Fall Festival Returned .... wait what?

[Demelza]

One further note on a different theme (posted separately so as not to get lost in the lengthy waffle above!)...

I logged into the game just now (which I was actually not planning to do, over the weekend, so I would have missed the "bonus" Festival) to see whether the mention of a Monster Kill XP Bonus was true. (It appears not: at least not on the Laurelin Server.)

I noticed, though, that - just as when the "actual", original Harvest/Fall Festival started this year - there was no Invitation Letter from Opal Goodbody, the Party Planner of Hobbiton, notifying us that a Festival was underway.

If I had not read this Forum post - and I read very few, due to time constraints - I would have had no idea that a "bonus Festival weekend", as described by Celestrata (above), was running: the typical locations of my in-game Characters (a long way away from any definable "Festival Areas") means that it would be difficult to guess, without the usual Invitation Letter from Opal Goodbody, that any Festival had started. Indeed, I missed the first few days of the actual Harvest/Fall Festival this year, due to the absence of any Invitation Letter, combined with my Character(s) being in no Festival-related Area(s).

I posted a semi-humorous topic on this Forum on the same subject, asking what had happened to the Invitation Letter, at the start of the Harvest/Fall Festival proper, but I received no definitive answer, and I believe that "bumping" it in order to re-ask the question, as it were, is against the Forum Guidelines: hence my repeating the question in this post.

So... have the traditional Festival Invitation Letters gone for good, or is this a temporary situation? Opal Goodbody's cheery missives were always not only a nice way to "get into the party mood", but also served an excellent practical purpose (well, two actually): firstly, to inform existing players, who, like me, may not spend very long on either these Forums or external LotRO-related websites/Forums, and may hence not realise that any given Festival is underway, that a Festival has begun, thus giving us plenty of time to join in; and secondly, to "set the scene" and provide valuable information for *new* players, who may well not even know that LotRO even *HAS* Quarterly Festivals, and will certainly not know that they should home in on The Party Tree in order to collect Opal Goodbody's Festival Guide, which is useful even for existing players (when new events are added), and surely *essential* for new players who really won't know much about the where/what/how of each Festival's various different activities...?

And anyway: as I say here, and as I said in my original post, some weeks ago... I do miss Opal's Invitation Letter. It is/was(?) a great LotRO tradition and I always looked forward to reading it, both for its informative and its optimistic nature, and I, for one, would be very sad to see those Letters disappear from the game. They're one of "the little things" which make LotRO such a special game.

Let's hope that Opal was just so busy this year with so many Festival preparation tasks that she had no time to write to us - but that her Letters will reappear when the Yule Festival rolls around... which is not so far away, now!

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[0rdinary0wl]

Too bad, I really like festivals. Unfortunately I'll be busy "bounty hunting" this weekend.

[Jadzi]

Well, considering the (zero) relevance which "Thanksgiving" bears for the (significant) proportion of the player-base who aren't North American, and to prove to all the sceptical voices here that this (unprecedented) "double-take Festival" is genuinely an impromptu celebration of Thanksgiving, and *NOT* a marketing ploy to compete with Skyrim (must... resist... creating potions... will never escape!) and/or SW:TOR's beta weekend, how about introducing similar "bonus extra" events *each year* to cater for those of us who don't share the Thanksgiving tradition?

Because company that created, develops, and currently runs the game is American?

Don't get me wrong, I fully realize LOTRO has a global playerbase. It had such even before the Codemasters servers were brought under direct control of Turbine, and moreso now that that's happened. And yes, the IP the game is based on is of British origin, and entirely based on the lands, cultures, and languages of Europe.

And generally, the issue of religious or regional preference or lore-related issues are handled neatly by having a series of quarterly festivals to coincide with the seasons. A generic spring, summer, fall, and winter festival.

And yet? The people who are creating the game and its events, along with a fairly substantial portion of the population, are still American. Thanksgiving is a pretty big deal for most Americans. It's heavily engrained in the culture. Is it really that hard to believe that American developers, heading out on an American holiday, might leave some little treat to coincide with the holiday?

Unprecedented it may be. But then, the Anniversary celebration, with steeds and cosmetics and maps? That was unprecedented. Frostbluff was unprecedented. The Haunted Burrow was unprecedented. As time goes on, things are added, and each year new decisions made, new precedents set. Why must we be so suspicious of such things?

