Official Discussion: Isengard LOTRO Store availability and Turbine Point Cost

[NoNameGamer]

And this proofs what a lot of people said before. Older questpacks getting cheaper as the new ones. I paid for the Mirkwood special edition 29,99 € as a preorder, for the Moria special edition 59,99 €.

Not sure about european pricing, but as a North American lifer, I bought both the Mikwood expansion and the Adventure Pack for $20 during the preorder period. I think the regular price for month-to-month subscribers was $20 for the expansion and $10 for the adventure pack. Not sure if i got this right, but I think those on 3 month subscriptions actually got the expansion for free. This was all before f2p. So people paid between $0 at the low end to $20 at the high end for the entire Mirkwood expansion during pre-order in North America.

As for Moria, I'm pretty sure I paid $30 for it during pre-order, but it was a long time ago so I'm not 100% sure.

[probitas]

Why do the ads make it seem like you need to buy ROI to get a level increase? That's one of the reasons I bought the thing, so I could increase the level of my characters after launch who have been stagnated even while doing quests and getting full xp credit that is useless. It's a tad misleading, since that is exactly how I read it. If it's been explained beforehand and I've missed it because I'm not digging hard enough in the forms to find it, why do the ads still show it?

I was hoping it would force people to buy it so Turbine would get money by forcing people to pay to be able to enter the zones and gain levels to fight at the higher ends, even if they give the zones away.

Though, for the money, I get those horses on all the characters, and new ones I make too(?). So I guess it's not that bad if you just consider it a fluff purchase account wide.

[Kerin_Eldar]

I'm sorry to see people unhappy with how things turned-out and I do wish Turbine would have released more concrete details sooner, but ultimately the responsibility is on each one of us to make sure we know the details before making a 'large' purchase like an expansion.

They deliberately did NOT release the info earlier, it was an entirely cynical manipulation of information, taking into account the things people were posting about this. They KNEW people were buying TP in "preparation" for RoI and chose NOT to stop the players going down a blind ally.

One can only hope that people now realise the cynical way Turbine are now treating players.

[Kerin_Eldar]

The actual quote "While we have not settled on final point pricing for Isengard once it is available in the store, the current thinking is it will be priced somewhere north of Mirkwood and Moria (the expansions, not the quest packs)."

This doesn't state that price will be somewhat north of moria and mirkwood combined, even with that interpretation, it is still a %70 increase over the cost of moria and mirkwood combined. This is still misleading.

I know you're not arguing this, but it isn't REASONABLE for someone reading that to take it to mean the price will be north of the combined price, the word AND clearly isn't intended to mean PLUS.

Not only is the meaning quite clear, it's also totally NOT reasonable to expect that Turbine were remotely hinting that the cash price of RoI would be higher than the combined prices of their previous two expansions: it just wouldn't be credible for them to try to sell it at such a price.

Anyone (such as some of the Turbine fanbois here trying to defend this action) arguing that Sapience's statement was at all ambiguous and that the PLAYERS are at fault, is simply showing how gullible they are in believing Turbine can do no wrong.

[Jurny]

Anyone (such as some of the Turbine fanbois here trying to defend this action) arguing that Sapience's statement was at all ambiguous and that the PLAYERS are at fault, is simply showing how gullible they are in believing Turbine can do no wrong.

This is really ridiculous, blaming Turbine for something people did themselves. The way I see it, Turbine offered points to be bought and some people took advantage of buying those points. No one really knows the reason behind those purchases. It sure is easy to come out now and say they were purchased for the expansion. Where is your proof?? If people bought points for an expansion, that they had no idea how much it would cost in the end, it's those peoples faults, not Turbines.


How about some of you take responsibility for your own actions. It's so easy to place blame on others, when in fact no one told you to buy them!!!


Everyone had choices to make. You could either buy TP (blindly I might add) or wait for more information about the expansion. Then they came out with the pre-order. Which had all or most of the info on the purchase of it.


So putting this more into perspective, a person could blindly purchase TP's or pay for the expansion with real money!!
What people did was no ones fault but thier own!!!!






~

[JasonEvan]

Hey Turbine,

People are ticked and I can't say as I blame them. Why don't you treat your lifers like gold? Let them buy the pre-order with TP at the same price. Then you also get money off of people like me who pre-order the expansion with money. It's win-win. Happy customers are repeat customers.

Hey Players,

Some people seem hopelessly addicted to this game. Like, they hate this business model but refuse to close their wallets. What's wrong with you? If they are conducting business in a manner you think unfit for your dollar, shut your wallet and open it up to a different company that makes games you like.

