Invisible Minstrel 'Adjustment'...

[Apparently]

I understand that there's probably a lot of tweaking and refining going on behind the scenes, especially after class changes as massive as what was done to minstrel in RoI. I imagine that many of these are small adjustments that don't warrant a full update, and don't seem to be important enough to bother mentioning.

But it really kind of stinks when you log in after a few days offline, run out to do battle, and suddenly find yourself doing FAR less damage than before, and dying repeatedly, without having the slightest idea why - and only after consulting others of your class, come to realize that you did NOT suddenly forget how to play.

It'd be really nice if there were some form of notice when a class was being adjusted, so that it doesn't come as a total surprise. I understand that this may not always be possible, or even desirable (lest people like me get all freaked out at the mere mention of the word 'change') but still, it'd be nice.

Please consider this option before your next supposedly invisible tweak.

[Opticals]

What adjustment are you talking about? I haven't noticed any drop in my minstrel DPS. Not saying I don't believe you -- just that I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

There has not been any change that I noticed. Did you pull a Yula? Forget something like going into War Speech?

[asearchforreason]

I thought I noticed this last night, but dismissed it as just my imagination. I had been regularly critting Coda of Fury for 2.4-3k on my 61 mini. Yesterday I noticed I was rarely getting crits and when I did crit, they seemed lower, in the 2000 range. If they did nerf mini dps a little, I think it is probably for the best. However, I think a more interesting way to go about it would be to increase power consumption in DPS mode while keeping DPS the same.

[Ailedra]

The mini forums are pretty quiet....you'd think if there were some sort of stealth nerf, there'd be some discussion going on over there.

There are a lot of reasons why you could have been doing less DPS last night. A ninja class adjustment is one of the least likely candidates on that list. As Yula asked, you WERE in WS, right? Remembered to activate your Tale (losing will and fate would lower your damage)? Missing buffs you normally had? All your items equipped (and repaired)?

[Gwenryth]

Such strange things also happend to me sometimes, and each time I found out later, that I didn't gave the points back to the legacies on my weapon/item after reforging it

[Yula_the_Mighty]

There are a lot of reasons why you could have been doing less DPS last night. A ninja class adjustment is one of the least likely candidates on that list. As Yula asked, you WERE in WS, right? Remembered to activate your Tale (losing will and fate would lower your damage)? Missing buffs you normally had? All your items equipped (and repaired)?

There are tons of things that could be changed on your character that would lower your damage output. I've forgotten toggles. I went around with my Champion or Hunter. What wrong with my DPS. Only to find out that I had not put any points into the DPS legacy. Or had the wrong legendary weapon equipped.

Like Ailedra stated - a game change that globally affects all the members of a class - it is going to get noticed - the class forum is going to light up like a Christmas tree with posts.

[Apparently]

I did check that I was in WS - because I do that all the TIME, run off into battle and forget to activate WS. The LI thing is a good point, but I was fine there, too. Nothing I can find that would explain why my damage dealt two days ago was significantly better than it is now. (Or why Chord of My Salvation, which is supposed to heal for 700-1100, is now showing occasional drops to the 300 range, standing still.)

My first assumption was that I'd messed up somehow. (ETA: My first assumption is ALWAYS that I've messed up somehow. I only start blaming others when I no longer have any way to blame myself. Then I figured, well, maybe it's just THIS mob. After playing for awhile and checking with others, I realized that it wasn't just me experiencing this effect. Perhaps I'm seeing it MORE than others, because my minstrel's morale is really pretty low for her level (need to work on that) but it's not just me, either. Maybe there IS another explanation... but I can't find it (and welcome more suggestions!)

And while I would agree that perhaps minstrel is a bit over-powered? that additional power came at the price of losing medium armor and the ability to heal others while in war-speech. So if that wonderful DPS we've been given is going to be toned down, I'd like to see something else added or boosted to compensate for it. Preferably in terms of armor or defense, or maybe a power boost, or something.

[Orion]

There were no changes to the Minstrel that I am aware of with any recent patch or update.

[Apparently]

There were no changes to the Minstrel that I am aware of with any recent patch or update.

Okay... thank you for the information, I appreciate it; but then why such a drastic change between logging off, uhhh, three? days ago, and logging back in yesterday? Any ideas other than those mentioned why I'm noticing this effect?

(ETA: Is it possible that there were Stat or Virtue changes in the last patch that might be affecting Minstrels, which possibly I'd notice more than others because of my abnormally low morale?)

[duedroth]

what's the PvMP situation like on your server? Maybe you're playing some days with buffs on since freeps are doing really well, and some days without?

Always remember that misses, crits, b/p/e, etc. are all really just dice rolls. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes unlucky, sometimes extreme in either direction, but in the long run it all evens out.

