision are balanced perfectly. There are more good traits than there are slots (a good problem). There are multiple ways to trait. We have more useful skills in the rotation now that Barbed Arrow was improved, Blood Arrow added, and Merciful Shot & Heartseeker both rendered viable as part of a regular DPS rotation if appropriately traited.

I'm not usually one to be afraid of changes, but this has me worried. Improvement is welcomed, but endless tinkering for the sake of endless tinkering is a slippery slope.

[slyfir20]

Guess I gotta reserve judgment until I see the actual changes, but I have to say, I'm worried. Hunters are in a better place now than they've EVER been in the history of the game. Red & blue lines are both great for different things. Strength & Precision are balanced perfectly. There are more good traits than there are slots (a good problem). There are multiple ways to trait. We have more useful skills in the rotation now that Barbed Arrow was improved, Blood Arrow added, and Merciful Shot & Heartseeker both rendered viable as part of a regular DPS rotation if appropriately traited.

I'm not usually one to be afraid of changes, but this has me worried. Improvement is welcomed, but endless tinkering for the sake of endless tinkering is a slippery slope.

+1

./10char

[Zombie_Columbus]

::cracks knuckles::

First off, to the "but we just got updated!" people. Rumblings in other class forums may have begun to tip you off that more then just the Hunter is getting some work. We haven't made global announcements yet, but I think it may be fairly clear where this is going. Also, it will be some months before anything I've teased here hits game.

Next, I want to give a big thankyou to the whole Hunter community here. The debate and discussion has been very helpful! I very much wanted to just throw some chum in the water and see what happened. While I didn't know exactly what to expect, I'm glad for what I did get.

So, keeping in mind that we are still not out of the planning phase for the changes, here is a little more about where my head is at.

Bowmaster: My main goal is to remove the strong tie to Strength Stance. This does not mean nerfs, only that the buffs Bowmaster bestows onto S:S will apply regardless of stance. This change indicates a general shift in the stance design on the class. All stance altering traits and set bonuses will be repurposed and their buffs will be redistributed. My intention is to allow Hunters of all traitlines the ability to change stance based on circumstances. As part of this, I'll be changing the stances around to ensure each of them is better at what they do well. Besides that the Bowmaster will be very close to what it is now.

Huntsman: While I knew that bringing up melee would pique peoples curiosity, I admit to being taken aback by how much negativity it generated. Legolas quickly dispatching enemies at range and in melee is the archtype the class was built on and one that many still identify with. A monthly update was not enough time to make the kind that would bring the Huntsman up to a Legolas standard, but an expansion is. Before I say anymore, yes, I understand that Hunters do not use melee much. I believe that this is more because that there is little reason or benefit, not because it isn't exciting to switch between melee and ranged combat during a fight. However, it seems I did my job too well in the last update, many are rather fond of the state the Huntsman is in and do not want it changed. Such feedback has effected me, and I'm backing off from making the Huntsman a melee/ranged hybrid. Instead, minor edits like Bowmaster will be made, mainly removing traits that effect specific stances.
That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

Trapper of Foes: "But you just made it awesome, don't nerf it!" Don't worry, I'm not changing Trapper to nerf it. When the last update hit, a lot of feedback on the line was focused on the damage reduction still being unappreciated, and penshot still not being what people hoped for. I intend on changing both of those. Further, the realities of endgame are that CC is often negated by boss mechanics, making a class that CC's focus on support through debuffs, buffs or restoration. The trapper will trade some of his straight CC for more generally applicable support abilities. Lastly, I'm going to try to add new trap mechanics in that make the Trapper more about traps!

I think that's the important stuff. I'm going to be out for two weeks after this, so don't expect any more info any time soon. Please do continue discussing things, talking about what you want and don't want, and focus on examples, not hyperbole

GL, HF!

[FlyingNorseman]

I still think it is silly to be firing off bow shots at melee range. Especially ones that have a long induction time. You would be helpless to fend off attacks while doing this sort of thing. That's why Legolas switched to melee weapons in the first place.

I would not advise changing your original thoughts due to some vocal folks on the forum. That is a bad precedent.

