Question

[Sapience]

I dunno, the OP had a good strategy.

Question
What is your Social Security Number Sapience

I'll bet you don't even know it. I'll bet you don't even know your credit card numbers, their expiration dates, or their CVV numbers. You just sit there in your chair all relaxed and stuff.

*waits patiently, alt-tabbed onto Amazon.com*

You'd lose that bet (its kinda sad really). But I can't remember my driver's license # or my license plate. That I admit.

For whoever asked above, here's the "Watcher in the Water". If you know what an "El Hemmingway" is, then you know it.

Watcher in the Water

• 1oz Dark Spiced Rum ('Black' rum is best)
• 1/2oz Blue Curacao
• 2 1/2oz Grapefruit Juice
• 1/2oz Guava Juice

How to make

• NO stirring!
• Fill glass 3/4 with ice cubes
• Pour Blue curacao to the bottom
• Top with guava juice and grapefruit juice ( can substitute guava juice with lime if you want more sourness)
• 1/2 teaspoon icing sugar on the top floating ice-cube + pour the shot of Rum on it slowly to allow the dark cloud to form!
• Splash of Grenadine.

If you've ever seen a Tequila Sunrise it looks a lot like that with the Blue Curacao sitting at the bottom. So it looks like something 'hiding' under the dark cloudy drink.

[Edrogar]

You'd lose that bet (its kinda sad really). But I can't remember by driver's license # or my license plate. That I admit.

Oddly enough my drivers license number is oe of the few numbers i can remember by heart. But only because i realised the UK driving license numbers are a combination of surname, initials, dob and 3 random digits ln the following order ...

Surname - First number of the last 2 digits of my birth year - month - day - Second digit of the last 2 digits of the year - first and second initials - three random digits.

So if my info was: J R Jones 16/07/76 then my number would be: jones-707166-jrXXX

[MTminas]

While waiting for Sapience next post:



Ex

[Edrogar]

Wait, I have a question. I'm serious? Really? >.>

(please don't take this offensively, it's just a funny LARP piccy )

[Dotlbeme]

Those of us with vanity plates would have to chug down a few of those 'Watchers' before we couldn't remember it...

By the way, no WATER in the Watcher in the Water? (other than the ice i guess...)

[xDementedx]

I backed their decision up with the rule that if we're giving real answers we say no when it's no. That's why in the last dev chat you got a very firm NO to the question about PvMP maps. Three times. Yet, there are still those who claim we have not answered that question (and I see it is in the list again and we aren't going to answer it yet again, three times is enough no?, and I'm sure we'll be blamed for 'ignoring' it again).

I would suggest linking previous dev chats in the thread and advise to read them before posting. Some people need big bold red text sometimes to get the picture unfortunately.

[Dotlbeme]

The short list off the top of my head...

• Plan and Organize the player parties at events like PAX.
• Corall devs for dev chats.
• Write up all the transcripts for the dev chats and post them.
• Convince devs to come to player events and talk to the scary players (don't bite my devs please)
• Organize and ride herd on devs while they write dev diaries. (and make sure they get translated)
• Create the player council (announcement tomorrow!)
• Give other members of the community team ideas and let them go nuts with them (Celestrata's Fashion week is a good idea of an idea gone wild).
• Voice the concerns of players in meetings with devs.
• Voice the concerns of players in meetings with Execs.
• Harass Senior Producer Aaron campbell because he sits next to me.
• Harass our Quartermasters because one sits on the other side of me.
• Try to help players who have hit a wall with CS and Account support if I can, by taking their concerns directly to those department heads.
• Make stupid webisodes (wait, you mentioned that...)
• Get marketing to pay for things so we can give them to players. (Parties, swag, DVDs).
• Harass Berephon to come up with trivia questions for Twitter giveaways.
• Try to expand time so I actually have enough hours in the day to get all this stuff done.
• Co-ordinate giveaways with Marketing - like the Hobbit Blu Ray give aways.
• Help decide on the swag for events (I voted against another black hoodie this year so they're all navy blue)
• Tell the ecommerce team they can't be serious.
• Carry around point codes most of the time so when I meet players I can give them a "thank you" for playing.
• Convince the dev team to create cool titles and other things for players (The Sociable, The Wise, and The Well met are all Community team requests that dev approved, so are both PAX Horses, the player designed cloaks, and steeds, the player designed relics, and some other little in game things).
• Tell Celestrata she can't be serious.
• Accept that she is.
• Lotteries.
• Write patch notes.
• Write known issues.
• Help co-ordinate betas.
• Take an unacceptably long time to answer a massive number of PMs (I try!)
• Accept the fact that my inbox will never be caught up and clean out thousands of emails each week.
• Help get player created designs onto mannequins (if you have some, let me know!)
• Work with our Web team to make sure the next version of the community sites function as they should.
• Fight fires.
• Herd cats.
• Answer questions.

