Hunter Q&A with your host, Zombie Columbus

[Tigersclaws]

imo hunters should have a *help i am gonna get ganked again by the wargs i tracked* even if it is just a minor evade skill (less epic than the ba) that or they need a moving stealth skill which could be used in combat to combo with a skill how ever use it to get away? (short intro that can be interrupted or will be overpowered)

[ppspankalot]

I had high hopes for this Q&A. Logged in and out of this thread since it began and saw lots of legit questions and just a politician's speech for answers out of ZC.

[SungXe]

I could see doing a pass on the Chants some time. Maybe reducing their potency a bit and putting that potency into traitlines or legacies as you pointed out. Such a pass could include adding a number of new chant types with different focuses, kind of like the chisels you mentioned or the instrument changes for Minstrels.

Someone had to mention breach-finders.
Good grief.

Nice one anyway. I was ironic btw, and to my suprise ZC was actually reasonable with the possibility converting the damage from chant to traits, so we could get a choice for chants.

Unless some DPS get lost during the conversion


But i just got this song stuck into my head now, Danger Dan...dun dun dun Danger, Danger Danger Dan...dun dun dun.

[drexele]

i think fidn the path should give like +in combat run speed also just for a lil boost and i think we shoulb able to track stealths as a passsive skill at some point instead of legandary in tof line

[Tinluen]

Questions left unanswered:

1. Heightened Senses:

Why attach an in combat power return that we need to a skill that has only once (one section of BG) been useful in PVE? It doesn't help in PVP because the hunter is usually dead before power becomes a problem when tracking wargs. (GET RID OF THE LONG ANIMATION FOR TRACK! It gives any experienced warg a heads up that they are going to be tracked AND the time to hit sprint to close the distance to pounce BEFORE the hunter completes the animation!)

Please add the in combat power return to Beneath Notice. It is logical that if you are putting that much damage out in the first place to gain aggro an in combat power return would be needed as you ping away in endurance to get the big ugly back on the tank.

2. Legendary Legacies for the Bow:

Hunters are the only class that must double dip for damage, power and threat legacies. The damage and power return legacies are essential to the hunter, yet we cannot even max out all 4 on a 3rd age weapon. Why is this the case? Champs can slot a AOE, a Crit to cover all attacks, and then slot individual attacks for their weapons. You want us to be more flexible in our choices, yet we cannot because you single us out by making us use slots for both focus and induction attacks. When can this be fixed?

3. Legendary Legacies for Main Hand:
Again we cannot max out a 3rd age weapon in the areas that we need to have to be the new and improved hunter that you envision. Precision crit will be on every hunter's list because we cannot sustain focus regen in S:S for any length of time. Needful Haste will be a must since the change in the skill. Same with SotE since it also changed in ROI. We will need Intent Concentration power return to help with the power costs you have alluded to as well. Add in Beneath Notice, and the Max AOE targets since we and suddenly AOE damage dealers (again poorly thought out imo because hunters are not built to deal with multple mobs on them). I ususally slot the Agile Rejoiner heal, but that will stay at 50% since I have no points to put into it, or points to increase the damage to my legenday weapon.

4. Why are we losing so much damage when traiting Yellow line? You want us to be a secondary CC skill toon, but to even come close to being a decent third place finisher we need to severly limit damage traits and completely rework our Bows and Weapons to fill this slot. Even when we choose to do this we will drop below the dps output of a burg or lm so really how is this putting us in any competetion with the CCers?

5. Why isn't barbed arrow scaling properly?

6. Will campfire get rescaled to match level 75 toons?

Hope all the question marks are in place. Oh since trackers are usually quiet and careful, stealth would probably be a better place to start with us than having said archer put 8 arrows on a bow and having a chance to hit anything besides a barn. Instead of getting your knickers in a twist and whining how we are being unfair try looking at it from our side (the side that pays the bills) when we have heard nothing for 4 months. We suddenly see huge changes that were never discussed with the class that needs to use them, and then only answereing once while saying you would be opening a Q and A over a holiday weekend that you posted. The quotes on the other forums were demeaning to the hunters and you got caught with your foot in your mouth with the burg statement. Sorry but when you list an RK as a top tier dpser and tell them that burgs will be alongside them in damage you put them right next to us and the champs as well.


Tydalmir

[Lowj]

Guys, discuss all you want, but ZC isn't coming back to answer any more questions:

Aaaaand we're done here! When the dev diary comes out in (some unknown amount of time) I'll be around for more questions. Lata!

