Question

[Sapience]

What do you mean? Do you wish we were scary, or that we're scary whether you want it or not, or that the devs think we're scary, or that player events are attended only by scary players?

All kidding aside, has this ever happened? I see devs sashaying all over the place in...um, another game...but I think the only Turbine folks I've ever seen in LOTRO were the occasional GM's. It would be fun to attend such an event, though.

Players are scary.

Yes it's happened. It happens twice a year at each of the Pax shows, has happened at Gamescom for a couple years now. The only reason we even have parties at PAX is for players.

Same with dev chats.

In game we limit it mostly to Bullroarer and betas, but it has happened in the past and does happen occasionally now on live.

[Edrogar]

Players are scary.

Yes it's happened. It happens twice a year at each of the Pax shows, has happened at Gamescom for a couple years now. The only reason we even have parties at PAX is for players.

Same with dev chats.

In game we limit it mostly to Bullroarer and betas, but it has happened in the past and does happen occasionally now on live.

I wish you guys would persuade Turbine to budget to hold PAX in the UK some time, it's so unfair that only the US and those with huge bank balances are able to party with the devs

[Bel-Astarte]

I'm reminded of another community I'm in who has a tradition of responding to troll threads with delicious recipes (we even made a cookbook).

Anyone for some Frito Pie?

This was a real favorite when I was a kid (yes, they had Fritos back then), and it still is. With the Frito-Lay Company being based in Dallas, this dish is about as Texan as you can get. We made this comfortably in a 9x9-inch pan, but you can easily double this and serve it to a crowd in a 9x13-inch pan.

• 3 cups Fritos corn chips
• 3/4 cup chopped onion
• 1 cup grated cheddar cheese
• 2-1/2 cups chili (your favorite -- homemade, canned, whatever)

Preheat oven to 350°F.

Spread 2 cups of Fritos in a baking dish (an 8-inch dish works great). Sprinkle half the onion and half the cheese over the Fritos. Pour the chili over the onion and cheese. Sprinkle the remaining Fritos, onion and cheese over the chili.

Bake for 15 or 20 minutes and cheese is bubbly. Serve hot.

Prep time: 5 minutes; Cooking time: 15-20 minutes; Total time: 20 minutes

Not low fat, but soo, sooo delicious.

Mmmmm, pie.

[Dwarendele]

The Bunny is correct - I also work in the software industry (a major technology solution company you all know) and I have never seen a product that is completely 100% bug free - I don't think it exists...

We categorize the defects into priorities that are set by the stakeholders - which are not the developers, or QA teams or community specialist or even customer services - the priorities are set by upper management bean-counters, many of whom never even looked at our products and their word is LAW!!!!

The categories roughly goes as follows:

P1 = Things that blow up - catch fire and causes death and dismemberment - these get fixed 1st or no product.
P2 = Functionality and major or primary features - These get fixed 2nd - or no product.
P3 = Secondary features - as time allows but will release with known defects - to be address in updates.
P4 = Things we are prepared to live with and may address in updates - very rarely are P4 bugs addressed.
P5 = Wish list - things everyone would like to work on, develop or fix - but will never get a green light - ever.

Known issues (P3) are signed off by the stakeholders -and P4's are signed off by customer services as they are the ones who have to deal with it.

If it was up to the Dev and QA teams to sign off on release - you would never get a product to market because they would worry the thing to death and strive for the "perfect" product - which does not exists.

We have a deadline that is a little flexible - We (the dev teams) can hold back release if P1 and P2 defects are causing us trouble... but at some point - they will not continue to throw good money after bad - and will with out a second thought wipe the whole project, which always results in head chopping and layoffs.

As far as P3's goes - Sometimes a strong Dev manager can stall the stakeholders if there is some promising results and they can show a firm benefit to holding back a release - but more often than not if all your bugs are P3's and P4's - it's go time and they push for release...

You must understand that even on a simple project there can be 100's of P1 and P2 issues - 1000's of P3's.
Complex projects can be overwhelming - make no mistake - LOTRO is a complex project.

