Efforts towards fixing the lag

[hucklebarry]

I think with the stable horses there are two different, and probably unrelated, problems. Some stable horses may have new pathing issues. It has happened before with patches...horses (or goats) get caught on a ledge or misjudge the cliff...and they'll do it every time until their path is fixed.

But others are experiencing the stable horses freezing and then losing connection to the servers -- I think that's part of the lag issues.

Most likely, I'm seeing both on a regular basis. (but neither are 100% consistant, which makes me think it might not be a pathing issue). hehe, I do remember my stable routed pony riding off cliffs in Moria

[Rapunzel666]

despite no longer being an active eve online player, I like the effort they put in fighting the lag (having only 'one' server world, its imperative for the actual physical server being able to cope with 1600 players fighting each other, plus drones droning about).

For example this: time dilation.
this would eliminate all lag in a raid (after all, its only 12 players, so where exactly is the problem?), by simply slowing down the in game time, allowing the server to cope with the amount of requests it gets.

http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...a=blog&bid=900
http://community.eveonline.com/devbl...blog&nbid=2437

yes, I know game engines are different etc, but its still a matter of how many resources a company is willing to invest to keep their game playable..

[aad0italian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGgSqs5WN5M

Skip to 4:05. That shows EXACTLY what happens.

[bastiat1]

Absence of evidence that Turbine is actively closing in on a fix is not evidence of absence of that fix. I know everyone is getting frustrated, but hold tight. I'm sure it will be all fixed tomorrow.

p.s. Thanks for the additional Acid vid. Several of us have offered to bring Devs along in weekly raids to directly observe the problems. Since not one single Turbine employee has ever experienced any of this rampant lag it would seem important for them to see what is actually going on. In the absence of their willingness to observe the raids I hope the video is a helpful guide.

p.p.s. It might make sense for Turbine to setup a side business building gaming rigs since their machines seem particularly immune to these problems.

[Eriandor]

Full reinstall of client later, running in clean boot mode, all old files deleted or renamed, no plugins, no skins, virus scanner off...

Still doing the stop/hitch/slide forward every step I take in the areas around crafting facilities.
Still getting skills lagging / failing to fire, even when solo.
Still getting invald target when first engaging mobs regularly.
Still having mobs and I run past each other and then rubberbanding when moving into combat.
Etc, etc.

So, now having completed the full checklist of things we were asked to try earlier in the thread, anything else you want me to try Turbine peoples?

Will note that quite a few people in various places are saying about load times when opening vaults / supplier /vendor windows and saying this is getting slower - running lotro off a SSD here, and those things open in less than a blink of an eye for me whilst all the other problems continue, and have been this fast ever since I bought the SSD. Am VERY confident that my issues are not related to texture loading. On the other systems in the house running lotro off 7200 speed HDD's the delay on loading these windows can be a couple of seconds, but is clearly not the same as the other issues.

[Elderban]

The reason why some may be experiencing the lag and others not is that everyone takes a different road, if you will, to the server.

For example, I may go through Level3, as it may be one of Turbine's Tier 1 providers, to get to the server and others may be going through, say, Cogent or AT&T, to get to the server.

I had a similar problem happen on one of my servers a few years ago. My host had three Tier 1 providers, but certain people had problems accessing my sites, and come to find out that my host was having issues with Level3 which was keeping anyone that was routing through Level3 from accessing my server. However, it took many phone calls and several faxes of traceroutes to my host for them to realize this.

That being said, as I stated before, I doubt it's a end-user problem since so many people are experiencing it at the same time.

Furthermore, if it is an issue with one of their Tier 1 providers, it will probably never be seen on their server loads because it's not a server issue, so that's why Turbine may be saying that everything looks fine on their end.

[Laerien]

Sure... we will get our 75's out the new areas and go back to Bree areas to hold hands with skeletons in the barrows.

At Least you won't die like a fly

HINT: go do stuff in RoI and the great River Areas. Do the forges rep in Galtrev (its a solo thingy) where i lag/freeze everytime i get in there and engage first mob.