[UnlikelyBeing]

Hey Players,

Some people seem hopelessly addicted to this game. Like, they hate this business model but refuse to close their wallets. What's wrong with you? If they are conducting business in a manner you think unfit for your dollar, shut your wallet and open it up to a different company that makes games you like.

Granted there are many players who go from one mmo to the next. To them lotro is just another mmo.

From my own observations lotro seems to have a lot of first time mmo players who have come to lotro because it is Tolkien - it is Middle Earth! If it weren't for that fact they wouldn't have even considered playing an mmo. I have met many players in game who fall into this category. They think the game is great and worth playing even when acknowledging its flaws and limitations.

To these players (which include myself) there is no other mmo to move to. They are not necessarily addicted, they actually enjoy it and perhaps have developed a network of friends that also helps keeps them playing. They could just close their wallets, and whether they are leaving the game or not, I am sure that is what some are doing.

The problem for these players, is that they want the game to continue to be successful, but they do not want to give their money to a company they can no longer trust. Perhaps also as a result of this mistrust and loss of good faith that has been created over the past months, they maybe hesitant about spending time in a game they can't see a future for (for them personally I mean, not that lotro itself has no future).

These players should be complaining and expressing their dissatisfaction if they want to see Turbine reconsider its marketing policy. If they do not they are giving Turbine implicit approval or showing unawareness.

It is also worth noting that not putting hand in pocket anymore (especially if they have already bought points for ROI or paid cash for the pre-order) won't show up on Turbine's revenue radar for months. We all have our 'breaking point' on such matters. It is unlikely everyone will stop paying out money to Turbine at the same time. It is more likely to have a steady impact over time and there is no guarantee that Turbine will ever see the connection between their underhand marketing and customer service and any drop in sales unless players complain loud enough about it at the time.

[Barrynor]

Hi guys, I’ll try to clear up some of the confusion around the instances and the Draigoch raid.

Five instances will ship with Update 5, but they are actually part of Isengard. They’re just delayed. So they aren’t part of the free Update 5 content. This is why they are listed for sale as part of our a la carte options in the LOTRO Store. Just to be clear, there is free content in Update 5. We’ll talk more about it after Isengard launches .

As for Draigoch, Kate broke this news to everyone back in March and it has been mentioned several times since then as now being a part of Isengard.

I hope that clears things up for everyone.

I'm certain that if there were that radical a departure of their past methodology, there would be press releases, forum posts, and probably mass mailings to advise that they were completely removing the subscription model.

I still don't get where all the confusion lies about future content.

Sept 27, 2011: RoI Part I (purchased prior, or spend points on it after)
December 2011: RoI Part II (purchased prior, or spend points on it after)
December 2011: Update 5 (free to subscribers (VIP) or spend points on it after).
2012: Update 6 (free to subscribers (VIP) or spend points on it after).
2012: Update 7 (free to subscribers (VIP) or spend points on it after).
2012: Update 8 (free to subscribers (VIP) or spend points on it after).
Last edited by Roberto_the_First; Sep 09 2011 at 06:12 PM.

I sure hope this is all correct and such, because otherwise I'm cancelling my lifet... no wait... I'll spend my free TP on SW:KO... no wait... BUST MY MODEM WITH A HAMMER AND EA... no wait, that would give me indigestion...


So I am left with the choice of paying $30 on the expansion, or spending my 6000 TP to get it piece by piece. I'm leaning towards forking out the cash atm. All that TP buying is such a hassle. My wife is leaning towards spending half her current amount of TP's on the entire lot, because she's only bought one (yes, thats ONE) emote, as her only purchase, from the store since F2P hit. That was 195 TP. She has about 12.000 points I think. So yes, she's getting the expanion for free, and yes, she thinks its "expensive" in TP, and no, she doesnt really care. We spend a year and half's worth of fees on this game and then bought a lifetime for 200 euros per person from codies. By the time F2P came, we had reached the point we were really playing "for free" as the cost of subscription was payed by the lifetime till then. So we spend about E400 in total on this game I think. Lots of cash? Yes... I think I payed about .02 cents per hour that I played.


I don't really see a reason to complain at this point in time.

[Maelendil]

Don't you love how it is not "technically possible" to sell a bundle for TPs in the game store, while it is "technically possible" to do it if you pay for cash ? "Technically possible" seems to be the new keyword for charging their customer as much as possible, as in not "technically possible" to pre-order. Or not "technically possible" to launch Draigloch for free in april.

