An Update: On Upcoming Changes to Hunters

[elithurien]

Please reconsider axing your ideas because of the naysaying speculation in this thread.

...All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed)...

This has potential awesomeness all over it. First, make the buffs stack. Second, make legs to extend the range/melee buffs. Those two changes would make Huntsmen a killer line and totally in the Legolas archetype.

[Thorgrum]

Being new to the game I cant articulate discussion to the degree a lot of you have, you have been playing longer then I. What baffles me about the hunter is when a mob gets to close range my stongest attack is still a bow shot (at lvl 19 anyway). This dosent seem logical at all, particularly if the intent was and is to model the class after legalos. From what I have read, without the benefit of years playing the hunter it appears this dev is attempting to buff melee skills to create more realism (based of the legalos model).

Remember there are a lot of non 65 lvl hunters running around who dont have the time invested in the toon to have a lot of high end expirence and equipment. Yeah, I want to be a ranged hunter. I'll set my traps, I'll use my quick shot but when a mob gets close my best offensive option shouldnt be drawing another arrow from my quiver, it should be my blade.

While this is a simplistic view, I think a lot of discussion can get meyered in specifics for high end players, where class balance and game play has to be considered through out the range of hunters and their levels. Make my hunter a superior bowman, but, yeah im in favor of buffing melee. Dont need to be a tank, but It would be reasonable that when a mob gets close my swords do more damage then a quick shot.

Thanks!

alt = Cal lvl 19 hunter

[Dom12]

First off, to the "but we just got updated!" people. Rumblings in other class forums may have begun to tip you off that more then just the Hunter is getting some work. We haven't made global announcements yet, but I think it may be fairly clear where this is going. Also, it will be some months before anything I've teased here hits game.

I think many of us, myself included, weren't really thinking of this as being part of the expansion. Obviously, with a 10 level increase (so happy we aren't doing another meaningless 5-level hop!!), there are going to be some new directions taken for all classes. In that context, it certainly makes more sense.

Next, I want to give a big thankyou to the whole Hunter community here. The debate and discussion has been very helpful! I very much wanted to just throw some chum in the water and see what happened. While I didn't know exactly what to expect, I'm glad for what I did get.

No, thank you! We always relish the rare dev sighting here, even the cryptic posts like your first one are appreciated.

Huntsman: While I knew that bringing up melee would pique peoples curiosity, I admit to being taken aback by how much negativity it generated. Legolas quickly dispatching enemies at range and in melee is the archtype the class was built on and one that many still identify with. A monthly update was not enough time to make the kind that would bring the Huntsman up to a Legolas standard, but an expansion is. Before I say anymore, yes, I understand that Hunters do not use melee much. I believe that this is more because that there is little reason or benefit, not because it isn't exciting to switch between melee and ranged combat during a fight. However, it seems I did my job too well in the last update, many are rather fond of the state the Huntsman is in and do not want it changed. Such feedback has effected me, and I'm backing off from making the Huntsman a melee/ranged hybrid. Instead, minor edits like Bowmaster will be made, mainly removing traits that effect specific stances.
That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

Yes, many of us have grown rather fond of the huntsman line. And we've all grown up as hunters, seeing our melee skills as only worth the utility they add, and all but useless in terms of damage output. What you describe here has me very curious tho. I think that adding more synergy between our melee and ranged skills is an excellent idea. Right now, we have one skill - Blindside - that works with our DPS (ranged) skills, but it's rarely worth closing to melee ourselves for that alone. In groups, we're almost always better off staying back for maximum DPS. I would be very interested to see more benefits from melee skills that enhanced our ranged skills. The benefits for solo play would be obvious there, but I'd think that would give us some cool options in group play too. I'm envisioning the option to either sit back and rain old-school hunter DPS from a distance, or to close in and run a more multiple rotation with melee skills working in concert with quick ranged skills, and I'm liking the idea.

Honestly, in the past, it was convenient to be able to just not even slot several of our melee skills cause quickslot space was so limited, but with the Lua mods, I now have tons of space on my main bars, and I'd love to have a reason to actually use most/all of my combat skills.

