To those transferring to Laurelin, a message:

[Calead]

@Landro : I know how you feel m8 its hard to see a post like this for our WW players thats been here for a long time now and its a very good idea Callie made to give advice to the players transfering. The only thing is that all these p[layers thats leaving , dont have any good reason for leaving WW for a RP server as people who actualy care about RP should have started with that at the start of the game as they give you the names of each server when you start like any other MMO. This is the reason for myself starting on WW and not Laurelin as RP for me in MMO is a waste of time and effort ( my opinion, it only a game and RL have more of my time ). Other players may go there without any interesed for RP. I am with you on this subject m8 so flaming here is your own right for showing your attention to our server. You are not alone on this matter as I believe many feel the same way but dont express them like you do now. When I am online and see on global some of the known names leaving us I feel sad and know that person have made the option for him/her to leave a place of memory and friendship. 1 last thing is that, you alone wont stop this from happening as you go out there and try make a difference to the server with events and always speak out on global. I know this is off the topic but like you, I am only giving my opinion on this matter you went thru.

@Callie : I been on the WW for a long time now and back when we were lvl65 I use to see you allot in 21st hall and you are 1 of the main reasons I love the cappy I play , but its good to know where you gone to and Goodluck on Laurelin server and always remember the players that knew you in WW as we will never forget you

PS :To everyone else I do hope you guys realise the differences and enjoy the rest of your yourney thru middle earth.

Thank you for your kind words, it is people like you that will keep withy alive

Thank you for offering balanced opinions and arguments on the matter and I'm glad my, frankly epic, captain was an inspiration to you

Cal

[Limmy]

my, frankly epic, captain

-snorts into bowl of cereal-

[Gettafix]

Learnt all he could from Harry Potter and a chopstick wand. (sorry^^)

[Calead]

-snorts into bowl of cereal-

Love recognition of sarcasm Limmy haha
Y U NO transfer Shak to Laurelin, would've enjoyed killing you some more



...


and Getta, just LOL

[Kalderic]

A French kinship name on an english roleplay server! Explain that to Elrond .

Thanks for the warning.

I would like to set something straight about your understandings of this server. Because I think the people you have talked to have exaggerated things a bit. Or at least only looked at a particular type of player.
I myself have not noticed much about people leaving, except that the annoying arguments in global have lessened a bit :P. in fact my own kinship is steadily growing and things are looking better every day. Withy just isn't a hardcore gamer server.

I hope everyone finds the server best suited for them. I'm glad you did.

Kaldegrim

[champs-are-us]

I am in agreement with Kaldegrim, this arguement that WW is dying is just getting annoying.

I have not noticed numbers in our server drop or climb in the 18 months or so i have played there, Numbers have remained steady IMO.

Seriously.... its just getting old now.

[Landrovas]

At last voices that actually play on the server talked . Thanks guyz was begining to think i was living in a paralel universe.

@Kaldegrim: you pretty much hit the point there - WW as a young server cannot be hardcore (for now at least). And yes since some people transfered global has endured less toxicity and arguments. And tbh were having more fun now that those people are gone then we had when they were here.

To explain: now that ettens is a bit cleaned by the ones that farmed, pved all day, QQed and spied (few remained but way less) the new people can come and have a good time. At the moment numbers may be a bit lower that say....in mirkwood time?...but at least people are civilised (most) and willing to have nice fights for fun.

Yes we have lost people in ettens. But some were just start huggers, gankers and trolls who <wanted something else>, meaning fast ranks. So sometimes a fire must burn for a forest to be reborn. And i hope WW will be reborn.

[Cillion]

To explain: now that ettens is a bit cleaned by the ones that farmed, pved all day, QQed and spied (few remained but way less) the new people can come and have a good time. At the moment numbers may be a bit lower that say....in mirkwood time?...but at least people are civilised (most) and willing to have nice fights for fun.

Yes we have lost people in ettens. But some were just star huggers, gankers and trolls who <wanted something else>, meaning fast ranks. So sometimes a fire must burn for a forest to be reborn. And i hope WW will be reborn.

That is a wrong,blind and pathetic statement sorry m8...

The PvE`ers and Farmers are still around,i dare to say they are even more since now not many ranked creeps are active to prevent it. If you honestly think it is cleaned from pve and farming i strongly suggest to look at the full day in the Moors... Not just 1h at the evening,cause that shows little of whats going on there during the rest of the day...

[Galmarrar]

I have not noticed numbers in our server drop or climb in the 18 months or so i have played there, Numbers have remained steady IMO.