[ScrappyTheGreat]

Huntsman: ...
That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

hmm, that might actually make melee useful... adding focus and +ranged dmg. could be interesting with Resolute Aim and Needful Haste to help with inductions

interesting

[Skofield]

We should have a stance that allows us to hit hard from range. This should be the stance that hunters would use at most times. We are primarily a ranged class. When in this stance we should receive a damage bonus to ranged skills and be able to compete against other damage dealers. We are primarily a damage dealing class.

Another stance should be a melee stance. It would improve our melee damage. Once we are forced into melee combat, we would gain a benefit from switching to this stance, i.e. once in melee range, this stance should be the one that is most efficient. Overall the damage output should be lower than what we deal while using the "ranged" stance, so hunters would have an incentive to stay at range.

The last stance should be a hybrid stance. It would deal slightly less damage than the "ranged" stance, but slightly more than the "melee" stance.

If hunters have the choice, they should always stay at range. This is what we are. If for some reason we are force into melee combat, then switching to a more appropriate stance would be the best option. Then of course there would be encounters where our opponents would go in and out of melee range. For these encounters the hybrid stance should be most efficient.

And as you already had in mind, untie the stances from the traitlines. They should not have anything to do with it. I believe the traitlines are almost where they should be. We need one that deals damage in a "slow" manner (longer inductions, higher damage per skill), one that gives you more flexibility (shorter inductions, lower damage per skill) and one that lets us CC and support group play (remove poison). And please do remove the focus loss penalty for movement.

[brasswire12]

My main goal is to remove the strong tie to Strength Stance. This does not mean nerfs, only that the buffs Bowmaster bestows onto S:S will apply regardless of stance. This change indicates a general shift in the stance design on the class. All stance altering traits and set bonuses will be repurposed and their buffs will be redistributed. My intention is to allow Hunters of all traitlines the ability to change stance based on circumstances. As part of this, I'll be changing the stances around to ensure each of them is better at what they do well.

Will be interesting to see what you have planned for Precision Stance in this regard, since currently most of it's value is in the buffs it gets from Huntsman traits.

[bastiat1]

That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

Gotta admit, this is interesting, and perhaps I was too hyperbolic- afterall this is al buffs- nothing but upside. Nonetheless, as a non-Moors / primarily PvE raid player, I think the melee buffs are largely wasted on me. I would probably use the change to get inside to generate focus (even more burn) but the real guys that need the melee buffs are the PvP guys, which I usually see running deep into the red line.

I suspect this would have offered up enough different playstyle options to allow really good hunters to further distance themselves from bad ones. Added complexity does that.

[Killien]

That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

I will confess I haven't read the first 7 pages, but this sounds great to me, very interesting indeed! I've felt for a while the Hunter is a pretty two dimensional class (simple ranged skills and c/c) but bringing a melee component in and mixing things up as you describe could mean a whole new approach and play style. Hopefully you can find a middle ground there somewhere if it's really met the opposition you indicate.

[Surmoth]

::cracks knuckles::

First off, to the "but we just got updated!" people. Rumblings in other class forums may have begun to tip you off that more then just the Hunter is getting some work. We haven't made global announcements yet, but I think it may be fairly clear where this is going. Also, it will be some months before anything I've teased here hits game.

Next, I want to give a big thankyou to the whole Hunter community here. The debate and discussion has been very helpful! I very much wanted to just throw some chum in the water and see what happened. While I didn't know exactly what to expect, I'm glad for what I did get.

So, keeping in mind that we are still not out of the planning phase for the changes, here is a little more about where my head is at.

Bowmaster: My main goal is to remove the strong tie to Strength Stance. This does not mean nerfs, only that the buffs Bowmaster bestows onto S:S will apply regardless of stance. This change indicates a general shift in the stance design on the class. All stance altering traits and set bonuses will be repurposed and their buffs will be redistributed. My intention is to allow Hunters of all traitlines the ability to change stance based on circumstances. As part of this, I'll be changing the stances around to ensure each of them is better at what they do well. Besides that the Bowmaster will be very close to what it is now.