I preordered Moria and Mirkwood, but I will pass this time. I will pay with TP whenever I have enough, even though I would have been happy to support the game if Turbine did not take this approach to customer relations...

[0rdinary0wl]

If you walked into a game shop and looked at a two year old game on the shelf and a brand new, just released game on the shelf, you'd probably notice a significant price difference there as well. Similar thing here.

And in that same store there's a bin of recently released games at a discounted price because they failed to warrant the original price. That's where RoI would be heading.

[Garethporlest18]

And in that same store there's a bin of recently released games at a discounted price because they failed to warrant the original price. That's where RoI would be heading.

Huh? I never saw games like that, unless you're talking about used games. Every game now and days gets released around the same price. RoI is still only $30. That's not overpricing anymore than any Xbox 360 game (and there's quite a few with less content than RoI!).

You can't really count the TP cost into that. Still though, I wonder what Moria and Mirkwood would have been at their release, if a LOTRO store had been around. I'm pretty sure Mirkwood would have been in the 4k range and Moria in the 7k range. So it makes this 6k range not seem so unreasonable. Seeing as what..Moria is 3 YEARS old and still over 2,000 points. You guys just keep basing it off of those two games as their cost is now and you just cannot do that, it's silly. They're old.

[Beleg-Of-Doriath]

Pre-orders cannot be purchased with Turbine Points. While we have not settled on final point pricing for Isengard once it is available in the store, the current thinking is it will be priced somewhere north of Mirkwood and Moria (the expansions, not the quest packs).

The idea that what he meant by this was Moria and Mirkwood combined I think is wholly false. Anyone reading that statement would believe they were being refered to seperately. Replacing 'and' with 'or' here wouldn't sound correct.

If he really meant combined with that statement then he would have stated so more clearly by adding the word 'combined' at the end.

[0rdinary0wl]

Huh? I never saw games like that, unless you're talking about used games. Every game now and days gets released around the same price. RoI is still only $30. That's not overpricing anymore than any Xbox 360 game (and there's quite a few with less content than RoI!).

You can't really count the TP cost into that. Still though, I wonder what Moria and Mirkwood would have been at their release, if a LOTRO store had been around. I'm pretty sure Mirkwood would have been in the 4k range and Moria in the 7k range. So it makes this 6k range not seem so unreasonable. Seeing as what..Moria is 3 YEARS old and still over 2,000 points. You guys just keep basing it off of those two games as their cost is now and you just cannot do that, it's silly. They're old.

It has nothing to do with Moria and Mirkwood. Pardon me if shelling out $30 isn't worth 10 levels of quests and a raid we were supposed to have months ago. If RoI had everything it should have, then I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it.

[0rdinary0wl]

Hey Players,

Some people seem hopelessly addicted to this game. Like, they hate this business model but refuse to close their wallets. What's wrong with you? If they are conducting business in a manner you think unfit for your dollar, shut your wallet and open it up to a different company that makes games you like.

My wallet is shut, but it's because of the friends I have made. They're the best part of LOTRO and they're not something Turbine can ever sell in their store.

[monteeburns]

Why do the ads make it seem like you need to buy ROI to get a level increase? It's a tad misleading, since that is exactly how I read it.

Because Turbine like to pretend that many of the listed 'benefits' of the expansion are exclusive to those that pay ( in a desperate attempt to make it look a much better deal than it actually is ), when infact those features are available to anyone, whether they buy the expansion or not. Yet more desperate and deceptive marketing. That's entirely your fault for reading it that way though, nothing at all to do with Turbine misrepresenting what you are paying for, at least that's how some around here see it.

[UnlikelyBeing]

And this proofs what a lot of people said before. Older questpacks getting cheaper as the new ones. I paid for the Mirkwood special edition 29,99 € as a preorder, for the Moria special edition 59,99 €.

And don't forget. Before F2P everybody had to pay for an expansion. Monthly paying custumers and also Lifetimers.

This is really the point though. When you bought MoM & SoM you also paid for the opportunity to level, do the epic quests and explore. With RoI these things are free to everyone so the paid for product does not include these.

[Zweiblumen]

Find me a single post where someone asked if the raid would be free prior to the TP pricing disclosure? From its anniversary announcement to now? You won't. Turbine had nothing to refute because no one asked anything.

Don't need to. As I said, Turbine are obliged to both answer any questions and correct any 'misinterpretations' of their marketing or PR material. If they fail to do both, then the fault is theirs, not the customers'.