Often when you fix something other things in that feature set risks getting broken - often - even if the fix is simple - they will not risk a fix in a feature set or trunk of code that has been stabilized.

P4's are pretty much here to stay - and are the things that get worked out on the next product version if still relevant. (often features and technology changes between products so old P4 issues may not even exist in the next version)

Yeah - bugs are annoying - but unavoidable and better than the alternative - no product.

[BellusDuFenna]

Take another bow, Rick. Seriously. That was a rather clever retort to an abusive post.

That said, I would like to address one point of your job duties, being where you stated that you are working with the Web Team to make sure the new Community Website functions as it should. If the new website is tested, released and maintained as poorly as the current forums have been since they were launched into perpetual Beta in 2010, then you all might as well not even bother releasing a new community site.

Don't take that as an attack on yourself, the Web Team, or Turbine overall, it is simply a factual observation. The Community Sites have had the same bugs for years, MyLOTRO has been virtually abandoned, and the major security flaw with login that has been reported repeatedly for months (that has a simple fix, mind you), I think we can all agree the community sites are an abject failure. I really hope the new Community Sites are tested properly prior to release, and that bugs and security flaws are actually addressed when reported. If you accomplish nothing else in your daily tasks, please make sure we don't see a repeat of what we have now.

[Graycient]

Answer topic, I will
Be pwned, you will

[MRNot]

Which means, of course, we need a drink called the Angmartini.

That's an internet for you, sir.. Angmartini = w!n. +rep

[Nasami]

Which means, of course, we need a drink called the Angmartini.

That's an internet for you, sir.. Angmartini = w!n. +rep

Ma'am, but it's all good. (Yes, women do play LotRO, too!)

And thanks!

[MRNot]

Ma'am, but it's all good. (Yes, women do play LotRO, too!)

DANGIT! I was SOOOOOO close to saying sir/m'am, but opted for the simplistic approach based on chance. RNG foils me again..

[Fredelas]

And to get into Sapience's bar, "speak 'friend', and enter".

Which means, of course, we need a drink called the Angmartini.

Here is my suggestion for an Angmartini recipe. (It's not technically a martini, but it does have vermouth!)

2 parts bourbon (or other whiskey)
1 part sweet vermouth
1 part applejack (or apple brandy)
splash of Angostura bitters

Combine ingredients over ice and stir, then strain into glasses.

Garnish with a slice of apple or a cinnamon stick.

[Nasami]

Here is my suggestion for an Angmartini recipe. (It's not technically a martini, but it does have vermouth!)

2 parts bourbon (or other whiskey)
1 part sweet vermouth
1 part applejack (or apple brandy)
splash of Angostura bitters

Combine ingredients over ice and stir, then strain into glasses.

Garnish with a slice of apple or a cinnamon stick.

Crud - I can't drink that (deathly allergic to malt)... oh well.

The most important thing about the drink is it needs to be that rust-dirt colour like Angmar, and if the applejack can add a few of those weird green swirly things we see in Angmar's sky. THEN it'd be perfect.

[Fredelas]

Crud - I can't drink that (deathly allergic to malt)... oh well.

The most important thing about the drink is it needs to be that rust-dirt colour like Angmar, and if the applejack can add a few of those weird green swirly things we see in Angmar's sky. THEN it'd be perfect.

Not all bourbons use malted barley as an ingredient in the mash. Some use only rye or wheat in addition to the requisite corn. Maybe one of these would be safe for you to drink?

Perhaps a curl of green apple peel could be substituted for garnish. I hadn't taken the time to look up in Angmar lately, thanks for reminding me!

[Dotlbeme]

You're right. You caught me. Every word is made up. Easily verified because anyone reading that lists knows that not one thing in it has ever happened.

Way to NOT take the bait. I am impressed. Must be years at Turbine has taught you how to chill-axe...

[Piedtendre]

[*]Work with our Web team to make sure the next version of the community sites function as they should.

No ? No more beta official forum after five years ???
Astonishing.

Can't wait for this one !

[PerinStone]

How much reputation do you need to leave negative rep? I thought it was 1500 but I'm at that and couldn't -rep the OP troll.