I'll add more since people seem to add more to that list for me on a daily basis.

Oh....

• Use by bartending days to come up with freakin' amazing themed drinks for our player party at pax this year. Anyone want a "Watcher in the water"? (Yes it has RUM in it!)

There is no beginning to this man's talent...*rim shot*

[Sapience]

Those of us with vanity plates would have to chug down a few of those 'Watchers' before we couldn't remember it...

By the way, no WATER in the Watcher in the Water? (other than the ice i guess...)

I'm in the process of getting a vanity plate, so then I should be able to remember.


Would YOU drink the water around Moria?

[Sapience]

I wish you guys would persuade Turbine to budget to hold PAX in the UK some time, it's so unfair that only the US and those with huge bank balances are able to party with the devs

I did make a pitch for Eurogamer last year. Gamescom is simply much, much larger and a better use of resources as a result.

That said I'll offer you the same deal I offered folks in Florida.

Though I have no immediate plans to go to the UK, My mother-in-law is from the UK and wants us to go over with her at some point so I'm not sayin' it won't happen.

Oddly enough my drivers license number is oe of the few numbers i can remember by heart. But only because i realised the UK driving license numbers are a combination of surname, initials, dob and 3 random digits ln the following order ...

Surname - First number of the last 2 digits of my birth year - month - day - Second digit of the last 2 digits of the year - first and second initials - three random digits.

So if my info was: J R Jones 16/07/76 then my number would be: jones-707166-jrXXX

In the US each state can make up its own system. So having lived in three states I can't keep track of who does what so I gave up.

(please don't take this offensively, it's just a funny LARP piccy )

Oh if ONLY you knew...

[Wartober]

There is also the reality of inaccurate perceptions. While we might be criticized for answering too many Housing questions or cosmetic questions or PvE questions when the "majority" want to hear about raids and PvMP, the simple reality is that despite what some groups of players think about their play style representing the overwhelming majority, the reality is almost completely the inverse.

So Sapience, why don't you correct the inaccuracies and tell us the actual reality... Which is the majority?

Let me define majority, the most profitable as in "Brings in the majority of revenue".

[Bel-Astarte]

So Sapience, why don't you correct the inaccuracies and tell us the actual reality... Which is the majority?

Let me define majority, the most profitable as in "Brings in the majority of revenue".

Why promote factional flame wars between different kinds of players? Unless, of course, that's your whole point in posting.

[Dwarendele]

I think he did...


If you extrapolate from his statement, I come to the conclusion that PvE casual players are the majority - no?

And thus the reason why turbine employees are shy to post... before too long someone tries to pin them against the wall and the things they say can be extrapolated to fit someones pet theory... Sorry Sapience.

[Sapience]

So Sapience, why don't you correct the inaccuracies and tell us the actual reality... Which is the majority?

Let me define majority, the most profitable as in "Brings in the majority of revenue".

Regardless of which definition you use the answer is not PvMP players or raiders.

[Wartober]

Regardless of which definition you use the answer is not PvMP players or raiders.

As one of those players I read that to mean that I can not expect Turbine to devote much in the way of development to these play styles as they are considered "side games" by the company.

Right or wrong?

[Dwarendele]

As one of those players I read that to mean that I can not expect Turbine to devote much in the way of development to these play styles as they are considered "side games" by the company.

Right or wrong?