The raid was announced at a time when ALL content updates outside of official 'expansion packs' were free to VIPs. They gave no indication that policy was going to change, either in general or specifically for the raid, so it was a reasonable conclusion for the customer to draw based on the information supplied that it would be provided for free.

They should have known that would be the drawn conclusion, and if didn't know it was their own shortcoming. And if they intended different they had a responsibility to advise the customers at the time. They did not, so based on the lack of correction of the assumption it is reasonable for the customer to conclude that, at the time, they planned to offer it for free.

So even if they always intended to charge, they misled by omission of vital information. They either ommitted information with the intent to mislead, or their marketing and PR material was inadequate and did not fully identify what they were offering. By that reckoning, Turbine were either deliberately deceptive or they were negligent, depending on how far you're prepared to go to give them the benefit of the doubt. Both of which are errors they are not permitted to make.

[NoNameGamer]

This is really the point though. When you bought MoM & SoM you also paid for the opportunity to level, do the epic quests and explore. With RoI these things are free to everyone so the paid for product does not include these.

I think his numbers are somewhat inflated cause he bought the special edition which has "extras" like audio cds and stuff. Check out my reply for the standard edition pre-order prices in North America.

[Jurny]

Because Turbine like to pretend that many of the listed 'benefits' of the expansion are exclusive to those that pay ( in an effect to make it look a much better deal than it actually is ), when infact those features are available anyone, whether they buy the expansion or not. Yet more desperate and deceptive marketing. That's entirely your fault for reading it that way though, nothing at all to do with Turbine misrepresenting what you are paying for, at least that's how some around here see it.

The only thing people will be able to do if they don't purchase ROI is the epic book..and maybe tasks? Unless I'm missing something, what else will they get?? And believe me, the book will not get you to level 75...not even close.
Sounds like a long grind to leveling if you ask me.



Would love to know what "benefits" you are talking about??




~

[Zweiblumen]

So, of their three selling points in their main promotional imagery, two are free to everyone regardless of whether they purchase or not, and the third was free until it was delayed.

Hmm.

[monteeburns]

My wallet is shut, but it's because of the friends I have made. They're the best part of LOTRO and they're not something Turbine can ever sell in their store.

This sums things up for me pretty well. A lot of people I know now just use lotro as a glorified chat service - Log in, stand in the 21st hall, chat with friends, then log out. No doubt in time Turbine will find a way to sell the chat channel in the store.

Sounds like a long grind to leveling if you ask me.
~

Well that'll work out perfectly as that's pretty much all there is to do until the mysterious missing instances turn up, and when that will be, is anyone's guess. With a bit of luck it'll be sometime before the new PvP area.

Would love to know what "benefits" you are talking about??
~

I think Zweiblumen has just done a rather splendid job of demonstrating this.

[Jurny]

So, of their three selling points in their main promotional imagery, two are free to everyone regardless of whether they purchase or not, and the third was free until it was delayed.

Hmm.

Yes..you may be able to explore those 3 new regions, and level to 75. But you won't be able to get rep as quickly as those people that have purchased ROI . In fact , it will take you such a LONG time GRINDING Reputation, that you won't be able to get rep based recipes, that are needed in every craft. You won't be able to complete deeds. The list goes on and on. If you all want to take the long road so be it. But please don't glorify it by making it sound easy.



~

[spiritintelligencia]

I have been here since the beginning. I play because of Tolkien and the artists and designers who have created this great world. And I play because of my friends here. I have posted almost a thousand times and I have kept all my posts helpful, funny, optimistic, and considerate of the fact that Turbine is a company of well-intentioned people... like you and me.

For the first time in 4 1/2 years, I don't trust you Turbine. With every statement you make, I will now be cynically at your words for what you are NOT saying. With every purchase and store release opportunity I will be looking at how you are nickel & diming me, and I will be looking to nickel & dime you right back.

If this is the path you have chosen to take with your customers, then it will bite you in the long run. When you give freely, people are more than happy to give to you right back. When people feel that you are honest and happy people working for their enjoyment, they are happy to support you above and beyond the expected.

You can market-speak this all you want. Customers KNOW when something in the room stinks. Maybe take this 40 page forum topic to the manager's meeting today, this Monday morning, and consider that you just MAY have made a wee mistake.

[monteeburns]

But please don't glorify it.
~

That's pretty funny when it's exactly what Turbine have done in their advertising....

[DaBrudders]

So, of their three selling points in their main promotional imagery, two are free to everyone regardless of whether they purchase or not, and the third was free until it was delayed.

Hmm.

Amen brother