Dev Diary Feedback: Rise of Isengard: Burglar Developer Diary

[slack_n_hash]

Mischief Maker: There is an additional 4-set bonus which reduces the Cooldown of all Tricks by 5 seconds.

This has potential, if only we had an 8th class trait slot.

We obviously received very little dev time, which makes me sad.

Number of new skills added: 0
Number of old skills removed: 1

... so at least we gain a quickslot back!

[Evendale]

This has potential, if only we had an 8th class trait slot.

We obviously received very little dev time, which makes me sad.

Number of new skills added: 0
Number of old skills removed: 1

... so at least we gain a quickslot back!

Lol.

Yea the 0s cd on RW & tricks is something I asked for several times, so I'm pretty happy they added that. At 4 deep in MM though I can't imagine I'll trait that way very often. But at least the option is there.

I guess when MM does finally get a proper revamp one day, it'll be that much more awesome.

[Grimbran]

This has potential, if only we had an 8th class trait slot.

We obviously received very little dev time, which makes me sad.

Number of new skills added: 0
Number of old skills removed: 1

... so at least we gain a quickslot back!

Geez, enough of the negativity already. Sure, I saw through the line about burgs being in a good place already too. Translates to "there is only 5 weeks or so left till release, and we didn't get time for real burg revamping in. Spent it all on more popular classes". They are a business after all, and we are a hard class to buff without making us unbalanced, so not a problem. I would have loved to see a little more TLC spent on MM and TG lines too, but at least MM got something. I was convinced it would remain untouched, lol. The two MM line changes are powerful ones, nonetheless. The 4-trait one is a serious buff for debuffing, but only two other people in 4 pages noticed it.

From a gaming site/magazine interview (sorry I don't have the link handy) they announced that we were getting an 8th class slot. I'd love a dev to confirm it via the forums though.

And lets not skew things by leaving out info we don't want to acknowledge shall we?
Number of new skills added: 0
Number of old skills removed: 1
Number of old skills improved: 7 (and real gameplay improvements here, not just tooltip/animation changes)
Number of old skills nerfed: 1

All in all a pretty solid update for PvE burgs. Great updates for newbie burgs too, I always thought it was dumb to make a dual-wield and medium armor class start with only one weapon and light armor. Made no sense, so that's a great change. Could have been better as far as spreading the love across all the traitlines instead of just QK and a little touch on MM, but we got a lot of buffs and some powerful ones at that.

For PvMP, I don't know what to say. Several of these changes are gonna be serious buffs in the moors for a class that didn't need moors buffs. Though I have to agree with the poster who said earlier that in a Burg vs 3 that it is the creeps own fault if all 3 get caught in a S-Twist stun. Both DITE and S-Twist are frontal-arc melee aoe skills. Spread out a bit and/or attack from diff sides, and it can't happen. Staying stacked up in one spot is just asking for trouble against any class that has aoe, not just burgs.

That aside though, burgs will be embarrassingly powerful in RoI in the moors.

[Tuorvorn]

I imagine this big pvmp update they have mentioned taking place soon after the expansion is going to in part be a revamp of powers, in terms of having powers have different effects in the moors vs. pve. If I was a creep, I would not be worried about these burglar additions. (they are not in stone now either anyway)

[Toligrim]

While DITE's range can be buffed a little via a LI legacy, S-Twist cant and is short ranged. Spread out a bit and/or attack from diff sides, and it can't happen. Staying stacked up in one spot is just asking for trouble against any class that has aoe, not just burgs.

Startling twist as well as all other trick removals have the same range as tricks. (Both effected by +trick range.)

[Anoir]

Great changes, the Auto Crit from Stealth is awesome, I agree that with Feint it would been to OP, its good the way it is now. 3 target Startling twist will be nice with AOE dust, first time Ill actyally think seriosly about traiting AOE dust.. good change again.

The subtle stab reduces cooldown on heal/power heal is nice, i still think you could up the % of the power return to say 30% (even with a LI legacy) on the heal but Ill take this happily. Riddle able to use on all type of mobs welcomed, although you have to rename "Riddle" to something else then Also the from stealth Riddle is nice, it will open a new way to test some harder multimob pulls while soloing.

Leg. Trait aka Capstone not being in the crit chain is also welcomed, never really liked them being in the critchain tbh, GJ. Improved CD is good change for grouping, pushing our debuffing abit more is always nice.