[0rdinary0wl]

Well, considering the (zero) relevance which "Thanksgiving" bears for the (significant) proportion of the player-base who aren't North American, and to prove to all the sceptical voices here that this (unprecedented) "double-take Festival" is genuinely an impromptu celebration of Thanksgiving, and *NOT* a marketing ploy to compete with Skyrim (must... resist... creating potions... will never escape!) and/or SW:TOR's beta weekend, how about introducing similar "bonus extra" events *each year* to cater for those of us who don't share the Thanksgiving tradition?

Treat it like the server merger was a trip on the Mayflower and now you're here to celebrate with the natives.

And for the record, I would completely support the idea of Stock-toberfest in the The Shire.

There's no such thing as Stock-toberfest?!

Ya used me Skinner! Ya USED ME!

[BrianDavion]

as for this corrasponding with thanks giveing... as a Canadian who celebrated mine last month, I see no reason to be anything but pleased. as it was I got busy dureing the festival and forgot to trade in 20 tokens, now I've got aanother Warg painting so thanks turbine!

[Laerien]

well I "finished" fall Festival in all my chars but its is nice to have a time extension. Maybe some spare tokens for cosmetics or a few more league delivers for reputation. Cheers

[Blaize_EU]

Can't help but think that maybe they should've just timed the fesitval to end this weekend instead of bringing it back...

[swattz101]

Pumpkin or pecan?

How's a hobbit to choose?

A slice of EACH!!!

[Fulksayyan]

I guess we now have to prepare for another onslaught of forced emotes.... Oh, joy....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Good luck, Keep complaining and hopefully peopel on your server will do it more, Maby one day we will be able to go one festival without listening to you and the small group taht does complain. Just because you get louder, doesent make your point any more valid. Stop playing during festivals, Seems to me like you have that fancy lifetime membership, probably means you don't have to play every day! Or better yet, Maby you should just complain more, Because doing so gets soo much done around here!

[Loriandra1979]

Good luck, Keep complaining and hopefully peopel on your server will do it more, Maby one day we will be able to go one festival without listening to you and the small group taht does complain. Just because you get louder, doesent make your point any more valid. Stop playing during festivals, Seems to me like you have that fancy lifetime membership, probably means you don't have to play every day! Or better yet, Maby you should just complain more, Because doing so gets soo much done around here!

Whoa.... did you get out of bed on the wrong foot this morning?

It seriously is annoying when you're standing around ingame somewhere, just talking to people, and all of a sudden your character drops to the floor because some other funny guy or girl has used one of those annoying forced emotes.

[Fulksayyan]

complain louder, maby turbine will listen.......


Your audacious to think that it only happens to you, or your the only ones that get annoyed by it, What it doesent happen to me?

I run teh largest kin on my server, i cant go anywhere without it happening all the time, even when there isnt a festival, and the ones that completed teh deed, well there the first to show it off during teh middle of a kin meeting,.

I dont complain, hell i just keep moving, or mount the hell up.

I dont come to teh forums and whine about things that others enjoy, just because i find them unnapeasing.

a minority is just that a minority, complaining louder doesen't make you any more of a majority!

[LetsDance]

SWTOR open beta commences today and runs through the weekend. Turbine are fighting back with the return of fall festival and 50% discount on ROI for the 25th Nov only.

[Demelza]

NB : For those who prefer to avoid long posts: This post is NOT as long as it looks (it has many quotes) but is still fairly long.

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I think my point was perhaps misunderstood. (Note to self: stop using so much sarcasm...!)

Anyway, to clarify a few points...

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@0rdinary0wl:

I would completely support the idea of Stock-toberfest in the The Shire.

Good joke - but, jokes aside, I really do think we have enough Festivals. For reasoning, see below... if you can face reading all the waffle! I really don't think that introducing any more Festivals - and especially not ones which are nation-specific - is a good idea.

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@BrianDavion:

as for this corrasponding with thanks giveing... as a Canadian who celebrated mine last month, I see no reason to be anything but pleased. as it was I got busy dureing the festival and forgot to trade in 20 tokens, now I've got aanother Warg painting so thanks turbine!