I have been here 1,5 year as well and i can ensure u that peak population nowdays in global is 150 +- while around november-december was 180-200, that is a significant loss of number, if we can take global as a sign for server population.

[champs-are-us]

I have been here 1,5 year as well and i can ensure u that peak population nowdays in global is 150 +- while around november-december was 180-200, that is a significant loss of number, if we can take global as a sign for server population.

This was a month after we got ROI, ofc there will be more ppl online, the same will happen the latter half of this year lol

[BFM]

I think our withywindle server has become somewhere the adults hang out. We have a very polite, mature set of players and many prefer that to a busy server full of kids.

Why not post this in the Laurelin server area as it applies to everyone and not just withywindle. Blame many with kid names on the influx from steam and not imply that all on withywindle run round with silly names.

[zrinko]

In all of this stuff about Withy population you forgot on one crucial thing, How many out of 150 online today on glff, can actualy play on the level of content ? Maybe before ROI out of 150-200 ppl i would say 65-70% are capable of playing tasks for their level in instance/raid/pvmp content. Today out of 150 online, maybe 25-30% can actualy deal with ''situations'' they occur while raiding/pvmp-ing.


I loged on withy yesterday evening and population on global was 67 people. Now lets say 20 out of 67 is not near lvl70, then another 20 are probably not geared-skilled enough, what you have left is 20-30 people if you are lucky. Comparing that to 500 people on other servers from which 350 are lvl75, you will find much more users who can do pvmp (are vips) or will finish Too t2 (still problem to compleet on withy for 99% of population).

So - Withy, is dying but not fast enough i would say, since many lvl50 from month and half ago is now lvl75, while other lvl75 who was lvl50 2years ago left server, what u get is newbies lvl75, while u lost veteran and skilled old game types of lvl75s. If you are info numbers then new lvl75s will be ok for you, but if u wanna try something challenging or getting more into moors to make balance, then withy is fail.

[svu]

i agree with nurelin.
and another thing i prefer on a server with a number below 300 in global is you know a lot of ppl.
i would keep track of it if every1 keeps shouting in it with idk how much ppl.

and lotro is not only about the pvp, (far from) and raiding.
i play because of the social activity ect.

though to merge the server with another small one i would vote yes. but i preffer it to be a low/med pop server as a overrun one.

[Frepsy]

and another thing i prefer on a server with a number below 300 in global is you know a lot of ppl.
.

The problem is u know ALL people. To know ALL people in mmorpg game server is disturbing. Just let people seek happy gaming experience somewhere else. Those topics defending ww are useless. Same with the pvmp forum - only posting how bad it is and etc. Just put ww behind u as im going to do and move on. Happy gaming to those who decide to stay

[VentoPT]

Individual perceptions about server numbers vary according to your experience and your playtime.
I have been playing here for over an year. Many players i recall seeing around or that i had contact with have transfer some have quit the game and there were not that many new players in the server in the meantime.

Personally I would have transfered myself if turbine would transfer accounts and not just characters. I don't mind changing names or loosing the house but the shared stuff in wallet and loosing the 100 spots of shared vault space i paid for really annoy me.

The best thing in this game -group fighting and group mechanics- is also the worst for those who seek it in this server. Last night when i logged there was less than 70 people in globallff, which means to basically forget about doing anything group endgame wise.

You can play alone in the server and love it or even think it is the best thing. For me and many others its is not.

Right now i am trying to level up an alt untill a certain game is released, when that happens i probably just log in here from time to time. After that i may or may not return.

On my view this server due to its size does not help players that like end gaming (that and some dev's policies).

Dispite the nice people each one of us as come accross while playing this game, the community in this server is not good (to put it politely) and as it shrinks it gets worse as every detail/issue gets much more attention than it should, every bittering discussion among players gets more relevant.

To the Op: don't mind the bitterness. I do think your post was done with good faith and helping intentions.
Players ARE transfering out of this server regardless if others like it or not. Those will hopefully understand someday that denial or tabus around a problem does not solve it in the end.

Cheers

[Aisolon]

You cannot state it better than you did Vento. +Rep

[Calead]

To the Op: don't mind the bitterness. I do think your post was done with good faith and helping intentions.
Players ARE transfering out of this server regardless if others like it or not. Those will hopefully understand someday that denial or tabus around a problem does not solve it in the end.

Cheers

I don't know how to link multi-quote, but to all those that understand my post and intent, thanks. I think, Kaldegrim, you couldn't have said it better when you said your kin is growing and you're happy - that is good - If you're happy on WW that is fine, but people are transferring if not happy and this is just a 'warning' so to speak.