Overall Im happy about the changes

But just one question... you gonna fix Gambler trait line or not? I dont mean redesigning it.. just fixing it. HINT: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...42#post5406642

[Hirandiel]

Seriously? Why? What's behind that change? To run around in the moors and bug people? Doesn't the burg has enough annoying skills?



Does any of you guys care about pvp in that game?

PvP centered games are that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[slack_n_hash]

Yea the 0s cd on RW & tricks is something I asked for several times, so I'm pretty happy they added that. At 4 deep in MM though I can't imagine I'll trait that way very often.

Actually, the 0s cd on Fast skills immediately made me think of you. Gonna be fun to play around with!

Geez, enough of the negativity already.

Sorry. I am looking forward to RoI, and will enjoy playing my Burg with or without these changes.

From a gaming site/magazine interview (sorry I don't have the link handy) they announced that we were getting an 8th class slot. I'd love a dev to confirm it via the forums though.

That would be very good news.

And lets not skew things by leaving out info we don't want to acknowledge shall we?

LOL. My point was that they are really just fiddling with existing skills.



My view derives from asking myself (a PvE, grouping, QKer):

How Will RoI Affect My Choices/Decisions?

• Build - trade Might for Agility
• Virtues - same
• Traits - same (5 QK + 2 MM, 99% of the time)
• Legendary Traits - same (crit chain enders + QK Cap)
• Debuffs - same, except mezzing beasts etc (I like!!!!)
• Rotation - iFA earlier, for Aim+FB+CA; already spam ss, so more Glee

New capabilities:

• Stealth open for auto-crit - not worth the extra time to move to the mob
• Stealth mez - wouldn't risk pulling, and would use Mischief if chain-mezzing
• AoE Stun - not worth traiting AoE Dust or applying 3 tricks for 8 sec stun on trash

I'll test the new stuff out on the way to 75, and hope that I find more use because I actually like change.

[Cliford]

With the 100% crit from stealth, whats with trait with +5% crit chance from stealth? Will be a little useless. Do we will get something instead?

[mptyspace]

With the 100% crit from stealth, whats with trait with +5% crit chance from stealth? Will be a little useless. Do we will get something instead?

useful for any other skills from out of stealth, and let's not forget improved feint attack.

I'm very happy about these changes, especially the subtle stab change to reduce mischievous glee cooldown on successful hits.

Burgs are become more and more cc though.. mischief maker can lock down 3 targets.. gambler 4 with some sense and luck.

would love to see another trick added with a nice effect, but hey, can't wish m all

[Rosey713]

Burg pwnage with whipped cream on top...

nom nom nom nom.

[ThePuzzler]

Changes look good all and all. Gambler could still use some love on Damaging gambles' DPS and the MM capstone could be buffed a few percent to justify the Burgs lost DPS by traiting MM but other than that awesome.

To all the creeps whining about Riddle from Stealth and AoE Startling Twist etc. Anti-stun pots and diminishing returns are there for a reason.

more crying creeps )

but i am little bit disappointed, that there are no changes for broken gambler line..

and so another generic rogue Archetype in another clone mmo.


Anyway, no love for Gambler, you know the thing that makes your Burglar stand out from the crowd?
I at least would have expected a change so our Debuff Gamble could be invoked more or on multiple enemies at once?
After all that's what makes a Gambler stand out, aside from the various (unpractical) mezzes. How about 10% evade boost?

Or how about getting the line clean with whenever a gambler should have a stealth appraoch or not? Leaf walker as a BLUE Trait is just so wrong. Especially the guaranteed 90% maxed disable gamble probability. Two things define the gambler, the not so surety of Gambles and the strenght of the gambles. Most of the time we play our own minigame with applying (or failing) and upgrading the tier of the Gamble. This all must be done outside of STEALTH and the whole game idea doesn't fit the silent assassin stuff at all. Yet we get two stealth traits in our blue line, while the only one's really benefiting from it are not the Gambler players itself.

The best way to prove this miss concept is a DEBUFF gamble, now how many way's are there to start one (even just a chance too!). One is traited on a 1:30 minute cooldown which requires a trick. The other one is from stealth traited. The whole idea about the gambler is to get various effect with not a certain probability. I can't put a debuff gambit on the boss just like that, that's why it is one of the strongest debuffs. Yet i can't really apply it at all since i got only two chances with TWO traits equipped with two awkward ways of initialising it. Either i need to switch to the MM stance the whole fight for having every 2 Minutes one chance to apply it and ruin my whole gambler approach with the wrong stance or use the trait. The other way to initialise the propability of a debuff gamble would be to burgle from stealth, blowing off my HIPS cooldown.