Trapper of Foes: "But you just made it awesome, don't nerf it!" Don't worry, I'm not changing Trapper to nerf it. When the last update hit, a lot of feedback on the line was focused on the damage reduction still being unappreciated, and penshot still not being what people hoped for. I intend on changing both of those. Further, the realities of endgame are that CC is often negated by boss mechanics, making a class that CC's focus on support through debuffs, buffs or restoration. The trapper will trade some of his straight CC for more generally applicable support abilities. Lastly, I'm going to try to add new trap mechanics in that make the Trapper more about traps!

I've never bothered w/ ToF personally, but your ideas here sound compelling. In terms of CC in general, I'd love to see our core CC abilities get some attention, things that have been discussed for years like separate cooldowns for our skill trap/snare, and unified trap kits for the crafted trap options (I quit carrying crafted traps altogether, but if I could just carry a stack of trap kits, and use them for all the variations, I certainly would).

... but some raid/fellowship mechanics essentially force hunters to stand in melee distance of bosses (NCF, Mistress, being 2 examples) that hunters end up doing LESS DPS because of melee auto attacks.

NCF?? I assume you're talking about the cauldron? Why are you in melee there?

[CharlesRollinsWare]

::cracks knuckles::

First off, to the "but we just got updated!" people. ...snipped... Also, it will be some months before anything I've teased here hits game.

Bowmaster: My main goal is to remove the strong tie to Strength Stance. ... snipped ... My intention is to allow Hunters of all trait lines the ability to change stance based on circumstances.

Huntsman: ...snipped... However, it seems I did my job too well in the last update, many are rather fond of the state the Huntsman is in and do not want it changed. Such feedback has effected me ...
That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

Trapper of Foes: ...snipped... Lastly, I'm going to try to add new trap mechanics in that make the Trapper more about traps!

...snipped...

Please do continue discussing things, talking about what you want and don't want, and focus on examples, not hyperbole

Wow ... talk about a developer who is representing his gamer audience ... one who asks for input and then lets us know that he is listening!!! Dang, it would appear that there actually is a "Santa Claus".

At this point, I am not sure how any Hunter can complain about the interactive service we are getting. Everything in the quote above is something that I can wholeheartedly support and, based on the last update which, as I said earlier, I loved, I am now fully in the "can't wait to see what what we come up with" category which is, IMO, the most any community can hope to expect from any developer. Talk about earning rep!

So, "talking about what you want and don't want, and focus on examples"...

In my opinion, Hunter our melee skills should focus on one thing - when faced with hand-to-hand combat, the goal is to do what you have to "open the fight" back up to bow range. I would like to see our melee skills:

1. De-buff the opponent in some fashion(s) (I care not what) to effectively slow them

2. Give the hunter a brief buff to speed - effectively allowing our non-combat speed buff to briefly work in combat

3. Give the Hunter a brief buff to allow Quick Shot to work "on the move", without any induction - like Penetrating shot can now.

End result is, when faced with H2H, the hunter can do what it takes to slow the enemy, get a couple of shots while retreating and then resume ranged bow work.

Granted, you can do something like this now with Dazing Blow, Distracting Shot, and or Bard's Arrow (if slotted), but there is little ability to actually shoot on the move and it is danged difficult to open the distance enough to get even one induction skill off in the grace period earned.

That said, I cannot describe how nice it is to know our dev will actually read this!

Most respectfully, etc...

Your obedient servant

Luinmiriel-Magellin

Elven Huntress, Honoured of the White Lady, Defender of Lorien

[Yosoff]

Right now, as a ranged class, the hunter has a choice between fast-hitting and hard-hitting. These are healthy variations of ranged builds for a ranged class, regardless of situations. If you replace one of the traitlines with a melee/hybrid build just for the sake of it, then you end up limiting the actual options this ranged class has when it comes to actual ranged builds. Yes, notice I'm repeating "ranged" over and over. The Hunter is the only ranged class right now, and we should be getting even more viable variations of different ranged builds, and not be getting reduced to just one.