Thanks for some of the kind words and good luck to those on WW.

To those who're turning the thread into a discussion on WW's population, just make a new thread :s

Cal

[Landrovas]

Since the original topic of the thread was not very appealing to us here on WW since it was about laurelin im choosing to bite and reply to the off topic posts:

@ Frepsy: until you actually tell us who you are nobody cares if you leave, its like nobody leaves (get it?)
@ Vento: i am sorry you feel that way really.... but i do have some mentions for those who read what you posted

"the community in this server is not good (to put it politely) and as it shrinks it gets worse as every detail/issue gets much more attention than it should" - i have not seen you being a part of the comunity for ages. And if you judge from the bickering on the forum then your view is skewed. WW people are in a great percentage nice, polite and mature people. And very very laid back. I regret if you see us like nasty people and getting worse....each bitter discussion i ever heard in global was caused by the same people as always and that is not weird.

Im suspecting that your skewed view is due to the fact that once your kin disbanded due to not sharing the same viewed on gameplay (and maybe other things i dont know about) you isolated yourself from the WW comunity. And i dont say this lightly, i myself invited you twice to my kin and got both times a reply that you prefer solo.....and yet you wish more group happened on WW.....

And to all that feel they dont like on WW, just transfer (and im not cinical or ironical). You cause more harm both to the ones that stay and to yourself by staying. Your discontent nurtures hate and bitternes. And bitter people affect people around them. WW offers a cozy atmosphere, too laid back for now to maintain a hardcore kin. If you are hardcore and dont find your fun here find a hardcore server. But DO NOT trash the server, nor should you insult its members.

"If you're happy on WW that is fine, but people are transferring if not happy and this is just a 'warning' so to speak" (Calead) - beware december 2012 is coming....the prophecy told so

I think ther's a need to shed some light on WW situation since many speculations have been made.

@Zrinko: numbers went up steadly until a few months after RoI launched. Then two things happened. One is numbers dropped on all servers as they do after an expansion. More about the second a bit later.

@Calead: you think you know why people leave WW but you dont. You know why you left and thats fine. Talk for yourself but dont give predictions.

Our peak as a server (not counting pre mirk times when many of the old players were still in the game) was definetly around RoI launch. We even were not that much behind with raid progression and we were pretty much enthusiast about it.

But in Ettens a problem was brewing: two of the dominant kins were playing their dirty games there, many arguments about that on closed pvp threads. Cant say much about how stable were those kins (but i know for sure that many didnt like eachother in them) but at one point one of the kins just....transfered (blaming ettens which was gravely disfuntional due to arranged fights and non-cooperation).

Big drop in numbers of veterans then. We recovered and even did raids and such. Good times in pve. Ettens had just lost one of the two main kins, leaving just the aranged fights and selfish stuff. Big storm brewing there.

Then the second dominant kin just split in half. For a small period the hardcore half of it seem to be doing fine. But unstable leadership and ego-centric members affected it to. And also the before-mentioned lack of normality in ettens that offered no opportunity for the players that wanted normality (and didnt wish to fight for it).

They transfer and YET another hit. This left a sort of vaccum in the ettens population and not just that. Then yet another kinship decided to leave so they wouldnt have to contribute to reestablishing some sort of balance ( cannot blame them in any way, its natural to choose the path that is easier to achieve).

So thats 3 kinships left in a domino effect. And others left with them. So Calead maybe now you grasp how complex a MMO server is. It is not ONE thing or ONE person. It is not ETTENS or RAIDS. It is a complex model more to do with social mechanics and interconnecting effects. One badly run kinship really was what triggered a chain effect. The trigger was actually ages ago, hard to even think things are connected. But retrospectively its clear.....i remember when my own kin was emerging, we saw those two kins are being a pillar of the server. Loosing two pillars affect any structure, more even a such unstable construct like a MMO server.

I hope i wasnt to deep in my analisys....its what i do everyday, analyse people and probe them for what they really feel. And hope i wasnt to boring....wanted to shed some light on what was discussed, as i was here during this time and observed all these things unfold before me.

I also do not care if you agree or not...stated my oppinion and wouldnt have made so if i werent sure of my conclusion.

Could have made a new thread for it (maybe on Laurelin server - joking ;-) ) but i figured its well suited here.

Cheers and have a good day all

[champs-are-us]

I have decided to transfer, not because of the population, but because of the community, i cant stand it there anymore.