[Celestrata]

Wait, I have a question. I'm serious? Really? >.>

[monteeburns]

The short list off the top of my head...

I suspect that 'lifting the rug and fetching the broom' is missing from that list of duties.

I sometimes think you have 2 alarms in the Turbine HQ linked to the forum. When there is a trivial ( not game issue related ) forum thread, the 'cookiez' alarm goes off which tells the Turbinites that it's time to ride full speed onto the forums.
When there is a thread regarding something that has a serious impact on the game for players, the 'AFK' alarm goes off and that's the signal to put on the cloak of invisiblity once more.

Seriously, is it a case of 'HEY, we got one!!! It's one of those threads which we don't need to answer anything about the game', come quick my fellow brothers ( and sisters )?

I don't wish to condemn you for responding to threads like this, it would be just nice to see the same level of commitment towards real threads.

[The_Bruce]

How much reputation do you need to leave negative rep? I thought it was 1500 but I'm at that and couldn't -rep the OP troll.

I wouldn't waste the energy to click the -rep button.

BTW OP, what do you actually do ? Can you give us a list ?

[RKL]

yeah i can make up a list of lies to.

You sit on the fourms locking threads, throwing out CoC quotes like youre the boss, stuffing your fat face..
please, just stop the lies.

Turbine and its lying... will it ever end.
Nope.

I doubt that anyone who has seen your posts would disagree with you on this point.

[Reximus]

yeah i can make up a list of lies to.

You sit on the fourms locking threads, throwing out CoC quotes like youre the boss, stuffing your fat face..
please, just stop the lies.

Turbine and its lying... will it ever end.
Nope.

They are only able to "lie" due to your support and use of their product. Pretty hypocritical of you support something you claim such low moral value too. I'm thankful that most of humanity has much higher moral standards then you seem to. If you want real change you should always start with the man in the mirror.

[Sapience]

I suspect that 'lifting the rug and fetching the broom' is missing from that list of duties.

I sometimes think you have 2 alarms in the Turbine HQ linked to the forum. When there is a trivial ( not game issue related ) forum thread, the 'cookiez' alarm goes off which tells the Turbinites that it's time to ride full speed onto the forums.
When there is a thread regarding something that has a serious impact on the game for players, the 'AFK' alarm goes off and that's the signal to put on the cloak of invisiblity once more.

Seriously, is it a case of 'HEY, we got one!!! It's one of those threads which we don't need to answer anything about the game', come quick my fellow brothers ( and sisters )?

I don't wish to condemn you for responding to threads like this, it would be just nice to see the same level of commitment towards real threads.

I suppose "real" is subjective. Considering so much of my and the rest of the community team's time is actually reading over nearly every thread in the forum and making sure the right eyes get on it (and often that means a lot of the time we spend is just moving things to the right place where the right people WILL see it - evidence the 5 raid threads I moved just prior to this post alone). Combine that with the simple fact that asking the same question in 20 threads and ignoring the answer when it is given in one of them, but not the other 19 is often seen as 'ignoring' a question and it's easy to see that what some people see as 'ignoring real threads' is probably just as likely to be 'not liking the answer when it's given.'


Much like the 'you never answer real questions' in dev chats. I admit that once upon a time under different individuals this was actually policy. However, since I managed to resurrect dev chats the entire dev team, and I credit Mr. Flippo and Mr. Zimmitti (whose name I probably just misspelled) with laying down the law that if they were going to do these then they were going to give real answers, has been fully on board with making clear statements about everything as soon as we can talk about it (and you must understand this is a business and there will be topics and questions that will be answered on our time table and maybe not yours, but that's how it works). I backed their decision up with the rule that if we're giving real answers we say no when it's no. That's why in the last dev chat you got a very firm NO to the question about PvMP maps. Three times. Yet, there are still those who claim we have not answered that question (and I see it is in the list again and we aren't going to answer it yet again, three times is enough no?, and I'm sure we'll be blamed for 'ignoring' it again). Which brings me to....