Since the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday, held during early October (i.e. at harvest time) is actually a legal recognition of the age-old *liturgical* (religious) tradition of Harvest Festivals common to all nations, I regard it as being fundamentally different from the American Thanksgiving holiday, which is a *historical* celebration, occurring too late in the year to be considered as being within harvest time. I always feel that the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday, and equivalent harvest-time holidays/Festivals held in all other countries, are what LotRO's Harvest/Fall Festival actually represents.

Still, I'm glad you managed to get your Warg Painting. I've got a couple of those and they're great fun!

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@Jadzi:

Because company that created, develops, and currently runs the game is American?

Er, I know! But a gaming company should cater primarily for its player-base, not its staff, and, as you say yourself:

[...] LOTRO has a global playerbase. It had such even before the Codemasters servers were brought under direct control of Turbine, and moreso now that that's happened. And yes, the IP the game is based on is of British origin, and entirely based on the lands, cultures, and languages of Europe.

Indeed: hence - if you ask me - the fact that Turbine shouldn't be introducing (if they are) *any* nation-specific Festivals/special events. This includes my example of Guy Fawkes' Night - I would *not* wish to see this included within LotRO, but gave it simply as an example of a celebration which means as much to Americans as the US Thanksgiving means to British/European people, i.e. not a lot.

As you say, *ALL* nations, worldwide, and particularly within Europe, where LotR is set, have always held Quarterly celebrations of one kind or another: the Christian/Muslim/{fill in paternalistic religion here} Quarterly festivals observed today are simply overlaid on top of much older Pagan festivals: typically the Celtic ones (Samhain, Beltane, etc.), although even the Celts of Europe overlaid *their* festivals upon older traditions, wherever they found indigenous peoples in their wanderings.

And generally, the issue of religious or regional preference or lore-related issues are handled neatly by having a series of quarterly festivals to coincide with the seasons. A generic spring, summer, fall, and winter festival.

Exactly: perfectly appropriate and, I believe, quite enough, too - as I said above. To explain further:

The celebration of the Four Seasons - represented by LotRO's Quarterly Festivals - has been common to almost all nations worldwide since time immemorial, and as such, both caters for *ALL* members of LotRO's player-base *and* has a solid basis in the LotR Lore canon. It's the addition of celebrations which are either nation-specific and/or of recent origin which seems, to me, unsuitable.

It also, incidentally, risks introducing the "overkill factor": we already have the four Quarterly Festivals (each lasting three weeks, making a total of 12 weeks' celebration: nearly a quarter of the year!), plus the Anniversary Celebration (another couple of weeks), plus occasional "Welcome Back Weeks" (where you earn Silver/Gold etc. Tokens, from enemy kills, to exchange for various Gift Boxes); if much more is added, there is a pretty high chance that festivals/special events will lose their "rarity" appeal and become so commonplace as to be dull and boring. That would be a real shame.

The people who are creating the game and its events, along with a fairly substantial portion of the population, are still American.

I agree that, no doubt, it's fun for Turbine, with its (as far as I know?) pretty much entirely American staff, to celebrate Thanksgiving, but expecting non-American players to do the same is, if you ask me, unacceptable. LotRO isn't a representation of Real Life in Modern America (or any other country!), and I very much hope it isn't going to be taking that direction...?!

We Europeans didn't choose to be merged with the US player-base, and expecting us to adopt American traditions as a result is, frankly, as unreasonable and unacceptable as it would be to force European traditions upon American players. As I've said, I believe that *no* nation's specific traditions should be represented in a game aiming to cater for a *global* player-base.

Thanksgiving is a pretty big deal for most Americans. It's heavily engrained in the culture. Is it really that hard to believe that American developers, heading out on an American holiday, might leave some little treat to coincide with the holiday?

Culturally ingrained...? Does this mean that we Brits will get to celebrate the Fourth of July, too? Think about it...!

Conversely, how about bringing in a "D-Day celebration" for us? That was - and still is, in the minds of most Brits - a "pretty big deal", heavily ingrained in *our* culture - and yet it is even less appropriate, considering the feelings of the *global* player-base. I would, of course, *not* support any such thing - with regard to *any* single-nation festival or celebration. That way trouble lies, for sure.