This is my concern as well. Being dependent on melee skills to buff ranged DPS means we will be dependent on being within melee range. That's not always as option.

It's a great concept for a SOLO hunter, but we need an option designed for high, sustained, range-only DPS.

[Sonsy]

Interesting stuff ZC, and I think that we have some nice improvements to look forward to.

I can understand the vision of trying to give hunters a more effective option for melee battle. After all, when soloing, the majority of our play IS in melee. It's only in groups where we may have the luxury to keep our distance.

However, when it comes right down to it, our melee skills just plain do not do enough damage to make them attractive to use. Why waste time on a skill that might do 200-300 damage when I've got a bow skill available that hits for twice that as a bare minimum and has a much higher chance to crit? I certainly use the melee skills for their extremely useful secondary effects--parry/evade bonus, interrupt, corruption removal, heal, etc., but I don't count on them to kill things.

Admittedly, some of that lack of damage is the fact that hunters don't set up their stats for melee. I'm sure I could do a lot better with those skills if I stacked might and melee offence/crit, but of course that means sacrificing my ranged abilities and/or surviveability. Given that I do a lot of raiding where my primary role is ranged dps, might and melee stats are not helpful at all. I'm just giving up something else that would be more helpful.

Really, I don't think this is a bad thing. I don't need to be great at everything. I don't need to be able to go into "champ-mode". Sure, when I first started LotRO, it felt kinda weird shooting stuff point-blank, but it's effective. Melee combat does make use of our melee skills to help us survive, but it's still the bow that delivers the pain.

[FlyingNorseman]

I think the better option is for you to stick with your original idea for the Huntsman to be a melee/ranged hybrid. How exactly will you explain how melee attacks increase focus? So I hit something with my sword for a bit and now all of a sudden I am better able to sheathe my sword, pull out a bow, knock and arrow and get off a higher damaging bow attack? Why?

[NameAlreadyTaken]

*Many interesting things, and a thoughtful surprise or two*

Thanks for the extra details ZC! I like a whole lot of this. Much of it you've seen for a long time, so it's a pleasant surprise to see that they've rung true with you as well. De-coupling Bowmaster from a specific stance, the damage hit to ToF and unusable PS root, reworking crafted traps, extra mobility, and some group utility (in-combat) are all great themes. I'm looking forward to seeing how these flesh out down the road.

Don't feel too bad about not being able to recreate Legolas either. I'd much rather be good at why I picked the class, and have more than one "flavor" of performing that role, than try and be good at both ranged and melee damage.

[atbuff_06]

My biggest concern with the Bowmaster changes is what happens to the +threat & +power bonuses it currently has. If those stay along with the +damage to any stance it’s going to make controlling aggro & power in raids much harder. I currently only use Strength when I need the extra DPS otherwise I run Precision. If Precision gets slapped with those same bonuses I might have to go back to Endurance to negate them .

As far as Huntsman, I hope it doesn’t change too much, it’s my favorite trait line currently. As a primarily raiding hunter, I don’t use my melee skills that much so I don’t see a need for an entire line dedicated to melee. Just update the melee skills and leave the trait line basically as is.

The Trapper line changes look good. One reason I don’t run this a lot is because of the hit to damage we take. If that is reduced or removed all together I can see this becoming a much more useful line. I can see many more attempts at soloing instances with this setup with these changes .

I’m looking forward to most of the changes. A lot will depend on how the stances & traits are changed to compliment these proposed changes.

[rawlingsst7]

Next, I want to give a big thankyou to the whole Hunter community here. The debate and discussion has been very helpful! I very much wanted to just throw some chum in the water and see what happened. While I didn't know exactly what to expect, I'm glad for what I did get.

