Forced emotes - worse than ever

[Zunai]

I've been reading throught this thread and agree wholeheartedly that an opt-out toggle is needed. While personally, I've found the forced emotes largely annoying and fairly ridiculous since they were first implemented, until recently I didn't really consider them game-breaking. Though irritated when targeted, generally I would just grumble and move on with my game play. Within minutes, I would again be immersed in the game and have forgotten the bothersome incident. However, a recent experience took that irritation to a new level and I no longer view them merely as minor annoyances.

I was in the process of entering an instance when I was hit by whatever forced emote it is that creates the cloud of black birds around you. Granted, the other player had no way of realizing what I was doing and the mere fact that I appeared to be just standing there doing nothing no doubt made me a prime and easy target. And, that should have been the end of it. However, since the forced emote took effect as I was entering the instance, the sound from it followed me in and proceeded to loop continuously (yes, I bugged it). While, technically, the sound didn't stop me from continuing the instance as normal, it was exceedingly annoying and extremely distracting. After a couple of minutes, I had no choice but to exit, leaving the instance unfinished. Back in landscape the noise continued and I then had to log out and back in to stop it. Fortunately, I was playing solo at the time, so the only one inconvenienced was me. Had I been grouped, everyone else would have been stuck waiting for me to correct this problem created by someone I not only didn't know but never even saw.

This is not the only time a forced emote has caused a bug like this, though it was certainly the most memorable. There have been other incidents where my husband and I were playing and a forced emote caused a need for one of us to log out and back in to regain proper control of our character and environment. It doesn't happen often, but it DOES happen. These types of incidents are more than just a momentary break in game play and significantly interfere with our ability to immerse and enjoy ourselves.

Personally, I feel anything that allows other players to interrupt your own enjoyment of the game, even briefly, should be entirely voluntary. Just as PvP and sparring are things we can participate in by choice, so should be the case with forced emotes. Please, Turbine, stop giving other players the unbridled ability to spoil our fun. All we are requesting is the ability to turn this nuisance off and go on with our gaming unmolested. Is that so much to ask?

[Ferthcott]

Prevention is always better than cure.
The retribution paradigm suffers from flaws, chief among them being that an unwanted act (from the target's point of view) must occur before vigilante justice can be administered. It depends on the hope that the instigator of the un-appreciated activity will modify their behavior after repeated doses of retribution.

Not just hope - unless Turbine develops and offers an opt - out (or changes GM policies so eg. FE abusers are banned on the spot with nuclear mushroom emote added), you cannot hope for *any* modification of behavior of those who are hell - bent on using FE maliciously and have more than two brain cells working - same goes about their state of mind or motivation. However, with an equivalent of "go to rez circle, do not collect 5p" you are significantly modifying how often such events occur. And if the amount of time required to run back from rez circle exceeds actual pranking time by far, you can also hope for reduction of pranking in general as it becomes more like a job. And all of this with additional content added - Counter - emote

Whether it happens through coding new way out or through modification of existing stuff, whether it is that "suicidal PvP flag" or something else entirely, it would still be better than another instance of barring already existing content. Heck, if it's cheaper, I would approve combining two issues instead of "fixing" anything and allowing you to release Homing Avanc in 5s window after being emoted

whether or not those in the area have earned/purchased the retributive capability.

Oh, yeah. This is, sadly, easier and easier to expect. 500 TP for Emote to rull them all instead of an opt - out. Considering Turbine might be more than happy to monetize bare opt - out as well, I'd rather see something positive, even with possible problems and bugs on its own.

The retribution method may provide some short term euphoria for the vigilante, but it is not the solution. Retribution, as I said about another proposed solution, is the equivalent of a new legal statute, or law, which is ignorable or breakable at will. While it may dissuade some players from engaging in the specified activity, it can only mitigate, not solve, the problem. However, since this world is virtual, Turbine/WB has the ability to instead create a natural law, preventing the unwanted activity before it happens, and changing "this shouldn't be done" to the selected target into "this can't be done".

Oh, very significant part of the content can be already defined as various short - term euphoria providers. Some are even designed this way on purpose *cough* Hytbold *cough*
/sarcasm

There is no argument against "natural law" option you mentioned being far more complete solution - IF your solution is simply spending resources on developing naked opt - out for content you technically *want* to be used. The question is, what is Turbine willing to do based on... well... rather bloated threads that have been appearing for *months*. So far - not even a hint. One could wonder why.

Is the outrage *really* that common?
Is forum campaign representing feelings of more than few dozens?
Is this issue serious enough on its own to grant it a valid spot in development queue?
How much issues would be easily solved without a single line of code if official player events were placed under GM protection as a token of appreciation from Turbine for people who are doing their job by providing additional content?
Or this one: how much substance will be left if you filter out dozen people arguing in most of those threads and inflating their actual significance?