Currently once the fight rages, we are left with an half decent DOT while we sacrificed SO much DPS for going 5Blue and pretend to be useful as DPS. And then there are so many way to put up DISABLING gambits on Bosses which are immun, and neither could we do it on certain adds, because it either takes to long or isn't reliable enough and the raids are not forgiving enough. Disabling gamble is only available through clever retort or using HIPS.

So why bring a blue Burglar along in a raid? QK does damage, MM does reliable CC. We are left with an unreliable mez and most of the time ineffective (immun) a medicore dot and and practically not applyable debuff (from stealth with burgle? seriously?).


Remove the whole "from stealth" part from gambler's traits, make our debuff gambles work with the GAMBLER stance active / other skills.
Just saying everything is "fine" with a burglar just fit's when you want a generic dps rogue 5QK +2X. Everything else is utterly broken.


And what about the "Evasion" offtank of a gambler? Did you consider the change of your game mechanics and how they affect evasion? That 5% get's to be a joke once ROI starts. (Monster (NPC) Finesse, removal of passive evasion skills, 1700 something evasion rate)?

You know if i could apply my debuff gamble (and tier it up - prolong it) properly, then people maybe would say, hey whoa we want a blue burglar, you know he can reduce the damage and attackspeed significantly of a Raidboss.

Disappointing. At least they didn't directly nerf Gambler.

I find gambler's really good as it is. The Glee mezz has saved my neck so many times, and freeing Gambler's Strike from the crit response chain means we can gamble multiple mobs faster. Also, with AoE Twist it should be possible to not only stun, but damage gamble three mobs at once. So it could turn out to be an AoE damage and stun.

Also, with Glee CD reduced Gambler becomes an effective CC line as well. As it stands my non-buffed gamble chance is 55%, with the dev. crit bonus it goes to 95%, so the mezz will work most of the time AND heal me.

So, as it stands, I don't think people realize how good these changes are for not just QK, but Gambler as well. It becomes even more of a survivability line, with AoE DPS with a stun, spammable mezzes, and debuffs.

[Evendale]

Obviously we didn't get a full proper overhaul, but it seems most classes aren't getting that (only Champs/Wardens/Minstrels/Captains).

For just a "polish" of the class though, we got some really nice changes. Rask obviously knows what he's doing unlike the other dev who cannot be named who was responsible for the previous update (the one that was supposedly an in depth update...).

tldr: This update seems really good when you compare it to our last one.

[daph]

I love how so many PVMP players are so quick to cry that a class is totally OP without even thinking about the fact that ALL classes are getting an overhaul. That creep you're so worried about having die to burgs just might be far more OP than the burg. The point is that we don't know yet. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions before Isengard goes live.

I like the sound of the changes in the dev diary. They didn't do as much with Gambler or Mischief Maker as I expected, but the changes sound great to smooth out playstyle in general.

[Nyrion]

I love how so many PVMP players are so quick to cry that a class is totally OP without even thinking about the fact that ALL classes are getting an overhaul. That creep you're so worried about having die to burgs just might be far more OP than the burg. The point is that we don't know yet. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions before Isengard goes live.

I like the sound of the changes in the dev diary. They didn't do as much with Gambler or Mischief Maker as I expected, but the changes sound great to smooth out playstyle in general.

No, they really won't. Perhaps you aren't aware, but there are threads detailing creep updates already, and they don't bring them anywhere near Burglars as they are now, let alone post RoI.

I don't know whether you play a creep, as you do not say so in your sig, but Burglars are overpowered in the Moors right now, buffing them is the absolute worst decision they could have made. Note I say overpowered, NOT unbeatable. Of course Burgs will die on occasion, the problem is they are far harder to kill than any other class in the game(except perhaps Guardians).

As I have already said, I don't care if these changes make their way to PvE, that's fine. But they really do need to be adjusted(read: weakened, severely) when in the Moors. True balance will never be achieved, but that doesn't mean you should just give up trying.

[SnakeShaker]

The Improved Riddle will be the perfect ganking skill. If you don't like someone in the moors, just give him a 15s daze every 60 seconds. Again and again and there is nothing he can do because he can't see you. Is this supposed to be fun, Turbine? WAI?

[zimble]

How can one riddle an animal.
How can one pose a riddle to someone when invisible.
OK so sense is no longer an element of this game.... i see....