Just thought I'd post that here since he didn't make a new post for that, but rather stuck it at the end of the OP, so some/many will miss that bit of info.

[Daeloth07]

A question in personal interest:
Will hunters ever get an appropriate class item, like quivers, instead of tomes?

[DreamMaster]

I never bought a Lifetime Membership, so I've been paying consistantly since the game was released. I haven't played as much lately, but was really looking forward to the new expansion.

I've loved playing my Hunter, but after reading this thread, and ZC's comments, I'm left wth a bad taste in my mouth. I'm still going to play, to see first-hand how the gameplay has changed, but I'm not too optimistic that I will be staying with the game. I hope it's better than everyone is saying.

[LadyDena]

Same here. Stuff like this is one reason why I will never pay for something like a life time membership or even a 12-month one. As soon as you do that, you instantly give up your ability to vote with your wallet against things like this. Food for thought for everyone considering paying long term.

[Herukhuti]

One more question for ZC...

Are you going to change the name of our Class from Hunter to Mushroom? We've been kept in the dark, so it's only appropriate.

[Divona.]

I was reading ZC answers and started to thinking. Most classes have more than 1 role to switch to except hunters. We should all agree no one who will pick hunter and level to max wont be slotting anything else than pure dps (red or blue doesnt matter).

Hunter doesnt have any other good secondary role except dps and our of combat travel skills that consist huge amount of total skills comparing what other classes have. Yet this class struggles to get decent updates that will last long and wont get nerfed by next updates because everyone trait something that makes class alot better overall. Now Why is it so hard to balance and make hunter a desired and feared single target dps class that are WANTED in groups and raids over DPS'ing RK's and burgs and WS minstrels or let alone champs?

Cant hunters at least be really good on one role that is also pretty much ONLY role hunter fills (not talking about solo melee mez and heal skills).

Cant wait for hunter diary and how it tries to explain changes about focus gain and costs.

[Kongas]

Cant hunters at least be really good on one role that is also pretty much ONLY role hunter fills (not talking about solo melee mez and heal skills).

The answer to that is 'No' apparently.

[MurkyMajare]

I always found it unfair that hunter's needs so many more legacies on their LIs than other classes (partially except minstrels).

A champ for example "only" has one legacy to increase dps, but the hunter have two such "must-haves"
Likewise with legacies like others cost reduction compared to our - two - cost reduction legacies.

Spending points we get *far* fewer benefits than all other classes as we simply have more "must-haves" to spend them on - at least within one specific role.

Of course other classes can specialize in more than one role at once, and thus must spread their points around, but it is silly for a minstrel to go for both healing and dps on the same item.

The hunter however, needs to spread their points around even to get their most basic role - and thus get fewer benefits than others.

[DorianFalkenmond]

@Divona: hunters 2. role is taxi.

I agree too you. But Kongas is right.

Dont expect the hunter dev diary to explain much. The reason is always "because he can".

[Poppycock]

There is a new thread started (hunters) where beta players are answering questions from people about what to expect when RoI goes live. As most have surmised, there will likely be no further changes to the beta build before live in a couple of weeks so what is in beta is likely what you will be getting late September. If you want answers to your questions, you should ask the beta testers on that thread, they have been good at getting back to people. If you want to:

1) Ask Turbine about future changes to hunters with no concrete answers forthcoming;
2) Bash Turbine generally;
3) Bash each other;

Keep wasting your time in this thread. I agree that communications may not have been as forthcoming as they should have been, but if I was ZC reading the pages of insults, abuses and personal attacks levelled against me, I would have hung us all out to dry as well. Cheers.

[Whart]

Keep wasting your time in this thread. I agree that communications may not have been as forthcoming as they should have been, but if I was ZC reading the pages of insults, abuses and personal attacks levelled against me, I would have hung us all out to dry as well. Cheers.

Except that ZC is a representative of a large and distinguished company and his communications to that company's customer base should be reflective of that role. Turbine/WB's customers have a right to expect friendly, mature, and informative customer service in all interactions with company representatives. When you have a customer group that has tested a new product and is concerned about it, you above all show them that you understand and value their opinion, even if that new product is final and here to stay. You give them more information, you get them excited about the changes by demonstrating with solid evidence how the changes will improve their experience. You don't say 'we're done here' and walk away.

