Forced emotes - worse than ever

[Mirarian]

This is aimed at the folks who are adamant that FE's cannot be griefing.

Scenario: I am standing in a public place engaging in a bit of RP with a family member. (Something I do often).

Someone comes and hits us with a FE disrupting our RP.

I politely ask them to stop and resume our RP.

They hit us again as soon as the Cool down is over even though they have been asked to stop.

I ask them again to stop and resume our RP.

They hit us again as soon as the Cool down is over.

At this point it is obvious they are not going to stop. We have 2 choices left to us. Give up on our RP or move to another location. In either case they have disrupted our gameplay and that by definition makes it greifing.

Most of us in this thread are NOT asking that the FE toys be removed. We are asking to be permitted to opt out while you the FE person still get the deed incrementation.

[Rampagingdeath]

ack, double post

[Rampagingdeath]

I think the 18,207 views as I checked this thread kinda indicates that there is more than a minority interested in this, even if they are not commenting.

Er, theres over 15 thousand views on a thread about 1 quest that isn't working, puts that into perspective a little.

[manstan]

Your opinion is not my opinion so your opinion is wrong.

That is the summation of this, as well as a few other threads. There are scant few facts on ether side being brought up here, it is all fairly well all opinions. Your arguments trying to prove me wrong can't, because you can't prove an opinion wrong. Argue all you want, it's all personal opinions. Your argument is not going to change my opinion any more then my argument will change your.

People that don't have an issue with FEs wont ever be able to understand why some people find them irritating, and vise versa. I don't understand why people don't find them irritating. Doesn't make ether side right or wrong, just differing in opinion.

What does all this brake down to? As I said a few posts back, there are people that just want to opt out of forced emotes because they find them irritating. Then there are those that don't want their targets to be able to defend themselves. The issue wrapped up in yet another nutshell.

[Rampagingdeath]

Your opinion is not my opinion so your opinion is wrong.

That is the summation of this, as well as a few other threads. There are scant few facts on ether side being brought up here, it is all fairly well all opinions. Your arguments trying to prove me wrong can't, because you can't prove an opinion wrong. Argue all you want, it's all personal opinions. Your argument is not going to change my opinion any more then my argument will change your.

People that don't have an issue with FEs wont ever be able to understand why some people find them irritating, and vise versa. I don't understand why people don't find them irritating. Doesn't make ether side right or wrong, just differing in opinion.

What does all this brake down to? As I said a few posts back, there are people that just want to opt out of forced emotes because they find them irritating. Then there are those that don't want their targets to be able to defend themselves. The issue wrapped up in yet another nutshell.

Best close the thread and delete the internet then, his holiness has spoken.

[manstan]

Best close the thread and delete the internet then, his holiness has spoken.

How can you possibly have issues with a non-argument? Are you really that desperate for an argument?

[monteeburns]

It sounded more like one of those opinions you were just talking about than an argument

[PerinStone]

I am positive if J RR Tolkien were to be able to see the stick horse he would not approve,

Let's not kid ourselves, Tolkein would hate the game to begin with.

I'll buy the "small minority" part if you can present hard data showing that that claim is true.

And I'll buy its not a small minority when you can provide data. It works both ways.

Technical issues aside (about which we would all be merely speculating), there's no downside to a toggle.

Which leads me to believe the technical issues are a lot more difficult than all of the arm chair programmers here think.

Can you imagine one doing the Beacon of Eaworth and get hit by a force emote which make you fall? Right there at the last step?

And you bring this up why? Are you claiming this is occuring?

[manstan]

" there are people that just want to opt out of forced emotes because they find them irritating. Then there are those that don't want their targets to be able to defend themselves."

That isn't an opinion, that is the crux of the entire argument here. The verbiage may be biasedly skewed, but that doesn't change that this entire argument is just people that want an opt out, and those that don't want them to have an opt out.

[Gripn]

We are always reading and listening to feedback, trust me. Nothing gets "forgotten," but everything has a priority and sometimes things can take a long time. Personally, I'll still follow 'heated' threads and read the suggestions, but I tend not to comment to avoid devastating damage X.X

Thank you, Scarycrow. Your efforts are appreciated.

[Felajarko]

It sounded more like one of those opinions you were just talking about than an argument

More of a jab at an opinion that he hopes will lead to an argument. Rampagingdeath is hoping manstan will stop his calm, yet biased explanation of the issue and argue with him more. hence the name calling and the jab.