P.S. Even WoW's rogue makes more sense than the burglar nowadays!!!

Yes because before this change, the idea that the thing charging toward you with the big knife would listen to you tell a riddle, then put off killing you to stand around having a think about the perplexing riddle makes so much sense....

[Parmur]

deleted because it would be wasted energy...

[ANewMachine]

Yes because before this change, the idea that the thing charging toward you with the big knife would listen to you tell a riddle, then put off killing you to stand around having a think about the perplexing riddle makes so much sense....

Not only that, but it stands around thinking about this while you kill its allies. "Hmm, Gronk, I dunno... 'e sez dere's dese horses on a hill dat champ and stamp 'n stuff... Gronk? Why youz bleedin' so much? How'z youz supposed ta help me wit dis Riddle if you'z all dead 'n stuff?!"

[accent shamelessly stolen from WH40K's Orkz]

[Dyslex]

As a Weaver in the 'Moors, I hate to say it, but the ability to mez us with Riddle does work with the lore. The very fact that Wargs and Spiders can accept and complete quests for their superiors shows that they have the capacity to understand language and can form abstract thought. Further, as previously mentioned in this thread, the more experienced Wargs and Spiders can even speak (and have had their own voice acting added in the game to boot). I wouldn't say that the same is true in PvE, however, as most of the spiders you encounter in Middle-earth are merely single entities functioning in a brood by instinct.

On the gameplay side, however, it is without a doubt a terrible idea to allow burgs to use these abilities in PvP. They will have too much control over the battlefield with little consequence. Let me outline a few instances where this is particularly destructive to Creeps.

1. Impossible fights. A few burgs in a raid could easily hide behind the Creep side of an altercation and pluck off Defilers and Warleaders with riddles while the main Freep group snipes them off or ignores them altogether as the rest of the Creeps go down. For the majority, pots will make no difference in this case, as the burgs have all the time in the world to wait off our immunity with no consequence to themselves for spamming riddles all around. When there is no applicable response to the enemy's strategy in the game other than running around frantically hoping for a stealth alert to show, you know that gameplay is broken.

2. Fight locations. There is very little chance that Freeps will find any group of Creeps smaller than a raid fighting outside of a fortification. Burgs will turn into the boogeyman as Creeps will be constantly mezzed by them in the open with no possible recourse either than turning tail and running, and that's only applicable if the burg hasn't killed it already or that burg pops out of stealth, which will only be the case when the burg believes that he/she can win the fight. Even if the Creep gets a chance to run from the burg, it has no idea which direction the enemy is coming from and will likely run right into it, making pots much less useful. In a solo, every advantage will be given to the burg to choose its fights and harass its opponent with no commitment to the fight in any way (which is the major difference from the burg as it is now; at least there is a small window of vulnerability when using riddle to incapacitate your gank). Right now, afaik, the only ability that a burg can use on a Creep without breaking stealth is RW, which has no effect on the Creep other than alerting it to a nearby burg. In addition, it allows him that chance to pop a skill or run before the hammer falls. With Riddle in stealth, the burg gets time to get its bearings and the upper hand without being seen or sacrificing his stealth critical for using riddle. Which leads to...

3. No more solo creeps. Burgs will likely form the strategy of using a riddle on a Creep to find out if more numbers are around. If no one comes to assist, the burg will drop stealth and that Creep is good as dead. If they do come, then there's no harm to the burg and it can run without wasting a HIPS as is the case now.

I want to be clear that I harbor no ill will towards burg PVP players- they are only using what Turbine has made available for them, and a burg is my main Freep. The real enemy and the object of hostility (if any) should be the people who made these features available and put their collective boot in the face of people who are just wishing to have some amount of control over their success in the game. I believe that the Riddle change will utterly break the already tenuous balance of PvMP in the Moors, with Creeps being constantly affected with what is equivalent to a smiting from the gods that grants invulnerability to its user.

If anyone has a response to my concerns that can be written positively without accusing me of QQing, I would really appreciate it. In a way, we are all on the same side. If PvMP turns into renown/infamy harvesting, then there is little entertainment value left for us. We leave the other side little opportunity to challenge our abilities if steamrolling becomes the norm, and we should all be willing to criticize how classes on our respective sides fit into the constantly changing atmosphere in the 'Moors.