[Orion]

Okay... thank you for the information, I appreciate it; but then why such a drastic change between logging off, uhhh, three? days ago, and logging back in yesterday? Any ideas other than those mentioned why I'm noticing this effect?

(ETA: Is it possible that there were Stat or Virtue changes in the last patch that might be affecting Minstrels, which possibly I'd notice more than others because of my abnormally low morale?)

I do not believe so. Typically, everything that is in an interim patch like the one the other day is called out very clearly for all to see. If you are wearing a set of items, I would suggest removing a piece and then putting it back on. You can always file a bug too, though this does seem to be a very specific case.

[Swiftstrike]

Typically, everything that is in an interim patch like the one the other day is called out very clearly for all to see.

An interesting remark considering 33% of the patch notes for Wednesday's patch is "Addressed several unintended game play issues."

[Elleby]

Then I figured, well, maybe it's just THIS mob. After playing for awhile and checking with others, I realized that it wasn't just me experiencing this effect.

Who are these 'others' you mentioned? Also, what are their experiences?

Everybody here is saying there is no problem, you say there is and that others have it as well. Maybe there is a pattern that effects only certain people?

[orangeman]

I have a level 26 and level 58 mini that I have been playing regularly the last week and haven't noticed any change. Are you sure you had the right Tale running so you got your Will/Fate bonus? This is a huge dps difference if you forget to toggle it on now that the mini dps is based on Will. I forgot to do this once and noticed the difference right away.

[NecrosIX]

When a class is paranoid about getting nerfed. It's the right time for the nerf bat to hit

[Amagaim]

When a class is paranoid about getting nerfed. It's the right time for the nerf bat to hit

Dear God, please don't mention the Bat of Nerf. I'm actually having more fun leveling my Minstrel than I've had leveling my Burglar, simply due to the fact that I can get normal mobs down to less than 25% morale before they even reach melee range. Rare Signature mobs aren't even an issue at-level anymore, and unless there are adds along for the ride I'll throw down against a 1-to-1 Elite battle with only enough hesitation to double-check my cooldowns and +ICMR foods.

Should Minstrels have an impending date with the Rare Nemesis level Bat of Nerf to such an extreme that leveling becomes tedious like they were pre-RoI, I'm not certain that I'd be as willing to throw this one on my back all the way to cap. I'm already leveling a Guard in S&B mode, and really don't want another slog-filled process.

[Lilka]

Got your dps instrument on? Right traits? I've been instrument swapping and trait switching a lot lately, doing skirmish raids, and it would be easy to log on and march off to kill things traited Blues with my clarinet in hand.

If not I can only suggest you were a little unlucky in that session. My CoF sometimes does 2.3k, sure, but most often it does less than that, sometimes it's resisted. I don't yell nerf, I just figure 'eh, win some lose some'.

[Bradegor]

Please don´t nerf the minstrels. After all, what can they do? DPS as good as most DPS classes? Heal better than any other class? Give incredible buffs while either DPSing or healing? No power problems anymore?

Now seriously, put the other classes at the level of the minstrel instead of nerfing minstrels. Champions are already there. Now its time for the other classes...

[Magnetronius]

I haven't noticed any drop in dps myself recently and please please don't nerf my mini i think it's perfect the way it is how about instead of getting out the nerf bat of doom getting out the buff bat of awesome and just raise other classes up a bit more so that they too can be as epic as us mini's... just an idea :P

[issiana]

I haven't noticed any drop in dps myself recently and please please don't nerf my mini i think it's perfect the way it is how about instead of getting out the nerf bat of doom getting out the buff bat of awesome and just raise other classes up a bit more so that they too can be as epic as us mini's... just an idea :P

^^ this

having lvled under the old system and now the new system i have to say that the new mini is absolutly spot on. No bats needed. (unless you feel like giving us a bat familiar )

Turbine you totally got it right with minis now.

They are tons of fun to play, which has the side effect of encourageing more people to want to play them, thus increasing the pool of healers available for questing in game. Good job turbine

as to raising the other classes... nah.... just let us hobbit leaders be the captains we ought to be so we can inspire the lesser races to enhance their characters to greatness

[redwoodtreesprite]

I noticed it. My Herald's Strike suddenly doing almost 200 points of damage less per hit than before, with NO changes to anything made by me. I also felt suddenly even more squishy and it seemed to take longer to defeat the boars for the Galtrev daily task.

Something was definitely done, either intentionally or unintentionally. Ah well, such is the life of an MMO player...

[CFury]

I noticed no changes to my minstrel whatsoever.

I do notice there are days when I crit less and get hit for more, not just on minstrel but champion and other characters as well. There are days when I hardly get single Remorseless crit doing dailies on gray mobs.
I have been noticing that since I play. Bad days and good days, just like irl.

No need to get paranoid.

[MrKeks]

haha, funny thread