The Death of group play? (Open tapping/contribution discussion)

[Thane9]

But your talking about killing a specific mob right? What did you do exactly to help in its death? The update was pretty clear weeks ago about open tapping:



That was from the dev diary, what was your contribution to killing the monster?

The contribution was being in that group providing strength to the group as a whole.

I know for a FACT that as a Champ I will pull like mad when I have a group backing me up. Often I tear through numerous mobs faster than they could tab through them. But if I were solo I would/could never pull so aggressively.

My issue with open tapping is actually the other side of the equation. The people who DO "tap" everything do nothing REAL to contribute to the fight. They're just running around tapping. Tap tap tap tap....oh yay! 4 kills while other questers do all the work.

And don't claim this doesn't happen. Because it does. I just finished the grind to 85 and it was FULL of people doing just that. This was especially apparent in the numerous "cave" areas where people would just drive by tap and never really stop to fight anything.

The whole system is a RUIN to the idea of risk/reward or cost/benefit game design. Terrible.

Editing to add: This is in all liklihood why the "boss" mobs in the book quests are so lame and underpowered. Because on MANY occasions while fighting one of those ~20k guys I had a stream of players who would just tag him and run off....Hunters were the worst...I'd see an arrow pew in and then nothing but their backside as they ran off to tag the next thing.

[Kril]

Grouping is not the "part of the heart and soul" of LotRO. The vast majority of questing is designed to be soloed. If playing in a Fellowship is "part of the heart and soul" of LotRO for you, fine and dandy. For you.

Grouping and playing with other people is the heart and soul of any MMO, not just LOTRO. See that second "M" in MMO, do you know what it stands for?

[maxjenius]

I make my comments about freeloaders because they are the ones who mostly benefit from open tagging while fellowships suffer.

And yet I think you've posted that the "freeloading" so-called issue does not matter to you.

Grouping and playing with other people is the heart and soul of any MMO, not just LOTRO. See that second "M" in MMO, do you know what it stands for?

Then I guess MMO developers making so much soloalble content are way off base. So I've been playing LotRO incorrectly (soloing and duoing) these past 3 years and all the "fun" I thought I was having was an illusion.

[Daglas]

And yet I think you've posted that the "freeloading" so-called issue does not matter to you.

I think the people bringing up "freeloading" are just doing it to provide some contrast. Not to say that people shouldn't get credit for that kind of tapping, but rather that if those people get credit, the otherwise contributing members of my fellowship should as well.

And I tend to agree. Turbine needs to redefine contribution!

[Rippentuck]

So its fair for one player to fight and kill mobs, but because others tapped it and did nothing else to contribute they get exactly the same as the player who did all the work. That's fairer is it? No, if you want fair, then to qualify for a tap you need to damage the mob for a significant amout of health. At least 25% or something, that will be much fairer and stop exploiting open tapping for a single hit and reaping unearned rewards.




The player who is actually playing the game rather than just freeloading by exploiting open tapping with a single hit.



Yes, ever since fellowship groups first became available. Raiding is completely different to instances or skirmishes and not confined to them, it is frequently carried out in open world by fellowships, often organised in advance by groups of friends, or even by kins as a regular occurrence.

Here's a funny thing:

Are people who have argued that all fellowship members should get nothing unless they "contribute" to a kill (with only skills that they consider to be worthy, of course), now arguing that those who merely tap something once and run off, should get full loot?

Meanwhile, no matter how much a fellowship member is involved in a kill by using all of their skills, they shouldn't get anything unless they actually "contribute" by hitting the thing.

Absurdities just abound with this issue. The world hasn't just turned upside down, it's spinning end over end.


Rip

[Trusilver]

So I've been playing LotRO incorrectly (soloing and duoing) these past 3 years and all the "fun" I thought I was having was an illusion.

Logical fallacy

"I am the world! If something doesn't matter to me, then it shouldn't matter to anyone!" This is a mistake you have made, as I pointed out earlier, about fifty times already. And yet you keep parroting it even though there are more and more people every day that keep suggesting the same issue.

You have long since been proven incorrect on the "It's not as big of a deal as you say!" rhetoric. Find some new material.

[Kril]

Then I guess MMO developers making so much soloalble content are way off base. So I've been playing LotRO incorrectly (soloing and duoing) these past 3 years and all the "fun" I thought I was having was an illusion.

Soloable content is put into MMOs because people can not always find people working on the same content. But if you really want a game that is meant to be played solo, or with only one other person, really, you should be playing a solo game, not an MMO, and you should definately not be trolling a thread complaining that the recent changes have hurt group play, which according to you doesn't affect you.

Since you're stating duoing isn't part of that second M, I'm assuming you really don't know what it stands for...

[matthattr]

I find this compelling.

I however wouldn't consider the person outside your group as a freeloader - especially as this person took out half the monster's health, after all. He has no way of knowing that you are saving a monster for someone else. As far as he knows, there are just the two of you and he is helping out. It kind of reminds me of seat-saving in a theatre: anyone can sit anywhere according to theatre rules but at the same time there is a social convention in place so your friend can go get popcorn, come back and sit beside you. The major difference here is you can't put your coat on the monster's head to save it for your burglar buddy, and in open tapping, it's not really in accordance with the intent of the new design that you be able to do so.

I guess the only thing left I wonder about is why you and your buddy are so far apart that you're killing stuff before he is even with you. That is the sort of thing I have been talking about as adaptation to the new system that we all will be getting into a new groove for, rendering before too long this type of scenario a non-issue.

I can tell you what his burg is doing....He is what used to be called mobhogging. He is going all over the area and tapping whatever he can to draw agro and drag the mobs back to the designated killer (either through ranged burn or tanking). It USED TO denigh other players of all the mobs in that area until the burg and his buddy was through hogging. With open tapping what that burg was doing isn't nearly as agregous, since now other players (with a little hustle) can also tap that same mob and not be denighed a kill count/share.

What he was doing, FORMERLY disallowed other players from enjoying said content/area for large segments of time, now they get to both SHARE the area and content...playing to that MMORG in the process you see....

I feel a middle ground is the best solution, a "area of effect tapping", that while in group, anything that agroes a mob counts as a tap (heals, CC, debuffs..whatever) but to "share" with the group they need to be within a reasonable radius of each other. This would hold true to a group effort, it keeps them from completely denuding a area of mobs for other players, while not making non AoE,debuffers,healers rangers etc. to act out of their primary class roles. It allows a debuffer or ranger to tag a few mobs for a AoE tank etc. and share the tap between them, but not allow the ranger/debuffer to run all over the sector and hogging the mobs.

Also with a "area effect tap" that keeps those "freeloaders" others are so worried about from doing so, they can't just run/ride through and tap the mob and run on, with the group doing the heavy lifting eventually killing the mob and the "freeloader" getting the credit half a sector away. They will need to also stay in that radius to get the credit, it would keep them also tied to their taps just as the group was.

This also allows for highly efficent groups to not negatively impact other groups/soloers, if they should wander into a fight of said other group/soloer they get a tap cred and still aren't hogging it from them.

In truth, if done with a radius effect and any agro counts for all, the only possible negatively impacted person I can see is the "do it myselfer" if they should run into "thier" mob. Maybe some flag can be worked out to show on a mob if the player is in the do-it-myself mode, sort of like the AFK tag, so that a curtious player need not inadvertantly impact them as well.

[Rippentuck]

Read the threads.

Some people are asking for equal rewards for all members of a fellowship. This is fact, dispute it all you like. It will still be fact.
Some people are asking for the removal of open tapping completely. Again fact.
I am not frustrated. I am getting tired of being insulted for having an opinion on an open forum. Does that count?
I haven't put a single word in a single post. Find one and show it to me, please.
No you are 100% correct, nobody is stopping me grouping up, changing my playstyle and running Limlight Gorge. Who, precisely, is stopping fellowship players from changing their playstyle and running Rohan landscape solo? And if the answer to the second part is "nobody" (which it is) what was your point?
And the points about fairness? A response to the comments concerning fairness brought into the discussion by a pro-fellowship poster. Not me.

I want to make my own position clear here. I speak for myself, others may have their own positions which I may or may not support.