All in all, no matter that I'm sure it's fun for Americans to enjoy Thanksgiving festivities, trying to incorporate specifically national celebrations (as opposed to the global custom of celebrating the Four Seasons) is not only inappropriate as regards the canon of LotR Lore, but risks pleasing certain sectors of the player-base at the cost of distressing (or at best excluding) other sectors.

And, as I've said, simply being an American company doesn't mean Turbine should promote American-only holidays. The best result this will achieve from its (large) non-American player-base is indifference: the worst will be actual offence, brought about by the impression that Turbine thinks more of, and caters more to, its American players than those from different nations.

A gaming company with a global player-base needs to keep *ALL* of its players in mind, not just some of them, no matter how much they *themselves* may want to celebrate their own specific national holidays.

Unprecedented it may be. But then, the Anniversary celebration, with steeds and cosmetics and maps? That was unprecedented.

Celebrating the fourth anniversary of the *game* - which is not specific to any country at all, and risks offending (or, indeed, favouring) no one nationality over any other - will obviously, by its nature, be unprecedented. A game can't have more than one fourth anniversary. For all I know, Turbine will now hold repeating annual Anniversary celebrations: if they do, as I say, they will represent the *game* being celebrated, which is something in which *all* players can share, not any "nation-specific" event or festival.

Frostbluff was unprecedented. The Haunted Burrow was unprecedented.

True, but not comparable: they are not new Festivals in themselves, but are both just new content added to the existing Quarterly Festivals, with no existence outside those Festivals. As such, they *aren't* unprecedented, since new Festival content of various kinds is occasionally added - and, indeed, I'm all in favour of them: if the Quarterly Festivals aren't made consistently more interesting, with new "events" and other content being added every once in a while, the Festivals will become predictable, dull and stale.

Of course Turbine should add new content to existing Festivals. They just shouldn't add *new Festivals*, if you ask me (or "resurrect" existing ones which have actually passed!), and particularly should not add celebrations which mean nothing to a lot of their players.

In my view, the existing four Quarterly Festivals are quite enough: their global subject matter makes them wholly appropriate for all players; their duration (12 weeks total per year) is enough to keep them feeling "special"; adding new content occasionally (such as your examples) keeps them "fresh"; and nobody is expected to enjoy celebrations which, although great fun for those who actually do celebrate them because of their nationality, mean nothing to a great many players from other nations - and which are also, from the Lore standpoint, non-canonical, for those of us who care about such things.

I hope these explanations help to clear things up a bit...?

As time goes on, things are added, and each year new decisions made, new precedents set. Why must we be so suspicious of such things?

Nobody "must" be suspicious: each to his own, of course. Just call me a cynic and you'll have it about right!

However, I may I just cite the following as (partial) evidence for the reason(s) for my cynicism...

SWTOR open beta commences today and runs through the weekend. Turbine are fighting back with the return of fall festival and 50% discount on ROI for the 25th Nov only.

Turbine are, indeed, timing their (previously never offered - and, as I've outlined, relevant only to Americans anyway) "Thanksgiving celebration" - and, more significantly if you ask me, their 50%* RoI discount - at what can at best be called a strangely coincidental point in time, surely? When did you last see *anything* being offered by Turbine at a *50%* discount*, in the Store or anywhere else...? 20%-off in-Store sales are common, yes, but 50%? (Or 30%, as the case may be: see * note below.) And on such a valuable article, too...? All I can say is: hmm.

(* ETA: The Game Launcher actually states "30% Off", not 50%)

Sudden generosity for no reason isn't a common feature in a business which - in every other way - takes all the chances it can to extract money from its player-base (Relic Removal Scrolls, anyone...?!).

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[Anyelir]

I dont come to teh forums and whine about things that others enjoy, just because i find them unnapeasing.

a minority is just that a minority, complaining louder doesen't make you any more of a majority!

Even if some people may not understand why we spoil-funs don't want to be emoted, I don't think any of the pranksters have the right to deny us voicing our displeasure. Even if nothing will change, we are still entitled to express our opinion - and preferably without being bullied about how old and boring and grumpy we are.

I still don't see how an opt-out option on festival emotes would make the festivals less fun for the pranksters (unless I assume that every prankster has a somewhat mean streak within them), but I think it is quite obvious how it would make the festivals more fun for the spoil-funs. Personally, I will not visit my house in the Shire AT ALL this weekend because I don't want to get the living daylights emoted out of me again already. Julfest would have been more than early enough for that in my opinion...

[Demelza]

NB : For those who prefer to avoid long posts: This post is NOT as long as it looks (it has many quotes) but is still fairly long.

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A separate reply for separate themes entirely: forced Emotes, and whether or not complaining actually works.

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@Anyelir:

Even if some people may not understand why we spoil-funs don't want to be emoted, I don't think any of the pranksters have the right to deny us voicing our displeasure. Even if nothing will change, we are still entitled to express our opinion

Indeed: if wishing to be left to enjoy myself as I please (no matter how I am choosing to spend my *paid-for* in-game time, even if it *IS* just standing at a Mailbox) without being *FORCED* to fall over/cower/vomit/see bizarre colours every few minutes - or, in fact, even once, in my view - qualifies me to be called a "killjoy" (British term for "spoil-fun"), then please *DO* call me a killjoy, and proud of it, too! I (pay to) play this game in order to enjoy myself doing what I choose to do, not what another player chooses for me.

And we are *all* entitled to express our opinions about any aspect of the game. As for nothing happening as a result of players complaining (or, indeed, giving praise): please see below (towards end of post).

I still don't see how an opt-out option on festival emotes would make the festivals less fun for the pranksters (unless I assume that every prankster has a somewhat mean streak within them)

QFT. There really can be no argument against this. (Apart, of course, from the tired old excuse we always hear, typically based upon speculative assumptions in the absence of any factual knowledge of how Turbine's [proprietary] software is actually written - i.e. "But Turbine will *definitely* have to cease work on ALL OTHER PROJECTS and spend AT LEAST 1,000 years re-coding the ENTIRE GAME from the ground up in order to add this incredibly hard-to-implement feature!"... etc.)

Personally, I will not visit my house in the Shire AT ALL this weekend because I don't want to get the living daylights emoted out of me again already.

Nobody should have to alter the way in which they choose to play the game - especially to *this* extent - in order to avoid unwanted behaviour by other players which *actively interferes* with their enjoyment of the game. We can set tiresome chat spammers on Ignore; so how do we stop being annoyed - as we are entitled to be - by tiresome users of forced Emotes...?

Julfest would have been more than early enough for that in my opinion...

"Never" would be early enough for me, I must say - although, now that forced Emotes can be acquired as permanent Skills, they are increasingly likely to appear at any time of the year, or in any place: hence, I would argue, even *more* of a need to be able to "opt out" of being affected by them.

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@Fulksayyan:

Your audacious to think that it only happens to you, or your the only ones that get annoyed by it, What it doesent happen to me? [...] I dont complain, hell i just keep moving, or mount the hell up.

That's entirely your prerogative. If you choose to deal with annoying behaviour by other players by (silently, as far as Turbine is concerned) taking evasive action instead of complaining, Turbine will obviously not count you amongst the players who object to the use of the annoying behaviour in question. I'm glad you have found a solution which pleases *you*, but if we're talking "audacity", well... it seems, to me, rather more "audacious" to assume that what "fixes" a problem for you personally should, by extension, automatically be suitable for everyone. Different strokes for different folks.

And I don't think anyone in this thread is claiming to be "the only one" either experiencing, or being annoyed by, forced Emotes.

i cant go anywhere without it happening all the time, even when there isnt a festival, and the ones that completed teh deed, well there the first to show it off during teh middle of a kin meeting

You may not find this a problem: that is your choice and your right. However, for me, this just lends even more weight to my argument (above) that - especially now that the Emotes can become permanent Skills - the ability to "opt out" of being at the receiving end of them is very important, if the enjoyment of *ALL* players - not just those who like forced Emotes - is to be preserved.

I dont come to teh forums and whine about things that others enjoy, just because i find them unnapeasing.

In which case, of course, Turbine will never learn of your dislike of certain in-game features. I wouldn't say that this is a very efficient way of providing feedback to the devs - after all, if we never complain about features we don't like, or praise features we do like, how are they meant to work out what we prefer, and therefore which features to add or remove? - but each to his own opinion, of course.

a minority is just that a minority, complaining louder doesen't make you any more of a majority!

