ICYMI, give your offiical class feedback to Sapience

[Thorcar]

If you haven't seen it, Sapience is soliciting class feedback under the Official Discussion Thread

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...21#post6016021

Riders of Rohan will bring with it a level cap increase. Raising the level cap gives us an opportunity to rebalance classes, add new skills, and adjust old ones that might not be as useful as they should be. To help with this process we’d like each of you to answer the following questions about your class.

Please keep the following in mind:

• This is not a discussion thread, please simply answer the questions.
• This is not the place to editorialize on other classes or overall combat/gameplay mechanics.
• Please comment only on the classes you play actively. Ideally only on those classes you have at or near cap as this is where most of the changes will be made.
• Please keep in mind that you are offering suggestions. Your feedback here is important, but it is not the only deciding factor on our design decisions.

Class:

Name 3 things about your class you feel could be improved.
1
2
3

What skills do you feel are underpowered or of little value to your class? Please limit your answer to 3. Briefly explain why you feel this way.
1
2
3

What skills do you think could be added to your class to help you better perform your role in groups or improve your solo performance? Please limit your answer to 3 skills and explain why you feel this way. Also include how you see the skill being used (solo or group play).
1
2
3

If you were limited to only one of your nine suggestions above , which single suggestion do you feel is most important for your class?

[Gylve]

Yes, please post in that thread! I haven't checked it in a while but the first 14-15 pages were full of champs whining about not having shields and saying that CB and CBR are useless. Very sad.

[bibby042]

Yes, please post in that thread! I haven't checked it in a while but the first 14-15 pages were full of champs whining about not having shields and saying that CB and CBR are useless. Very sad.

I need to go take a cold shower now to calm down. The rules of the thread prevent me from commenting on other champion posts and there are so many asking for nerfs or removal of Glory or CB that I feel like I am about to Hulk out and tear the forums apart. Rargh!

That said, there are some good comments there about Fight On! and options for increased power return in Ardour/Glory that wouldn't hurt. I'm going to chalk the rest of the comments up to Wargs in disguise.

[Fralin]

I agree. CB and CBR are far from useless, but as such they are slightly underwhelming as well. I would say skills for champs are a less problem than relics for LIs is, a shame the thread is about skills

[Gylve]

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see CB changed just a little. The extra ICPR is just too high; I can go from near empty to full using it with Controlled Fury spamming every skill like crazy and totally ignore second wind in the meantime. Then, I sit there at max power not really being able to burn up all that extra ICPR for a little while. So, I'd like to see the ICPR come down a little and either the duration of the skill extended or, ideally, the cooldown lowered some. Less ICPR for more total combat time is better, IMO, and having the extra damage and attack speed for a higher percent of fighting time also would be awesome.

[DuneBug]

Name 3 things about your class you feel could be improved.
1 - rising ire should be raid wide
2 - ebbing ire should be raid wide
3 - rising ire should definitely be raid wide.
4 - invincible's tactical defense should go up.


champs are in a pretty good spot right now, hard to complain.

[Sapience]

Thanks for posting this to draw attention to the thread, but please put all of your feedback in the official thread. That's where we're going to look.

[Fralin]

Thanks for posting this to draw attention to the thread, but please put all of your feedback in the official thread. That's where we're going to look.

The feedback's already there. What i'm wondering though is if you're at some point in the future will make a similar post but not about the specific classes but rather about the game as a whole.

[Thorcar]

Thanks for posting this to draw attention to the thread, but please put all of your feedback in the official thread. That's where we're going to look.

This thread is just where we go to discuss other's feedback so we don't break your thread rules

[Sapience]

The feedback's already there. What i'm wondering though is if you're at some point in the future will make a similar post but not about the specific classes but rather about the game as a whole.

Exceedingly borad topics like that are very hard to gather feedback on in this type of setting. Taking systems one at a time might be workable (or even better; elements of a system), but the game as a whole would be a very broad topic with what I suspect would be equally broad (and thus hard to act on) replies.

[Thorcar]

I agree. CB and CBR are far from useless, but as such they are slightly underwhelming as well. I would say skills for champs are a less problem than relics for LIs is, a shame the thread is about skills

I think the first section of Sapience's questions was an ok place to talk about legacies at least. Combat only effect removal is an obvious one that needs to go as we've discussed in previous threads. Relics are a bit harder to work in since they apply to every class.

[Kantaryo]

I think IMHO as a wannabe Champion that at least at my level we need some better defensive skills. Fighting one on one against mobs your level is fine but everytime I fight an elite it is like pew-pew-pew me dead. I do a lot of damage but when the elite is 14K and I am barely 5K there is no way to win.

For example yesterday I ran a solo skirmish on T-2 any elite 9K and lower I managed to defeat, anything 10K and above, me dead every single time.

[Disperate]

I think IMHO as a wannabe Champion that at least at my level we need some better defensive skills. Fighting one on one against mobs your level is fine but everytime I fight an elite it is like pew-pew-pew me dead. I do a lot of damage but when the elite is 14K and I am barely 5K there is no way to win.