Where have you been? PVP was always a side game to LOTRO - it almost was not included due to license issues -
the game was introduced as a niche game for casual players - it was always solo friendly with group options - Raids were always considered an "introduction" to the raiding play style...

I dont think this is any secert or surprise to anyone ... but you?

Or you're just trying to back Sapience up against the wall for some other reason.

[Sapience]

As one of those players I read that to mean that I can not expect Turbine to devote much in the way of development to these play styles as they are considered "side games" by the company.

Right or wrong?

Neither? As with all things, investment is proportional. There are just so many resources to go around and they are allocated accordingly. If something accounts for 10% then putting 90% of your resources into isn't a good plan, but neither is putting 0%.

This actually isn't news. We've always said we track all feedback from multiple sources and collect data from the servers, and invest accordingly.

[Dotlbeme]

As one of those players I read that to mean that I can not expect Turbine to devote much in the way of development to these play styles as they are considered "side games" by the company.

Right or wrong?

Rather than bend over (backwards) dealing with minutia for what are clearly special interest groups, they take the tactful and right-minded approach of catering to the main part of their audience.

The squeaky wheel does not always get the most oil.

If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

<insert more platitudes>

[Zikaris99]

Rumor has it Sapience is one of the extras in the classic short-form documentary "Cat Herders" from 2000.

I was working for EDS when that video debuted during the Superbowl that year... I think the video is my best memory of the company. (Besides the friends I made, some of whom I'm still close to.)


And Sapience, you should consider adding "dismounting trolls" to your list; your wit and grace knocked this one off their high horse!

[Cindir]

I suppose "real" is subjective. Considering so much of my and the rest of the community team's time is actually reading over nearly every thread in the forum and making sure the right eyes get on it (and often that means a lot of the time we spend is just moving things to the right place where the right people WILL see it - evidence the 5 raid threads I moved just prior to this post alone). ...

Sapience, I appreciate your initial post (and all of your posts in this thread). It was a great response, I am sure a lot of us appreciate the info and insight that it provided. Thank you also for the times that you do advocate on the players' behalf and when you represent their concerns with in Turbine.

Just one (long) comment related to what I quoted:
It is good if the right staff will see threads that are moved into the Raid/Instance subforum. But a negative effect of moving it there is that far fewer players will now see that thread and be able to respond to it. It is hard to find that subforum, and I am sure many visitors to the forums don't know it exists, let alone check for posts there. So happily that busy thread today will be seen by Turbine staff, but unhappily few players will now be able to read it and add their input or agreement.

I think this often frustrates players because they know threads moved out of general will no longer get any visibility and will now have few replies by fellow players. Maybe at some times it seems like certain topics cannot be discussed - even though they are just being moved out of General for good reasons. Lastly, it would help a lot if the Moved topics would stay up longer - then more players can see threads AND they can be in the right forums. The Moved topic was gone quite fast today when the active raid/loot thread was moved.

[Armitas]

Sapience..

What is you actually do.. besides sit on the forums locking threads and making stupid webisodes ?

I talk to a few of them from time to time and besides being incredibly busy, which I can vouch for, they are incredibly nice. I've never talked to Sapience on a personal level but he is definitely not as heavy handed as he could be, for example not all errors end in infraction.

Some of them get 300+ PM's a day, not to mention their reported post cue. You could report a post, it goes into a cue and they may not get to yours for weeks because there are so many requests cued up by us.

As far as the post closing I think he is playing as a forum gardener, trying to keep the garden clean and perty, while keeping plants in their place. Now there are sometimes we/I don't understand the whys, but most of the time they make sense.

[Wartober]

Neither? As with all things, investment is proportional. There are just so many resources to go around and they are allocated accordingly. If something accounts for 10% then putting 90% of your resources into isn't a good plan, but neither is putting 0%.

This actually isn't news. We've always said we track all feedback from multiple sources and collect data from the servers, and invest accordingly.

Well it is news to me; so thank you. While its true you've said you track all feedback from multiple sources, you've (as in an official turbine spokesperson) never said before that this is a casual game for casual players. I don't discount the proportionality piece of the statement, but what you are saying strongly suggests we as pvp'ers and raiders need to realign our expectations.

