How is finesse diffrent from Radiance?

[Wanderv]

A gating mechanic is healthy no matter how hard or soft. It separates those who dont care about their gear from those that do. I like fast and smooth runs and fineese lets me tell the difference between a hardcore elitist from a casual noob when choosing my group members. Thank you Turbine.

Finesse isn't gating. It is just another dps-stat to counter raised b\p\e. Finesse just raise dps as do offence or critical ratings. So if you call it gating then you'd call offence and critical as gatings too. Actually finesse have even less impact on dps than offence or criticals as you can counter blocks and parries attacking from behind.

[JRonnie]

......plus the store-bought finesse scroll at the level cap.

I know what the difference is between finesse and radiance.....

Finesse is on sale in the store.

/facepalm.

[Zweiblumen]

I know what the difference is between finesse and radiance.....

Finesse is on sale in the store.

/facepalm.

Told you so.

I said when finesse was first announced that they would be selling it on the store, and that they removed radiance and replaced it with another gate purely to sell the new one on the store. After all, they promised to never sell radiance - we would have gone absolutely mental if they'd tried selling it, yet they readily admitted at the time of its removal that they considered doing it. This was the most obvious way for them to feed raiding into the store.

It wouldn't surprise me if the finesse items turn out to be consumables that grant you a short-term buff rather than permanent stat increases, too, so you keep buying them over and over.

Turbine are an absolute disgrace.

[Barrynor]

Vote with your wallet, don't buy anything in the store. I'm not.


I must say though that it disappoints me somewhat. Ah well... 27th of september we get a load of new quests, and 11.11.11 I get more quests ^_^.

[MajUntagent]

It wouldn't surprise me if the finesse items turn out to be consumables that grant you a short-term buff rather than permanent stat increases, too, so you keep buying them over and over.

Turbine are an absolute disgrace.

they are a short term buff- but if people are stupid enough to buy the scrolls after they've already got a heap of finesse from gear then they deserve to be ripped off. just because something is available on the store doesn't mean you need to (or should) buy it.

[Kiratom]

What the devil.... Turbine how DARE you? Quit abusing the Lord of the Rings license to rip off people.

Radiance, never in the store, your words. Remove radiance, add finesse, sell finesse. How stupid do you think people are?

Yes, I mad.

[KingCogidubnus]

Well done Turbine....

After 4 years paying and playing this game I think its time to dust off my lightsaber

[Zweiblumen]

they are a short term buff- but if people are stupid enough to buy the scrolls after they've already got a heap of finesse from gear then they deserve to be ripped off.

..and conversely, just because they CAN be put on the store, doesn't mean that Turbine SHOULD.

They should have the common sense to know that there are some items they just shouldn't offer.

What the devil.... Turbine how DARE you? Quit abusing the Lord of the Rings license to rip off people.

Radiance, never in the store, your words. Remove radiance, add finesse, sell finesse. How stupid do you think people are?

Yes, I mad.

I think at this point it's clear that anyone at Turbine who cares about customers satisfaction is no longer involved in the decision making process.

[Brya]

What the devil.... Turbine how DARE you? Quit abusing the Lord of the Rings license to rip off people.

Radiance, never in the store, your words. Remove radiance, add finesse, sell finesse. How stupid do you think people are?

Yes, I mad.

How many times do we have to tell people like you it's not radiance?

Those of us lucky enough to be in beta have tested it first hand. It isn't at all necessary, but is "nice to have". It is *NOT* radiance.

[Barrynor]

Hence no reason to buy it from the store ;-)

[Cadd_EU]

Just like other temporary buffs in the store like Morale, Power, Armour, Reduced Item Wear etc.

[MoonwalkIntoMordor]

Unbelievable. I'm simply baffled. Not at Turbine, but the group of people who are blindly anti-finesse. We have offence, defence, morale and hope buffs in the store. How you think that store availability of temporary finesse buffs is some sort of support to your case is just a mystery.

But yeah, keep rocking on with the demagogy. Fear and prejudice is all you have when reality isn't backing your argument up.

[Raon]

But yeah, keep rocking on with the demagogy. Fear and prejudice is all you have when reality isn't backing your argument up.

Sure you are absolutly right, because the shop isn't selling character progression because you could cap the main stats in game as you allways said, or is selling finee... err randiance as gate mechanic, or the pots are not even remotely usefull in the last instances, or the tomes could be get in game.... upps, sorry for the last one.

[GregJL]

Unbelievable. I'm simply baffled. Not at Turbine, but the group of people who are blindly anti-finesse. We have offence, defence, morale and hope buffs in the store. How you think that store availability of temporary finesse buffs is some sort of support to your case is just a mystery.

But yeah, keep rocking on with the demagogy. Fear and prejudice is all you have when reality isn't backing your argument up.

But...but...they're gonna make it so we NEED to buy the scrolls from the store. After all, that's what they did with all the OTHER buffs in the store, right?

Oh wait...

[MoonwalkIntoMordor]

Sure you are absolutly right, because the shop isn't selling character progression because you could cap the main stats in game as you allways said, or is selling finee... err randiance as gate mechanic, or the pots are not even remotely usefull in the last instances, or the tomes could be get in game.... upps, sorry for the last one.

I see no proper arguments here. Store bought potions and stat tomes are not even relevant to the topic. You fear that finesse will be a hard gate like radiance was and you expect others to share your irrational fear. Do you really expect to be taken seriously?

[Kerin_Eldar]

A gating mechanic is healthy no matter how hard or soft. It separates those who dont care about their gear from those that do. I like fast and smooth runs and fineese lets me tell the difference between a hardcore elitist from a casual noob when choosing my group members. Thank you Turbine.

Well, if it's as ubiquitous as those playing beta claim it is I'm afraid your cosy little elitist-filter isn't going to be worth much, is it?

It's also laughable that you think gear is any indication whatsoever of skill in this game. Beyond one or two specific pieces, gear obtained is largely a function of instances run, zero indication of skill is involved.

[Barrynor]

Well, if it's as ubiquitous as those playing beta claim it is I'm afraid your cosy little elitist-filter isn't going to be worth much, is it?

It's also laughable that you think gear is any indication whatsoever of skill in this game, beyond one or two specific pieces gear obtained is largely a function of instances run, zero indication of skill is involved.

*collapses with laughter* I like that ... I like that very much. And it seems to be the case, as there was loads of finesse on crafted stuff screenshots. Hence, its easy to aquire.

[JRonnie]

Unbelievable. I'm simply baffled. Not at Turbine, but the group of people who are blindly anti-finesse. We have offence, defence, morale and hope buffs in the store. How you think that store availability of temporary finesse buffs is some sort of support to your case is just a mystery.

But yeah, keep rocking on with the demagogy. Fear and prejudice is all you have when reality isn't backing your argument up.

I'm not anti-finesse. In fact I've staunchly defended it in the past. However the buffs you list are not only in the store, but they're also available as a destiny point perk. As far as I've been able to determine, finesse is 'not' available as a destiny point perk. It's a store exclusive. As far as I'm concerned, that's not acceptable to me. I'm happy to be told differently if someone in beta can check to see if it is available as a DP buff.

[Raptor38]

Given the amount of Finesse you can acquire with gear anybody that gets it in the store is silly. When I stacked just for finesses I was able to reach 5000+ finesse. If you buy it in the store you're just wasting your money. If you need it you can get all the finesse you need without trying or sacrificing anything else.

[JasonEvan]

Unbelievable. I'm simply baffled. Not at Turbine, but the group of people who are blindly anti-finesse. We have offence, defence, morale and hope buffs in the store. How you think that store availability of temporary finesse buffs is some sort of support to your case is just a mystery.

But yeah, keep rocking on with the demagogy. Fear and prejudice is all you have when reality isn't backing your argument up.

