Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

[Magnarr]

Hey all,

Here's a question that I've been trying to get a hard-line answer for, and as much as I know the question has been asked in a couple of other threads, nothing confirmed as of yet, so I thought I'd try here as well.

This is in regards to the runes visible on Laugfut's collar, seen here:



As you can see, it's gotten mirrored at the halfway mark, so we can't read it propperly, but it's Cirth, at least, and the visible first half looks to be something like 'Ige Meloo Palan—' The last symbol before the mirroring could be an 'n', in full but cut off, or else it might also be the rune for 'kh', then mirrored back to back with itself; can't tell.

the other possibility, one supposes is that that half-collar set is the full inscription, simply repeated from side to centre on either side, meeting inthe middle, but it does look more like a case of texture mirroring.

I considered that it didn't seem very like the rest of the game to have a random jumble of runes for appearance's sake, and somewhere around here Berephon mentioned that there aren't supposed to be any random runes floating about without meaning.

Without having any knowledge of the actual translation process, I can't offer much more, I'm afraid. This was brought up inthe hidden nuggets thread as well, at one point, but no solid answer was found or confirmed, then, and the thread moved on.

Perhaps someone here can drag some meaning or sense out of this, or what it might have been, or if we're really lucky, someone official might know what it was mean to have been originally? Sorry if I'm covering old turf here, but I can't seem to lay my hands on a solid answer for myslef, without a propper understanding of the runes and the language, which I don't have, heheh...

-Harla

...IGE:MELOO:PALAKSALAF:OO-...

One of those runes transcribed was upside down. That's okay in early runic language but not in Cirth. Seems like artistic gibberish to me unfortunately on that one.

[Daeross]

...IGE:MELOO:PALAKSALAF:OO-...

One of those runes transcribed was upside down. That's okay in early runic language but not in Cirth. Seems like artistic gibberish to me unfortunately on that one.

Question I'd like to ask is whether we're dealing with Certhas Daeron, Angerthas Moria or Angerthas Erebor?
All of them have...differences.

Edit: Can't check myself, atm. Don't have my runes at hand.

[Magnarr]

Used this guide for it: http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q...arr/cirth2.gif

Not familiar with variations that would change up Cirth runic transcription to Latin lettering prior to other translations, but would be happy to be filled in if so. Ever learning and always curious.


On a side note, if anyone has a link to a Khuzdul/English dictionary (or others) it would be much appreciated. I know there's a pdf available via a paid download for that and several other Tolkien languages, but would prefer not to have to buy it. There's a fine line between cheap and thrifty. I ride that line.

[Daeross]

Used this guide for it: http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q...arr/cirth2.gif

Not familiar with variations that would change up Cirth runic transcription to Latin lettering prior to other translations, but would be happy to be filled in if so. Ever learning and always curious.

That diagram's straight from the Appendices, and as such, it's more or less the best source, imo.

What the diagram misses is the info in the 'narrative':

"In the Table of Values those on the left are, when separated by -, the values of the older Angerthas. Those on the right are the values of the Dwarvish Angerthas Moria. (Those in brackets () are values only found in Elvish use; * marks cirth only used by Dwarves.)--- Angerthas Moria is represented in the tomb-inscription (for Balin)."

"The Dwarves of Erebor used a further modification of this system, known as the mode of Erebor, and exemplified in the Book of Mazarbul. Its chief charasteristics were: the use of 43 as z; of 17 as ks (x); and the invention of two new cirth, 57, 58 for ps and ts. They also reintroduced 14, 16, for the values j, zh; but used 29, 30 for g, gh, or as mere variants of 19, 21. These peculiarities are not included in the table, except for the special Ereborian cirth, 57, 58."

To make things even funnier, Tolkien suggested that there were even more variations on the cirth. A little earlier in the Appendices, under Writing:
"The Cirth in their older and simpler form spread eastward in the Second Age, and became known to many peoples, to Men and Dwarves, and even to Orcs, all of whom altered them to suit their purposes and according to their skill or lack of it. One such simple form was still used by the Men of Dale, and a similar one by the Rohirrim."

The way Turbine's interpreted this is by using Anglo-Saxon fuþorc for the Rohirrim. More on that after the launch of RoR.

As for Khuzdul (Appendices FTW )...
"Yet in secret --- (the Dwarves) used their own strange tongue, changed little by the years; for it had become a tongue of lore rather than a cradle-speech, and they tended and guarded it as a treasure of the past."