I do forges and defend x2 almost every day in Galtrev, and yes I've noticed in forges the small lag/delay after engage the first mob. This started before U6. Anyways, it is not a freeze that make the game unplayable, more like a hitch.

Also I've soloed some stuff, Trolls and trees in LG and the U5 instances without issues. Maybe I'm getting one 5-10 seconds freeze per week not related with my isp (because I alt+tab and check it immediately). That maybe is server sided or some point between my computer and the game server.

Why would I do that to "hunt lag?"

Well if you (and the others) are interested in solve the problem then the more aditional information the better. This is not that simple like masskick.

Some questions need to be answered to cross information:

Do the freezes: Happen in all servers, happen to everybody (in sight) in the server, happen in 2 servers at the same time, happen at peak times, random, all day, etc.

In the group crash case (Where we can see most people can play very well until the freeze): Happens only when the cave is flooded with acid, are there big latency differences between the party members, is everybody playing without plugins/hacks/3rd party software that may hammer the server code, these people experience the freezes everyday, playing solo, etc.

I know its not easy, but yelling at turbine people (not saying you are) won't help anybody, they are not mind readers.

[Depher]

To help Sapience in his "one person" assumption: if you experience lag after a complete reinstall of the game, can you please raise your hand again? My memory is different from Sapience's, I remember that more than one person said a reinstall of the game didn't help.[/QUOTE]

No a complete reinstall of my OS , game and driver update had no impact at all.

[Nuth_KM]

my guess when Mgmt (Turbine reps) say that haven't found any issues on their servers .. it because the issue lies with the client software. Ping tests show that it's not an internet latency issues.. and many of us are running "high-end gaming machines" ..so that would eliminate a hardware issue on the player's side. Again, my guess, is that some update to the client software is causing this. Whether it's a socket-layer issue .. or they are trying some sort of new messaging queue to communicate with the server(s).

[Sapience]

To help Sapience in his "one person" assumption: if you experience lag after a complete reinstall of the game, can you please raise your hand again? My memory is different from Sapience's, I remember that more than one person said a reinstall of the game didn't help.

No a complete reinstall of my OS , game and driver update had no impact at all.[/QUOTE]

To be clear, we're working with a small group of players directly. This thread has reverted back to something other than a useful feedback thread so we selected a small group and are working with them. My reference to one person was correct as it referenced this small group.

It does seem that a client issue is possible, but we have not ruled out something else going on - whether server side or elsewhere. Just because or tracking and monitoring hasn't turned up anything doesn't mean we've stopped investigating possibilities.

[Nuth_KM]

Sapience.. it may also be worth denoting the nuance between a "client issue" which some might not understand doesn't necessarily mean the customer or their pc but rather the Lotro client software that is installed on their pc.

[ColorSpecs]

It does seem that a client issue is possible,

Can it be a client issue though if an entire raid lags out at the exact same time in the exact same way? Everyone hitches, or everyone's skills lock up or everyone just stops.

Thanks for continuing to drill down on this.

[Sapience]

Sapience.. it may also be worth denoting the nuance between a "client issue" which some might not understand doesn't necessarily mean the customer or their pc but rather the Lotro client software that is installed on their pc.

Can it be a client issue though if an entire raid lags out at the exact same time in the exact same way? Everyone hitches, or everyone's skills lock up or everyone just stops.

Thanks for continuing to drill down on this.

Yes. Because as Nuth points out a client issue doesn't always mean your PC, it can mean the code of the game itself, it could also mean the data is fragmented (and not just on your drive), or that the client/server handshaking (which wouldn't show up as any kind of measurable issue on the server or network side of things) is wonky.

As I've mentioned a couple of times, lag can be a tricky thing. Knowing it's not one thing doesn't mean it's not a million others. Knowing it might be a million other things doesn't mean it might not be any of them.

We do believe we're getting closer to the root cause, if only by process of elimination of what it isn't.