[Frepsy]

@ Frepsy: until you actually tell us who you are nobody cares if you leave, its like nobody leaves (get it?)

Who cares who is my game character me as a person express an opinion. And again me as a person i think u got big issues with the fact people don't like WW. Which i cant understand its not yours to protect it like little child. We all gave part of our time here but still sun shining outside not inside the pc so relax and move on.

[VentoPT]

@Landrovas all following quotes are from you

I did not want to reply to your posts and your atitude in this thread as I did not intend to go down in a pointless word fight. But I dont dodge it...

[QUOTE]Since the original topic of the thread was not very appealing to us here on WW since it was about laurelin im choosing to bite and reply to the off topic posts: [\QUOTE]

You play around with words all you want. The post was directed to those in WW wanting to transfer to Laurelin. so it has all the right to be here. My main language is not english and even I understood it.


[QUOTE]
@ Vento: i am sorry you feel that way really.... but i do have some mentions for those who read what you posted

"the community in this server is not good (to put it politely) and as it shrinks it gets worse as every detail/issue gets much more attention than it should" - i have not seen you being a part of the comunity for ages. And if you judge from the bickering on the forum then your view is skewed. WW people are in a great percentage nice, polite and mature people. And very very laid back. I regret if you see us like nasty people and getting worse....each bitter discussion i ever heard in global was caused by the same people as always and that is not weird.
[\QUOTE]

Read my post again, the same paragraph i clearly made a distinction between players and community and your attittude in this post is the best example of bad comunity attitude. As for me versus you clearly its a bit arrogant from you to use the term "us". You do not speak for the server comunity nor for the majority of players. My play style does not include "racing" horses in middle earth. If wanted RP i would move to Laurelin.

[QUOTE]
Im suspecting that your skewed view is due to the fact that once your kin disbanded due to not sharing the same viewed on gameplay (and maybe other things i dont know about) you isolated yourself from the WW comunity. And i dont say this lightly, i myself invited you twice to my kin and got both times a reply that you prefer solo.....and yet you wish more group happened on WW.....
[\QUOTE]

I made a post on my personal prespective on the server and my game presence and you fill your post with trash assumptions about me. You are so clever on your sherlock wannabe mind that you forget one thing called facts. Speaking of them... do you know that the players of my disbanded lotro guild have guild and a TS for the "other" game and that I am part of it, that I am still with them, that i am playing betaweekends with them??
So do you have anything else but empty words?
As for your invitations.. because i do have a sense of comunity and politness i would never reply rudely to someone who invites me to a kin. I made it to 75 in this server. I have a good idea about the kins and players here. To the invites i had from players I know and that know me i explained exactly my reasons not to joinning a kin at this point to all other i just wanted to play solo for a while.

[QUOTE]
And to all that feel they dont like on WW, just transfer (and im not cinical or ironical). You cause more harm both to the ones that stay and to yourself by staying. Your discontent nurtures hate and bitternes. And bitter people affect people around them. WW offers a cozy atmosphere, too laid back for now to maintain a hardcore kin. If you are hardcore and dont find your fun here find a hardcore server. But DO NOT trash the server, nor should you insult its members.
[\QUOTE]

There was no bitterness or hate on my post and about transfering out i made it pretty clear why i havent done it yet.

[QUOTE]
Our peak as a server (not counting pre mirk times when many of the old players were still in the game) was definetly around RoI launch. We even were not that much behind with raid progression and we were pretty much enthusiast about it.

But in Ettens a problem was brewing: two of the dominant kins were playing their dirty games there, many arguments about that on closed pvp threads. Cant say much about how stable were those kins (but i know for sure that many didnt like eachother in them) but at one point one of the kins just....transfered (blaming ettens which was gravely disfuntional due to arranged fights and non-cooperation).

Big drop in numbers of veterans then. We recovered and even did raids and such. Good times in pve. Ettens had just lost one of the two main kins, leaving just the aranged fights and selfish stuff. Big storm brewing there.

Then the second dominant kin just split in half. For a small period the hardcore half of it seem to be doing fine. But unstable leadership and ego-centric members affected it to. And also the before-mentioned lack of normality in ettens that offered no opportunity for the players that wanted normality (and didnt wish to fight for it).

They transfer and YET another hit. This left a sort of vaccum in the ettens population and not just that. Then yet another kinship decided to leave so they wouldnt have to contribute to reestablishing some sort of balance ( cannot blame them in any way, its natural to choose the path that is easier to achieve).

So thats 3 kinships left in a domino effect. And others left with them.
[\QUOTE]

...so... even you see something wrong with veteran players leaving or is the "world" perfect as it ever was?