Thanks for keeping us abreast of your intentions and thought processes, ZC. I think a lot of players in this particular forum (veterans anyway) are just a little surprised with all the attention Hunters have been getting over the past few updates (3.2, 3.3, and now RoI) since, in the past, changes to the class have been made in fits and starts, and most of the big ones tended to be presented as fait-accompli with little to no community input (I'm looking at YOU, 2.7). You could say that a lot of us have become somewhat accustomed to either outright neglect or zero-sum "buffs" that come with some sort of price. Your work on the 3.3 update was highly unusual in comparison and to have an even more major class update on the horizon (and announced so soon afterwards) leads many here to be wary - or at least, cautiously optimistic. I'm one of them! But this follow-up post has done a lot to assuage my personal concerns.

Bowmaster: My main goal is to remove the strong tie to Strength Stance. This does not mean nerfs, only that the buffs Bowmaster bestows onto S:S will apply regardless of stance.

I like the idea that stances and traitlines will not be so intertwined. On the face of it, it seems like it would encourage Traiting for your role, and changing Stance based on the situation. In the past, most of the Bowmaster line bonuses only applied in Strength, so there was this psychological impetus to maintain that stance as long as possible - after all, why trait 4 or 5-BM if you're not getting the maximum utility out of it? S:P and S:E thus seemed "wasteful" if you were rocking a bunch of red traits. The 3.3 changes removed some of that stance-reliance, but the real meat & PO-TA-TOs of BM is still the +%Damage. Making it so you can TRAIT for +%Damage -OR- TRAIT for +Speed while not relying on a particular stance to get the full effect of the trait line is a positive step IMO.

However, like some others have posted, I'm concerned about the penalties of Bowmaster now applying to other stances as well (the +Power Cost anyway, since you removed the extra Threat). Dropping to Endurance has always been the go-to method of throttling power consumption, especially in a red-heavy build. From what it sounds like, putting more than 2 BM traits on is going to result in a flat power cost penalty no matter the stance, which bothers me a little.

Huntsman: While I knew that bringing up melee would pique peoples curiosity, I admit to being taken aback by how much negativity it generated... Before I say anymore, yes, I understand that Hunters do not use melee much. I believe that this is more because that there is little reason or benefit, not because it isn't exciting to switch between melee and ranged combat during a fight.

I like the archetype of the archer character who's able to mix it up in your face with a fast and agile combat style, usually two light weapons. I end up playing one in every RPG that lets me. However in LOTRO it's just not been feasible because of:

1. Low default damage on melee skills
2. Few worthwhile melee legacies (the ones that are worthwhile do NOT affect damage)
3. Requirement to stack Might
4. Might -> Melee Offense "nerf" with Mirkwood

Those four factors all disincentivize melee combat to the point where most Hunters feel safe in ignoring "melee builds" completely: Use the skills for the buffs/debuffs/utility; don't rank DPS on melee LIs and use the points on ranged-based legacies; ignore or min-max Might out of a gear setup.

The result of course, is a feedback loop: melee damage is perceived as lousy -> build to emphasize ranged and ignore melee-boosting stats -> melee damage IS lousy.

However, that loop is also entirely justified! I know several experienced Hunters on these boards (like CWood) experimented with melee-heavy trait and gear setups pre-Mirkwood: max Might, dual-wield Axes to leverage the top-end crit mechanics, max melee legacies, etc. Result: "It still sucked." It's gotten "worse" since then because of the MOff and combat changes, and I say "worse" because most everyone gave up on it and drove everything into Ranged. It being better to play to your strengths than play to your weaknesses, when you can never ever overcome those weaknesses and even trying will cripple your strengths.

However, it seems I did my job too well in the last update, many are rather fond of the state the Huntsman is in and do not want it changed. Such feedback has effected me, and I'm backing off from making the Huntsman a melee/ranged hybrid.

I gotta say, thank you! I'm just loving Huntsman now, more so than ever before, and it's been my preferred trait line before there ever were trait lines. I was pretty worried that the increased melee abilities were going to come at the expense of Huntsman ranged abilities.