Nonetheless...
These two links might help?
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ary(revisited)
http://dwarrowscholar.mymiddleearth....lotro-dwarves/

[Erunamo86]

With the introduction of Rohan, more great examples of Turbine's lore, linguistic and artistic work have found their way into the game.

One of which is a memorial to honour Eorl the Young, first king of the Mark. I've taken a few screenshots and added some explanations to them and the runes you can find on them.

(the posts are pretty long and contain many images, so instead of spamming this thread with several posts and images, I'll provide a link to the thread I started)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-Eorl-s-Hallow

God I love that place

[Daeross]

I think the best ever use of runes, in any way, came with the launch of the Riders of Rohan...and the subsequent new tier for crafting.
Because Tailors can in Tier 8, Eastemnet, craft a lvl80 cloak, with runes near its hem:

Not the first cloak with runes. Though these aren't tengwar nor cirth, but Anglo-saxon fuþorc, and using those these runes, read from left to right, transliterate as:

passmethar chickensalad

I guess whoever was responsible was hungry...

[Daeross]

A whole number of 'new' runes!

I thought it'd be sensible to gather all the Lore-master's Signs into one entry, with clarifications on what the tengwar looks like...

Durin's Stone in Nanduhirion is true to the book, too, since it does feature runes... which, contrary to the book, are visible enough to read... at least if you squint.

Much easier to read were the cirth upon the Dwarf-markers in Enedwaith, though.

[c_the_awesome]

Chrisandir has just revived Best-thread-ever

[Valamar]

Please note... with the termination of the Lorebook and revision of the Forums coming on Monday (29 July, 2013), I have transferred the entries from the Lorebook "Category: Translations" to lotro-wiki.com.

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Translations

See the category "Translations" for all the specific pages as I'm still in the process of transferring things.

Anyone who is not listed as a contributor who should be, please let me know.

Please visit Lotro-wiki and become a contributor there! We can always use the help.

[Nymphonic]

I think the best ever use of runes, in any way, came with the launch of the Riders of Rohan...and the subsequent new tier for crafting.
Because Tailors can in Tier 8, Eastemnet, craft a lvl80 cloak, with runes near its hem:

Not the first cloak with runes. Though these aren't tengwar nor cirth, but Anglo-saxon fuþorc, and using those these runes, read from left to right, transliterate as:

passmethar chickensalad

I guess whoever was responsible was hungry...

Ok, that's pretty darn funny!

[Al.]

This thread makes me want to start a Loremaster

[YamydeAragon]

I found this [Autumn Welcome Mat] have a phrase we hear a lot from friendly Galadhrim Guardians: Mae govannen, or Welcome, in Sindarin.

[Daeross]

I found this [Autumn Welcome Mat] have a phrase we hear a lot from friendly Galadhrim Guardians: Mae govannen, or Welcome, in Sindarin.

That's not unique to the autumnal piece; it's what the Summer welcome mat has, too, as well as the basic welcome mat. All in Sindarin tehta mode.

There's also the Unwelcome Mat... which seems to have Angerthas Erebor on it, spelling out "nagbgoshan".

As an aside, I was worried this thread had been swept away; apparently I just had forgotten where it lay, and lost my own links to it.
Happy to be proven wrong.

[CalloWindBringer]

Translations for the runes on the burial mounds of the kings of Rohan.

The nine on the right, starting closest to the gate:

EORL GEONG (Eorl the Young)
BREGO
ALDOR EALD (Aldor the Old)
FREA
FREAWINE
GOLDWINE
DEOR
GRAM
HELM HAMORHAND

This is the first line of kings, their mounds lying in the order of their reigns.


The seven on the left, again starting closest to the gate:

FREALAF HILDESUNU (Frealaf Hildeson)
BRYTA LEOFA (Brytta Beloved)
WALDA
FOLCA HUNTERE
FOLCWINE
FENGEL
THENGEL THRIWABREME (Thengel Thrice-Renowned)*

This is the second line of kings, also lying in the order of their reigns. Soon Théoden will be laid in an eighth mound here, next to his father Thengel, thus ending the second line.

*thanks to Daeross for correction

[YamydeAragon]

There are many rune marked places in west Rohan. It called my attention the collection of tapestry of their heroes but specially the shield maiden & another of the men & elves sharing a arrow. Less bold are the runes on the rocks along the way that lead to the path of dead.

[Daeross]

There are many rune marked places in west Rohan. It called my attention the collection of tapestry of their heroes but specially the shield maiden & another of the men & elves sharing a arrow. Less bold are the runes on the rocks along the way that lead to the path of dead.