@manstan: you are close. The people who like FEs want to keep using them on everyone. Some even support the toggle. But there is the camp that doesn't want to see resources allocated to implementing it. The people who hate the FEs want the toggle. But there is a camp that wants them gone completely. The middle ground is implement a toggle but fix other issues first. the problem lies in the opinion of which problems are more important.

[monteeburns]

the problem lies in the opinion of which problems are more important.

This thread goes around and around and around and ends up again where it started, so once more I shall join the fun, contribute to the farce and say what's already been said before, as has become the tradition for this joyous thread ( that isn't addressed at your comment, just in general )

Anyone who plays an MMO knows that their particular bugbear isn't always going to be at the top of the priority list. It could be raiding, PvP, housing, kinship upgrades, etc etc. Join the queue. The long and short is Turbine know about the thread, they'll do something about it if and when they see what they consider more important factors have been addressed first, and nothing said from here on is going to change that. So until then, you may as well learn to live with a slap down as best you can because nothing you do is going to make it go away, or else be bitter until such time as a fix comes along. As Sapience says, choice is a good thing for everybody. At this point, it's just a waiting game, the same as everybody else who wants something they don't have in their MMO.

[maxjenius]

Currently, I am out of slapping gloves. I'm looking forward to the next festival so I can stock up again and start slapping people again. Do I do it because I am childish? Hell no. Do I do it to annoy other people? No

You know some people don't like it, yet you evidently do it anyway. If that's so, that makes you childish and annoying. People should be free to play the game without being forced to interact with childish, annoying people. We can opt out of all kinds of things and we can put characters on ignore. This is no different conceptually (only possibly different technically).

Forced Emotes can stand behind real problems like the WL Bug, the horrible lag, bugged instances, bugged quests and the current horde of in-game exploits.

"Real problems" are what's happening in Syria and Egypt, for example.

We can tell all is right in the LotRO universe because this thread has taken its rightful place back from threads about open tapping.

But then something may be out of skew because I find myself almost 100% in agreement with manstan's last 3 posts.

[Damojo]

We can tell all is right in the LotRO universe because this thread has taken its rightful place back from threads about open tapping.

lol, amen to that

[Felajarko]

This thread goes around and around and around and ends up again where it started, so once more I shall join the fun, contribute to the farce and say what's already been said before, as has become the tradition for this joyous thread ( that isn't addressed at your comment, just in general )

Anyone who plays an MMO knows that their particular bugbear isn't always going to be at the top of the priority list. It could be raiding, PvP, housing, kinship upgrades, etc etc. Join the queue. The long and short is Turbine know about the thread, they'll do something about it if and when they see what they consider more important factors have been addressed first, and nothing said from here on is going to change that. So until then, you may as well learn to live with a slap down as best you can because nothing you do is going to make it go away, or else be bitter until such time as a fix comes along. As Sapience says, choice is a good thing for everybody. At this point, it's just a waiting game, the same as everybody else who wants something they don't have in their MMO.

I can agree with this.

The people who hate the FEs may need to grow a slightly thicker skin. The people who enjoy using them may need to grow up a little. There is a time and place for FEs, but I don't think the crafting hall or vault is one of them. Conversely, if you get hit once, or even twice and it doesn't kill you, let it go. Don't respond to the prankster and they are more likely to go away. If the pranksters give the haters more respect, and vice versa, it will be easier for everyone.

I personally don't like the pranks. But at the fests, and AT THE FEST PLACES, they can be fun and funny to watch. Some of my toons will carry pranks as retaliatory weapons, but not to grief.

Synopsis: FE haters grow a thicker skin, FE lovers grow up.

[manstan]

As Sapience says, choice is a good thing for everybody.

But I don't have a choice. The person casting the FE has all the choices, they chose whether to cast it or not, where to cast it, how often to cast it, whom to cast it on, and what to cast. As a target I have no choice.

Well, actually I do have a choice, I can chose not to play LOTRO.

[monteeburns]

But I don't have a choice. The person casting the FE has all the choices, they chose whether to cast it or not, where to cast it, how often to cast it, whom to cast it on, and what to cast. As a target I have no choice.

Well, actually I do have a choice, I can chose not to play LOTRO.

I was being a little sarcastic with Sapience's quote, as I agree with you regarding FE's, you don't have a choice. But what I was trying to point out is that you have to make the best of what you have if it isn't going to change anytime soon, and when the road you're going down isn't getting you any closer to what you want any longer, and make your choices from there.