[Vysion34]

Yes. Because as Nuth points out a client issue doesn't always mean your PC, it can mean the code of the game itself, it could also mean the data is fragmented (and not just on your drive), or that the client/server handshaking (which wouldn't show up as any kind of measurable issue on the server or network side of things) is wonky.

As I've mentioned a couple of times, lag can be a tricky thing. Knowing it's not one thing doesn't mean it's not a million others. Knowing it might be a million other things doesn't mean it might not be any of them.

We do believe we're getting closer to the root cause, if only by process of elimination of what it isn't.

The root cause was update 6. The problem that so many people are experiencing didn't happen until update 6 went live.

[Esgar]

No a complete reinstall of my OS , game and driver update had no impact at all.

To be clear, we're working with a small group of players directly. This thread has reverted back to something other than a useful feedback thread so we selected a small group and are working with them. My reference to one person was correct as it referenced this small group.

It does seem that a client issue is possible, but we have not ruled out something else going on - whether server side or elsewhere. Just because or tracking and monitoring hasn't turned up anything doesn't mean we've stopped investigating possibilities.

if it can be of any help i did a clean install of both OS and LOTRO from scratch some days ago and im still having lag issues.
I just imported the preferences and plugins. if there is any test you would like to suggest me, i'd be happy to try it out to help solving the problem.

me and my kinnies were not vocal on the forums about this problem but we as a whole are definately experiencing it during raids (we all play from italy with exception of 1 playing from south america).

[bambubambubambu]

The root cause was update 6. The problem that so many people are experiencing didn't happen until update 6 went live.

That's like saying I'm sick today because I had bad pie last night. The real question that needs to be answered is which pie? The chocolate pie? The cherry pie? The peach pie? The apple pie? The-well you get the idea...

/burp

[lestat86]

Sapedogg- what about non-network causes? Are you guys taking a look at code-sourced problems also?

You guys really need to do something to show you are taking the problem seriously. Saying that you are monitoring the servers doesn't really cut it. I really think that you are underestimating the depth and breadth of frustration that is building. I can see a blackout coming.

I agree with others here, that if the game developers are going to continue to hold the position that in their private play there is no problem, then they must sit in as a GM on a raid this week on each server so that they can directly observe the problems that are occuring. I don't know how you guys expect to fix the problem if you can't observe them. You need to get surgical on this mofo dogg.

I will volunteer Noldor on Arkenstone- 9 pm CT Friday, or 9:15 pm CT on Sunday as we run Orthanc. Come and check out the red-light-green-light super-challenge mode. You can even sit in our TeamSpeak if you want.

And I'll post my invitation again for someone to 'tag' along on my group's raids, the next one being this thursday, 6:00pm PDT on brandywine...just send Carthir a tell. You also can sit in our vent and hear us cry out in unison...LLLLAAAAGGGG...and watch all our toons freeze and then a few seconds later all start going again. PLEASE COME!

[Armitas]

This thread has reverted back to something other than a useful feedback thread so we selected a small group and are working with them.

In other words we are failing to be helpful here! Rather than fill this thread with a bunch of nonsense, I told you so, your doing it wrong, and hilarious pictures, though who ever put that lol cat up is awesome and amazing, lets put in some useful info. Lets make this thread helpful again.

Post a bit on your computer or your windows rating if you don't know.
Graphics =
Memory =
Processor =
Operating system =
DSL, Cable. =

Then tell your story, be 100% accurate.
"I lag when X, But not when X"
"I tried this and it didn't fix it"
"The lag started after X"
"It never lags X"

^^The faster you do that, the faster it gets fixed.

[Southpa]

When you release an "Update" that actually causes a reversion to several aspects of the game that had been fixed in the previous patch, you have strong evidence the "Update" was built with different coders using different builds of the game - or an out-of-date build at least. The premise that this would cause different chunks of code to not play well with each other seems rather obvious. It's not a network thing.

I get the lag solo. While crafting. On fast travel. On foot. In PvE raids. In the Moors (last night I lagged-out for easily a full minute on my Creep).

Folks will just have to be patient. None of us are happy about it, but barring a complete rollback to pre-U6 (which I would almost advocate....almost), it's going to take them a while to go through all that text. Quite a while indeed... but I think they'll figure it out.