[QUOTE]
So Calead maybe now you grasp how complex a MMO server is. It is not ONE thing or ONE person. It is not ETTENS or RAIDS. It is a complex model more to do with social mechanics and interconnecting effects. One badly run kinship really was what triggered a chain effect. The trigger was actually ages ago, hard to even think things are connected. But retrospectively its clear.....i remember when my own kin was emerging, we saw those two kins are being a pillar of the server. Loosing two pillars affect any structure, more even a such unstable construct like a MMO server.
[\QUOTE]
If the community is/was that good as you claim the fall of 1 kin would not have collapsed so many others

[QUOTE]
I hope i wasnt to deep in my analisys....its what i do everyday, analyse people and probe them for what they really feel. And hope i wasnt to boring....wanted to shed some light on what was discussed, as i was here during this time and observed all these things unfold before me.

I also do not care if you agree or not...stated my oppinion and wouldnt have made so if i werent sure of my conclusion.
[\QUOTE]

Your analysis is not thorough not coherent and not consistent you clearly did not just stated you opinnion as you clearly decided to argue with other players stated namely me which i never addressed you on it.


Final note on your arrogant tone all accross this thread:
You are NOT the spokesman of WW, you are NOT the spokesman of its players (of your kin if that much). Your ego may be to inflated with your GALA title but remember one thing that title brings you closer to Turbine than to the players.
If you want to be Turbine's spokesman in this server go ahead its up to them.



Cheers and have fun organizing races.

[Landrovas]

Final note on your arrogant tone all accross this thread:
You are NOT the spokesman of WW, you are NOT the spokesman of its players (of your kin if that much). Your ego may be to inflated with your GALA title but remember one thing that title brings you closer to Turbine than to the players.
If you want to be Turbine's spokesman in this server go ahead its up to them.

Cheers and have fun organizing races.

MY GOD....dont even have what to say really. Ill try this: from the moment i started on this server i have done many many things in the comunity and for the comunity. I am a modest person, all who know me think that. But i WILL be arrogant to those that deserve it. And also cinical and ironical. In real life i can be conforting a little girl who has a terminal illnes one moment and trashing a &&&&&&& person for being unpolite the next. But do not dare call me arrogant.

And start accusing me of stuff when you have done just 1% of what i have done for this server and its players. As opposed to you i play for the fun of others (my kin, the kins were friends with, unkown people that have enjoyed our events). You play for your own egocentrical reasons so you can feel good about yourself and your gear. I have achieved enough in my real life so i dont have to come into a game to boost my ego.

I have just one phrase for you: GO AND TRANSFER. There is no server or game on this earth where you will be trully content.

PS: i did the Gala event to offer some fun to our server. Dozens enjoyed it. You didnt. And your last paragraph denotes pathological paranoia as Turbine isnt a goverment organisation and Lotro isnt a political society. And yes i will enjoy doing more and more events, because my friends on WW deserve my effort. You dont deserve it.

Hope i do not see you soon. And congratz you managed to be beat any rant zrinko could have ever thrown at me. I have teh feeling he at least respected me.

[Landrovas]

Who cares who is my game character me as a person express an opinion. And again me as a person i think u got big issues with the fact people don't like WW. Which i cant understand its not yours to protect it like little child. We all gave part of our time here but still sun shining outside not inside the pc so relax and move on.

An oppinion stated from anonimity is less then what it can be. I was merely refering to the fact that you sometimes post in PvP thread and nobody actually knows who you are. Thus your oppinion is lowered in impact.

And yes im attached to this server. I am a terrible person for that.

You sure the sun isnt shining in the PC? i thought it was, wait lemme open the basement doors....oh wait i dont live in a basement and ur making asumptions about my personal life :P

[VentoPT]

But do not dare call me arrogant.

And start accusing me of stuff when you have done just 1% of what i have done for this server and its players. As opposed to you i play for the fun of others (my kin, the kins were friends with, unkown people that have enjoyed our events). You play for your own egocentrical reasons so you can feel good about yourself and your gear. I have achieved enough in my real life so i dont have to come into a game to boost my ego.
.

I rest my case

[Landrovas]

Weirdly i would have chosen any other paragraph to rest my case on. I was even coherent in that one. Others are not very flattering and even have the posibility to portrait me as nasty.

But anyhow i wanted to say something witty but that would just mean im arrogant. So no witty conclusions for ya mate.

I rest my case

I object your honor, manipulation of the Jury!!!!