I don't mind at all if all members in a fellowship must "contribute" to get something, whether it be xp, loot or deeds. I think the concept of "contributing" is a valid one, at least in most cases. My problem here is that hitting something (and healing someone who hits it) is now considered to be the only thing worthy of earning reward. Not only does that insult me as a player of several of the excluded classes, it destroys the idea of playing your class the way it was designed, because I don't have any reason to do that anymore. Nobody does. Everything is just a disorganized zerg fest now, at least in a fellowship.

Give everyone in a fellowship equal credit if they do anything in a fight to benefit the group, including buffs, debuffs, aggro and CC. That way, people can get all the loot they want with one tap, but I get credit for what I do in a fellowship, and we're both happy.



Just a word here about "one tappers" getting full xp/loot:

Although I personally don't care what "one-tappers" get (i.e., it's not an issue for me personally), I don't understand how you can argue that that's more of a contribution than my playing my class the way it was intended to be played. Isn't using all of my skills to help my fellowship far more of a "contribution," and thus far more worthy of reward, than some clown running around hitting things once and running off? Is 10 damage (your own example) really more important than say, my burg's debuff for +10% DPS on a target, or say, a mez that saves the healer, or holding aggro for the group? Do ya see how backwards that is?


Rip

[Rippentuck]

I'm not. I never have, knowingly, done this. That would be another fact for you.

Maybe not you, but people are indeed doing this all over the place. But again, I personally don't care, as long as my own contributions to a fellowship get as much reward as that does.

By the way, I thought "one-tapper" was a pretty good term for those people, but I laughed pretty hard at "drive-by tapper." I like that term much better, lol.


Rip

[tharkun3]

MOST people don't use the forums unless they have an issue with something.

My girlfriend and I SHOULD be out doing new content right now, but we aren't. Why? Because we actually enjoy grouping our characters together rather than soloing, and this moronic new game mechanic has turned what was before a fun and enjoyable experience into an annoyance. I have to lead every single fight with my weakest attacks to make sure she can tag every mob... and then we both find ourselves doing tab,attack,tab,attack,tab,atta ck and then I, as a hunter, spend the rest the fight tanking at close range, attempting to manage aggro to keep them from overwhelming her loremaster.

An expansion that we have been looking forward to for months just turned out to be a total disappointment, all over this.

This is the gutz of the whole thing. I'm sick and tired of the people telling me why a person in my group should not get credit unless the 'tap' the mob. It is my group gad nabbit, and yes, there are work arounds to make sure people in the group get credit. But the key word in that last sentence was 'work' as in work arounds to make sure people get credit. I want to play, and this idiotic rule set that denies people in my group credit takes the fun out of it.

Man I'd be loving this expac if not for this. Now like you I spend way to much time adjusting my play style to try and make sure everyone gets credit. As do the rest of the people in my group. The result is we kill things much slower and enjoy doing so much less.

The auto looting does help. LOL that used to drive me crazy, spend twice as long trying to find the sweet spot to pick up loot as it took to kill the mobs. Now we just spend twice as long to kill the mobs so everyone gets credit but at least we don't have to spend so much time on loot.

God, can you think how sweet things would be if we had everyone getting full credit and the loot working.

When is turbine going to put this new looting in the rest of the game??

When the hec they going to fix bree housing vault area???

[Trusilver]

This is the gutz of the whole thing. I'm sick and tired of the people telling me why a person in my group should not get credit unless the 'tap' the mob. It is my group gad nabbit, and yes, there are work arounds to make sure people in the group get credit. But the key word in that last sentence was 'work' as in work arounds to make sure people get credit. I want to play, and this idiotic rule set that denies people in my group credit takes the fun out of it.

Man I'd be loving this expac if not for this. Now like you I spend way to much time adjusting my play style to try and make sure everyone gets credit. As do the rest of the people in my group. The result is we kill things much slower and enjoy doing so much less.

The auto looting does help. LOL that used to drive me crazy, spend twice as long trying to find the sweet spot to pick up loot as it took to kill the mobs. Now we just spend twice as long to kill the mobs so everyone gets credit but at least we don't have to spend so much time on loot.

+rep

I think you just said it perfectly.

[Damojo]

I want to make my own position clear here. I speak for myself, others may have their own positions which I may or may not support.

