Female Dwarfs Appreciation Blog

[Shursh]

Good aftrenoon, everyone!
I want to introduce a blog dedicated to female dwarf characters in LOTRO - A Feminine Curve to the Steel

This blog is dedicated to appreciation of stories, roleplay experience and any kind of creative fan-works concerning female dwarfs in the setting of The Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO) and Tolkien’s world in general.

While there is no option in the game of LOTRO to choose a female dwarf character, a number of brave, bold and imaginative players choose to interprete and roleplay their characters as female dwarfs. Unfortunately, such decision and creativity is not always welcomed by other players, so few of female dwarfs are openly known to the gaming community.
This site hopes to bring together the experience of those who play female dwarfs: essays on topics which cause controversy (like dresses , beards , etc.) their background stories, questing stories, cosmetic clothing they choose, etc.

If you have a female dwarf character or know one - I’ll be happy if you contact me and share your experience, story, screencaps, and what not! Both anonymity and linking to your profile or character nickname are done at your request.
You can contact me on the blog - https://curvedsteel.wordpress.com/ , here, or via e-mail schursch(at)gmail(dot)com

[Odinshaw]

well... sometimes I role-play with the quest reward sword called Feminine Curves... I am not sure if that counts.

[-LoNgHiLL-]

Pretty sure Dwarven-women didn't have mustaches, just beards. Actually I think that beard in the picture is actually pretty masculine by Dwarven standards. No clasps in the hair and it is long enough to be tucked into a belt.

[Shursh]

Pretty sure female Dwarves didn't have mustaches, just beards.

That's an interesting idea. Can you elaborate, please?
I plan to make a post with suggestions on how to make a more feminine dwarf with the available features, and your point will be interesting to explore. Thanks in advance!

UPD:

Actually I think that beard in the picture is actually pretty masculine by Dwarven standards. No clasps in the hair and it is long enough to be tucked into a belt.

She was made from the idea that Longbeards will consider longer beards even more beautiful, like long hair, for example. And the character herself was very proud of it and considered it beautiful enough not to add decoration. So it was the perception of the gamer who created her but I'm certainly willing to explore other concepts too.
I wrote a bit about the issue of long beard and its perception here:

So, if a beard for a dwarf is as natural as hair to us (as readers and players), it would be subject to its own conventions of beauty.
A short-bearded dwarf girl could be viewed as less conventionally pretty – for example, as “flat” girls back in our society. It could be extra fun and enjoyable for an RP gamer to play a female character who treats her beard the same way some girls treat their hair – picking good combs for it, hairpins, beauty products…you get the idea=)

And about moustaches - do you think they will not grow or that they would not be 'fashionable'?

[-LoNgHiLL-]

No actually, I can't elaborate very well as not much is documented on this matter. I have seen artistic interpretations of Tolkien's Dwarven-women, having ornamented beards and no mustaches. This is a nice example.

It is described as something to be proud of, having a long beard and tucking it into your belt, for example, though this is by male Dwarves. It is inferred that the males and females of each "race" behave in regards to their gender. When males think something is, "macho," for example, it is not widely agreed on by the females, and then only for the males.

[Shursh]

Thank you very much for shring! That'll be an interesting point to consider for me. And special thanks for linking on the art - I'll see if I can find more to make another post on the 'beard problem' )
Would you mind if I quote you or in any other way refer to your words?

[Macfeast]

No actually, I can't elaborate very well as not much is documented on this matter. I have seen artistic interpretations of Tolkien's Dwarven-women, having ornamented beards and no mustaches. This is a nice example.

Do remember that that is merely the artist's own interpretation, based on very little information on the topic. It cannot be considered as proof that female dwarves in Tolkien's writings are without mustaches, any more than one can use Peter Jackson's movies as proof that elves showed up at Helm's Deep.

[Shursh]

Do remember that that is merely the artist's own interpretation, based on very little information on the topic.

Topic is indeed as well-guarded as Khuzdul itself) Personally I stick to the idea that dwarf women grew out both beards and moustashes, but since the character creation options offer moustache-less faces, I'll try to explore the idea and visual possibilities in this line too. Perhaps it was a seasonal(as in 'fashion') or regional peculiarity at some point or somehow marked the status via the lines of marriage/having children/etc.
Perhaps Dis in this picture is still a maiden and the fashion was to make oneself more kissable?)

[f.i.t.c.]

The idea that Dwarves see beauty and attractiveness in the same way as either those of the Race of Man or Elves is nonsense. It is quite clear that a Race that developed differently, where it is impossible for those of other Races to tell the sexes apart, would not find the notions of what is and what is not attractive in the same way.

So to place a Dwarf of either sex in a dress or for any Dwarf to attempt to make their hair or beard more attractive by placing accessories within it, does not in my opinion make any sense.

What the picture in OP's post shows is a Dwarf attempting for some reason to emulate those of another Race, say a Woman or a Female Elf, rather than dressing as a Female Dwarf.

Please note that I play two Dwarves, both of which are Male, but are played as Dwarves rather than shorter, bearded Men.

[Shursh]

I respect your point, and it is indeed interesting to explore how to play a female dwarf in the game without what feels to some as 'foreignising' her. However, I'm also interested in seeing how certain dwarf girls or women can chose to embrace some elements of outer world culture while travelling a lot (and let's make this assumption that they DO leave mountains to travel for the sake of the game, or all hobbits wouldn't be roaming the Middle-Earth and all that).
As for Nisi (the dwarf girl on the header), her personal story gives explanation for why she chose to use the human/elven convention of clothing occasionally - https://curvedsteel.wordpress.com/20...g-controversy/

As an experienced roleplayer of dwarfs, how would you see the possible representation of females of this race in the game?

[Radhruin_EU]

While there is no option in the game of LOTRO to choose a female dwarf character, a number of brave, bold and imaginative players choose to interprete and roleplay their characters as female dwarfs. Unfortunately, such decision and creativity is not always welcomed by other players, so few of female dwarfs are openly known to the gaming community.

If it's not welcome, it's because most make a pig's ear of it - far from being creative, there's a tendency to downplay what makes these Dwarves different and to fall back on RPing a female Dwarf much as one might in a game where they were obviously female. People are always looking for excuses for how female Dwarves should be somehow evidently feminine to our eyes, or have obvious distinguishing marks, modes of dress etc. that would mark them out somehow despite an emphatic statement by Tolkien that there was no such way to spot them when they were dressed for travel (as they were when away from their halls).

And above all else, female Dwarves did not go to war: that's firmly stated as a defining characteristic. Want to RP a female Dwarf? Wear a comfy robe (no dresses, that's just a poor joke) and hang around Thorin's.

Playing a Dwarf as defiantly 'female' and wearing a dress to force that on everyone is straight out of Terry Pratchett's work. Infamously, his Dwarves couldn't even tell for themselves who was male or female and he did that to poke fun at Tolkien; he has a female Dwarf defiantly wearing makeup, a leather skirt etc. to defy tradition, which is fine there (and funny) but simply dire here. You're importing a parody back into the original.

[-LoNgHiLL-]

Would you mind if I quote you or in any other way refer to your words?

I'm not sure.

Do remember that that is merely the artist's own interpretation, based on very little information on the topic. It cannot be considered as proof that female dwarves in Tolkien's writings are without mustaches, any more than one can use Peter Jackson's movies as proof that elves showed up at Helm's Deep.

That is why I said it was an artistic interpretation, and never said it was proof.

[Radhruin_EU]

That is why I said it was an artistic interpretation

Just not a valid one, as there's supposed to be no such ready way to tell by eye which Dwarves might be female. Not style of facial hair, or wearing particular jewellery, or anything like that which outsiders might pick up on. It was something so subtle that even Elves couldn't spot it and if they couldn't then as far as the game goes, there should be no visible difference at all.

[BIGeyedBUG]

The idea that Dwarves see beauty and attractiveness in the same way as either those of the Race of Man or Elves is nonsense. It is quite clear that a Race that developed differently, where it is impossible for those of other Races to tell the sexes apart, would not find the notions of what is and what is not attractive in the same way.

I really don't disagree. And yet...Gimli has a keen appreciation of the beauty of Galadriel, does he not? Perhaps Dwarves are readier to accept a greater variety of standards of beauty than we are? Or perhaps Gimli is not just an exceptional Dwarf in this regard, but a unique one?

Anyway, in an anthropological mindset, I find it completely plausible that Dwarves in general would have a different standard of beauty than ours. But the fact is, I really don't know what they found attractive. Other than gold, vengeance, vast underground kingdoms, etc. :P

Just musing really. Apologies for the mild speculative swerve from the topic.

[-LoNgHiLL-]

Just not a valid one, as there's supposed to be no such ready way to tell by eye which Dwarves might be female.

Well they never went out, and when they did they dressed as the males, is that not correct? So the idea that there is no way to tell is more like a myth, within Tolkien mythology. It might just be propagated by male dwarves to protect the females that are "disobedient" and choose to run amok. How can we be sure that there is no way to tell, when no one has actually seen one, or doesn't know they have seen one? People assume there is no way for even a trained eye to tell them apart, because that is what they were told.

[Tekkud]

I wholeheartedly approve of this blog.

On the dress vs. non-dress issue, I think it's far too open to interpretation. We simply don't have enough information from Tolkien. I'm one of those people often hated for being so stringent with lore... but if I saw a dwarf in a dress walking around in TH, I would have no objections. If I saw a dwarf in a dress looking for a <instance name here> PUG to run IC, or looking for a quest, I'd be a little less approving.

[Radhruin_EU]

Well they never went out, and when they did they dressed as the males, is that not correct? So the idea that there is no way to tell is more like a myth, within Tolkien mythology. It might just be propagated by male dwarves to protect the females that are "disobedient" and choose to run amok. How can we be sure that there is no way to tell, when no one has actually seen one, or doesn't know they have seen one? People assume there is no way for even a trained eye to tell them apart, because that is what they were told.

Yes, that's right. And dressed that way, there was no way for anyone other than Dwarves to tell who was male and who was female.

Tolkien said that Dwarven women had rights to their person and property (to paraphrase), so it's not like female Dwarves would have been being disobedient by 'running amok'. So, if they didn't get out much it was because they really didn't want to.

If in all those thousands of years, including many when the Dwarves and Elves were friendly with one another, the Elves still hadn't been able to figure out how to tell who was what then I think we can take that as a given. It wasn't the Dwarves saying that, it was other people. The only sure way to tell would be that if you saw a particular Dwarf regularly out and about, and especially if you ever saw that Dwarf go to war, then you could reliably assume that Dwarf was male.

There was a sizeable population of 'surplus' male Dwarves who'd got little or no chance of getting married unless they became really wealthy or did something especially heroic, and so some of them would risk their necks out in the world. Those are your wanderers, traders in distant lands and adventurers and so they're naturally all male.

[Shursh]

If it's not welcome, it's because most make a pig's ear of it - far from being creative, there's a tendency to downplay what makes these Dwarves different and to fall back on RPing a female Dwarf much as one might in a game where they were obviously female. People are always looking for excuses for how female Dwarves should be somehow evidently feminine to our eyes, or have obvious distinguishing marks, modes of dress etc. that would mark them out somehow despite an emphatic statement by Tolkien that there was no such way to spot them when they were dressed for travel (as they were when away from their halls).

And above all else, female Dwarves did not go to war: that's firmly stated as a defining characteristic. Want to RP a female Dwarf? Wear a comfy robe (no dresses, that's just a poor joke) and hang around Thorin's.

Playing a Dwarf as defiantly 'female' and wearing a dress to force that on everyone is straight out of Terry Pratchett's work. Infamously, his Dwarves couldn't even tell for themselves who was male or female and he did that to poke fun at Tolkien; he has a female Dwarf defiantly wearing makeup, a leather skirt etc. to defy tradition, which is fine there (and funny) but simply dire here. You're importing a parody back into the original.

I can see your point, and more so if you are into heavy RP.
But LOTRO is not the original, it's a MMO based on it, a kind of loving parody, I know several fans who refused playing LOTRO exactly because of it.
It goes against the lore in many details: female Elves fighting orcs, Hobbit lasses running around Moria, Hobbit guardians in Mirkwood, etc.
Most gamers accept it for the sake of comfort of the others. Especially if the character's quenta somehow justifies this "strange" behavior.

As far as female dwarfs going to war, it was firmly stated that they do not go unless in times of great need - and as far as the game's inner lore goes, there is a quest in Moria where a battle axe is described as belonging to a female dwarf and other dwarfs who see the character are said to notice the distinction in the weapon - which rather says that there was a culturally recognizable way to do so, and perhaps that the quantity of female dwarf who owned and used there own weapons was significant enough.

As for the clothing, I agree that many female dwarves would stick to the tradition and wear male clothes and robes. Maybe with distinguishably female colors and details, maybe not. Others, however, can try some dresses on - if you checked Nisi's biography, you can see her reasons.
I support all decisions of female-dwarves players, all dwarves are different, including female ones)
I plan an outfits-related post soon, there I will elaborate all my thoughts conserning looks.

Of course, you can deny all of these reasons. But it will be very kind of you to just ignore a distinguishably female dwarf when you meet one, rather than show disrespect and use offensive words and gestures like many, regrettably, do.
We are all gamers who want to enjoy the game, my blog is for those who enjoy it playing a female dwarf) No matter how - masquerading as male most of the time or wearing a dress in front of the whole Bree.

[-LoNgHiLL-]

If in all those thousands of years, including many when the Dwarves and Elves were friendly with one another, the Elves still hadn't been able to figure out how to tell who was what then I think we can take that as a given. It wasn't the Dwarves saying that, it was other people.

I don't know... Elves are pretty selfish and self-centered. I take anything an Elf says with a grain of salt.

[Shursh]

I wholeheartedly approve of this blog.

On the dress vs. non-dress issue, I think it's far too open to interpretation. We simply don't have enough information from Tolkien. I'm one of those people often hated for being so stringent with lore... but if I saw a dwarf in a dress walking around in TH, I would have no objections. If I saw a dwarf in a dress looking for a <instance name here> PUG to run IC, or looking for a quest, I'd be a little less approving.

I totally agree with you on the issue being open due to lack of specifics - and that is why I am so interested in exploring different options - with neutral-'male' clothing, with dresses, with what could pass for in-game version of dwarven female clothing which is not 'human' dress... And dresses can be too valuable to wear in fights

Judging by the ongoing discussion, I'd better collect a lot of materials for the first outfit post)

[Radhruin_EU]

I totally agree with you on the issue being open due to lack of specifics - and that is why I am so interested in exploring different options - with neutral-'male' clothing, with dresses, with what could pass for in-game version of dwarven female clothing which is not 'human' dress... And dresses can be too valuable to wear in fights

Judging by the ongoing discussion, I'd better collect a lot of materials for the first outfit post)

There's one specific that's not open: wearing 'feminine' dress (whatever that might be by Dwarven standards, but probably not dresses!) outside a Dwarf-hall simply isn't on. When they went outside they dressed to blend in, not stand out. And what are you doing? Making a point of standing out.

[Shursh]

There's one specific that's not open: wearing 'feminine' dress (whatever that might be by Dwarven standards, but probably not dresses!) outside a Dwarf-hall simply isn't on. When they went outside they dressed to blend in, not stand out. And what are you doing? Making a point of standing out.

Well, I do not advocate that every female dwarf should 'out' herself outside a Dwarf-populated area or even within it, but I'm interested in exploring how it can be done visually in case they wish to do so.
Also, some of the gamers who play female dwarfs would like to see in-game other female dwarfs, but when there is no visual indication, it is difficult to find out - and some are hesitant about letting others know because they get a lot of verbal or emoting harrassment or their friends have such an experience. This reason is not lore-related, and I understand if it is not valid to you, but it is valid to me and I stand by it.
And while standing out is not the only point I'm interested in - but yes, by all means, this one too. Because traditions, custom, and the sheer presonal security measures of a travelling female are understandably prevailing in a society, including a dwarven one, but there are, also as ever-present, such things as individual taste for the exotic (aka 'foreigners' dresses in this case, perhaps), not fitting in, defying expectations of outsiders or your own kin, and any number of other resons which can be well or poorly substantiated by the characters personal story.

[Radhruin_EU]

Well, I do not advocate that every female dwarf should 'out' herself outside a Dwarf-populated area or even within it, but I'm interested in exploring how it can be done visually in case they wish to do so.
Also, some of the gamers who play female dwarfs would like to see in-game other female dwarfs, but when there is no visual indication, it is difficult to find out - and some are hesitant about letting others know because they get a lot of verbal or emoting harrassment or their friends have such an experience. This reason is not lore-related, and I understand if it is not valid to you, but it is valid to me and I stand by it.

It's wearing dresses that attracts the dislike in the first place, because it looks so utterly ludicrous, so that line of thought of yours is badly messed up. If you want an OOC indication, just adopt a feminine Norse name for the Dwarf (as you should anyway) and there, in letters large above 'her' head, will be all the indication anyone needs that this is a female Dwarf, without having to dress like a freak. Then you might get a bit less grief.

And while standing out is not the only point I'm interested in - but yes, by all means, this one too. Because traditions, custom, and the sheer presonal security measures of a travelling female are understandably prevailing in a society, including a dwarven one, but there are, also as ever-present, such things as individual taste for the exotic (aka 'foreigners' dresses in this case, perhaps), not fitting in, defying expectations of outsiders or your own kin, and any number of other resons which can be well or poorly substantiated by the characters personal story.

Making excuses for standing out (and being out of character), again. And then complaining about catching flak for it

[Shursh]

.. having to dress like a freak. Then you might get a bit less grief.

Making excuses for standing out (and being out of character), again. And then complaining about catching flak for it

Well, I don't know about your real-life experience, but in mine treating people badly because 'they dress like a freak" (in your opinion) is not an indication of good character, even though loads of people just love to do it to those who stand out in any way. Also, 'out of character' statement is pretty bold without knowing the specific character's story, but since you view the idea as completely contradictory to the lore and not just as consistent or not consistent with a specific female dwarf character's story, personality and surroundings, I do not think we'll come anywhere near agreement on this one.
Thanks for the advice on names, though, might come in handy for future characters. Also, a bit of advice in return: if your character is so freaked out by a sight of dwarf in dress or any other clothing which stands out to him or her IC, a good option, apart from the obvious one of ignoring, might be to contact the player and ask if they'd like to roleplay an in-game freaking-out scene and reaction, instead.

[Radhruin_EU]

Well, I don't know about your real-life experience, but in mine treating people badly because 'they dress like a freak" (in your opinion) is not an indication of good character, even though loads of people just love to do it to those who stand out in any way. Also, 'out of character' statement is pretty bold without knowing the specific character's story

Some really short bloke with a huge beard and a gruff voice (that being what female Dwarves looked and sounded like), who goes around wearing a dress? Imagine how people would react to that spectacle in real life. It's off-putting to players in-game, too, which is why you catch flak for it and deservedly so. Personally, I imagine female Dwarves would dress in a way that would not make them look like freaks. If their ideas of femininity were different, then so too would be styles of clothing among their women. (Personally, I imagine then wearing beautifully embroidered robes when at home).

You can't argue away being out of character for the setting by writing some contrived tale about how a Dwarf just loves to wear dresses. This is Middle-earth, after all, not the Discworld.