Quit.
Stay and be angry.
Stay and try and accept that it will hopefully change at some point in the future, when other issues that Turbine considers more important have been dealt with, and try to make the best of it until then, just like those who've wanted extra hooks for housing, new map for PvP etc have had to do for a long time.

But the stage of letting Turbine know, or influencing their decision any further over this issue is almost certainly passed, unless you are willing to back up your words with your wallet.

[The-Walrus]

If this is all you, a Turbine representative, can add to the discussion - which has been going on for what, two years? more? - something is seriously wrong. Pretty sad.

[maxjenius]

If this is all you, a Turbine representative, can add to the discussion - which has been going on for what, two years? more? - something is seriously wrong. Pretty sad.

Well, that's pretty harsh, and I'm pretty pragmatic (as opposed to a "OMG, Turbine is so freakin' awesome!" fanboi) when it comes to the way Turbine handles things. I think Scarycrow had already posted the most informative thing I've seen from Turbine regarding the forced emote issue. What more did you expect Celestrata to add? "Freakin' word, Scarycrow?"

[manstan]

Tolerating issues does not solve them.

[PerinStone]

I don't think the crafting hall or vault is one of them.

When I am at the vault or forge I have enough windows up I won't notice if you use an emote on me unless I am lying down when I am ready to leave.

Synopsis: FE haters grow a thicker skin, FE lovers grow up.

This I can agree with.

[monteeburns]

Tolerating issues does not solve them.

and nor does waving your sword endlessly on a now empty battlefield. You want to make a point, don't pay. Simple as that.

[Felajarko]

When I am at the vault or forge I have enough windows up I won't notice if you use an emote on me unless I am lying down when I am ready to leave.

I till think they should be 'safe zones' from FEs. What reason should there be for someone to FE someone else in a place like that? I can see the festival areas or even the middle of a street. If someone has a lot of windows up and can't see the effect, then the prankster knows and it can be therefore assumed that the person is not doing it to be funny but to be a pain. Again, my opinion, but if the person is doing it where they won't be seen or get caught, they know they are doing something 'wrong' or at least unacceptable. Otherwise they would do it in the open and share the fun of the FE.

Keep them outside and away from designated RP event areas and make sure the RPers keep their events in the areas and there is no problem.

[PerinStone]

If someone has a lot of windows up and can't see the effect, then the prankster knows and it can be therefore assumed that the person is not doing it to be funny but to be a pain. Again, my opinion, but if the person is doing it where they won't be seen or get caught, they know they are doing something 'wrong' or at least unacceptable. Otherwise they would do it in the open and share the fun of the FE.

If they want to make crafting areas, vaults, and AHs off limits I would be fine with that. I think most people are doing it there because the people are all located in a small space rather than to be a jerk. If someone is hit with an emote and doesn't see it how is that person harmed in any way? I think these people are better targets because there is a good chance that they won't be bothered by the effect.

[Valinus]

I'm not sure I understand the thinking behind a /rp flag making one immune to FEs. Wouldn't a true role-player react to being slapped with a glove or having a spider dropped down their shirt? It seems to me that those who talk the most about 'immersion' would be the one's speaking out FOR forced emotes, not against them.
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Of course, I don't understand the logic of having a public stage designated as a 'serious business' area, either. (I mean beyond the meta-game thinking of: we need some fix for this.) It seems to me that 'serious business' areas should be areas where either the level of danger or (dare I say?) seriousness would make even the most mischievous hobbit think twice before goofing off.
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Neither point is meant to condone griefing. . . or even annoying other players. I just find the logic to be interesting.
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Really, though, FEs will never be the only way (and probably aren't the best way) to annoy role-players if that's your goal. There's plenty of silliness you can muster by emoting while standing on top of them or between them. I'm not sure that a toggle or universal removal is going to assure a peaceful concert on a public server.
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Perhaps a more interesting (and perhaps, more fitting) solution would be to have 'Potions of Focus' available that "put the user in a state of such concentration that they are oblivious to the antics of passers by." They could be placed on vendors, in the turbine store, available a festival rewards and rewards for role-play type quests.I prefer this 'solution' because:
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a) It seems more in keeping with the 'buff vs. debuff' nature of the game.
b) It makes more logical sense (at least to me)
c) It conceivably provides a reward for role-play type quests beyond the intrinsic
d) It MIGHT be easier to implement.
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If I'm being honest, though, I don't really care for either side of the argument. I'm just a lurker.