Rune-keeper Q&A with your host, Zombie Columbus

[Neen_Eldar]

Which brings me to my next point. I'm mainly a healing RK, and when I DPS, I'm a lit RK. Having the Cooldown of FR reduced by 3 when I'm heal traited is completely worthless. We are a dual-purpose class, so the befits we get should suit both our uses, like the two variants of the OD set did. Instead, we get -15% WOH power cost as a healer and thats it. That's nice, but the lack of any useable 5-set bonus is a disappointment.

There should be a variant on the armour set bonus so it changes, 5 deep on a traitline gives a healing or DPS bonus, this also depends which traits you use, fire/light/heals ofc, and a standard bonus if you're using a mixture of traits (perhaps just stats)

[KunkLord]

It's the unevolved form of this:

Yay, you knew! lol My avatar is actually from Super Metroid. (one of the greatest games ever made) I have yet to come across a Metroid game I haven't loved and I have played them all. Like some of you have expressed the primes were great games but nothing beats Super Metroid for me. Call me old school. (yeah I know Other M wasn't as good as the others but it was still good)

Your avatar is awesome.

Thanks.


Anyway, back to one of the other greatest games ever made - LOTRO.

ZC – I appreciate your response about my avatar but what about my actual questions.
1. Why no offensive utility group buffs or mob debuffs for the RK? (especially while healing)
2. Why no offensive rune as an alternative to Rune of Restoration?

[Forgotten_Legend]

ZC. Simple healing/combat mechanics question here:

1) It appears that both the mini and RK are getting healing nerfs of some kind, and you've indicated that the healing output of mini's and RK are intended to be on par (which is good to hear). What's changing in the RoI combat system that is driving this universal adjustment to healing? (damage curve changes? Finesse?)

Thanks,

for minstrels, they get healing buffs from keeping up ballads...
for RKs, we now get a 4 traitline healing bonus per healing trait slotted.

also, for both, the removal of stat caps... and the new formula for calculating offence and outgoing healing. the percentages are higher now per rating point, by about 20% i think.

so, basicly, even with the healing "nerfs," all the buffs not only make up for them, but actually buff further, for an overall net buff

[Bradegor]

for minstrels, they get healing buffs from keeping up ballads...
for RKs, we now get a 4 traitline healing bonus per healing trait slotted.

also, for both, the removal of stat caps... and the new formula for calculating offence and outgoing healing. the percentages are higher now per rating point, by about 20% i think.

so, basicly, even with the healing "nerfs," all the buffs not only make up for them, but actually buff further, for an overall net buff

I don´t doubt that there will be such "net buff". As there will be a net buff on DPSing, or tanking. Mind you, we´re getting 10 lvls. On every expansion of almost every MMO, characters improve; on many games, alot. Last wow expansion moved characters from 40k health to 100k.

The aspect of this argument is if a healing RK will be as good in a healing spot on a raid than a minstrel. It looks like he won´t. Probably healing capabilities are matched (from the scratch, looks like minstrels have the upper hand though: much better group healing, much better point healing, many kinds of heals - fast heals, hots, medium induction high HPS heals, etc ... compared with our only way of healing) but the extras a character brings to the table have no mismatch. A minstrel can buff WAY better, from passives to actives (codas, ballads, etc...), they can wipe dread, they have a true in-combat rez spell, etc etc ... Healing RKs bring very few to the mix, some protections, which has been nerfed btw, and few more. Plus, a RK has less health and less armour, so less defences... we´re more squishier than minstrels.

Right now, the RK class is a ranged DPS class with good defensive utilities (we can bring some protection, some in-combat rez buff), that can fight toe to toe with hunters for a spot in a raid despite being so clumsy that most raidleaders will prefer that (let´s not talk about so many fights needing a hunter tank, a role that we probably wouldn´t do well), and a healing class that will be just a replacement for if not enough minstrels are needed, or just as a 3rd healer if the fight needs 3.

I just see the class as an optional one; our strenght points aren´t so strong, and honestly if i was raidleader i´d bring a minstrel over a healer RK 9 of 10 times.