[DorianFalkenmond]

Nobody (from the players..) forced ZC to do this thread. Especially nobody forced him to do it when he did not really have time or wanted to do it.

HE did that, HE asked for questions, HE announced answers. Seeing how it went, it looks like an alibi. "Oh I did all I could do, but the MEAN players.."

Just pretending to communicate. Obviously, he is right about some players, they dont see through it.

There are other devs that _do_ communicate. Especially Orion did a great job here. And that is certainly not that easy, with other devs who do not want and do not like to communicate. Like ZC.

[Forgotten_Legend]

OK... so after having spoken to a Hunter who's in the Beta, I have two more questions for ZC...

First question: what's the deal with Strength Stance? The +threat and +power use have been removed, which is bad for the threat part and good for the power part (imho) but the damage modifier has gone down from 20% to 10%? At least that's what my friend reports it at, being full red traited. I *know* that we'll have Hunter's Art which applies a 20s buff and has 10s cd so theoretically you could be on 20% if you manage to keep 2 buffs going. In reality, it seems, that's highly unlikely at best. So what... couldn't introduce Hunter's Art without reducing (nerfing sounds more fun, doesn't it?) the damage component of S:S?

yeah this one has already been answered: S:S has always been base +10% damage, and the bowmaster line bonuses now affect ALL damage, instead of just S:S, so now the other stances get the bonus damage as well. as for hunter's art... maintaining the +10% damage boost from that gains you even MORE damage in S:S. (default +10% +3% 2BM bonus, +4-7% 5BM bonus +10% HA bonus = +27-30% damage in S:S)

as for the threat component: i've always found that ISB>PS>BLood Arrow will typically steal aggro from anyone but the tank or off tank. if that doesn't do the trick, the 3s induction heartseeker will. and i almost always run S:P... the only exception being disease wing tree fight during the burns on the trees, or the lieutentant of Dol Guldor's "bird"

I did ask a couple questions that I didn't see previously answered. I will snip for brevity's sake.

1) Why was Strong Draw "too good" but Deadly Precision acceptable? Deadly Precision has always been equally valuable in generating Focus as Strong Draw was in saving it.

my guess? strong draw was a guaranteed 4 focus per 10 seconds, while deadly precision is still rooted in the RNG, and subject to level of the target. higher level target than you means lower crit chance and less focus.

2) Why was Arrow Storm, the other trait we had available to reduce Focus costs, removed? It wasn't anywhere near the "too good" level of Strong Draw but it was removed as well.

to be honest... the old arrow storm was a wasted slot for me... 1 focus every 10 seconds on a skill that a) can potentially generate up to 10 focus anyway, (1 focus compared to 9 isn't worth it to me) and b) didn't get used every 10 seconds because of its 10m radius waking up CC'd mobs. compared to the 4 focus every 10s saved from strong draw, it was really weak.

i actually MUCH prefer the new arrow storm: RoA crit resets both ranged AoE skills. it's situational enough that the extra AoE DPS can be more potent than the previous iteration. and it won't step on deathstorm champs' toes either.

[VincentVanPort]

to be honest... the old arrow storm was a wasted slot for me... 1 focus every 10 seconds on a skill that a) can potentially generate up to 10 focus anyway, (1 focus compared to 9 isn't worth it to me) and b) didn't get used every 10 seconds because of its 10m radius waking up CC'd mobs. compared to the 4 focus every 10s saved from strong draw, it was really weak.

i actually MUCH prefer the new arrow storm: RoA crit resets both ranged AoE skills. it's situational enough that the extra AoE DPS can be more potent than the previous iteration. and it won't step on deathstorm champs' toes either.

Aren't you confusing Arrow storm with, ehm, Hail of Arrows? It is about confusing since both traits and the skill use meteorological elements. Hitting one skill includes rain, hail and storm. Who thought that one skill can hit just like Irene.
I believe Hail of Arrows was dropped altogether, isn't that so?

[Lestache]

I always found it unfair that hunter's needs so many more legacies on their LIs than other classes (partially except minstrels).

A champ for example "only" has one legacy to increase dps, but the hunter have two such "must-haves"
Likewise with legacies like others cost reduction compared to our - two - cost reduction legacies.

Spending points we get *far* fewer benefits than all other classes as we simply have more "must-haves" to spend them on - at least within one specific role.

Of course other classes can specialize in more than one role at once, and thus must spread their points around, but it is silly for a minstrel to go for both healing and dps on the same item.