I disagree. Though maybe you should quit if the game is giving you such a horrible outlook on things you are obviously not happy here.

When I report harassment I also add the person to my friends list with a note that they are a harasser. Amazing how many of them just poofed over time. I am no naive enough to believe my report is the only reason they got actioned or quit but I do have the satisfaction of knowing it was one more nail in the coffin.

Pretty much this. It matters not whether an action is taken after your or mine ticket. But if enough of tickets are filled, Turbine is far more likely to take action. Their inaction might very well point towards *not enough tickets being filled* - so again: not enough people giving a damn. With Draigoch they at least... tried :P

[Isharra]

I've been reading throught this thread and agree wholeheartedly that an opt-out toggle is needed. While personally, I've found the forced emotes largely annoying and fairly ridiculous since they were first implemented, until recently I didn't really consider them game-breaking. Though irritated when targeted, generally I would just grumble and move on with my game play. Within minutes, I would again be immersed in the game and have forgotten the bothersome incident. However, a recent experience took that irritation to a new level and I no longer view them merely as minor annoyances.

I was in the process of entering an instance when I was hit by whatever forced emote it is that creates the cloud of black birds around you. Granted, the other player had no way of realizing what I was doing and the mere fact that I appeared to be just standing there doing nothing no doubt made me a prime and easy target. And, that should have been the end of it. However, since the forced emote took effect as I was entering the instance, the sound from it followed me in and proceeded to loop continuously (yes, I bugged it). While, technically, the sound didn't stop me from continuing the instance as normal, it was exceedingly annoying and extremely distracting. After a couple of minutes, I had no choice but to exit, leaving the instance unfinished. Back in landscape the noise continued and I then had to log out and back in to stop it. Fortunately, I was playing solo at the time, so the only one inconvenienced was me. Had I been grouped, everyone else would have been stuck waiting for me to correct this problem created by someone I not only didn't know but never even saw.

This is not the only time a forced emote has caused a bug like this, though it was certainly the most memorable. There have been other incidents where my husband and I were playing and a forced emote caused a need for one of us to log out and back in to regain proper control of our character and environment. It doesn't happen often, but it DOES happen. These types of incidents are more than just a momentary break in game play and significantly interfere with our ability to immerse and enjoy ourselves.

Personally, I feel anything that allows other players to interrupt your own enjoyment of the game, even briefly, should be entirely voluntary. Just as PvP and sparring are things we can participate in by choice, so should be the case with forced emotes. Please, Turbine, stop giving other players the unbridled ability to spoil our fun. All we are requesting is the ability to turn this nuisance off and go on with our gaming unmolested. Is that so much to ask?

It sounds like the item effects were bugging out and that it was the bug that was bugging you more than anything else. *goes bug-eyed*

[Orlor]

Actually no I do have another option.

If they hit me with a FE once I ask them to stop politely.
If the same person hits me again I ask them to stop a bit less politely.
If the same person hits me again I report for harassment.

Eventually the person will have enough harassment reports on them that some action will be taken. I won't know what or when but I have the satisfaction of knowing there is a punishment volcano and every report against them for anything will eventually add up to something.

Dream on. On Landroval, we had one individual who's only reason for existence was to grief RPer's with FE's. He would grief them and then boast about it on the chat channels. He even had a kin that he would advertise on the chat channels as a kin to grief RPer's. He's had a the least a hundred tickets filed against him and guess what? Nothing happened. He was free to continue grief all summer long. People would file tickets against him only to have them closed within a minute with some people actually getting infractions for filing tickets against him.

In short, the GM's no longer care.

[forceofnone]

Some folks don't think that WB/T listens, they do. They just don't listen and do what's <right> they do what's profitable.

This statement is demonstrably false. Sure, people object to paying TP just to be free of forced emotes. But, Turbine could easily profit from selling those same victims an I'm-rubber-you're-glue item that reflected any forced emote back on the caster. I know I'd pay for that. Right and profitable don't have to be that different if a company is any good at making money.

[Zunai]

It sounds like the item effects were bugging out and that it was the bug that was bugging you more than anything else. *goes bug-eyed*

Agreed. However, the forced emotes did "bug" me even before this happened, I just tried to keep them from interfering with my game play anymore than they already had. In other words, I don't like them but refuse to give them more power over me than they already have. Tougher to do when forced to log out in order to resume normal game play, though I still try.

And I still feel an opt-out option is appropriate even if events like the aforementioned cease to occur.