And that´s why i feel the devs have failed on designing this expansion RK abilities (yeah Mr. Columbus, this goes for you).

[Zombie_Columbus]

ZC – I appreciate your response about my avatar but what about my actual questions.
1. Why no offensive utility group buffs or mob debuffs for the RK? (especially while healing)
2. Why no offensive rune as an alternative to Rune of Restoration?[/b]

Oh fine, but only because you're so adorable.

[Runesi_EU]

Oh fine, but only because you're so adorable.

Whilst I may not be as adorable perhaps you could tell us if there is any chance of a dread removal skill? It could even be an RK only consumable (like the LM pipeweed for resurecting)

[Bradegor]

1- The short answer is, because not every class needs everything. Way back before initial release, the RK had a lot more debuffs/buffs. It was felt that a class that can be a primary DPS and a primary Healer should not have quite so much utility, so we toned them down a bit. While they are not as potent as some of our classes who are primarily support, the RK still has a decent number of support skills. A concern that I hear loud and clear, and one that I have discussed with other devs since before the RK launched, is the difference between the RK and the Minstrels capabilities as healers. The question is the amount of utility that they can provide while healing. Some amount of the equation must be that the RK can more meaningfully switch to a dps role, but it cannot be the whole of what they bring. I guess the long answer is less of an answer, and more a big "Yeah, we know, and we think he's in a good place relative to the other classes for now." The extensive Minstrel revamp may change this, or it may not. If raid leaders routinely turn RK's down, do tell. Raid leaders, if you think RK's are not worth bringing as a main dps or healer, do tell.

Hey ZC, RK´s are not worth bringing as a main healer if i can get a minstrel. They put same healing output than a RK, then can main heal a tank as good as a RK, heal fellows much better, and have better point healing ... but when comes to utility, they´re better hands down: they have a reliable in-combat rez, they can wipe dread, they buff DPS and stats in a very handy way. They´re not "just" healers: they add utility to raids. RK´s, on the other side, just bring healing and protection to Fire attacks like in DB, and a shield that helps on -incoming healing debuff bosses.

If there are still RK healers on raids, it´s mostly due there is always lack of healers and the magnitude of the ranged DPS players (aka hunters) in every server, meaning DPS RKs aren´t really needed.

On the other hand, RK are perfectly fit as ranged DPS even if they can´t really do well as DPS tanks as hunters can do.

-- THIS IS HAPPENING BEFORE ROI --. It happens in every raid. RKs just are needed in specific fights, as DB.

After RoI changes, healing RKs will have a worse position: first, looks like DNFTF will be nerfed so less utility. Second, minstrels will have an easier time for putting their buffs on -once they relearn the class, that is. Third, morale bubbles now will not work as incoming healing debuff savers as they did. Minstrels stat buffs now, with stats caps out, will always be useful.

On the other side, RK DPS looks nice for raiding, Fire seems to be at one point of what can compete with hunter DPS. So ...

... thanks for giving us at least one spot on a raid where we can be as good as any other class.

But really, recheck the RK healer class as it is. With new changes, a healing RK will DPS much worse than before RoI the same way a DPS RK will heal much worse than before RoI. It will be VERY hard really to switch to DPS. And, honestly, i don´t know any fight where a healing RK must switch to DPS, usually it´s the opposite way: in an emergency, a DPS RK should switch to heal when a healer dies and there are not enough in-combat rezzes.

Probably, you won´t read this, but i have some suggestions for giving utility to healers while not doing OP the DPS RK:

- Make the in-combat rez buff can be activated if the RK is on 6 healing attunement.

- Give EftA a 2.3 secs induction and 2 minutes CD.

- Give us a dread removal skill.

- Make Writ of Cold be casted at any attunement. If casted in heal attunement, it does zero damage but its cost stays the same and lowers target tactical/melee/ranged defence for 20 seconds.

[interactii]

ZC, this is me letting you know that mistrials are preferred over RKs for raid content. The 60 will fate buff alone is enough for most, plus the fact that we have no dread removal skill.

HPS output RKs can do fine, except for big spikes, which is something that has now been somewhat addressed in ROI.