That said, here are some details for what I was planning for the line: All melee skills grant focus, ranged skills increase melee damage while melee skills increase ranged damage (with applications/removals to encourage switching between ranged and melee at some kind of tempo - 10 seconds ranged buffed, 10 seconds melee buffed), extending Fleetness to buff melee, make quickshot usable while moving (ie: no induction). Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

I really like this proposal, especially the bit about all melee skills granting focus. Since the two throttles on Hunter DPS while in melee are Induction Setbacks and Melee Auto-Attacks, these changes reduce both. Using melee skills to power Focus shots will reduce the need for inductions in the first place, and the alternating ranged/melee damage buffs should smooth out some of the damage variance between hard-hitting Ranged skills and softer-hitting Melee skills and AAs. I'm curious how Fleetness would buff melee though - reduced cooldowns perhaps, rolling Fast Recovery into that skill?

Still a bit concerned though, as while I would certainly appreciate improvements to the rather dismal melee situation, I absolutely shudder at the thought of those improvements coming at the cost of the just-recently-promoted-to-"perfect" Huntsman sustained ranged DPS. In other words: I hope we don't "need" to use those melee-skill buffs to sustain similar levels of ranged damage. And I hope the intrinsic induction reductions in the HM line aren't reduced to compensate, as they are what makes Huntsman "feel" different from Bowmaster (to the point where, if I am heavily red-traited, I find myself getting frustrated at how ponderous these inductions are).

Trapper of Foes: "But you just made it awesome, don't nerf it!" Don't worry, I'm not changing Trapper to nerf it. When the last update hit, a lot of feedback on the line was focused on the damage reduction still being unappreciated, and penshot still not being what people hoped for. I intend on changing both of those. Further, the realities of endgame are that CC is often negated by boss mechanics, making a class that CC's focus on support through debuffs, buffs or restoration. The trapper will trade some of his straight CC for more generally applicable support abilities. Lastly, I'm going to try to add new trap mechanics in that make the Trapper more about traps!

I remember you saying that you were purposely holding back on Trapper changes in the last update because of the line's potential to unbalance the class. I'm now officially super-excited that the line's two 800-lb gorillas are getting a look-see. I think there's a lot of promise here and I'm eager to hear more of the plans for ToF.

I mean my biggest complaint about the line (other than the obvious DPS hit and lolPenShot) has always been its focus on roots which are just about the worst possible form of CC imaginable, especially with the increasing usage of tactical-based mobs at endgame. I'd frankly love it if your new trap mechanics include things like traps that mez or stun instead of root (or both). Make them worthwhile, instead of something that's hardly ever a good use of time outside of very remote circumstances.

All in all, some very interesting stuff here and thank you for taking the time to share it!

[morrowbreeze]

Fears and stuns dont last long enough. I think they should be extended by at least 25%.
I want a trap that stuns.
I want a melee skill that stuns/slows and give a 2.5 second speed buff to allow for renewed ranged attacks.
I want traits to go beyond the present 10 cap.
I want pots that clear all wounds/fears, what have you, per use.
I want to be able to trait for further reducing induction times on certain skills.
I want to kite and shoot with decent dps.

I would be interested in bows that do different damage at different ranges, like shortbow-longbow.
If there is a "pet" in my future, make it a utility pet, not a buffing pet. (storage or tracking, in that line).

[drexele]

okay now ive seen zcs post i feel much better and now i want to make some possible suggestions and corrections towards my past posts

one when i say new skills i dont neccasarily mean ad new skills i mean make them inproved like improved swift bow

also someone mentioned they want traps that stun, we do its a crafted one tripwire ive used one on a lvl 50+ boss and he got cought and knocked out (best fight ive had with him)

on the topic of improved skills id like to purpose an improved BA (there may be a legacy for this already if there is plz say so) it would NOT NERF dmg for it or any others and would do a bleed or leach to the enemies power now this i would think would make it very usefull moors (not sure though since ive never done it before) plus if it was made i leach it would help making will/fate still important but allows for a bit more agility or even vit, now im probly abou to get yelled the heck at against this but i have talked to a 65 hunter in my kin and he liked the idea and i want to restate IT WOULD NOT NERF DAMAGE AT ALL

i would like at least one or two posts about the BA wether in be negative or postive

[Waxe]

I think the better option is for you to stick with your original idea for the Huntsman to be a melee/ranged hybrid. How exactly will you explain how melee attacks increase focus? So I hit something with my sword for a bit and now all of a sudden I am better able to sheathe my sword, pull out a bow, knock and arrow and get off a higher damaging bow attack? Why?

My thoughts exactly.

[Milliana]

I am looking forward to checking out the changes. Precision FTW!

[Aestis25]

Basically, allow the class to fluidly swap between melee and ranged and gain benefits for doing so, while giving it even more mobility and induction-less attacks.

In theory, these would be a welcome direction shift in my eyes. The greatest underlying criticism of the Hunter class has always been the monotony of standing in one place and pew-pew'ing, rotating between only 3 skills the entire time. The latter part of that, in my opinion, has been very positively addressed the past couple updates. We have more viable DPS skills than ever. The first still applies. I agree more mobility/versatility for the class would be fun, on paper. I'm sure many of us had images of a mobile ranger type running through our heads when we first rolled the class, before MMO class archetypes of inductions & DPS parsing blocked out the forest for the trees.

The concern is that, while the Bowmaster line is a fun & perfectly viable trait line (I use it plenty), being able to fire off a bunch of shots in Precision while traited down the Huntsman line is a lot of fun, too. We don't want to lose that. If the two lines are consolidated into Bowmaster as sort of a "Stand here and blow it up" line, with Huntsman becoming the Mobility/Melee line, and Trapper remaining CC: ok, fine. Just make sure you don't lose all of what makes the Huntsman line fun.


Oh, and thank you Zombie, not just for the always-welcomed dev feedback, but for actually getting the class from a player's perspective.

[Taoron]

I'm at work so I have not been through all of the responses but from what I can see, I agree with most of what I saw on the first 4 pages or so. Please, don't make us a melee class. That's just....wrong. Please don't take away the CC. Again, wrong. It looks like the idea is coming from a stance that all of us are of the same schools of thought and play style and that's simply not the case. Not everyone is constantly running endgame. Not everyone is a PvPer. Some of us like to play solo and be able to have a goodly amount of CC for survivability. I'll gladly sacrifice some DPS to be able to control 3 or 4 mobs at a time or even take down an elite when I have to, solo.

Please leave the hunters alone. Pretty please with Old Toby on top.

[arvaethor1]

ZC thank you so much for coming here and sharing your thoughts and reading our feedback.

1) I think adding more melee DPS or adding new skills that do useful damage is a welcome idea. I like the idea of meele attacks generating focus.
2) some other posters mentioned no bow shots in ranged. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS. I do not want this game to become wow, where i need to kite nonstop as my hunter. I hate that, and dont find it fun. . I enjoy standing in place shooting my bow at a mob. Kiting is ok for boss's and elites etc etc, but not always as a rule of thumb.

Just to give you additional feedback, I use Strength stance (4R/3B) exclusively for the landscape and questing. (3R/4B) Huntsman for Raiding/grouping like most everyone else, and the Trapper line has never appealed to me. Your enhancements for it sound awesome ! Some of the traits are nice and fun for leveling, but at the end game they are simply not good enough (My opinion and yours as well it seems).

Keep up the good work !

[NameAlreadyTaken]

The concern is that, while the Bowmaster line is a fun & perfectly viable trait line (I use it plenty), being able to fire off a bunch of shots in Precision while traited down the Huntsman line is a lot of fun, too. We don't want to lose that. If the two lines are consolidated into Bowmaster as sort of a "Stand here and blow it up" line, with Huntsman becoming the Mobility/Melee line, and Trapper remaining CC: ok, fine. Just make sure you don't lose all of what makes the Huntsman line fun.

You must spread some reputation around blahblahblah

Well said.

[myforumacc]

Has anybody realized how hunters can be raid leaders alot of the time, in the moors atleast? I say, if we're gonna captain, we should prob get something in a line that gives every1 within a 10m radius +3 hope or sumtin :P
That'll be so totally awesome! /Squeal!

[Daeloth07]

[...] Next, I want to give a big thankyou to the whole Hunter community here. The debate and discussion has been very helpful! [...]

[...] Bowmaster: [...]

[...] Huntsman: [...]

[...] Trapper of Foes: [...]

[...] I think that's the important stuff. I'm going to be out for two weeks after this, so don't expect any more info any time soon. Please do continue discussing things, talking about what you want and don't want, and focus on examples, not hyperbole

And again: We have to thank you ^^

I want...
...to have the possibility to trait for high dps through speed and focus generation (as currently huntsmen do)
...to have the possibility to use the above mentioned setting in raid enviroment,
without a major damage loss compared to bowmaster if i want to stay at range.
(because of the melee/ranged combination, you'd mantioned)
...to have a true utilltiy Line, your ideas for Trapper of Foes sound awesome.
...to have a quiver as legendary class item instead of the melee weapon (what are the odds to get that? I bet they are slim ^^).
...an alternative to the amber ring which i'm wearing since level 56.
...some traits removed and/or added as passive skills to have space for new ones (heightened senses for example).
...combined crit magnitude and powercost reduction legacies so they apply to both: induction and focus attacks
...more buffs which support ranged attacks (through other classes or self buffs)
...some true benefits from Stance: Endurance (Its pretty useless for the time being)
...to have "Bards Arrow" as a normal skill and get a new, true legendary skill.
...to get more advantages from "Bow of the Righteous" b/c its legendary (like the RK's "Martial Training" or the LM's "Sword and Staff")!
...some possibility for better threat managment.
...to be even faster than in full Huntsmen + Fleetness + Needful Haste (like the rush)

[Suggestion for some of my wishes]

• Maybe different speed through bow and crossbow?
• Maybe +0,5% crit chance or +1% damage for every focus point stored in Huntsmen?
• Maybe every crit in Huntsmen could lower the targets ranged defense to a certain point?
• Maybe a skill to appear in front of the enemy to hit him in melee range and automatically teleport
  back to the last position after that attack?
• Maybe remove class traits: "Heightened Senses", "Heart of the Bard" (A class trait which need a legendary skill, really?), Graceful Draw (does anyone use this trait or even endurance stance?)
• Maybe merge class traits: "Sturdy Traps" and "Combat Traps", "Strong Draw" and "Arrow Storm"

I don't want...
...to play with the slow Bowmaster line to deal high ranged damage in raids.
...to get hurt form the enemies AoE attacks because i run into melee range to benefit from the mentioned melee buffs in Huntsmen.
...useless legacies on the legendary items (for example: moralregeneration during strenght of the earth)
...Huntsmen as a solo build. Because i got a a focus consuming, swift and ranged playstyle. Don't take that away through nasty melee attacks.

In generel i love your ideas and I'm glad that you're in control now, ZC.

I don't like Bowmaster (as written: to slow) but there are denfinitely some nice buffs coming up.

What you'd planed for Huntsmen will be awesome for PvP and Solo Hunters.
I hope you won't forget the ones who want to Raid with Huntmen (swiftly, yay ).

I'm looking forward to the new trapper of foes, as said: awesome!
Don't have an idea for that, but: Some sort of unique group support skill in ToF would be cool,
so a yellow hunter will be desired in group play.

PS: At the moment the powerconsum in Huntsmen feels higher than in Bowmaster.

[trogg]

Forage skill:
Hunters need abilty to forage for food. Wild mushrooms, asparagus, leeks, ramps, etc...things only obtainable by hunters..... for self buffs and group buffs....also medical foraging for weeds and medicinal plants for group buffs such as resists, antidotes, etc....

We need to be more suitable and desirable for group play in instances:
Need to make hunters tracking more desirable and useful to groups and raids, able to detect traps(should be implemented to make hunters needed in more instances), are survival skills need to be better implemented for group support.

