What are Bugans really?

[Berephon]

There is no such thing. in Middle Earth all Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, Uruks, etc. are evil, twisted beings by their very nature. Humans can choose to do good or evil, they can fall and they can be redeemed. But the orcish races are evil at their core and are not capable of "good" nor of redemption. At best, they might do something that seems "nice" or that serves the greater good out of fear or selfishness.

This is correct, as well.

[Berephon]

Thanks for answering, but cast out from where? And from who? I never seen goblins dress like hobbits before....

Have you seen goblins that have been stripped of their gear and shoved out into the world? Also, remember that Tolkien's Orcs/goblins are much more human in appearance (according to Tolkien) than how any other medium has represented them (including our own.)

Ever consider where they might have gotten their clothing?

[djheydt]

Have you seen goblins that have been stripped of their gear and shoved out into the world? Also, remember that Tolkien's Orcs/goblins are much more human in appearance (according to Tolkien) than how any other medium has represented them (including our own.)

Ever consider where they might have gotten their clothing?

Same place they got everything else they drop, of course. Looted from people they killed (and, presumably, ate). WHY they keep broken sword-hilts and shabby sword-sheaths and stuff is debatable; perhaps they hope they can come in handy some day? They also drop occasional Scholar materials, which they probably collect for use as toilet paper.

[Salahn]

They also drop occasional Scholar materials, which they probably collect for use as toilet paper.

Thanks for that, I'm going to have to change profession now ;p

[jewahe]

Thanks for that, I'm going to have to change profession now ;p

Don't use Bugan-dropped mats to make potions.

[TheOneRinger]

And here I had always thought that I was the one breaking their gear (swordsheaths, hauberks, etc.). Like mine gets broken when I'm defeated.

[Eryendil]

And here I had always thought that I was the one breaking their gear (swordsheaths, hauberks, etc.). Like mine gets broken when I'm defeated.

Just be thankful they aren't as efficient at looting our corpses when we get defeated!!

[Calta]

You're all wrong.

The ninja-Aussie on Turbine's staff, responsible for a number of Australian references and in-jokes in LotRO, simply substituted a "u" for the "o", rendering Bogans as Bugans.

Bogans are native to the outer suburbs of Melbourne. They traditionally wear an un-buttoned flanelette red- or blue-chequered shirt over a singlet, style their hair into mullets, smoke Winfield Blue (or Red), drink Victoria Bitter and get into brawls over whether or not holdens are better than Fords.

lol beat me!
In fact, I misread the thread title at first-thought 'what have bogans to do with the Lore ?!
Thanks for the laugh.
PS: I dare you start a thread about whether bugans are a corrupted form of sharpie......
<sorry folks -inappropriate regional humour >

[DemonicLemming]

I'm still going with my initial impression - zombie hobbits.

[Reillan]

There is no such thing. in Middle Earth all Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, Uruks, etc. are evil, twisted beings by their very nature. Humans can choose to do good or evil, they can fall and they can be redeemed. But the orcish races are evil at their core and are not capable of "good" nor of redemption. At best, they might do something that seems "nice" or that serves the greater good out of fear or selfishness.

The Bugans are, however, slightly twisted off the mainline of goblins... point of fact: they wear neat and clean clothes

So they may be more civilized than other goblins, and, as you say, are able then to feign "niceness" - or at least manage not to attack for the sake of knowing you can wipe them out with a single sching-sching.

[Brethwyn_EU]

Have you seen goblins that have been stripped of their gear and shoved out into the world? Also, remember that Tolkien's Orcs/goblins are much more human in appearance (according to Tolkien) than how any other medium has represented them (including our own.)

Ever consider where they might have gotten their clothing?

Fair enough. But they must at least be a more intelligent breed of Goblins, wanting to dress like others. And they even look more like Hobbits than the other Goblins in the game, so these are a peculiar race indeed :P

[droid]

This is correct, as well.