"Another of men and elves sharing an arrow"? Do you mean the tapestry in Aldburg Mead Hall, depicting the forging of the alliance between Éorl the Young and Cirion the Steward of Gondor?
No elves in that, though I can see how the beardless, blonde Éorl could be mistaken for one...

Westemnet's a tresure trove for curiosities. Just like Eastemnet.

[YamydeAragon]

... No elves in that, though I can see how the beardless, blonde Éorl could be mistaken for one ...

Then someone screwed the graphics because the blondy beside the horse have pointy ears & i see no beard on him but i don't think that shaving is a new invention.

[Daeross]

Then someone screwed the graphics because the blondy beside the horse have pointy ears & i see no beard on him but i don't think that shaving is a new invention.

He's beardless, yeah; I just thought that was there because of his epithet. Guy with a beard is harder to sell as "Young", after all.
As for ears, on my screen he has just as rounded ears as Cirion and co.

The fuþorc under said scene are unambiguous. They clearly spell out Eorl Geong stiwearde aðselleð; Eorl the Young (and the) Steward swore an oath.

[YamydeAragon]

He's beardless, yeah; I just thought that was there because of his epithet. Guy with a beard is harder to sell as "Young", after all.
As for ears, on my screen he has just as rounded ears as Cirion and co.

The fuþorc under said scene are unambiguous. They clearly spell out Eorl Geong stiwearde aðselleð; Eorl the Young (and the) Steward swore an oath.

Oh i beleive you about what it said. But young with beard not possible? I dont know..., at some places boys start growing beard at 8 years old.

[YamydeAragon]

More runes! The level 95 crafted light armor pants have something written on them at the ankle high. To read the whole inscription you must be shoeless. Do someone know what they say?

[BirdofHermes]

Does anyone know what this translates to?






If it's any help, the sword is called Blade of Old Foes (a reference to Spider-kin), has extra damage to Spiders & Insects (ditto), has Westernesse damage (so presumably forged by Men though the runes seem to be Tengwar) and is dropped by Thorog.

[Daeross]

Does anyone know what this translates to?

Given that, as usual, we appear to lack half the letters (vowels), and even the consonants given are a bit smudgy... Good luck. I'm not awake enough to try to find words fitting the consonants given (mb, l, nd; v?; m, r, ngw, s?).
However, this, specifically, is a pretty common decoration on a number of weapons. Another common decoration transliterates to "dagnir in glamhoth"
(Slayer of (the) Dinhorde), but this isn't that. Nor is this "hathel thelian" (Blade of the Steadfast)... I'll get to this when I have my wits about me, and lack of RL obligations.

(so presumably forged by Men though the runes seem to be Tengwar)-

The only letters used in Middle-earth, far as we know from the books, are tengwar ('elvish letters') and cirth ('runes'); they're both in origin Elvish (Fëanor took over Rúmil's work and refined tengwar, Daeron of Doriath composed the cirth), even though Elves themselves preferred, at large, the former, and Dwarves took the latter for their own, creating their own modes of it, and Tolkien mentions how Orcs and Men had their own variants of cirth.
("The Cirth in their older and simpler form spread eastward in the Second Age, and became known to many peoples, to Men and Dwarves, and even to Orcs, all of whom altered them to suit their purposes and according to their skill or lack of it. One such simple form was still used by the Men of Dale, and a similar one by the Rohirrim." - Lord of the Rings, Appendices)
(Imo, Turbine's dealt with this comment admirably, using fuþorc for everything that's written down in Rohan.)

The apparent lack of other writing forms is the reason Sauron inscribed his Ring in tengwar.
Furthermore, at the very beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring, there's mention how "Hobbits learned their letters and began to write after the manner of the Dúnedain, who had in their turn long before learned the art from the Elves."

[c_the_awesome]

Hey I recently watched The Battle of the Five Armies, and I was wondering, What does Kili's Runestone say and what are the runes on Sting?
I'm sorry, but I don't have a picture of either one of them.

[Daeross]

For Kili's runestone:
http://middleearthnews.com/2014/01/0...lis-runestone/

For Sting:
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_i...tions.htm#maeg

[bambubambubambu]

For Kili's runestone:
http://middleearthnews.com/2014/01/0...lis-runestone/

For Sting:
http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_i...tions.htm#maeg

Great to see you back Daeross! Always enjoy your posts.