... And remaining quiet doesn't mean you *ARE* in a minority, either. This is a very common mistake, and accounts for the very existence of the cliché "the silent majority": it is part of human nature, encouraged by the social mores of Western society, to "put up with" annoyances, rather than to be seen to be complaining. Just because the majority do not complain about something does *NOT* automatically mean they like it. Quite often, the reverse is true, but nobody likes to be seen as a "whinger".

I believe that this is true of forced Emotes, based upon what I have heard from a great many friends and acquaintances in-game: a few love them, a few hate them with a vengeance, but the majority - silently - simply dislike them, but not enough to bother to post on the Forums. I myself dislike these Emotes: I may not shout about it on the Forums - although I did, in a thread on the topic, take the trouble - once only - to write a lengthy, constructive argument supporting the option of an "opt-out" ability being provided for those of us who don't appreciate forced Emotes being used on us - but that doesn't mean that I'm not an opponent of forced Emotes. I am simply in what appears, to me, to be a silent majority, not minority, on this issue.

Assuming that just because players aren't shouting on Forums means they are automatically "in a minority" simply isn't valid: as I say, I keep generally quiet about this on the Forums, but instead I approach the problem in a more direct, different way - in-game. Firstly, I wear an AFK flag stating: "I am AFK but prefer not to be the target of Emotes. Thank you." - which seems to work well. However, if someone *still* uses a forced Emote on me, I then send them a polite /tell asking them kindly not to do it again. If they do, I consider that two direct requests not to use Emotes on me counts as sufficient advance "warning", so I report them for harassment. I retain the chat log as evidence. We "silent minority" (or, in this case, more likely "majority") types are less likely to shout on Forums than to take more constructive in-game action - which is far more likely to generate a real result.

complain louder, maby turbine will listen.......

I know you mean this sarcastically, but you are, in my view, probably right. If enough people complain about something, at the very least, feedback will be generated and passed on to the devs: no, it's not a guarantee that the perceived "problem" will be altered in any way, but the one sure way *NOT* to get one's opinion heard is, of course, to say nothing at all.

Likewise:

Good luck, Keep complaining and hopefully peopel on your server will do it more

They're welcome to do so - just as I am welcome, as I say above, to report them for harassment if, after being asked politely to stop using Emotes on me, they choose to continue to do so. Works for me.

Or better yet, Maby you should just complain more, Because doing so gets soo much done around here!

Maybe it does. This springs to mind, from the Update 5 Bullroarer (B1) Release Notes:

The two hostile mobs in Lower Barnavon that were put there due to overwhelming player feedback have been removed due to overwhelming player feedback.

... It would seem that "overwhelming player feedback" did, in at least this one case, cause the devs both to add something to the game, then to remove it again. Perhaps complaining - another term for one kind of "feedback", after all - isn't *quite* as fruitless as popular Forum opinion deems it to be? I can't say. But I can read the above quote, and wonder where else this "feedback" was coming from: maybe the Alpha/Beta test servers only, but I somehow doubt it. Always open to correction, of course, if I'm wrong!

And finally:

Maby one day we will be able to go one festival without listening to you and the small group taht does complain. Just because you get louder, doesent make your point any more valid. Stop playing during festivals, Seems to me like you have that fancy lifetime membership, probably means you don't have to play every day!

That's one point of view. However, on the other hand...

• Maybe one day I will be able to enjoy the many *pleasant* aspects of the Festivals - for which I pay - without being forced to faint/cough/vomit/cower at the whim of other players...?
  
  
• Why should people who *don't* like forced Emotes actually be obliged to *stop playing* during Festivals (and at other times, too, presumably, considering that the Emotes are becoming permanent Skills?) in order to avoid their gaming being interrupted by actions taken by others? Are you serious...?! Surely not?
  
  
• Why does *anyone* "have to play every day"...? This is a game, not a job, surely? I actually have three of those "fancy" Lifetime Memberships*, as well as a fourth paid VIP Account (all of which, incidentally, *entitle* me to play every day, Festival times included!), and, yes, I do expect, in return for my money (well over £1,000 invested in the game so far) the ability to play as I please, not as another player pleases.