Not exactly...in fact in his letters Tolkien specifically said he avoided using the term "irredeemable" in reference to the Orcs:

'On the subject of orc redeemability Tolkien wrote in one of his letters "I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making — necessary to their actual existence — even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today." In Morgoth's Ring, Tolkien suggests that Orcs, while not irredeemable, may not be redeemable by Elves or Men.'

I'm guessing the same applies to Bugans and Hobbits, though the cheery little buggers sure tried

[droid]

Fair enough. But they must at least be a more intelligent breed of Goblins, wanting to dress like others. And they even look more like Hobbits than the other Goblins in the game, so these are a peculiar race indeed :P

I think you're underestimating Goblin intelligence in general...they're crude and uncivilized, but they're also fiendishly clever and ingenious. While they may, by and large, prefer more direct methods and open hostility, I dont think subterfuge or deception - like trying to 'seem' like Hobbits - is that exceptional a trait among Goblin-kind, at least when outright violence and mayhem is not a possibility (ie, you've been cast out from your tribe and lose your strength of numbers).

[Lilka]

Have you seen goblins that have been stripped of their gear and shoved out into the world? Also, remember that Tolkien's Orcs/goblins are much more human in appearance (according to Tolkien) than how any other medium has represented them (including our own.)

This is the bit that always gets me thinking. That fan-written piece released in Europe, for example, where Saruman and his men were simply men of science, reason and logic and the Elves, Gandalf and Co were men of faith, magic and the old ways. The story was written from the perspective of the orcs, who were not warped or hideous. They were just men persecuted for their different belief system.

History gets written by the winners, etc

Then there's the articles on whether Tolkien's references to strong, dark-skinned humanoids with gutteral languages are a whole lot more 'allegory' than Tolkien ever admitted. Not saying I agree or disagree, but they make for interesting reading nonetheless. Besides I couldn't enjoy the game anymore if it was ever shown that 'orcs' was basically a catch-all term for non-white races.

[Radhruin_EU]

Besides I couldn't enjoy the game anymore if it was ever shown that 'orcs' was basically a catch-all term for non-white races.

Well, the Haradrim have 'dark faces' (as described by Gollum) and Tolkien handles them sympathetically: like the one whose body Sam sees in Ithilien, where Sam is described as wondering whether that Man had wanted to be there or not, whether he might have wanted to stay at home in peace and instead been forced to go to war. That humanises the enemy, the Men at least; we're given to understand they're not all bad. The Orcs are another story, the more we see of them the more repellent they become.

Orcs were an image of debased humanity in general: they're us, at our worst. Tolkien said that "we were all Orcs in the Great War", thus tarring himself with that same brush. They're victims, of course, but they've been so brutalised that they have no shred of conscience or remorse and will do evil not just willingly but gladly. 'Orcs' appear in any conflict, it's just that the real-world ones look human on the outside.

[SixFootDwarf]

As I recall, goblins are described as clever, liking clever strategems and mechanisms and being quite brave when the odds are in their favor. We see them at their worst in the game, out in the world away from their underground strongholds. I have always considered it a nice touch on Turbine's part that some of the best random recipie drops I have gotten have come from Goblins, an indication that there is more to them than "Kill, kill, kill. . . Oh no, Diiiee."

[hockeypux]

I wonder if they have a Bilbo Bugans.

[Nemulas]

I'm sure i read somewhere in game to the effect that they were isolated and had become more like men, hence the snappy dressing.

To me they look like the cast of Bugsy Malone, all they need are some cigars, cut throat razors and "chicago typewriters" to complete the look.

Now the question is, what are they isolated from ?

The main Orc and Goblin tribes of Mordor/Isengard/Misty mountains? Yes.

The Dark Lord/Saruman's influence? possibly.

It begs the question what becomes of Orcs and Goblins after the fall of Sauron. Do they go the way of Bugans, finally becoming indistinguishable from and infiltrating with normal brigands and human criminality?

Or go the way of all "the other speaking peoples of middle earth" in "the fourth age" and "decline"?