For example yesterday I ran a solo skirmish on T-2 any elite 9K and lower I managed to defeat, anything 10K and above, me dead every single time.

Mate, i really don't want to sound insulting, but are you sure you are doing it right?
I would have thought that champ, of all classes, would be able to handle the situation you describe - what with your bubbles and self-heals, and nice DPS.
I've also been reading in the champ forum about champs that have soloed some pretty impressive stuff.
You didn't say what lv you are or how long you have played champ, but by all accounts that i've heard it is now a very strong class. So if i were you i would stick with it, and once you learn it properly you might be surprised what is it capable of.

[Kantaryo]

All self heals and bubbles may exist at lev 75, but at level 56 is very limited the arsenal of heals and bubles you have against elite mobs. The main problems is the amount of damage you receive at the 50's level, your heals and bubles cannot match the incoming damage dish by elite mobs (ELITE) is the main issue.

[Wilkens]

All self heals and bubbles may exist at lev 75, but at level 56 is very limited the arsenal of heals and bubles you have against elite mobs. The main problems is the amount of damage you receive at the 50's level, your heals and bubles cannot match the incoming damage dish by elite mobs (ELITE) is the main issue.

At 56 you've already got Bracing Attack, Hedge, Sudden Defense, Dire Need, and Adamant (Invincible with legendary). Minus True Heroics as a bubble and the improved versions of Hedge and Dire Need you really already have everything a tanking/defensive champion needs.

Moreover in the 50s you are still looking at old school stat gear which means quality armor will have lots of AGI and VIT on it to help keep you health and resistances (as well as Parry) higher relative to your level. Basically against Elites at 56 if you have good gear you shouldn't have any issue with taking them on because you really aren't going to get any more skills for defensive purposes as you go forward (the one additional class trait at 57 may help though).

[Witalik]

All self heals and bubbles may exist at lev 75, but at level 56 is very limited the arsenal of heals and bubles you have against elite mobs. The main problems is the amount of damage you receive at the 50's level, your heals and bubles cannot match the incoming damage dish by elite mobs (ELITE) is the main issue.

Get more might, and use a legendary weapon can help alot !

[Luder85]

HI,
L56 champ here, reading this thread makes me wonder if I should play a bit more with the other stances in skimishes (and maybe a 2h) rather than just run about in fervour and shing-shing?

As you can guess with the above I haven't really played about with the other stances and 2h, what is the best way to approach this to get a feel for what I can do and work how when and how to use them?

thanks

[Kantaryo]

That is the main problem, there is NOT GEAR at least that you can craft or for marks, the only good gear for level 57 comes from doing time and time and time again the stupid raids that no one wants to do, so basically we are in a WoW type of situation.

[Wilkens]

That is the main problem, there is NOT GEAR at least that you can craft or for marks, the only good gear for level 57 comes from doing time and time and time again the stupid raids that no one wants to do, so basically we are in a WoW type of situation.

You mean the 6-mans like GS? I've never seen a shortage of folks running that for moria medallions. Aside from that set you've also got the L58 crit crafted gear coming up in one level and either set should be more than sufficient to enable you to take on a single elite (assuming its on or under level).

[Drakkarmyst]

Class: Champion

Name 3 things about your class you feel could be improved.
1 CBR - give it back!
2 Hamstring needs to be 40% to match BA's and other's Slowing skill's.
3 Champion's Challenge should provide a slow, maybe 3 to 5 secs. We use this to get them out of their March, etc. But hate to waste sprint's timer just catch them at a distance to actually engage.

What skills do you feel are underpowered or of little value to your class? Please limit your answer to 3. Briefly explain why you feel this way.
1 CBR - Was a great skill to use in the Moor's, now it's almost useless. Warg pack chain-stun lockdown is a joke. Wargs should still fear us somewhat in a pack, especially now with the new upcoming changes to them.
2 Our bleeds should be able to knock stealthed creatures (wargs) out of stealth.
3 Fight On should add Evade buff to the mix.

What skills do you think could be added to your class to help you better perform your role in groups or improve your solo performance? Please limit your answer to 3 skills and explain why you feel this way. Also include how you see the skill being used (solo or group play).
1 Dual-Wield should increase Parry/Evade rates. We are masters at dual Weilding, We should be able to parry and evade attack's more with two weapons than a 2-hander. 2-hand gets some higher dps, Dual should be able to parry and evade attack's more.
2 Again Champion's Challenge providing a 3-5 sec slow.
3 Let-It-Fly should add a dot, (maybe on crit) and/or -ranged distance to target.

If you were limited to only one of your nine suggestions above , which single suggestion do you feel is most important for your class?
Champion's Challenge. It should be a challenge to fight, not just a doorbell to let them know I'm coming and they run away. Altho it is usefull for putting them in combat, we should have a brief window to catch up to them as well, not just pop sprint to do so.

Note:
Weaver's Climbing tree's is not a good idea AND acid damage, if implemented is fine as long as there are new food/pots etc. to go along with it like diesese, wound, poison, Fear. Better yet, there should be no acid dmg in the Moor's.

