Riders of Rohan Developer Diary Feedback: Champion

[Lestache]

i thought i did :P i might be wrong but isn't that the legacy which extends time before i switch from fighing mode to out-of-fight mode?
then i don't care bout that change and find the new champion even better

Combat-effect removal delay affects only skills that remain active while in combat - it doesn't actually keep you in combat.

When the legacy was first introduced in Moria, we had:

1) Controlled Burn that, once activated, would remain active as long as you were in combat;
2) Red Haze - same as above;
3) Blocking Blades - same as above;
4) If you were in Ardour or Controlled Burn, you had Ardent Flurry that would... yep;
5) If you were in Glory or Controlled Burn, you had Glorious Exchange that also would...;
6) And one debuff effect - the power cost debuff from Fight On!

Nowadays:

1) Controlled Burn has a definite duration and isn't limited to combat only;
2) Same for Red Haze (or it's always on in Ardour);
3) Blocking Blades was changed to Seeking Blade;
4) Ardent Flurry is gone and is now Fervent Flurry, which remains on even outside of combat;
5) Glorious Exchange remains on as long as you're in Glory, even out of combat;
6) The Fight On! debuff is unchanged.

So we went from using that legacy to keeping 1-5 buffs up in between fights, to:

The legacy only helps extend the duration of a horrible debuff.

It really should've been removed quite some time ago - glad someone finally got around to doing so.

[MessyR]

The stronger bubble is the only issue that ruins it for me, the rest is nice to see.

Why on earth do we need a stronger bubble?

[Dorothir]

The stronger bubble is the only issue that ruins it for me, the rest is nice to see.

Why on earth do we need a stronger bubble?

Well we don't need one with current content at our current level. RoR L85 might be different.

[Kaldenas]

The legacy only helps extend the duration of a horrible debuff.

actually, there is one buff it affects. the exchange of blows you get for using controlled burn (if not in glory with reprisal traited)
lasts for as long as you are in combat, and a short time out of combat.

but agreed, exchange of blows is hardly needed outside of glory, and even if it was, getting a legacy for that one skill would be ridiculous.

[Kaldenas]

i use it sometimes, but not very often because i have hp pots, dire need, sudden defence, second hp bar in bubble from true heroics, endurance of stone, champions horn, horn of gondor and it gets me less hp (around 500 if i remember right) than i can take from my enemy in the time of piping it up and executing blow

there's one more way of looking at it... considering the fact that BA is on a 30sec CD, and a morale pot on 2 min CD, comparing the two would require counting BA X4. so, compared to a morale pot, it gives about 2k morale (which is more than a 75 morale pot). it's a good skill to keep you going while just leveling around. and getting used to it is economically more efficient than buying-crafting morale pots

[ragnagord1]

there's one more way of looking at it... considering the fact that BA is on a 30sec CD, and a morale pot on 2 min CD, comparing the two would require counting BA X4. so, compared to a morale pot, it gives about 2k morale (which is more than a 75 morale pot). it's a good skill to keep you going while just leveling around. and getting used to it is economically more efficient than buying-crafting morale pots

maybe, but it takes 3 fervour which could be used to deal more damage on the enemy than it prevents me from getting. and hp pot is cheap (mobs drops it more than i could use due to cd, and i use it only when i'm low on power or skills are on cooldowns)

i ain't tank, instead of being able to survive more hits i prefer killing enemies faster so they cannot execute their hits and therefore i don't have a need to populate my hp bar cuz it ain't depleted (with exceptions for high hp mobs)

my point is that losing offensive potential over replenishing hp is not more efficient in any case in comparison to maximum dps + free hp pot/efficient self heal (true heroics gives over 5k hp for 5 fervour)

so now it looks like 4BA gives a little bit more than 1 HP pot, but costs me 4 hits on enemy, which means i'm getting hit 4 more times (if he has my attack speed)

[Kaldenas]

maybe, but it takes 3 fervour which could be used to deal more damage on the enemy than it prevents me from getting. and hp pot is cheap (mobs drops it more than i could use due to cd, and i use it only when i'm low on power or skills are on cooldowns)

i ain't tank, instead of being able to survive more hits i prefer killing enemies faster so they cannot execute their hits and therefore i don't have a need to populate my hp bar cuz it ain't depleted (with exceptions for high hp mobs)

my point is that losing offensive potential over replenishing hp is not more efficient in any case in comparison to maximum dps + free hp pot/efficient self heal (true heroics gives over 5k hp for 5 fervour)

so now it looks like 4BA gives a little bit more than 1 HP pot, but costs me 4 hits on enemy, which means i'm getting hit 4 more times (if he has my attack speed)

well, most champs will agree on the "kill it before kills you" (aka the "dead don't hit") logic, me being among them. if it works for you, then continue fighting as you did so far. but, do know that BA has it's time and place, and don't underestimate it.