[Krysstofur]

I try to stay mounted as much as possible. However I have found these FEers now hang around stables waiting to get you when you have to dismount to purchase a ride. I dismounted at a busy mailbox so my Heavy warhorse wasn't taking up as much space, the moment I did, FMed (my reward for trying to be polite). If nothing is going to be done about these FMs at least give the rest of us some tools to resist this disruptive game mechanic. If one could purchase a ride without dismounting that may help. And if it would take some manner of Store revenue idea to get turbine to act on this, I'd spend TP for immunity. Not in any way what I'd consider a good way to address the issue, but I'd bite.

[Kaedian66]

Everyone wins in a scenario where there is a toggle or some check box to click.

This right here. The most elegant solution is oft times the simplest.

[whheydt]

While I agree with the sentiment that an "opt out" should be a free game feature (after all, Turbine created the problem, it should be on their dime to fix it), I would be willing to pay TP for an account-level "opt out" control.

To that end, I propose the following:

For 1000TP, an account-wide Forced Emote Opt Out control. This would affect *all* current and future forced emotes, including all class skill forced emotes.

For 2000TP, you get the above opt out control PLUS an option to reflect forced emotes back on their users, including reflecting all class skill forced emotes.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

[Lestache]

While I agree with the sentiment that an "opt out" should be a free game feature (after all, Turbine created the problem, it should be on their dime to fix it), I would be willing to pay TP for an account-level "opt out" control.

To that end, I propose the following:

For 1000TP, an account-wide Forced Emote Opt Out control. This would affect *all* current and future forced emotes, including all class skill forced emotes.

For 2000TP, you get the above opt out control PLUS an option to reflect forced emotes back on their users, including reflecting all class skill forced emotes.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I'd love to see the 2nd option implemented, if only to see if an infinite loop would slip through testing that resulted in two people bouncing the forced cheer from Boast back and forth. (...or the kneeling from Command Respect, or an impromptu dance contest thanks to Irresistible Melody.)

[manstan]

While I agree with the sentiment that an "opt out" should be a free game feature (after all, Turbine created the problem, it should be on their dime to fix it), I would be willing to pay TP for an account-level "opt out" control.

To that end, I propose the following:

For 1000TP, an account-wide Forced Emote Opt Out control. This would affect *all* current and future forced emotes, including all class skill forced emotes.

For 2000TP, you get the above opt out control PLUS an option to reflect forced emotes back on their users, including reflecting all class skill forced emotes.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Some how I doubt that the money they would make from it would out way the loss of players because of it. I would be gone and not return. I'm not paying turbine to opt out of a problem they created.

That would similar to some one walking up to your car with a hammer, knocking a bunch of dents in it, then handing you their car body shop card.

[Lestache]

Some how I doubt that the money they would make from it would out way the loss of players because of it. I would be gone and not return. I'm not paying turbine to opt out of a problem they created.

That would similar to some walking up to your car with a hammer, knocking a bunch of dents, in it then handing you their car body shop card.

Shhh. You're going to clue people in to how my window repair business works. Pay no attention to the part of the ledger titled "Rock Thrower Compensation".

[Krysstofur]

Some how I doubt that the money they would make from it would out way the loss of players because of it. I would be gone and not return. I'm not paying turbine to opt out of a problem they created.

That would similar to some walking up to your car with a hammer, knocking a bunch of dents, in it then handing you their car body shop card.

As stated I do not consider having to pay TP to make this go away was a GOOD idea, just one I'd be willing to use should it ever be offered. IDK why Turbine is so attached to leaving this issue alone, but thought maybe if the dollar signs could be percieved they would act on it to create some form of control. Can't say I agree with the aformention rate, but I would sure consider that reflect option.

[maxjenius]

IDK why Turbine is so attached to leaving this issue alone, but thought maybe if the dollar signs could be percieved they would act on it to create some form of control.

My take is that someone important thought they were a real rip-snorter of a cracker-jack good idea and is incredulous the entire player base is not totally enamored with them.

Can't say I agree with the aformention rate, but I would sure consider that reflect option.

The problem with reflecting them is that it makes the "reflector" just as childish as the original user.

[slayer7800]

I try to stay mounted as much as possible. However I have found these FEers now hang around stables waiting to get you when you have to dismount to purchase a ride. I dismounted at a busy mailbox so my Heavy warhorse wasn't taking up as much space, the moment I did, FMed (my reward for trying to be polite). If nothing is going to be done about these FMs at least give the rest of us some tools to resist this disruptive game mechanic. If one could purchase a ride without dismounting that may help. And if it would take some manner of Store revenue idea to get turbine to act on this, I'd spend TP for immunity. Not in any way what I'd consider a good way to address the issue, but I'd bite.

I always have my characters mounted now while idle. So while I rarely am a victim of this anymore, when I wander around town this is always in the back of my mind. I am playing this game for enjoyment and this takes a small amount away from me. So it seems really short sighted to me that Turbine wouldn't allow on opt out here.

