Dev Diary Feedback: Rise of Isengard: Burglar Developer Diary

[Celestrata]

When we first looked at the Burglar it became apparent that overall the class was in pretty good shape. Because the Burglar had fairly recently had a ‘Month of’ update we decided to keep the changes focused around polishing some of the rough edges. Read more in the latest Developer Diary from Tim 'Raskolnikov' Lang and post your comments here!

[Cirdan]

I'm not a fan of giving dual-wielding and medium armor to Burglars from the get-go.

I think the game is a lot more fun when you progress from lower abilities to higher abilities. You feel like you're actually "learning" or gaining knowledge. Giving players all of their passive abilities from the get-go seems to undermine this. I was able to level my burg without any difficult, I don't see this change doing anything other than taking away some of the sense of accomplishment.

[SnakeShaker]

Level 66: Improved Riddle – Riddle doesn’t break Sneak when used.Level 66: Improved Riddle – Riddle doesn’t break Sneak when used.

Seriously? Why? What's behind that change? To run around in the moors and bug people? Doesn't the burg has enough annoying skills?

Burglars can now use “Riddle” and “Confound” on any creature type (ie; any genus).
Level 74: Improved Startling Twist – Now affects up to three targets that are affected by Tricks.

Does any of you guys care about pvp in that game?

[Armisayl191]

I'm not a fan of giving dual-wielding and medium armor to Burglars from the get-go.

I think the game is a lot more fun when you progress from lower abilities to higher abilities. You feel like you're actually "learning" or gaining knowledge. Giving players all of their passive abilities from the get-go seems to undermine this. I was able to level my burg without any difficult, I don't see this change doing anything other than taking away some of the sense of accomplishment.

It's only level 10, I don't really see what the big deal is. It's not a sense of accomplishment if you hit level 10 and learn dual wield and medium armor, its just something they should start with anyways. I know people who hated leveling the burglar until they got dual wield at level 10, just makes things more fun, and makes more people inclined to play a burglar since the first 10 levels are better.

[Armisayl191]

Seriously? Why? What's behind that change? To run around in the moors and bug people? Doesn't the burg has enough annoying skills?



Does any of you guys care about pvp in that game?

If those changes only bother you because of PvP, shouldn't you play a game that is more PvP focused? This game is not, and will not ever be, PvP focused. There are PLENTY of games for that.

If it still bothers you, tell the creeps to play smarter, if a Burglar is being attacked by 3 creeps, and he throws a trick on all of them, and they all get hit with startling twist, that's their fault.

The riddle change is fantastic for PvE. Why should we PvEr's not gain a fantastic skill upgrade because of how it affects PvP in a PvE focused game?

[bastiat1]

It's all buffs so not much to complain about if you play a QK Burg. They will be even more dangerous in the Moors and largely self-sufficient everywhere else. I can use Subtle Stab a lot during a Glee cooldown. Makes that Glee swap bag even more useful.

If you wanted to become a MM Burg- probably still not enough for you. My only disappointment is that I mistakenly thought all of the captsones in the crit response chain were going to be delinked from the chain. Looks like it is only for traited one. Not a big deal either way really.

[RedMeister]

"Riddle" and "Confound" working on all creatures really makes sense.

NOT.

Since when could one tell a riddle to an irrational creature?

[SnakeShaker]

If those changes only bother you because of PvP, shouldn't you play a game that is more PvP focused? This game is not, and will not ever be, PvP focused. There are PLENTY of games for that.

So you say the Improved Riddle is a pve skill? In which specific situation at pve would it be useful to give a npc a daze and stay unseen? Tell me just one.

If it still bothers you, tell the creeps to play smarter, if a Burglar is being attacked by 3 creeps, and he throws a trick on all of them, and they all get hit with startling twist, that's their fault.

Oh, it's their own fault. Don't be ridiculous.

The riddle change is fantastic for PvE. Why should we PvEr's not gain a fantastic skill upgrade because of how it affects PvP in a PvE focused game?

Disable it at pvp. Problem solved.

[Astaldor]

"Riddle" and "Confound" working on all creatures really makes sense.

NOT.

Since when could one tell a riddle to an irrational creature?

Wargs and other creatures (like the Eagles for instance) can talk.. So it makes sense.

[Cirdan]

It's only level 10, I don't really see what the big deal is. It's not a sense of accomplishment if you hit level 10 and learn dual wield and medium armor, its just something they should start with anyways. I know people who hated leveling the burglar until they got dual wield at level 10, just makes things more fun, and makes more people inclined to play a burglar since the first 10 levels are better.

It's not an "amazing" accomplishment, but it helps to make the player feel like they've "earned" something and creates a sense of "learning" about being a Burglar. The idea being that they had to master one weapon before they could adequately wield two. Classes are easy enough to level right now. Players can get level 10 soon enough with or without dual-wield.

This change obviously won't make or break anything. I was just putting in my two cents on why I think the game would be more immersing and enjoyable for new burgs if they didn't make this change.

[Braul]

AHhh...creep tears...nom nom nom.. ahh yes, they taste so good.. nom nom.

[Armisayl191]

So you say the Improved Riddle is a pve skill? In which specific situation at pve would it be useful to give a npc a daze and stay unseen? Tell me just one.



Oh, it's their own fault. Don't be ridiculous.



Disable it at pvp. Problem solved.