I don't think it's a good idea to push 6.1 out until the lag issue is fixed, though. And Turbine, please make sure you code that patch using the correct build. Please...

[enginekid]

last night I lagged-out for easily a full minute on my Creep

in moria 6 man instances our entire group lagged out, totally frozen, for several seconds at a time. this happened in random intervals during the instance.

this isn't normal and all players said they never had this before U6

in Forges it caused several deaths as many fell over the ledges because of the freeze when fighting near ledges

[Doosie]

I posted yesterday stating i was having lad spikes soloing on two different servers in various areas. This was the first times i had experienced the lag which was occuring every 20-30secs and it continued today. I then i lost connnection during combat so i decided to quickly shut client down and log back in. While this was happening i got the the loading screen which says clearing down previous connection (or something like that). This took slightly longer than normal but once was back in the game the Lag spikes had dissapeared completely.
This clearing down from the client seemed have worked..and can you do this without having to loose internet connection???

[Feybobiam]

Yes. Because as Nuth points out a client issue doesn't always mean your PC, it can mean the code of the game itself, it could also mean the data is fragmented (and not just on your drive), or that the client/server handshaking (which wouldn't show up as any kind of measurable issue on the server or network side of things) is wonky.

As I've mentioned a couple of times, lag can be a tricky thing. Knowing it's not one thing doesn't mean it's not a million others. Knowing it might be a million other things doesn't mean it might not be any of them.

We do believe we're getting closer to the root cause, if only by process of elimination of what it isn't.

This is progress. We're not there yet, devs and players, but we're getting there. Thanks for continuing to stay on this and listening to the playerbase, and more importantly, reporting to us you're at least getting what we're saying to some degree. Communication is KEY! Especially on the internet.

[Lizzi123]

Just thought I would drop my 2 copper into this conversation.

I too have experienced lag spikes. I play solo and tend to get occassional lag spikes for no apparent reason. I'll just be running along and will stop for a couple minutes. It usually clears itself up but sometimes I have to restart the game. I haven't ventured into the new area yet so I wouldn't say it was due to being in an area of the game that was heavily populated. It just seems to happen from time to time.

I liked a previous suggestion that was made that perhaps Sapience and some others should go do some raids with groups on various servers (not Turbine staff but with real players) so they can observe what happens to people when they lag out. Since it isn't happening to the Turbine staff I think this would be a good way for them to begin to research something that is obviously a problem for a great many players. They could certainly do this anonymously if they don't want groups to know they are Turbine staff. And perhaps they are doing this. But, if that is the case, it would be nice to get some confirmation of that here.

[Sardonyx]

Here's some data: I run two boxes side by side - unfortunately, they're not identical builds, but both are reasonably powerful nVidia/Intel boxen. The other main difference is that the new box has SSD+RAID, while the old box is HDD.

The interesting thing - on the newer box I had no (or imperceptible) lag. On the older box there was noticable lag in the form of half-second hitches fairly frequently (> 10/hour). Yesterday, the old box was much worse, with multi-second stalls - at the exact same time, the new box was just fine. It's very unlikely that this is network related.

I then did the hack recommeneded here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ducing-the-Lag

Followed by copying back my keymap file so I didn't lose those. (Side point: I have never used/installed any plugins).

This seems to have improved the situation greatly. There are still small amounts of lag, but they are probably a tenth of a second or so. Not sure if I'd even notice them if I weren't watching for lag.

[Yosoff]

The root cause was update 6. The problem that so many people are experiencing didn't happen until update 6 went live.

This is a key point that i haven't seen sufficiently addressed by Sapience / Turbine.

In any company, when something breaks the day after a major software release, 99% of the time it's the software. 100% of the time the development team will claim that it's not the software. We've seen posts by the tech/data center guys, we've seen posts about server hardware, networks, ISPs, user computers, etc. Where is the dev team on all of this?

The lag started with update 6, every line of code that was released with update 6 needs to be reviewed.