To all you screaming "nerf nerf" on healing, you are wrong. I've run the numbers, there's no nerf. On level healing output when fully healing traited is higher. At 75, with equipment in the game, you can reach the healing cap, at which time you could do rather insane heals, far more than you need for any content currently in the game. How it compares to the new ministril, I have no idea.

I know you are "gone" but the lack of response on dread removal disappoints me.

[Lestache]

1. Why no offensive utility group buffs or mob debuffs for the RK? (especially while healing)

- Make Writ of Cold be casted at any attunement. If casted in heal attunement, it does zero damage but its cost stays the same and lowers target tactical/melee/ranged defence for 20 seconds.

Am I the only one who uses the Master of Writs toggle while healing? Writ of Cold is useable now while healing.

But hey, if Master of Writs is going away and I missed it, let me know (seriously).

[DelgonTheWise]

Am I the only one who uses the Master of Writs toggle while healing? Writ of Cold is useable now while healing.

But hey, if Master of Writs is going away and I missed it, let me know (seriously).

I use it somewhat, though even with riffler of writs it is pretty power hungry to dump WoC and WoF out when healing attuned.

Not sure what deal is in RoI...

[ShammWoww]

Am I the only one who uses the Master of Writs toggle while healing? Writ of Cold is useable now while healing.

But hey, if Master of Writs is going away and I missed it, let me know (seriously).

Yes, The MoW toggle is moving to a riffler or chisel in the update and is being removed from our 4 set bonus.

Some ideas:
Make a "fire-healer" or "cold-healer" combo possible through traiting.
Say I trait 5 deep heals, 2 deep fire, one of which is a writ of fire or a modified-in-the-future additional fire trait
which changes writ of fire utility to put a tiered fire/tactical damage debuff on the mob.
This would provide a trade off of traiting 7 deep in heals (reducing our max healing potential) for some group utility.

the cold healer would be something similar, 5 deep heals, 2 deep cold traits (perhaps some traits would need to change), which would
change the utility of writ of cold to either increase max targets (heck, I'll be brave and say up to 10)
or add an additional slow effect to the target.
The theory here is that damage prevented is damage that does not need to be healed.

In DPS mode, these skills would function as they do now, but their utility changes when we are heals traited in a certain way.
thoughts?


edit: these traits would also greatly reduce, or completely get rid of the damage they do, they would turn basically into debuffing skills

[KunkLord]

Thanks for the response ZC. We have already established that raid leaders would prefer Mini's because of their utilities. Like another poster said, Rk's are not invited because of their ability to dps and heal but because they can dps OR heal. You don;t do both at the same time, so being able to switch does not really help an rk in this regard. Also, as already stated, dread removal would be great for an rk no matter how it was implemented.

[zlatang]

So ZC, thanks for your time.

It's enough said for EFTA, so I won't waste any time on it. I don't use it, spam MV + bubble in dire situations is better option. I also got feeling that we're being nerfd, but will check it when ROI comes out. I hope you'll be available to discuss again

Got only one proposition:

1) When traited, Rune of Endurance restore small amount of power

That's all. Thx

[Lowj]

You don;t do both at the same time, so being able to switch does not really help an rk in this regard.

Actually... as raid leader I love having 'DPS RKs' exactly for that reason: the ability to switch to healing during a particularly nasty/long (boss) fight. Even though not being healing traited will mean that the heals aren't optimal, it can be a very useful asset and it can make the difference between wiping and succeeding. Just saying.

Is it obvious that I wish I never parked my RK at lvl 41?

[Bradegor]

Actually... as raid leader I love having 'DPS RKs' exactly for that reason: the ability to switch to healing during a particularly nasty/long (boss) fight. Even though not being healing traited will mean that the heals aren't optimal, it can be a very useful asset and it can make the difference between wiping and succeeding. Just saying.

Is it obvious that I wish I never parked my RK at lvl 41?

Exactly, as i stated before, the chance to switch that ZC talked is always an utility FOR THE DPS RK, not for the healing one. There is an emergency, a healer dies/logs outs/gets DC ... you switch and save the day. But you will never hear that a healer becomes DPS by raidleader´s command. Plus, the new trait lines makes even more important the traiting, so now healing RKs DPS worse, and DPS RKs heal worse.

We need more utility on HEALERs, not on DPS. As i see it, RK DPSers are fine (again, hunters get some advantages as ranged tanking and better range but we have others like buffs, debuffs, ability to emergency healing etc ...); it´s just healing which needs some tweaking.

[Forgotten_Legend]

I don´t doubt that there will be such "net buff". As there will be a net buff on DPSing, or tanking. Mind you, we´re getting 10 lvls. On every expansion of almost every MMO, characters improve; on many games, alot. Last wow expansion moved characters from 40k health to 100k.

the net buff i was referring to, is comparing level 65 pre RoI, to the same exact level 65 the moment RoI goes live, before levelling at all...

[Bradegor]

the net buff i was referring to, is comparing level 65 pre RoI, to the same exact level 65 the moment RoI goes live, before levelling at all...

Well, considering that there is a stats cap removed and several stats cap increased, there will be a net buff. Currently i sit over 13k tact offence and 11.4k outgoing healing, plus probably something more than 650 in Fate... ust only with the removal of current caps, my character would improve and get a "net buff". I guess this will happen on every class.

[Fasin]

Well, considering that there is a stats cap removed and several stats cap increased, there will be a net buff. Currently i sit over 13k tact offence and 11.4k outgoing healing, plus probably something more than 650 in Fate... ust only with the removal of current caps, my character would improve and get a "net buff". I guess this will happen on every class.

Only the people fighting at 99% or 97% capacity instead of 100% will get a buff. People using a build that does not overcap by more then a few points will get no buff. If you handicap yourself by overcapping, that does not make stat cap removal a buff (not right at 65 anyway, which is what we're talking about) when Isengard comes out. It just removes the handicap you placed there.

[Forgotten_Legend]

Only the people fighting at 99% or 97% capacity instead of 100% will get a buff. People using a build that does not overcap by more then a few points will get no buff. If you handicap yourself by overcapping, that does not make stat cap removal a buff (not right at 65 anyway, which is what we're talking about) when Isengard comes out. It just removes the handicap you placed there.

you misunderstand... they redid the equations... if your rating is at "cap" you get more %. the old "cap" was 30%... the new "cap" for healing is 50%. with the exact same rating you get an additional +20%. that's a net buff. for everyone.

offense ratings are the same, if you were at +30% offense, you're now at +50% offense. the difference, is that you can continue to add to offense because the percentage isn't capped.

edit: everything on BR is subject to change of course... and my numbers are off based on change... healing rating appears to give the same percentages on live, but offense ratings definitely give more percentage across the board to everyone. also, offense rating is not capped at 50% anymore, and devs confirmed this when beta was launched.

so now, for healing rating, it removes the handicap if you're overcapped, but for offense, you remove handicap PLUS you get more percentage damage bonus.

[Alad.]

you misunderstand... they redid the equations... if your rating is at "cap" you get more %. the old "cap" was 30%... the new "cap" for healing is 50%. with the exact same rating you get an additional +20%. that's a net buff. for everyone.

I wish that were true. I think you misunderstood. It would be a dream come true, but I don't think that "with the exact same rating you get an additional +20%".

offense ratings are the same, if you were at +30% offense, you're now at +50% offense. the difference, is that you can continue to add to offense because the percentage isn't capped.

Same misunderstanding here, I think. And the offence percentage is very capped, to +50%, according to the dev diary, which I reproduced here: (unless it is different in beta than what is described here, in which case it could be just a bug in beta)

The caps on Primary characteristics, Might, Agility, Vitality, Will and Fate are completely removed. The caps on Block, Parry, Evade, Incoming Healing and Critical Hit ratings have been increased to 25%. The caps on Offences, Outgoing Healing and Resistance ratings have been increased to 50%. The relaxation of the ratings based caps starts at level 50.

Stat                          Percentage     Previously
Block                             25%           15%
Parry                             25%           15%
Evade                             25%           15%
Incoming Healing                  25%           15%
Melee,Ranged,Tactical Offence     50%           30%
Resistance                        50%           30%
Outgoing Healing                  50%           30%

One thing to be aware of though, is that the diminishing returns built into the formula the converts ratings to percentage will start to be much more noticeable as the ratings increase. While it takes 4550 ratings to reach +15% at level 65 it will take 8850 to reach 25%.