[dennis123]

I think IMHO as a wannabe Champion that at least at my level we need some better defensive skills. Fighting one on one against mobs your level is fine but everytime I fight an elite it is like pew-pew-pew me dead. I do a lot of damage but when the elite is 14K and I am barely 5K there is no way to win.

For example yesterday I ran a solo skirmish on T-2 any elite 9K and lower I managed to defeat, anything 10K and above, me dead every single time.

You're doing something wrong. I'm 62 atm and pretty much never leave fervour stance. Any elite mobs in my level range are cake including 2/3 packs (use your cooldowns). Soloing T2/T3 skirms are pretty easy (icy crev is a pita though). Majority of Elite Master mobs I've solo'ed through use of creative kiting ie. hamstring/bow until cooldowns pop back up or if they are easier then straight up tank which means I almost never skip quests in whatever zone I'm in.

Make sure your gear is top of the line for each level tier (which includes crafted is sellsword/sentinel/officers are all L50-60 range and are better than 90% of drops), use potions/buff religiously and since getting LIs I make sure my sudden defense is always at minimum CD of 2 minutes but if I can I'll get it down as close to 1 minute as possible.


My only complaint is there are too many skills and some seem completely worthless to me currently or have unnecessarily long cool downs. Otherwise champs are pretty beastly and I can't wait to hit 75 and start roughin up some solo challenges.

[mrfigglesworth]

Class: Champion

Name 3 things about your class you feel could be improved.
1 CBR - give it back!
2 Hamstring needs to be 40% to match BA's and other's Slowing skill's.
3 Champion's Challenge should provide a slow, maybe 3 to 5 secs. We use this to get them out of their March, etc. But hate to waste sprint's timer just catch them at a distance to actually engage.

1. CBR is not broken. I admit in the moors it's tough to implement solo, but it is far from useless.
2. i am ok with hamstring increasing slow, however we usually have a longer duration and ours is spammy so it has its advantages.
3. whaaa??? Champs challenge might need some pvp use, but it doesn't make sense that it should slow something. It should make somethign want to fight us.

What skills do you feel are underpowered or of little value to your class? Please limit your answer to 3. Briefly explain why you feel this way.
1 CBR - Was a great skill to use in the Moor's, now it's almost useless. Warg pack chain-stun lockdown is a joke. Wargs should still fear us somewhat in a pack, especially now with the new upcoming changes to them.
2 Our bleeds should be able to knock stealthed creatures (wargs) out of stealth.
3 Fight On should add Evade buff to the mix.

1. youre a bit biased moors aren't ya?
2. you really hate wargs
3. Maybe buff fight on, but honestly fight on is quite effective in the moors. I don't see why you're complaining about this one since it's practically moors exclusive.

What skills do you think could be added to your class to help you better perform your role in groups or improve your solo performance? Please limit your answer to 3 skills and explain why you feel this way. Also include how you see the skill being used (solo or group play).
1 Dual-Wield should increase Parry/Evade rates. We are masters at dual Weilding, We should be able to parry and evade attack's more with two weapons than a 2-hander. 2-hand gets some higher dps, Dual should be able to parry and evade attack's more.
2 Again Champion's Challenge providing a 3-5 sec slow.
3 Let-It-Fly should add a dot, (maybe on crit) and/or -ranged distance to target.

1. makes sense lorewise, but it would imbalance the 2h vs dw. it is a fallacy that 2 hander gets higher dps. There is no proof of this.
2. If anything, champs challenge should force a target to select us for 5 seconds, not slow them.
3. A bit nitpicky, but i guess the first one makes sense to me.

If you were limited to only one of your nine suggestions above , which single suggestion do you feel is most important for your class?
Champion's Challenge. It should be a challenge to fight, not just a doorbell to let them know I'm coming and they run away. Altho it is usefull for putting them in combat, we should have a brief window to catch up to them as well, not just pop sprint to do so.

just dont use it? then they still won't know you're coming.

Note:

Weaver's Climbing tree's is not a good idea AND acid damage, if implemented is fine as long as there are new food/pots etc. to go along with it like diesese, wound, poison, Fear. Better yet, there should be no acid dmg in the Moor's.

I thought acid damage was what weavers were known for

[VentoPT]

Champions challenge needs buff in aggroing. It is resisted to much or unable to get it from the tank. If it is a temporary agrroing it should be stronger to make sure the target really comes to us.

Also ICPR needs to be looked into. It really bugs me that all stances of a champ set an big increase iCPR which for me simply means that the class is by default nerfed on it. Doesn't really make sense.

[Thorcar]

Champions challenge needs buff in aggroing. It is resisted to much or unable to get it from the tank. If it is a temporary agrroing it should be stronger to make sure the target really comes to us.

Also ICPR needs to be looked into. It really bugs me that all stances of a champ set an big increase iCPR which for me simply means that the class is by default nerfed on it. Doesn't really make sense.

In my post, I recommended two champ challenges. One would be an aoe taunt when we are main tanking. The other would be a single target like our current challenge but tweak it to add a wipe of previous aggro. This would allow us to more effectively OT in situations like the Saruman fight when you want to peel one off the main tank.

[MaroonDragoon]

That suggestions thread makes me hate all of my fellow champions.