I don't mind at all if all members in a fellowship must "contribute" to get something, whether it be xp, loot or deeds. I think the concept of "contributing" is a valid one, at least in most cases. My problem here is that hitting something (and healing someone who hits it) is now considered to be the only thing worthy of earning reward. Not only does that insult me as a player of several of the excluded classes, it destroys the idea of playing your class the way it was designed, because I don't have any reason to do that anymore. Nobody does. Everything is just a disorganized zerg fest now, at least in a fellowship.

Give everyone in a fellowship equal credit if they do anything in a fight to benefit the group, including buffs, debuffs, aggro and CC. That way, people can get all the loot they want with one tap, but I get credit for what I do in a fellowship, and we're both happy.

I'm glad you speak for yourself, you should know it's not about loot. Someone will be along on a moment to shout at you for mentioning it, it's all about quests and deeds, not loot.

It looks so simple to just make anything and everything count as a tap. I doubt it will be. The fact that DPS and heals are the only things which do count is in my belief no accident. They are the things pre-Rohan which would cause a mob to attack, and I imagine the same or similar logic is being used. Change some of the debuffs, for example, to cause a tap, and I can see my Loremaster in Moria having a very bad day, casting a sign of power and being attacked immediately. And not just my Loremaster, everyones. I believe this would be a Bad Thing. It is I have no doubt a thorny issue for Turbine, but I do believe that open tapping is here to stay. They wouldn't spend time and money developing it to just discard the whole thing. I believe the way forward for the whole issue is to come to a compromise solution which has been carefully thought through, not just to have a blanket "everything counts" rule. The consequences of changing which skills put players on a mob's hate list could be very far reaching.

Although I personally don't care what "one-tappers" get (i.e., it's not an issue for me personally), I don't understand how you can argue that that's more of a contribution than my playing my class the way it was intended to be played. Isn't using all of my skills to help my fellowship far more of a "contribution," and thus far more worthy of reward, than some clown running around hitting things once and running off? Is 10 damage (your own example) really more important than say, my burg's debuff for +10% DPS on a target, or say, a mez that saves the healer, or holding aggro for the group? Do ya see how backwards that is?

My view is exactly as I stated. I picked 10 damage for a reason, it's a very insignificant amount. But in terms of me as a solo player fighting a mob, someone doing that 10 damage and disappearing has done more to help me kill the mob than someone who has buffed another of their fellowship members. That buff is internal to the fellowship, it doesn't damage the mob, distract it, do anything to it. And I think that's where I personally (I don't speak for Turbine or the solo community) would draw the line; "internal" fellowship skills should not count as a tap, they don't directly affect the mob. The external skills which are not currently counted - like a stun, mez, debuff - I could happily see as a contribution, they directly affect the mob and are helpful to non-fellowship players engaging the same mob, in the same way DPS is. I'll repeat, however, my warning from above, changing how these things work in the threat/aggro matrix will potentially affect much more than whether a tap has been registered.

[Lohi]

Everyone is now doing this, even me. And why not?

I do it a little, but I do try to avoid it unless I'm going to stick around and help with the rest of the fight,. I don't like the drive-by style.

However I have noticed myself feeling guilty in one regard. I like using the heavy steed Trample skill. It does a knockback and a small bleed on unmounted enemies. I just like to use them as bowling pins. However a couple times so far I've used Trample while someone else is attacking while on foot, and the enemy goes flying 20 feet and the other player then has to run to get back into melee range. Oops!

So my apologies to any players who've seen their enemies get knocked away from them while a dwarf laughing maniacally rides past on a comet.

[Rippentuck]

I'm glad you speak for yourself, you should know it's not about loot. Someone will be along on a moment to shout at you for mentioning it, it's all about quests and deeds, not loot.