[Ethrildar]

your missing the point....


its champs highest damage skill,


it used to take more than 1.2 sec to generate the ferv cost of the skill


now its like wild attack.... just hit it and it goes.

new champ rotation:

wild attack
remoseless
wild attack
remorseless
wild attack
remoseless
mercyful blow


you have now killed a rank 11 reaver.



oh and before its said.... dont throw that "high power cost" stuff at me... cause a power pot + crazy ferv regen + second wind (traited/not) will deal with that for long enough for you to kill anything the moors

You sir, clearly know very little about the classes you evidently don't play.

A) It takes 4 fervour to generate enough fervour for Remorseless, those lucky enough to actually get enough comms to get the full set, (which usually give moors champs ridiculously low power) will be screwed trying to spam that skill anyway. It uses 1/8 of your total power pool per hit. Yes we have good ICPR and a pretty heft second wind power regen skill, but as it is with a 4 second cooldown at the moment, you can still find yourself powerless most of the time if you constantly use it.

B) Brutal Strikes has a far higher critical hit rate and far higher damage without crit than remorseless, which is why most of the decent champs in the moors these days don't bother using Remorseless, it's about time it became worth using.

C) Currently, remorseless strikes' only use, is: Seeking blade (Force crit) > Remorseless (usually evaded anyway) > Return to Brutal Strikes.


----------------------------

Back to the point. I like these changes, they do look good.. Going to need even more empowerment scrolls on those LI's of mine though So many good legacies.

I like the sound of the Merc Strike buff, it's already a very powerful skill when traited, can't wait to see some mega crits with that at 85.

I agree with what someone above said regarding champ survivability. I find that if I don't use bubbles and saving skills my class is barely able to survive in 1v1s with tougher mobs (Reavers/Flayer wargs (trolololol)) it's a tough class but it relies far too heavily on bubbling, it should be kicking out heavy dps enough to kill the opponent before it dies, not sprinting away bubbling.

Last thing, someone said that the new bubbles will be way too OP because creeps can't already take down our bubbles. It takes a mid-high rank warg about 4 hits to remove a 3k bubble from a champ. If you can't kill the bubble just kite it, they're only 15-30 second duration anyway. 90% of failcreeps kite the bubbles and buffs champs have, making them effectively useless anyway.

Good changes Devs, glad you managed to give us worthwhile changes, unlike with burgs in RoR

[Kaldenas]

Yes we have good ICPR and a pretty heft second wind power regen skill, but as it is with a 4 second cooldown at the moment, you can still find yourself powerless most of the time if you constantly use it.

not sure what you meant by 4 sec CD. second wind is on a 10 sec CD, and lasts for 10 secs, so you can have it up constantly. I apologize if I misunderstood your statement though, as I have said, not sure what you meant by it.

[Ethrildar]

not sure what you meant by 4 sec CD. second wind is on a 10 sec CD, and lasts for 10 secs, so you can have it up constantly. I apologize if I misunderstood your statement though, as I have said, not sure what you meant by it.

I was referring to Remorseless Strikes having a 4 second cooldown

[Kaldenas]

I was referring to Remorseless Strikes having a 4 second cooldown

again not quite sure what you mean, since RS has a 1.8 sec CD lol

[Enska]

hmm generally I don't think there is much to complain about the changes, not much negative to them.
Though I think the main things that champs asked for (ICPR being the biggest) in the thread have been ignored.
I am well aware a lot of people might have exagerated there and wanted their class to be (more) OP, but I think the power issue really should have been adressed.

Despite this as a pvp'er I'm liking the melee range on weapons. the rest, the heal on Bracing is nice, and that you will get them no matter what. The Wild Attack Crit seems good as well tho as mentioned before in the thread, 6s seems a bit short for only a 5% extra chance, if it was a massive amount, the short duration would make sense, but I doubt there will be that much difference in dps with it.