(* Those Lifetime Subs weren't *FREE*, you know. At the time, they cost the equivalent of 20 months - nearly two years - of monthly-paid gaming time, back in the days before F2P. A fair investment deserves, I believe, a fair return - in the form of being able to play how I choose, which includes, in my case, being able not to take in-game actions I personally do not choose or want to take.)

Live and let live. And "let live" doesn't really mean, in my book, "let live, but persistently interrupt with invasive forced Emotes".

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[Fulksayyan]

Its teh same argument presented every festival, and its teh same attitude taken, if we dont tell them tehyw ill never know....

There is a difference between telling them, and searching out every post about teh festivals and spamming complaints about teh emotes over and over


we heard you teh first 2 billion times, and unfortunatly teh ones who troll you with there emotes are just searching you out more with a vengance,

while you qq there cd timer is almost up!

The more you protest how much you hate something, the more people mob you for calling them out on there inability to cope with teh little things.

xD

You are virtually creating your own dispare.!

Have fun!

[Anyelir]

There is a difference between telling them, and searching out every post about teh festivals and spamming complaints about teh emotes over and over

Believe me, I would have left the topic alone after my first post to express my opinion on it if the pranksters (and some others like you) had not insisted on rubbing even more salt into the wounds. We spoil-funs are entitled to dislike the festival emotes and we are entitle to tell people about our dislike. The pranksters are entitled to enjoy the very same emotes and to tell the rest of the community that they don't share the spoil-funs' opinion.

BUT neither pranksters nor anyone else is entitled to tell any spoil-fun that they're stupid and should at least temporarily stop playing the game or better even begin to enjoy the emotes just like the pranksters do. Discussing the whole sorry topic for the umpteenth time is one thing, the way in which many pranksters tend to get personal and deride the spoil-funs for their opinion is a completely different matter.

During the original fall-festival this year, I felt like pranksters were actively seeking out people who were crafting or pursuing other activities that did not allow for avoiding the emotes and that is just so annoying. I don't see why I should keep quiet about something so unneccessarily irksome if the pranksters on the other hand claim the right for themselves to ignore, bully and positively upset everyone the see fit to (and not only spoil-funs like me).

Please note also that in general I am not a fan of putting people into categories like "pranksters" and "spoil-funs". It's the obvious inability of a portion of the community to deal with this whole discussion in a constructive way that has made me resort to those terms so I don't waste everybody's time with using less dinstiction-creating but neccessarily longer terms in my posts.

[Lyzau]

Bravo Anyelir for such a well written post. I wholehartedly agree with your position as I feel the same way.

In addition I would like to suggest to the devs to add two new ingame titles: "prankster" and "spoil-fun".
At least it would give me something to show for undergoing all those unwanted emotes.

[Demelza]

Its teh same argument presented every festival, and its teh same attitude taken, if we dont tell them tehyw ill never know....

Precisely: an argument that is (a) valid and (b) commonly held is likely to be frequently expressed. You didn't really expect the opinion(s) to *change* this time round, did you...?

And yes: the more (polite) voices added to the "Please let us opt out of forced Emotes" argument, the more chance that the argument *may* gain the ear of the only audience which actually matters - i.e. Turbine themselves.

There is a difference between telling them, and searching out every post about teh festivals and spamming complaints about teh emotes over and over

Obviously. Which is why you won't be seeing me - or most of the "opt-out" supporters - doing just that. Life's too short!

we heard you teh first 2 billion times

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but you'll have heard me personally speaking up on this in (including this thread) precisely two threads. No need for more, since one of my replies in the earlier thread comprised, as I mentioned, a constructive argument as to why an opt-out would be useful to some players, with examples and debate on both sides of the argument included. Nothing to add to that, really: Turbine don't need to read a long and detailed argument from one player on any single topic more than once, in my opinion.

and unfortunatly teh ones who troll you with there emotes are just searching you out more with a vengance

In my experience, this seems not to be the case: I think most players are more humane than this, and don't actively *want* to cause annoyance. So far, even my simple "Please don't Emote me" AFK Flag seems to fend off about 90% of forced Emotes (most players appear to be very considerate, happily), and even those few who ignore it tend to respond positively, and leave me alone, usually also offering an apology, when I send them a polite /tell asking them to desist.

while you qq there cd timer is almost up!