It looks so simple to just make anything and everything count as a tap. I doubt it will be. The fact that DPS and heals are the only things which do count is in my belief no accident. They are the things pre-Rohan which would cause a mob to attack, and I imagine the same or similar logic is being used. Change some of the debuffs, for example, to cause a tap, and I can see my Loremaster in Moria having a very bad day, casting a sign of power and being attacked immediately. And not just my Loremaster, everyones. I believe this would be a Bad Thing. It is I have no doubt a thorny issue for Turbine, but I do believe that open tapping is here to stay. They wouldn't spend time and money developing it to just discard the whole thing. I believe the way forward for the whole issue is to come to a compromise solution which has been carefully thought through, not just to have a blanket "everything counts" rule. The consequences of changing which skills put players on a mob's hate list could be very far reaching.

I'm not talking about making all skills cause aggro, I'm talking about making them all count as contributions, which until now, they always have. And don't forget, they spent lots of time and money developing the Radiance system, and they didn't just tweak that, they removed it entirely. You don't think they'd simply change something that breaks a system that has existed for 5+ years? This objection doesn't factor into the equation. There's no reason to fear the restoration of a particular feature that has always existed and worked just fine.

My view is exactly as I stated. I picked 10 damage for a reason, it's a very insignificant amount. But in terms of me as a solo player fighting a mob, someone doing that 10 damage and disappearing has done more to help me kill the mob than someone who has buffed another of their fellowship members. That buff is internal to the fellowship, it doesn't damage the mob, distract it, do anything to it. And I think that's where I personally (I don't speak for Turbine or the solo community) would draw the line; "internal" fellowship skills should not count as a tap, they don't directly affect the mob. The external skills which are not currently counted - like a stun, mez, debuff - I could happily see as a contribution, they directly affect the mob and are helpful to non-fellowship players engaging the same mob, in the same way DPS is. I'll repeat, however, my warning from above, changing how these things work in the threat/aggro matrix will potentially affect much more than whether a tap has been registered.

Okay, so I interpret this to mean that you're down to just buffs not being worthy of contribution, and more or less everything else being worthy (with exceptions, I'm sure), although I feel the need to point out that you came awfully close to saying that support classes have no reason to even exist. You have, unfortunately, pretty much said that buff classes (or buffs in particular) have no reason to exist, because they're worth less to you than a guy poking a mob once.

I don't play a "buffer" but I'll give a brief answer (maybe those who do play them can chime in). You know, of course, that buffs add to various stats, right? Some of those buffs cause the "killers" to do more damage than they otherwise would. They can also help the killers survive better so they can kill more mobs. These kinds of things are why they are so popular in raids, and sometimes even in landscape content. How are all of these things less important than some guy hitting something once and running off?

I don't see how you can cling to the idea that the basis for some classes are not as important as even a single ding of dps.


Rip

[Damojo]

I have not said buffs or buff classes have no reason to exist, please don't put words in my mouth.

I'll explain one more time, and then I'll give up, I can only explain the same thing so many times.

I'm standing on a rock, playing my hunter. There is an orc nearby just out of aggro range. I kill the orc, I get the credit.

Next to me are a hunter and captain from the same fellowship. The orc respawns, I hit it again, so does the fellowship hunter. We both get credit. No problems with that whatsoever.

The orc respawns, I engage it, the captain buffs the hunter, I get a dev crit and the orc dies without the fellowship hunter engaging it. I get the credit. Should the captain get any reward, should he/she be deemed to have "tapped"? I presume we can agree the fellowship hunter has no claim?

You can pretty much put the drive-by into any or all of these scenarios, he/she still does 10 damage. 10 more than the captain does. 10 more than the hunter does in the third example. And so has helped kill the orc.

If the captain had done something to the orc i.e. external to the fellowship, as far as I am concerned that player would have an equal contribution to either hunter or the drive-by. Because their buff was internal, and didn't affect the orc, I don't see that it is. I don't see how the buff affected me, the orc, or the drive-by. So why should it be rewarded?

[Trusilver]

I have not said buffs are or buff classes have no reason to exist, please don't put words in my mouth.

I'll explain one more time, and then I'll give up, I can only explain the same thing so many times.

I'm standing on a rock, playing my hunter. There is an orc nearby just out of aggro range. I kill the orc, I get the credit.

Next to me are a hunter and captain from the same fellowship. The orc respawns, I hit it again, so does the fellowship hunter. We both get credit. No problems with that whatsoever.

The orc respawns, I engage it, the captain buffs the hunter, I get a dev crit and the orc dies without the fellowship hunter engaging it. I get the credit. Should the captain get any reward, should he/she be deemed to have "tapped"? I presume we can agree the fellowship hunter has no claim?

You can pretty much put the drive-by into any or all of these scenarios, he/she still does 10 damage. 10 more than the captain does. 10 more than the hunter does in the third example. And so has helped kill the orc.

If the captain had done something to the orc i.e. external to the fellowship, as far as I am concerned that player would have an equal contribution to either hunter or the drive-by. Because their buff was internal, and didn't affect the orc, I don't see that it is. I don't see how the buff affected me, the orc, or the drive-by. So why should it be rewarded?

I certainly understand the line of reason you are taking here, and I more or less am in agreement with some of it.

The breakdown in logic occurs when this line of reasoning automatically leads to decreased overall xp, look and quest advancement for non-dps classes. On a case by case basis, it's easy to say "well, just hit the mob lol!". In reality, over a large sampling of cases, the total experience for a DPS class is going to be substantially less than for a support class. Why is this? For a multitude of reasons.

In multiple enemy scenarios, a tank is going to be holding aggro against a certain enemy rather than focusing on a group. While the rest of the fellowship is taking care of the other mobs, he is only getting for the ones he is personally damaging which, if he is focused on holding aggro, will not be the entirety of the group. Result = reduced xp for tanks even though they are doing their part.

In fellowships involving a mix of ranged and melee classes, the ranged classes are almost guaranteed to defeat a number of the mobs before the melee classes are in range to attack. Result = reduced xp for melee classes even though they are doing their part.

In multiple enemy scenarios involving healers... if the healer is focused on healing and waiting for the need to use abilities beyond the time needed to kill the first mobs, he loses experience for those. Any halfway decent healer i know isn't going to be spamming heals from the onset of the fight in an effort to minimize threat. The alternative means that all healers now better b e prepared to tank, because spamming unneeded heals for the purpose of tagging means they are opening themselves up to aggro that they wouldn't have otherwise. Result = reduced xp for healers even though they are doing their part.

In AOE vs non AOE fellowships, the AOE classes are rapidly tapping and defeating large numbers of mobs while the non AOE classes are forgoing any attempt to play their class normally, and instead just focusing on tagging as many of the mobs as possible before they are gone. Result = reduced xp for non AOE players even though they are doing their part.

In DPS vs support fellowships, the DPS is ALWAYS going to be dealing larger amounts of damage faster than the support character can and therefore mobs will fall through the cracks the the support doesn't tag before they are killed. Result = reduced xp for support classes even though they are doing their part.

In every single case above, do I think that those people are giving a more valid contribution than a drive-by hunter that does 200 damage? You bet I do.


The question is... should every support class in the game be automatically penalized for playing their class as it was designed? Everyone who says that you are only contributing if you dps or heal a dps'er obviously believes so.

[maxjenius]

I do it a little, but I do try to avoid it unless I'm going to stick around and help with the rest of the fight,. I don't like the drive-by style.

You can't drive by too far, though. You could hit a monster then stand around waiting 'til it's dead, but that sounds rather boring (and time-wasting, since you could move on to the next target).

Tests I did earlier tonight, because some have claimed healing does not count towards tapping in a Fellowship.

I was playing a Rune-keeper in a duo.

1. In Fellowship, set up healing stone before combat, did nothing else to the monster or the other character, got credit.
2. In Fellowship, cast HoT before combat, other character went into combat before HoT wore off, I did nothing else, got credit.
3. Out of Fellowship, cast HoT before combat, other character went into combat before HoT wore off, I did nothing else, got credit.

If there are healing situations where people are claiming to not be getting credit for tapping, in or out of Fellowship, I'm curious to see what they are.

[Tharnadar]

So, just so everyone is aware, we've passed along the thoughts and opinions here to the team, and they will be discussing it. However, the current implementation of the system (the "you must contribute in order to get credit, regardless of fellowship") is intended by design. But, they will be looking at it and discussing it due to the conversations that have come up here.

With that said, I'm going to move this thread into the suggestions forum, as it is a suggestion to change a current aspect of the game. Everyone is certainly encouraged to continue to add their thoughts and opinions in this thread, so we can continue to keep track of the conversation.