Besides this I have to agree with Thane9 (I think it was) I actually hoped for more brutal skills that adds up to the image of the champ, kill before killed, instead of kill before bubble, bubble, heal, bubble killed I guess this is a lot in a pvp aspect, but well we're a dps class, and I would've preferred to see better/more changes in that area

[RykertheStryka]

Does anyone else think there should be some other set off for Fight ON other than being below 60% morale i mean i would love to beable to use this skill in raids but if i ever get under 60% morale it normaly means we are wiping so whats the point and with the Debuff that it gives you why not just make it like controlled burn now .......i know when doing ToO it would be really good to have when u have to push as much DPS in a small amount of time

[VentoPT]

A request for Dev's:

This is the 2nd time in a row focusing on tanking skills.
Can we have some real developments for champions next time please?

This wont solve the class gating unless making champ class everytime less attractive is your goal.
Champs don't really have fun tanking otherwise they would have rolled guardians for it.
Give guardians some more dps and let them have fun tanking. They are the ones built up for taking damage with improved morale and mitigations.

Thank you

[Starbuck1771]

A request for Dev's:

This is the 2nd time in a row focusing on tanking skills.
Can we have some real developments for champions next time please?

This wont solve the class gating unless making champ class everytime less attractive is your goal.
Champs don't really have fun tanking otherwise they would have rolled guardians for it.
Give guardians some more dps and let them have fun tanking. They are the ones built up for taking damage with improved morale and mitigations.

Thank you

I agree totaly us Champs need some love but I don't see it happening.

[rhys637]

Soooo, since your playing iwth Legacies for champions...does this mean that our new Runes will actually have the fixed Legacies itemized properly for level? Not asking for the 75s to actually ahve level 75 ones, since thats a lost cause, just hoping our 85s wont ahve 75 ratings, which are actully 65 ratings.

[Bevy]

Why are a lot of players going on about these changes if they don't even know how its going to be played out at 85? All they are doing is referring to what it would effect to the current lvl 75 bracket of the game.

Wait till 85.. test it out and then whine .. Jeese

and for all the skill lore junkies... seriously just seriously???

[HEYYAbbot]

the new horn works like boromirs horn. think of it as a fear inducing blast it reduces threat by making our enemies fear it

[Darkheart06]

Are going to ever get a second look at our legendaries like Fight On, Continuous Bloodrage, and Ferocious Strikes? I haven't slotted any of them since Mirkwood. They're not legendary, they're just useless.

[Gylve]

Disagree. Fight On! is definitely in need of a buff as right now it's only maybe a niche trait for Moors builds. Ferocious isn't amazing with a 2H, doing just slightly more damage than Brutal, but can work as a filler to hit if Brutal's on CD since it'll hit harder than Remorseless on average. It is, though, really hard-hitting dual wield as it gets bigger base damage multipliers than with 2H.

CBR is awesome. I only use it when I have a healer I can trust to keep HoTs on me without hurting his ability to heal others or, much more obviously, when I can count on a captain to put Revealing Mark on my targets. With CBR up you should be able to outheal the DoT just by hitting the marked target really, really hard.

[OptimShi]

What does the new legacy "Champion Skill Bubble Strength" / "increase the strength of their bubbles by a percentage." mean? Strength of a bubble? What the heck is a "bubble" and what the heck does it have to with a Champion?

(Serious question and a serious point that there's too many Champion legacy names that make no sense. Might as well be in Finnish for as clear as they are...)

[Lestache]

What does the new legacy "Champion Skill Bubble Strength" / "increase the strength of their bubbles by a percentage." mean? Strength of a bubble? What the heck is a "bubble" and what the heck does it have to with a Champion?

(Serious question and a serious point that there's too many Champion legacy names that make no sense. Might as well be in Finnish for as clear as they are...)

Sudden Defence (SD) and True Heroics both apply a morale bubble to the Champion. The morale bubble is there to soak up damage that would ordinarily be done to the Champion. Each bubble has a certain strength based on different factors (pips consumed for SD, and stance for True Heroics). Once the bubble has taken all the damage that it can (anywhere from 1.8k to 5kish), further damage goes to the Champ again.

Each bubble also has a maximum duration, so in the case that less damage is done to the bubble than the bubble can take, the remainder of the bubble disappears.

Presumably Champion Skill Bubble Strength will make the magnitude (strength) of each bubble greater by whatever percentage the legacy shows. Not having been in beta, I have no idea what the percentages are, though.

[OptimShi]

Presumably Champion Skill Bubble Strength will make the magnitude (strength) of each bubble greater by whatever percentage the legacy shows. Not having been in beta, I have no idea what the percentages are, though.

Wow, that's way off from what I was thinking... I was thinking "Strength" as a base attribute, which I guess is really "Might". Seeing as how I had no clue what a bubble was, and that it must be something that exists that isn't called a "bubble", it made as much sense that "Strength" would be "Might".

Thanks for the clarification...