[ThePuzzler]

As a Weaver in the 'Moors, I hate to say it, but the ability to mez us with Riddle does work with the lore. The very fact that Wargs and Spiders can accept and complete quests for their superiors shows that they have the capacity to understand language and can form abstract thought. Further, as previously mentioned in this thread, the more experienced Wargs and Spiders can even speak (and have had their own voice acting added in the game to boot). I wouldn't say that the same is true in PvE, however, as most of the spiders you encounter in Middle-earth are merely single entities functioning in a brood by instinct.

On the gameplay side, however, it is without a doubt a terrible idea to allow burgs to use these abilities in PvP. They will have too much control over the battlefield with little consequence. Let me outline a few instances where this is particularly destructive to Creeps.

1. Impossible fights. A few burgs in a raid could easily hide behind the Creep side of an altercation and pluck off Defilers and Warleaders with riddles while the main Freep group snipes them off or ignores them altogether as the rest of the Creeps go down. For the majority, pots will make no difference in this case, as the burgs have all the time in the world to wait off our immunity with no consequence to themselves for spamming riddles all around (made even worse with the trait that cuts the Riddle CD in half). When there is no applicable response to the enemy's strategy in the game other than running around frantically hoping for a stealth alert to show, you know that gameplay is broken.

2. Fight locations. There is very little chance that Freeps will find any group of Creeps smaller than a raid fighting outside of a fortification. Burgs will turn into the boogeyman as Creeps will be constantly mezzed by them in the open with no possible recourse either than turning tail and running, and that's only applicable if the burg hasn't killed it already or that burg pops out of stealth, which will only be the case when the burg believes that he/she can win the fight. Even if the Creep gets a chance to run from the burg, it has no idea which direction the enemy is coming from and will likely run right into it, making pots much less useful. In a solo, every advantage will be given to the burg to choose its fights and harass its opponent with no commitment to the fight in any way (which is the major difference from the burg as it is now; at least there is a small window of vulnerability when using riddle to incapacitate your gank). Right now, afaik, the only ability that a burg can use on a Creep without breaking stealth is RW, which has no effect on the Creep other than alerting it to a nearby burg. In addition, it allows him that chance to pop a skill or run before the hammer falls. With Riddle in stealth, the burg gets time to get its bearings and the upper hand without being seen or sacrificing his stealth critical for using riddle. Which leads to...

3. No more solo creeps. Burgs will likely form the strategy of using a riddle on a Creep to find out if more numbers are around. If no one comes to assist, the burg will drop stealth and that Creep is good as dead. If they do come, then there's no harm to the burg and it can run without wasting a HIPS as is the case now.

I want to be clear that I harbor no ill will towards burg PVP players- they are only using what Turbine has made available for them, and a burg is my main Freep. The real enemy and the object of hostility (if any) should be the people who made these features available and put their collective boot in the face of people who are just wishing to have some amount of control over their success in the game. I believe that the Riddle change will utterly break the already tenuous balance of PvMP in the Moors, with Creeps being constantly affected with what is equivalent to a smiting from the gods that grants invulnerability to its user.

If anyone has a response to my concerns that can be written positively without accusing me of QQing, I would really appreciate it. In a way, we are all on the same side. If PvMP turns into renown/infamy harvesting, then there is little entertainment value left for us. We leave the other side little opportunity to challenge our abilities if steamrolling becomes the norm, and we should all be willing to criticize how classes on our respective sides fit into the constantly changing atmosphere in the 'Moors.

I'm honestly afraid, lol. This is a good stated, quality post. Now the devs are going to look at this post, go "oh ####, we messed up big time", and nerf the updates completely.

But you have to think, if the devs just sit around afraid to update the burg with anything worthwhile because of the massive creep uproar, than the burg will just slide even further into a role of playing a secondary DPS class.

[addict82]

When we first looked at the Burglar it became apparent that overall the class was in pretty good shape.

When we first looked at the Burglar it became apparent that overall the class was in pretty good shape.

Right, right (must by why they don't need proper functioning armor set bonuses and whatnot)...

...except TG/MM.

That other part too.... ya know, where they don't have a unique/specialized/exclusive role at all.

*CC-wise/stealthriddle; I can already smell the bugs, and hear them crunching under my feet.

Despite Riddle from stealth sounding amazing (yes, sounding amazing... don't play dumb*), I hardly see how a Burglar's CC (or debuffs... or DPS...) would be preferred over an LM's.

Thing is, you didn't just mess up by not making Burgs "the" debuff (as was their obvious intention) or CC class, you messed up by making LMs BOTH "the" debuff and CC class.