[AntiClimax]

@ Zombie_Columbus

Not sure if this has been answered or asked yet.

Is Martial Training getting changed in RoI? +300 health at lvl 75 seems like a waste, The 10% power is nice, So if you would can you change it back to how it used to be and give us the +10% morale or add more morale to it.

And You shall Fall to Our Wrath In my honest opinion is a joke of a Legendary Trait/Skill, I would love to see you change this to something that's better. I've been playing the Rune-Keeper for a while now and I've only trait-ed You shall fall to our wrath one time just to see how it was... And It was not good. So I'd Appreciate if you would take a look at it and try to think of some better idea for a Legendary Trait/Skill.

Anticlimax Rank 12 Rune-Keeper Silverlode

[Bradegor]

Only the people fighting at 99% or 97% capacity instead of 100% will get a buff. People using a build that does not overcap by more then a few points will get no buff. If you handicap yourself by overcapping, that does not make stat cap removal a buff (not right at 65 anyway, which is what we're talking about) when Isengard comes out. It just removes the handicap you placed there.

I´m sorry but i don´t get it. I didn´t search the overcap. It simply happened by having the best overall relics and gear. I didn´t choose such gear instead of other one. I´d play with that gear no matter the caps, because it´s simply the best one. So, there will be a buff for me and for many as me who were geared similar to me. In some situations, it´s almost impossible not to overcap. I´m trying hardly not to get Fate to 650 but i can´t. Same with tact offence (which wasn´t bad btw, with old system of tactical defence).

My fact stays true.

[Forgotten_Legend]

I wish that were true. I think you misunderstood. It would be a dream come true, but I don't think that "with the exact same rating you get an additional +20%".

Same misunderstanding here, I think. And the offence percentage is very capped, to +50%, according to the dev diary, which I reproduced here: (unless it is different in beta than what is described here, in which case it could be just a bug in beta)

i'm editting my post you quoted to include the following, after logging into BR on my copied RK to make sure of the numbers. with the NDA lifted, i'm not allowed to quote exact numbers, mind you, but i'm allowed to relay my experiences,

edit: everything on BR is subject to change of course... and my numbers are off based on change... healing rating appears to give the same percentages on live, but offense ratings definitely give more percentage across the board to everyone. also, offense rating is not capped at 50% anymore, and devs confirmed this when beta was launched.

so now, for healing rating, it removes the handicap if you're overcapped. and with the new set bonuses for healing, the net healing is still higher... but for offense, you remove handicap PLUS you get more percentage damage bonus. so instead of +30% damage from teh amount of rating, you get , say, +45% damage.

[Mao_Mao]

I dont know what to get from this offence discussion..

Two possibilities:
1.Dev diary is correct so at lvl 65 with 8900 offence you are at 25% (same as it is now) and the cap goes to 50% but you are still at 25%.Maybe you got passives or traits or buffs etc that increase your to 45% but your offence gained % is still the same.. .
2.They rebalanced the ratings on the lvl 75 so a 8900 offence is 25% which means that on lower lvls it equals to more % as Forgotten _Legend says..This is the only explanation i find in having the same offence but higher %

[Lestache]

I dont know what to get from this offence discussion..

Two possibilities:
1.Dev diary is correct so at lvl 65 with 8900 offence you are at 25% (same as it is now) and the cap goes to 50% but you are still at 25%.Maybe you got passives or traits or buffs etc that increase your to 45% but your offence gained % is still the same.. .
2.They rebalanced the ratings on the lvl 75 so a 8900 offence is 25% which means that on lower lvls it equals to more % as Forgotten _Legend says..This is the only explanation i find in having the same offence but higher %

They severely reduced the diminishing returns on offense rating. My RK on Live has +30% tactical offense damage. On BR, with a slightly lower offense rating thanks to a bugged/changed chisel, I was at 51% or so tactical offense. (And no, I didn't have any buffs on me, self- or otherwise.)