Huntsman: While I knew that bringing up melee would pique peoples curiosity, I admit to being taken aback by how much negativity it generated. Legolas quickly dispatching enemies at range and in melee is the archtype the class was built on and one that many still identify with. A monthly update was not enough time to make the kind that would bring the Huntsman up to a Legolas standard, but an expansion is. Before I say anymore, yes, I understand that Hunters do not use melee much. I believe that this is more because that there is little reason or benefit, not because it isn't exciting to switch between melee and ranged combat during a fight. However, it seems I did my job too well in the last update, many are rather fond of the state the Huntsman is in and do not want it changed. Such feedback has effected me, and I'm backing off from making the Huntsman a melee/ranged hybrid. Instead, minor edits like Bowmaster will be made, mainly removing traits that effect specific stances.
That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

Trapper of Foes: "But you just made it awesome, don't nerf it!" Don't worry, I'm not changing Trapper to nerf it. When the last update hit, a lot of feedback on the line was focused on the damage reduction still being unappreciated, and penshot still not being what people hoped for. I intend on changing both of those. Further, the realities of endgame are that CC is often negated by boss mechanics, making a class that CC's focus on support through debuffs, buffs or restoration. The trapper will trade some of his straight CC for more generally applicable support abilities. Lastly, I'm going to try to add new trap mechanics in that make the Trapper more about traps!

I think that's the important stuff. I'm going to be out for two weeks after this, so don't expect any more info any time soon. Please do continue discussing things, talking about what you want and don't want, and focus on examples, not hyperbole

GL, HF!

I think if you wrote this in your first post, people would've reacted otherwise. I atleast would The changes suggested are in my opinion great! It would make the hunter a more advanced class. I especially like the part about making quick shot possible to fire while moving!

[Forgotten_Legend]

ooo,,, i like it ZC! those ideas actually sound like they'd make for much more fun while playing... i have not once even thought about retraiting when i switch between raiding and soloing... because it just wasn't worth it... no difference in playstyle. it was stand still, shoot arrows. notice i didn't mention anything about melee skills. i would SOOO like a buff like you describe.

also... it would make bowmaster actually be a master of the bow, dealing more damage regardless of stance... instead of simply huntsman being master of the bow. and it would make huntsman be the preferred choice for soloing (as most of the moria dev diaries pretty much explained that huntsman bonuses were based off of hunter feedback regarding soloing... ie induction knockback in melee)

yes, hunters HAVE BEEN primarily an archer class... but some raid/fellowship mechanics essentially force hunters to stand in melee distance of bosses (NCF, Mistress, being 2 examples) that hunters end up doing LESS DPS because of melee auto attacks. givng all melee skills focus-generating abilities would be very welcome, as would be more induction-less bow shots like QS. alot of your ideas are based on suggestions on these very forums. i would urge you to not abandon those huntsman ideas. they would give a new way to excel at perfecting our DPS rotations, for those of us that want that variety.

would your ideas for the new huntsman also be based on separating out faster induction speeds into passive skills we would buy from our class trainer at say level 55 and 65 or so? [edit: or would induction speed possibly be part of the base funcionality of one of the "new" stances? 2nd edit: maybe some of those proposed huntsman changes would be part of a stance? say the melee/ranged alternating buffs?]

and to make trapper of foes more about traps would be awesome! especially since we only have one trap skill that gets affected by all those set bonuses...

[Yosoff]

The problem with melee skills is that you need to be in melee range to use them.

If we cannot do the same amount of DPS at 40m as we can at 5m then we will feel nerfed whenever out of melee range. A ranged DPS class that's not as effective at range? I guess we could shift our thinking and stop calling ourselves a pure ranged DPS class. Unfortunately, raids are designed with the idea that there are ranged DPS classes in the game.


In general, Huntsman is preferred for raiding and fellowship instances. Sustained DPS over long fights. Usually standing out of range of any melee AOE attacks done by the raid bosses.

In general, BowMaster is preferred for soloing and PVP. High burst DPS that is very difficult to sustain. Usually standing at range but ending in melee range face-to-face with mobs.


It seems to me that any changes to the melee skills should be associated more closely with the BowMaster trait line instead of the Huntsman trait line.