The hunter however, needs to spread their points around even to get their most basic role - and thus get fewer benefits than others.

Champ weapon legacies to increase DPS:

Pool A
+AoE damage
+Crit multiplier
+Brutal Strikes damage (for 2-handers)
+Remorseless damage (for dual-wielders)
+Wild Attack damage
+Feral Strikes damage
+Rend damage (small increase, rarely used)

Most Champs will want at least 4 pool As: AoE, Crit, Brutal or Remorseless, and Wild Attack.

Pool B
Battle Frenzy cooldown (can add 5 fervour every 40s instead of every 1m)
Horn damage (not terribly popular, but does increase DPS)
Increased Rend Armor Reduction (more of a passive DPS increase, really, but still an increase).

Many Champs want at least BF cooldown. Which brings our total of desired DPS legacies up to five at minimum - out of ten legacies that increase DPS. Want to trade?

Also, you must not have any close Captain friends, as they get to deal with having 5-6 desirable (nigh-required) pool A Emblem legacies just for healing.

I'm pretty sure that every class has to deal with having at least four legacies on a single LI that are considered "must-haves" for their primary role in groups. I don't think that Hunters are exactly alone in that regard.

[Eckenbrand]

Dear Devs,

Please nerf the Burglar trait Trickster, as it will be THE trait that most Burglars slot now thanks to the 3-target Startling Twist.

Still waiting for the nerf to the Trickster trait, as it will be THE MOST TRAITED TRAIT for Burgs after RoI, like Strong Draw is for Hunters

[Hammerfast]

I could see doing a pass on the Chants some time. Maybe reducing their potency a bit and putting that potency into traitlines or legacies as you pointed out. Such a pass could include adding a number of new chant types with different focuses, kind of like the chisels you mentioned or the instrument changes for Minstrels.

Sounds like you are whipping out the nerf bat again. Why is it that the solution to you guys is always in the form of a nerf? I suppose nerfing a working mechanic is a lot easier than inventing a creative and fun new mechanic, right?

[Forgotten_Legend]

Aren't you confusing Arrow storm with, ehm, Hail of Arrows?

good sir, i may be bacon defecient... but i... excuse me, i smell the aroma of bacon. brb

It is about confusing since both traits and the skill use meteorological elements. Hitting one skill includes rain, hail and storm. Who thought that one skill can hit just like Irene.

well played sir! but your attempts at tomfoolery are stifled by the fact that tomfools can't be tomfooled without extreme tomfoolery resistance debuffs! and even then, our racial tomfoolery immunity is more than enough to overcome them!

I believe Hail of Arrows was dropped altogether, isn't that so?

hail of arrows trait remains the same: + [level based] crit rating and +25% crit muliplier for rain of arrows. and is actually useful again with the lifting of the crit chance cap to 25%!

[Daeloth07]

Champ weapon legacies to increase DPS:

Pool A
+AoE damage
+Crit multiplier
+Brutal Strikes damage (for 2-handers)
+Remorseless damage (for dual-wielders)
+Wild Attack damage
+Feral Strikes damage
+Rend damage (small increase, rarely used)

Most Champs will want at least 4 pool As: AoE, Crit, Brutal or Remorseless, and Wild Attack.

[...]

Want to trade?

Hunter optimized equivalent:

Pool A
+Single target damage
+50% Crit multiplier (Note: 1 Legacy)
+Swift Bow damage
+Penetrating Shot damage
+Rain of Arrows damage
+Blood Arrow damage
+Quick Shot damage

Yes, i would.

[Hammerfast]

Questions left unanswered:

2. Legendary Legacies for the Bow:

Hunters are the only class that must double dip for damage, power and threat legacies. The damage and power return legacies are essential to the hunter, yet we cannot even max out all 4 on a 3rd age weapon. Why is this the case? Champs can slot a AOE, a Crit to cover all attacks, and then slot individual attacks for their weapons. You want us to be more flexible in our choices, yet we cannot because you single us out by making us use slots for both focus and induction attacks. When can this be fixed?

Tydalmir

^This^

Obviously, they are still trying to keep a chain around the hunter's neck so that people will be willing to play other classes. My solution to the problem of "too many hunters" is not viable to Turbine, but it IS the most reasonable solution: make the other classes more fun to play instead of making the hunter less fun to play. Turbine's policy - since the initial launch of the game - has been to nerf the heck out of the hunter so that it's not so darn much fun to play. How logical is that?