[Sapience]

It is good if the right staff will see threads that are moved into the Raid/Instance subforum. But a negative effect of moving it there is that far fewer players will now see that thread and be able to respond to it. It is hard to find that subforum, and I am sure many visitors to the forums don't know it exists, let alone check for posts there. So happily that busy thread today will be seen by Turbine staff, but unhappily few players will now be able to read it and add their input or agreement.

I literally just made a huge post about this in the "feedback" thread. I mean.. like... 90 seconds ago.
So I'll just link it.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...40#post6719740

I think this often frustrates players because they know threads moved out of general will no longer get any visibility and will now have few replies by fellow players. Maybe at some times it seems like certain topics cannot be discussed - even though they are just being moved out of General for good reasons. Lastly, it would help a lot if the Moved topics would stay up longer - then more players can see threads AND they can be in the right forums. The Moved topic was gone quite fast today when the active raid/loot thread was moved.

I guess this goes back to what I often ask. Are you seeking attention or a solution? If you just want attention from other players then you're right. General forums will get you all sorts of attention (including a lot of the wrong kind more than likely). But you're unlikely to get any eyes on it that can actually solve the problem. I would like to think the majority actually want the issue fixed and not just to make a big thread of 'you're right' posts that won't actually get much traction because it's in the wrong place.

This is especially true for Account Support, Tech Support and Customer service related threads. They have enough to do keeping track of their own forums, the phones, and email that it's incredibly rare they have time to look in other places for players who need help. However, the general forums is a great place to complain, get a lot of attention and then complain some more that no one is helping you. And I don't think it's any secret that since we cannot discuss things about other players that there are some who use this to their advantage to post not entirely accurate retelling of their support experiences. But they will absolutely get some attention. I think we've all seen a few of those.

And out of curiosity (and this is an honest question), does no one use this page? http://forums.lotro.com
it's a clear display of pretty much every forum there is and most of the ones people seem not able to find aren't that far down it. Maybe I should try an experiment and move general to the bottom?

[Sapience]

Well it is news to me; so thank you. While its true you've said you track all feedback from multiple sources, you've (as in an official turbine spokesperson) never said before that this is a casual game for casual players. I don't discount the proportionality piece of the statement, but what you are saying strongly suggests we as pvp'ers and raiders need to realign our expectations.

And I still haven't. At least in re-reading my comments I never saw those words. You may choose to interpret my comments that way, but it's not what I said at all.

When I first started working here I was told that my opinion of myself as a 'casual' player was laughable (they did actually laugh). Because I raided 3x a week, did a LOT of community related things, was online more than 40 hours a week and provided a good deal of bug reports, feedback, and other things (and this is partly how I got hired). Their definition of me was as hardcore as they came, but mine was casual. So labels don't really do much to explain how people really play or how the percieve their own play time.

[Cindir]

Thanks for the reply. Right after I posted I saw your post in the other thread just on this. Just today, I have learned a huge amount about how the forums are organized and why. Thank you!

BTW, even knowing that the Raid forum was on that page, I had to sweep up and down twice to find out where it was - because there are so many forums on that page - for me it is a very long web page (but I don't have a huge monitor with small fonts so it might be easier for others).

[Wartober]

And I still haven't. At least in re-reading my comments I never saw those words. You may choose to interpret my comments that way, but it's not what I said at all.

When I first started working here I was told that my opinion of myself as a 'casual' player was laughable (they did actually laugh). Because I raided 3x a week, did a LOT of community related things, was online more than 40 hours a week and provided a good deal of bug reports, feedback, and other things (and this is partly how I got hired). Their definition of me was as hardcore as they came, but mine was casual. So labels don't really do much to explain how people really play or how the percieve their own play time.

So you did not say Turbine's development budget will be targeted toward those players the company believes will generate the most revenue? And that your previous post stated unequivocally that raiders and pvmp'ers are not the target group?

So, please tell me how the only conclusion I can seem to draw here is wrong; that this is no longer the game it was that had such an emphasis on endgame, it will not be, and those that played that way and hope for a return need to adapt to that reality.