"5/6 for X instance have tank/heals (add "need cc", "need debuffs", or just "need utility" if you wish) pst" - Burg vs LM

DPS: LMs red-traited slam a Burg from his/her chance at a DPS slot in pretty much everything, because AOE > ST for most (/all) trash pulls. If its for a DPS slot, the Burg loses. I will be very surprised if this gets a single objection.

CC: On top of their mezzing/stunning (which more or less will post-RoI be an even playing field with Burgs) - LM's can root-kite 5 targets indefinitely (it isn't ever required, but the class has the capability, WHILE KEEPING TWO TARGETS PERMA-MEZZED!). /the Burg loses. /Even DPS traited LMs bring their stun immunity, disease (and/or wound) removal, a heal, power sharing, and *AOE* debuffs to the table, which brings us to...

Debuffs: Burglar debuffs are not as good as LM's for running an instance (as in trash, trash, bossling, trash, trash, bossling, trash, trash, boss). LM debuffs are AOE, effect 3 - yellow trait for 8! - targets, can STACK, and can be kept up on said 3-8 mobs 50% (always 100% for Wind Lore) of the time with blue/red traitlines , and 100% of the time with yellow capstone. One trick per mob, or even two, can never compare... 3-target Dust looks like putrid festering troll carcass next to Fire Lore on 8 targets (plus whatever else the LM decides to stack).

Utility/efficiency/fastest/safest runs: LMs non-red still have AOE capability (> than Burgs at least), their pet's DPS, a potential 5+ target Ancient Craft every/every-other pull, stun immunity, disease and potential wound removal, and the ability to heal and share power during FM-immune-Boss fights. Burgs have poison removal where LMs have wound/disease/stun/silence removal. Burgs have nothing where LMs have a heal and a power share during boss fights.

I know that Burgs and LMs aren't "meant" to be compared in such a way, but that is how I view the subject at hand. These are both "support" classes, but are very similar in their roles (sadly), and are both quite different from Captains.

"A bit more CC" doesn't do squat for the class in the longrun.

Burgs were supposed to be debuffers - THE debuffers, and they aren't.
They aren't THE CCers.
They aren't THE DPS class by any stretch of the imagination.

With FMs "given" to Cappies and Guards (they happen sooooo often) the Burg loses their ONLY unique aspect. Throw into the mix that most bosses are immune to FMs...?

What the hell are Burglars. What is or was the "vision" for this class?

Please stop trying to make them the Jack-of-All-Trades... it is quite clear to everyone that that is the Loremaster, without question.

Why didn't you improve FMs, or add FM options/combos when a Burg is in a fellowship regardless of which party member started the FM? SOMETHING? ANYTHING?

You should have given/need to give Burglars something that would make someone in a group think "this would be a breeze with a decent Burg", or "wow, a Burg would make that fight so much easier".

As is, Burgs are the absolute only class that I have yet to find a place/reason to make such a statement (where an LM/other class couldn't have done the same thing).

I'm still waiting.

(I have grouped with some AMAZING Burgs, and am not trying to belittle what good Burg players are capable of. I only wish that Turbine would give you more to be proud of than filling an offline LM's CC slot or snatching the 6th slot in a group [that you didn't start] and a -75% Addle.)

[slack_n_hash]

... stealth riddle ...

The one minute cooldown on Riddle takes a lot of the sting out of this new ability.

I'm not convinced that burgs will give up the element of surprise, as opposed to using Riddle after the opening attack.


However, packs of burgs (which I dislike in PvP) will probably find a use for it.


I wouldn't mind if Riddle from stealth had a very short range.

[Dyslex]

I have to wonder whether you play your burg much, as it is Mischief stance which reduces the cooldown to 30 seconds. Remember, the stance that cannot be used in stealth, and is hardly ever used in PvP?

Ah sorry about that. Yeah I run Gambler almost exclusively these days when I play my burg so I must have mixed up the trait with the stance. That is a slight relief that I was wrong. But it's still going to scare the #### out of everyone when they get riddled and have no idea where to run/how to respond.

Going to edit that post to avoid other people wasting time pointing out that mistake :P

[IGolbezI]

more crying creeps )

but i am little bit disappointed, that there are no changes for broken gambler line..

i mostly freep. there goes your point.

sorry to break it to you so harshly

edit: i never thought i would see the day where a burglar becomes overpowered in RvR. its actually funny when you think about it.