Poison Removal:
We need to make group poison removal not dependant on equipping a trait. It needs to be something given at lvl 65 for our support requirement in groups and raids.

Pet:
Hunters should be able to have a hunting companion such as a dogs, birds of prey(falconry), ferrets, etc.....

New Class Items:
Caltrops need to be a class weapon for hunter...would along lines of trap but instead of rooting just used to do damage and movement debuff.
Poison doing DOT and power debuffs to enemies.

Better Implementaion of DOT attacks...we need bleed, fire, light DOT attacks to be more powerful and noticeable. Also we need the abilty to use poisons as dot attacks. Poisons should be a hunter class item.

LVL 65 in combat speed buff

also a better out of combat speed buff at lvl 65

[Lithium777]

Forage skill:
Hunters need abilty to forage for food. Wild mushrooms, asparagus, leeks, ramps, etc...things only obtainable by hunters..... for self buffs and group buffs....also medical foraging for weeds and medicinal plants for group buffs such as resists, antidotes, etc....

Very good idea, I like this alot... would love to see this

Pet:
Hunters should be able to have a hunting companion such as a dogs, birds of prey(falconry), ferrets, etc.....

This is not another MMO, I do not want this to be another MMO. Please don't make this another MMO. Keep it LotRO. Pets are for LM and/or Captains. I don't want to HAVE to manage this on hunter.

New Class Items:
Caltrops need to be a class weapon for hunter...would along lines of trap but instead of rooting just used to do damage and movement debuff.
Poison doing DOT and power debuffs to enemies.

Better Implementaion of DOT attacks...we need bleed, fire, light DOT attacks to be more powerful and noticeable. Also we need the abilty to use poisons as dot attacks. Poisons should be a hunter class item.

This was stated awhile ago but poison will never be usable by the free peoples.

[Waxe]

Forage skill:
Hunters need abilty to forage for food. Wild mushrooms, asparagus, leeks, ramps, etc...things only obtainable by hunters..... for self buffs and group buffs....also medical foraging for weeds and medicinal plants for group buffs such as resists, antidotes, etc....

We need to be more suitable and desirable for group play in instances:
Need to make hunters tracking more desirable and useful to groups and raids, able to detect traps(should be implemented to make hunters needed in more instances), are survival skills need to be better implemented for group support.

Poison Removal:
We need to make group poison removal not dependant on equipping a trait. It needs to be something given at lvl 65 for our support requirement in groups and raids.

Pet:
Hunters should be able to have a hunting companion such as a dogs, birds of prey(falconry), ferrets, etc.....

New Class Items:
Caltrops need to be a class weapon for hunter...would along lines of trap but instead of rooting just used to do damage and movement debuff.
Poison doing DOT and power debuffs to enemies.

Better Implementaion of DOT attacks...we need bleed, fire, light DOT attacks to be more powerful and noticeable. Also we need the abilty to use poisons as dot attacks. Poisons should be a hunter class item.

LVL 65 in combat speed buff

also a better out of combat speed buff at lvl 65

I don't think more buffs are needed, and I don't think a forage skill would be that great for what it would take to implement.

Hunters are DPS, Lore Masters are the support. If you want to be a support and not DPS, then you need to trait for support.

There are soooooooooo many threads on pets, look them up sometime. But, just no.

Caltrops are pretty much like what burglar's have, the cool down on them makes the worthless.

[NotYetMeasured]

Being new to the game I cant articulate discussion to the degree a lot of you have, you have been playing longer then I. What baffles me about the hunter is when a mob gets to close range my stongest attack is still a bow shot (at lvl 19 anyway). This dosent seem logical at all, particularly if the intent was and is to model the class after legalos.

I'm not sure which Legolas you are referring to, but I prefer the Legolas from the movie. If a mob comes in melee range, take your arrow and poke it in their eye and/or throat. I guess that's more Bow & Arrow than Bow & Blade...



.

[haroldhnicholos]

stop messing around with changing the same class over and over and get working on new pvp classes/maps geez