Just one? Okay. How about when you're soloing and you go to pull multiple mobs. There's 2-3 mobs standing together. Sneak up, riddle one, surprise attack the other. Bam. One mob is dazed and you got a nice big crit to start on the other mob.

The fact that you couldn't come up with that idea makes me wonder if you've even leveled a burglar.

Yes, letting a burglar stun all 3 of you IS your fault. Whose else would it be? Why do PvPers always immediately jump onto blaming the skill design but never blaming themselves for getting beat?

[Armisayl191]

It's not an "amazing" accomplishment, but it helps to make the player feel like they've "earned" something and creates a sense of "learning" about being a Burglar. The idea being that they had to master one weapon before they could adequately wield two. Classes are easy enough to level right now. Players can get level 10 soon enough with or without dual-wield.

This change obviously won't make or break anything. I was just putting in my two cents on why I think the game would be more immersing and enjoyable for new burgs if they didn't make this change.

I understand what you mean, but where you think it would be more enjoyable and immersing for burgs to make you learn it at level 10, there's probably an equal amount of burgs or new players who feel that it'd be more enjoyable or immersing to start off with the abilities.

Just my two cents

[Bradegor]

With the change of Agility being the main source of dmg, Might should be now an useless stat for Burglars, unless they want to pump up Parry. So i guess we will be able to see strong numbers of Agility/Vitality burglars. Despite not many changes (for PvE, that is, for PvP some are amazing and make Burglars even more the best class in there), this alone should indirectly help Burglars alot.

[opurt]

•Level 66: Improved Riddle – Riddle doesn’t break Sneak when used.

Wow, I think this is crazy! Basically you can pull one mob out of a group since you'll still be stealthed and the others won't be able to aggro anything. This will change the way a lot of groups do pulls in instances and raids I bet. It'll be very interesting to see if/how this works.

[OptimusPrimeRib]

The riddle and capstone changes are great and brings some nice class versatility. The polish on MM is nice, I'd like to have seen a bit more but I'll take it. The new subtle stab will give me more chances to rage about not getting the power return. Improved sneak not working with FA seems like a skill you should get in the lvl 30ish area imo as it would see a lot of use for solo questing/leveling.

[Tron79]

If a Burglar is being attacked by 3 creeps, and he throws a trick on all of them, and they all get hit with startling twist, that's their fault.

Because AOE dust in the eye+startling twist will be so easy to avoid?

[ANewMachine]

So you say the Improved Riddle is a pve skill? In which specific situation at pve would it be useful to give a npc a daze and stay unseen? Tell me just one.

Seriously? OK. So now SS and CA auto-crit from stealth. This is huge. So I'm coming up on a camp of 3 mobs, all with linked aggro. Riddle one from stealth, auto-crit SS on #2, kill #2 with my crit chain, start killing up the other til SS is off CD, then IFA -> SS crit. Probably get in two kills before the riddle ends, with no problems, thanks to the stealth auto-crit.

[Fasin]

With the change of Agility being the main source of dmg, Might should be now an useless stat for Burglars, unless they want to pump up Parry. So i guess we will be able to see strong numbers of Agility/Vitality burglars. Despite not many changes (for PvE, that is, for PvP some are amazing and make Burglars even more the best class in there), this alone should indirectly help Burglars alot.

I don't know what Might/Agility you're talking about, Agility boosts parry, Might does not.


Also, amazing changes.

[Ethrnldoom]

might does contribute to parry, to the above, but not as much as agility, either that or it is shared between the two equally.

[bastiat1]

I don't know what Might/Agility you're talking about, Agility boosts parry, Might does not.

Nope. Might and Agility both increase Parry. Parry Rating = Might + Agility

Evade Rating = 2 * Agility
Block Rating = 2 * Might

[Armisayl191]

Because AOE dust in the eye+startling twist will be so easy to avoid?

Isn't startling twist as easy to avoid as just taking a step back? It's what, a 3m range? Dust in the eyes is pretty easy to see coming. Heck, you should PREPARE for this exact situation. If all 3 creeps are standing right on a burglar now, yeah its their fault. The burglar has how many ranged skills?

[NKolev]

How can one riddle an animal.
How can one pose a riddle to someone when invisible.
OK so sense is no longer an element of this game.... i see....

P.S. Even WoW's rogue makes more sense than the burglar nowadays!!!

[red_five]

Isn't startling twist as easy to avoid as just taking a step back? It's what, a 3m range? Dust in the eyes is pretty easy to see coming. Heck, you should PREPARE for this exact situation. If all 3 creeps are standing right on a burglar now, yeah its their fault. The burglar has how many ranged skills?

take a step back where? into another stealthed burg who riddles you and stays in stealth. don't need any range if you can escape any and all fights whenever you feel like things wont go your way.

good thing burgs are getting some more love, times have been really rough on those guys in the moors lately

[Tron79]

Isn't startling twist as easy to avoid as just taking a step back? It's what, a 3m range? Dust in the eyes is pretty easy to see coming. Heck, you should PREPARE for this exact situation. If all 3 creeps are standing right on a burglar now, yeah its their fault. The burglar has how many ranged skills?

Easy enough if you see the burg... they have a funny way of sneaking up on you though, not to mention dust in the eyes slows you as well. Just makes there ability to pop into group kill and HIPS before being killed that much easier.

And any improvements to the burg are going to cause groans from creeps players seeing as they are already viewed as OP/easymode.