I find that - fortunately - this really isn't relevant to me, because, in the *very* few cases where I have been obliged, after my polite requests to be left alone have been repeatedly ignored by the odd (very rare) inconsiderate player who continued to spam Emotes, reporting them for harassment seemed to work very well. I can't presume to say it works for anyone else, but so far nobody has persisted in Emoting me after I've raised such a report. Therefore, what they do when their CD timer expires isn't really my concern...!

Have fun!

Thank you, and I do - or else I would hardly still be here, and still handing over (large) sums to Turbine in order to support, and continue to play, the game I love. The Festivals are one of my favourite in-game features, but the forced Emotes aren't. Hence my attempt(s) - all two of them! - to discuss the topic on the Forum, and my continuing support for those who would prefer the optional ability to "opt out" of being the target of these Emotes - especially, as I've said, now that they are becoming permanent Skills.

I do hope this thread stays civil, or else we all know where it ends: locked. Which helps none of us, really!

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[Demelza]

As time goes on, things are added, and each year new decisions made, new precedents set. Why must we be so suspicious of such things?

Sorry to reply twice to the same response, but I actually didn't realise, until just now, exactly *how many* incentives Turbine are offering to players - with *ALL* of them coincidentally running at the same time: that is, from now until the end of this weekend only! It's a very impressive list, to say the least.

I've just - for the first time - visited the webpage which lists *all* of the unprecedented/unique and/or very rare events which have, extraordinarily, *ALL* been scheduled to occur *simultaneously* during precisely the time when A.N.Other MMO is holding its Beta-test weekend. Incidentally, I actually don't care, and won't be participating in that Beta-test, since I have no interest in *ANY* MMO except LotRO: I play in order to enjoy the game's faithful rendering of Tolkien's Middle-Earth and other MMOs don't interest me.

However, marketing tactics disguised as "gestures of goodwill" and/or "Thanksgiving celebrations" should, in my view, be seen for what they are, hence my posts on the subject in this thread. And so:

Copied and pasted from the Forum post linked in the Game Launcher at the moment: (URL below)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...Bonus-Weekend!

• The Harvest Festival Is Back, Now through November 28th!
• 50% Off Isengard*. 11/25/2011. 1-Day Only! (ETA: The Game Launcher actually states "30% Off")
• Get Double XP on All Monster Kills! Now through November 28th!
• Double Bonus Points on the Largest Point Bundle! Now Through November 28th
• The Fashion Maven will be randomly awarding her special titles all weekend long across all worlds. Are you lucky enough to earn the title, “The Fashionable” or will you earn the Maven’s disapproval and be labeled “The Unfashionable”?

... Check out the "end date" for these (simultaneous) offers and events: interesting. The Forum message was posted on 23rd November - enough time for those players who haven't already done so to purchase the RoI Expansion, install it and get started on it, with those who *have* already purchased RoI being given various other incentives - about as many as the game offers, short of handing out free LIs to every player! - to be around in-game during *one* particular weekend. Yes, it coincides with Thanksgiving. But there have been four other Thanksgiving weekends during the past four years - with all of them going unmarked by LotRO (which, in my view, they should, as I have already argued more than enough times!).

Are we *really* meant to believe that all of these generous incentives to spend time in LotRO during the coming weekend are motivated by *nothing* but happy holiday spirit (relating to a holiday which, as mentioned, many players don't even observe) and/or an inexplicable excess of simple goodwill towards all players...?

I wish I could believe it. Maybe if it happens again, when no other gaming house is doing anything interesting, I'll be convinced...?!

Best,

Demelza of Lórien
Friend of the Wild and Lady of Streams

[whheydt]

a minority is just that a minority, complaining louder doesen't make you any more of a majority!

I wouldn't be too sure of that, if I were you. It worked for the Bolsheviks.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

[Bel-Astarte]

Now THAT is my kinda pie! NomNomNom

[Glumposneak]

So what are the weekend festivities all about? What are we celebrating?
Or is it just in retaliation to BW running a massive beta/stress test for SWTOR the same weekend?
I will be too busy crashing a test server to care about a festival I have already done to death.

My thoughts (and actions) too.