You're wrong Celestrata... this thread should be in Bug Tracker, because this is a huuuuuge bug, in other words a "regression", an unexpected behaviour, go into your Team Foundation Server, click New Bug and add this one please!

[MikaHR]

Easy solution (based o nmajority of complaints):

Fellowship is one entity for quest updates ONLY, for anything else ( xp/loot/deeds) you have to contribute.

[Klinkhamer]

I do understand the open tapping system out in the open-world areas and even smaller caves. But if this thing with fellowship is meant to be, I surely hope it will be a totally different system in "real" instances, imagine the poor classes that has other things todo than just dps the mobs, they wont get any cred for it?

[MikaHR]

I do understand the open tapping system out in the open-world areas and even smaller caves. But if this thing with fellowship is meant to be, I surely hope it will be a totally different system in "real" instances, imagine the poor classes that has other things todo than just dps the mobs, they wont get any cred for it?

Instances that you mention (real, but thats pretty misguided, solo instances are "real" fully as any other and i would love to see some "real" solo instances) are group content and it will be designed to work as group content. Landscape content in RoR is solo content with system that makes everyone grouped at all times.

[Klinkhamer]

Instances that you mention (real, but thats pretty misguided, solo instances are "real" fully as any other and i would love to see some "real" solo instances) are group content and it will be designed to work as group content. Landscape content in RoR is solo content with system that makes everyone grouped at all times.

I am aware of the bad wording in this. I am fully aware of that solo instances are as real as any other instance. What I mean with real is simply instances that is something else than the things you run into during the regular quest-chain. I hope I did not offend anyone by using this word.

[Pasoth]

You can't drive by too far, though. You could hit a monster then stand around waiting 'til it's dead, but that sounds rather boring (and time-wasting, since you could move on to the next target).

Tests I did earlier tonight, because some have claimed healing does not count towards tapping in a Fellowship.

I was playing a Rune-keeper in a duo.

1. In Fellowship, set up healing stone before combat, did nothing else to the monster or the other character, got credit.
2. In Fellowship, cast HoT before combat, other character went into combat before HoT wore off, I did nothing else, got credit.
3. Out of Fellowship, cast HoT before combat, other character went into combat before HoT wore off, I did nothing else, got credit.

1. your rock tapped for you, once the player tapped the mob and a rock tick went off. Rock is actually way OP in this issue. Its like having constant raging blades.

2. Same as the rock.

3. same HoTs.

Any ticks before a tap don't count. its only after a tap. Watch a heal with a slower hot. When it ticks you will get added. I have stated many many times that HoTs are way too much of an advantage in this system. Its actually one of the best ways to do a driveby, because all new taps by the Champ A will be added upon a tick to RK B, even though RK B healed them for a measly 50 morale.

Try with epic for the ages(if/when you would actually use it is beside the point, you want to test, test without HoTs, not all heals have included HoTs). Grab two mobs, build your attunement. Let all HoTs stop. Get your friend to tap one mob. heal them with Epic. You will only get one tap. Now get them to Kill the other mob and you miss out on the second mob, even though you kept them alive. That is how bolster courage works, Coda(melody), Triumphant Spirit(I think, it may have a HoT now I forget), Some Horse heals.

AoE and HoTs are way too unbalancing to the classes that don't have these in a fellowship tapping situation. Everyone else is left to spam tab attack tab attack. Which is not playing your class, It is playing to the mechanic.

[Pasoth]

*repost from petition thread*

A heal hits a champ A with 5 mobs:

1: If champ A has Tapped all the targets prior to the heal: A heal will tap all mobs

2: If champ A has Tapped some of the mobs prior to the heal: A heal will tap some of the mobs

3: If champ A has Tapped 1 of the mobs prior to the heal: A heal will tap 1 of the mobs

If the heal has no HoT ticks. that is how the tapping will remain, until the healer heals again or Attacks or Mobs die.

If there are HoT ticks, any new Champ A tap prior to a HoT tick will then add the healer to the contribution list.

Heals only tap, Tapped targets at the time of the heal. Mobs can die between taps without credit where credit is due.