I do very much appreciate that some people feel that their personal question (despite being asked by someone else and answered repeatedly by myself and the devs) not being answered directly and personally is taken as ignoring the question, but in fairness this isn't really a valid complaint that we 'didn't answer the question.' We might not have answered YOUR wording, but the question was addressed.


There is also the reality of inaccurate perceptions. While we might be criticized for answering too many Housing questions or cosmetic questions or PvE questions when the "majority" want to hear about raids and PvMP, the simple reality is that despite what some groups of players think about their play style representing the overwhelming majority, the reality is almost completely the inverse.

And finally there is the question of wording. How you choose to word your comments and suggestions will almost always play a role in how and if your question or comment is answered. If it's combative, insulting, or abusive... good luck. Odds are it will be closed (which should be obvious) or if you're lucky merely ignored.

[NukeTheLag]

Although, you are unhappy with some of the bugs that go live. The alternative is to not get the content at all. The choice is often not hold it in development until it works or release it with defects in live. [B] Instead it is release to live with defects or cancel the feature.

I think the point of the OP has more to do with the lack of communication about just what Turbine is thinking and the pattern of closing threads that attempt to raise these issues.

Technical difficulties would explain, e.g., launching ROI with the Draigoch bug. It doesn't explain as well why Draigoch is still not fixed a year and a half later. It has absolutely nothing to do with Computer420's point about the senseless loot distribution. A first age symbol either is or is not in the loot table for a particular chest. There is no gremlin in the machinery here. The FA was either put in the loot table consciously and intentionally, or if it was an accident, it easily removed within five seconds after learning about the mistake. This issue was raised in the BR forums well before launch. As messed up as the code for this game obviously is, simply removing a FA from the loot table isn't going to cause some unexpected bug elsewhere in the game.

In short, this was either inexcusable incompetence or part of some master plan on Turbine's part to manipulate the playerbase, presumably to make a profit.

And to the point of the OP. It has nothing to do with why, despite numerous threads on this subjects, a bluename (Sapience) couldn't have posted, "The loot distribution for the T1 Erebor raids are not WAI. This will be addressed in the next hotfix." Or, at a minimum, stating this fact in the announcement about the hotfix.

[Frisco]

And finally there is the question of wording. How you choose to word your comments and suggestions will almost always play a role in how and if your question or comment is answered. If it's combative, insulting, or abusive... good luck. Odds are it will be closed (which should be obvious) or if you're lucky merely ignored.

I dunno, the OP had a good strategy.

Question
What is your Social Security Number Sapience

I'll bet you don't even know it. I'll bet you don't even know your credit card numbers, their expiration dates, or their CVV numbers. You just sit there in your chair all relaxed and stuff.

*waits patiently, alt-tabbed onto Amazon.com*

[cossieuk]

That's why in the last dev chat you got a very firm NO to the question about PvMP maps. Three times. Yet, there are still those who claim we have not answered that question (and I see it is in the list again and we aren't going to answer it yet again, three times is enough no?, and I'm sure we'll be blamed for 'ignoring' it again).

Why was there a need to have 3 questions in the last dev chat relating to PvMP maps, surely 1 would be enough and then move on to other questions.

Since these dev chats can only answer so many questions each time you have them would it not make more sense to to answer as wide a range of topics as possible rather than answering the same question worded 3 different ways.

[Sapience]

Why was there a need to have 3 questions in the last dev chat relating to PvMP maps, surely 1 would be enough and then move on to other questions.

Since these dev chats can only answer so many questions each time you have them would it not make more sense to to answer as wide a range of topics as possible rather than answering the same question worded 3 different ways.

To be completely fair it was three slightly different questions. One was about expanding the map of the Ettenmoors, one was about a new map this year and one was any plans for a new map in the forseable future. All of which got a no response. It was also a chat at which we had a PvMP dev so we tried to answer as many PvMP questions as possible.

Which actually brings up another point. We post the titles and things the participants work on. So asking questions that don't match that (like no one in this week's chat works on Raids of PvMP because they were part of previous chats) work list, means they'll likely go unanswered as devs can and will only comment on what they're working on.