I am miffed about the possibility of this becoming a player installed gate on some servers. I could see teams deciding that people need a certain amount of Finesse. The devs flat out apologized for Radiance. I am sure you read the apology. They don't intend for Finesse to be a gate. I get that. What I think they are underestimating is the player base installing a gate of their own. That will make pugging a lot slower to find teams if I get on one and have a person running the team that insists on finesse gating the run. Let's also not pretend like the system they have installed for B/P/E, Stats, Crits, Devastates, etc. isn't convoluted because it is. Mitigations run different ratios than other stats for percentage conversions and Finesse is just going to add another system to that mix. There is plenty to be concerned about with this. People tend to become less rational when money can be involved as well.

[cossieuk]

Any group leader that requires a set level of finesse would not get me in there group regardless of how much I had and as long as other people are will to do the same it wont become an issue.

You currently see people looking for groups and stating only experienced people wanted. I wont group wit people like that either

[Cadd_EU]

I really don't think people will require a set amount of Finesse for grouping. Still leveling I don't know too well how PUGing usually handles things, but I'm guessing no one asks a specific minimum amount of Crit Defence from tanks? Sure if it's abysmally low you ask why, but there's no player-created lower limit, right?

[JasonEvan]

Any group leader that requires a set level of finesse would not get me in there group regardless of how much I had and as long as other people are will to do the same it wont become an issue.

You currently see people looking for groups and stating only experienced people wanted. I wont group wit people like that either

I usually just group with Kinnies, but sometimes I can't. I also play on a highly populated server in LOTRO terms, but that doesn't mean that there are always groups for content. I guess we don't really have to worry about it too much until the new dungeon content is out before the end of the year, but yeah I could see some player-based Finesse gating going on for the 24 man instance in RoI.

Finesse wouldn't be such a bad idea if the player base didn't have such a bad taste in its mouth left over from the Radiance debacle. Turbine wrote us an apology letter for Radiance and then they make another stat that arguably doesn't need to be in the game? I can see where people are leery of that. When your track record isn't exactly spotless, people call you out. I think they should have worked on the getting the 3/6/12 man instances in RoI as opposed to installing a new stat to an already convoluted stat system.

[MurkyMajare]

Of course LFFs will start demanding a certain level of Finesse.

They started demanding that "experienced players only" for the newest instances / raid... on the *same* day was those instances went live!

I read that a few compare the Finesse requirement to say Agility requirement, but I disagree with that somewhat.

Of course a low any thing matters compared to a higher value of that skill / trait etc.

But as it is now, each point in Finesse matters more than each point in say Might.

Which makes it a more important "stat" than the others, and thus more "required" than others.

Finesse is also a dynamic which we have done without before, and could very well have lived without, so why add it?

Spreading our "points-from-gear" over one more stat, especially one with greater importance than the others, means that each stat on average gets less points. Basically, if you want a high Finesse, your other stats will not be as high.

[Berecron]

Spreading our "points-from-gear" over one more stat, especially one with greater importance than the others, means that each stat on average gets less points. Basically, if you want a high Finesse, your other stats will not be as high.

That's exactly what it's needed. Otherwise you end up stacking only the most important stats, to the near exclusion of all else, and gearing up becomes a matter of "these pieces have the most of what I want, I need to get these and only these."

I had to mix and match, and sometimes reforge, pieces (and occasionally use elixirs/food buffs) in WoW to try and stay somewhat near the spell hit cap. It became less and less of a worry as I geared up and I had more freedom to switch out gear that improved my other stats. Without that type of restriction, which has a natural progression toward freedom, I would have just stacked certain pieces and raised certain stats with no thought involved. That's boring to be honest. Would you rather go "this has the most might and vitality /roll" or "well this adds a lot of might and some vitality, but it has no Finesse and my current piece does...will it drop me too far, will I be ok with it just the cap, or can I switch out some jewelry or a relic on my legendary (assuming it's an option there) to get back what I'd lose?"

All finesse is doing is taking the place of the stats that are currently capped, with the difference being that until that particular cap each point has more weight than others...though once it hits that cap any additional points have no use at all. You then have the freedom to focus solely on other stats, with fuzzy boundaries created by Finesse to keep other stats sorta under control. By removing caps on stats like Might, Agi, Vit, etc. a stat like Finesse is actually needed, from a balancing standpoint.