[whheydt]

Some how I doubt that the money they would make from it would out way the loss of players because of it. I would be gone and not return. I'm not paying turbine to opt out of a problem they created.

That would similar to some one walking up to your car with a hammer, knocking a bunch of dents in it, then handing you their car body shop card.

What you say is true...as far as it goes. However, Turbine has already been down that path once and it appears to have worked. Think about the proliferation of tokens...rep, festival, etc., etc...that can now be put in the premium wallet--which costs 995TP. Does clear a lot of pack and vault space, though...

On the BR thread about the hobby horse, Turbine solicited suggestions for Shop items.

I floated 1KTP for a forced emote op out...but with some conditions attached if I'm going to have to *pay* for it...

1. Account wide.

2. Forced emotes deeds *don't* advance when my character is a target (after all, I will have *paid* for the immunity, which is more that the forced emoter has done).

3. Cover *all* current and future forced emotes, including class forced emotes.

4. Suppresses forced emote actions in a 20 meter radius around the character with the opt out in effect.

I think there were a couple of other points that don't come to mind immediately. IF you want the full list...go read the Hobby Horse thread in the BR Forum.

Basically...If I pay, I want to add conditions. If it's free...I don't care what it does (or doesn't do) other than render my characters immune to forced emotes.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Curmudgeon

[Dworin]

Some how I doubt that the money they would make from it would out way the loss of players because of it. I would be gone and not return. I'm not paying turbine to opt out of a problem they created.

That would similar to some one walking up to your car with a hammer, knocking a bunch of dents in it, then handing you their car body shop card.

Yep.
The day I have to buy an opt-out from the store is the last day I will play LotRO.

[monteeburns]

Yep.
The day I have to buy an opt-out from the store is the last day I will play LotRO.

I'm not sure it's all that far down the road from adding xp for crafting, while adding an XP disabler to the store. I agree, it would be an absolutely scumbag move, but the fact that people are actually debating whether Turbine would charge for it says a lot. I'm pretty skeptical of Turbine's motives in general, but I'd be suprised to see them stoop that low.
I think the trouble is, and this applies across the board, that Lotro players are far too forgiving in general because of the IP. For every person that sticks to their principles and would walk away, there would be 10 who would put up with it, and say 'well, Turbine are just giving you another choice, no-one is forcing you to buy it'. That wouldn't be the point of course, but I suspect that would be what would happen. Some would leave because of it, many less principled would pay for it, setting an extremely bad precedent for the future.

[Scarycrow]

When U9 goes live you'll have a stage outside the prancing pony with the Serious Business hotspot so you can play music in peace without any of those pesky forced emotes.

[Mirarian]

when u9 goes live you'll have a stage outside the prancing pony with the serious business hotspot so you can play music in peace without any of those pesky forced emotes.

yay!
Ty ty ty

[Lestache]

When U9 goes live you'll have a stage outside the prancing pony with the Serious Business hotspot so you can play music in peace without any of those pesky forced emotes.

Very good news for the music players.

I'm sure that they'll respond when they pick themselves up off the floor.

[mr_toad]

I cna't stand forced emotes. Give me a gameplay settings option that allows me to check a box "Disable the effects of forced emotes." Give everyone what they want.

[monteeburns]

When U9 goes live you'll have a stage outside the prancing pony with the Serious Business hotspot so you can play music in peace without any of those pesky forced emotes.

Can I still throw rotten fruit when drunken bagpipe players stumble out of the pony onto the stage and start wailing some hideous noise, or will I have to wait till they get off stage to express my appreciation of their atonal dirges? Such behaviour should not go unpunished.

Edit: As 'serious business' is active in frostbluff and the rotten fruit is allowed, and isn't a FE anyway, it seems the answer is yes, which is nice.

[Fortinobrand]

When U9 goes live you'll have a stage outside the prancing pony with the Serious Business hotspot so you can play music in peace without any of those pesky forced emotes.

Thanks, better than nothing, but things should be the other way around -- lore-appropriate activities should be the default, and things that just don't fit in the game (like forced emotes) should be in specific isolated spots.

[whheydt]

When U9 goes live you'll have a stage outside the prancing pony with the Serious Business hotspot so you can play music in peace without any of those pesky forced emotes.

Better than nothing, but you need calculus to discern how much better than nothing.

You guys have had 2 years since this issue was brought up and people started asking for an opt out. It took 2 years to develop and then remove Radiance...a much bigger and more complex system.

How about some relief for the rest of us in the rest of the world? (Last time I got hit with a forced emote was at the Harwick Stable....lots of good a "serious business" de-buff in front of the Prancing Pony is going to do me...)

Sorry...this change strikes me a very, very small sop to just one single group that is adversely affected. Turbine...you CAN do better.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer