Introducing the 2013 LOTRO Player Council

[NynofArk]

Adding my thanks for being chosen. Not sure how, but I won't argue it! Can't wait to see what experience I've gained over the past 6 years can be brought to the Council table.

[YesMaam]

All that this says was that players from these particular kins were not selected. Does that mean that none of the players on the council have done and completed T2? Maybe they are someone that runs along side the kin but doesn't join. Maybe they used to be in one of those kins. Maybe being that you are using forum posts as a baseline, not all kins that have beat it have posted on the forums.

There are many variables. Just because you don't see anyone from those kins in the council, does not mean that the council does not have end game raid players in it.

I think the logic is pretty solid. It is very easy for a player to go in under the radar. But to complete T2C of the last few raids you NEED A) A leader and B) 12-14 dedicated hardcore raiders. It is almost impossible to hide all of those players reputations as good players all under the same kin on a server and be downing content and seems absurd none of them would ever talk about it as if they are under some secret mission. I admit making an assumption like he is that nobody (or I would prefer to rephrase it as almost nobody) is on the player council that does T2C is pretty, well as you said kind of dumb because of all the variables. However like I said to beat that content you are simply known as a player, it is how the game works you cannot hide it, you build a reputation whether you talk about it or not. The players in this kins play hours every day walking around, pugging, pvping with random people and they would notice if there was that type of a group capable of beating that content because it is in their competitive nature to do so. (research based side of it). If there was a pug out there that beat Saruman T2C on level or that the community was not aware of I'll walk around the forums naked or do something silly for you all

[Crell_1]

I think the logic is pretty solid. It is very easy for a player to go in under the radar....However like I said to beat that content you are simply known as a player, it is how the game works you cannot hide it, you build a reputation whether you talk about it or not. The players in this kins play hours every day walking around, pugging, pvping with random people and they would notice if there was that type of a group capable of beating that content because it is in their competitive nature to do so. (research based side of it).

Rather than speculate, I'd like any of our representatives who consider themselves Raiders, to post here. Hopefully it well help alleviate some concerns.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...51#post6763151

Until the last 5 names are posted, (and based on the lotro tweet we expect them to be international) we won't know for sure who was picked. Maybe we're waiting to hear back from someone in Kreiger or something =)

[PhantomPunkk]

These are the kinships that beat Orthanc on T2C on level.

Anduin - Avorthalier
Arkenstone - Noldor
Belegaer - Beleaffen, Legion der Freunde
Brandywine - Entropy, Shock and Awe
Eldar - The Illuminati, The Mellowship
Elendilmir - Apex, Off Peak, Ramble On, Vanguard
Evernight - Ascension
Gladden - House of Elders
Maiar - Nedh Anwar
Morthond - Amlug Herth, Erznemessis, Krieger des Lichts, Sturmbringer Rhovanions
Vanyar - Divide et Impera, Mixed Raid Alliance, Soldurii
Sirannon - Unquale
Snowbourn - Element Zero, Paprotniki

Another 14 or so kinships have beaten the Battle for Erebor T2C, which includes some from above plus...

Maiar - Zorn der Maiar
Meneldor - Methestel
Nimrodel - We Got This
Snowbourne - Resurrection
Vanyar - Hecki Hecki Pateng

If I left anyone off, I apologize.


What's the one thing that all of these kinships have in common?

As far as I can tell not a single representative from this player base was appointed to the Council.

That's a minimum of 360 players that Turbine couldn't find one spot for on the Council. I know for a fact that a couple of individuals from different raiding kinships cited above were nominated and applied. I know one that was nominated by several individuals. I accept this as a very deliberate indication that LoTRO no longer intends to support challenging raiding gameplay as part of its overall service.

I was holding out for two glimmering hopes that this wasn't the case. I thought that if someone from Vanguard, or Ramble, or Shock, or Ascension, or Legion or Krieger were on the Council it would be an indication that LoTRO hadn't yet abandoned these players. My second hope was that Turbine would have learned a lesson from the last two expansions and decided to announce a new raid with Helms Deep. Oh for two.

As they say, "It is, what it is, yo."

It's a very good indication of the game's direction. It certainly helped me to better appreciate, having some degree of familiarity with the chosen players, the growing (and soon to be I imagine all encompassing) casualness of the game. I'm not ready to complain though. I know for a fact many raid oriented players, myself included, are guilty of not bothering to apply. I'd guess a good many of other server's raiders are in the same boat...sailing the seas of disenchantment. Similar thoughts regarding PvPers, too...

I do find it funny you ended on the exact same note I did though, it is what it is.

[Yicky]

I think the logic is pretty solid. It is very easy for a player to go in under the radar. But to complete T2C of the last few raids you NEED A) A leader and B) 12-14 dedicated hardcore raiders. It is almost impossible to hide all of those players reputations as good players all under the same kin on a server and be downing content and seems absurd none of them would ever talk about it as if they are under some secret mission. I admit making an assumption like he is that nobody (or I would prefer to rephrase it as almost nobody) is on the player council that does T2C is pretty, well as you said kind of dumb because of all the variables. However like I said to beat that content you are simply known as a player, it is how the game works you cannot hide it, you build a reputation whether you talk about it or not. The players in this kins play hours every day walking around, pugging, pvping with random people and they would notice if there was that type of a group capable of beating that content because it is in their competitive nature to do so. (research based side of it). If there was a pug out there that beat Saruman T2C on level or that the community was not aware of I'll walk around the forums naked or do something silly for you all

valid point. But you and I have known each other for a good long while. I know you are a person that goes for the details. But you missed one. Do you forget that I am and have been in a raiding kin for years? And have had many worlds firsts? We just don't post stuff on the forums anymore

Now I will say that PVE raiding is not my number one focus anymore as I have not enjoyed it as much as pvp for some time. but I do have some high knowledge as well as contacts in MA, Vanguard, etc that I can work with Not including people from other servers such as yourself

[Exion_Blade]

All of Morgoth's children are in your hands Yicky...

[Faenyl]

These are the kinships that beat Orthanc on T2C on level.

Anduin - Avorthalier
Arkenstone - Noldor
Belegaer - Beleaffen, Legion der Freunde
Brandywine - Entropy, Shock and Awe
Eldar - The Illuminati, The Mellowship
Elendilmir - Apex, Off Peak, Ramble On, Vanguard
Evernight - Ascension
Gladden - House of Elders
Maiar - Nedh Anwar
Morthond - Amlug Herth, Erznemessis, Krieger des Lichts, Sturmbringer Rhovanions
Vanyar - Divide et Impera, Mixed Raid Alliance, Soldurii
Sirannon - Unquale
Snowbourn - Element Zero, Paprotniki

Another 14 or so kinships have beaten the Battle for Erebor T2C, which includes some from above plus...

Maiar - Zorn der Maiar
Meneldor - Methestel
Nimrodel - We Got This
Snowbourne - Resurrection
Vanyar - Hecki Hecki Pateng

If I left anyone off, I apologize.


What's the one thing that all of these kinships have in common?

As far as I can tell not a single representative from this player base was appointed to the Council.

First of all I don't believe they took a look at which kinship people are in
2nd the group of people that('s) doing/did orthanc/erebor complete on t2c is very small compared to the rest of the player base.. while everybody doing t2 without challenge mode or even doing t1 can also be considered a raider. I think we are respresented well enough for now and we'll see what the player council is able to change/decide/do. We cannot judge something hardly started.

[Lestache]

I did, TL. :P

I also wrote in my application about wanting to represent the raiding community and for raiders to get not only challenging content, but rewarding them with the best loot in the game because they've put all the work and effort into it.

It does certainly feel like with recent content (hytbold), ease of first ages in skirm camps, etc..that raiders are being phased out or short-changed, if you will.

Hobbits don't count.

(Okay, one person from my kin applied. :P)

[Crell_1]

First of all I don't believe they took a look at which kinship people are in
2nd the group of people that('s) doing/did orthanc/erebor complete on t2c is very small compared to the rest of the player base.. while everybody doing t2 without challenge mode or even doing t1 can also be considered a raider. I think we are respresented well enough for now and we'll see what the player council is able to change/decide/do. We cannot judge something hardly started.

'Raider' covers a very wide gambit of players.

You also have to consider, that there are a number of players who would consider some of these 3 Erebor raids to be nothing but glorified skirmishes, some, even less difficult than raid sized skirmishes on T1.

I trust that the players selected, will have our back as a whole, even if we cant point to a specific representative that we think best can advocate our position. After all, I imagine the council members were chosen not only for their well-rounded playstyles but also for their ability to dialogue and reason through many difficult questions and issues they may be called upon to give input. Just because one member is known for their PvMP, doesn't mean that they aren't passionately interested in raiding, or some other system and will advocate unreservedly on its behalf. It's about putting the needs of the many, ahead of the needs of the few, or the one.

[bastiat1]

I don't know about the other kins, but I'm pretty sure that no one from my kin even applied.

Doesn't mean you weren't nominated Lestache. :-) I do know at least one guy from those kins that did apply and was nominated by a few people as well, is a Founder, and has played basically every part of the game for a long time. I know that they had limited slots on the Council, but I still think it shows significant insensitivity to a historically important part of the game community.

[Fasin]

I'd be interested to see what the main class of each player selected is, and what aspect of the game they consider themselves most involved in.

[bastiat1]

First of all I don't believe they took a look at which kinship people are in
2nd the group of people that('s) doing/did orthanc/erebor complete on t2c is very small compared to the rest of the player base.. while everybody doing t2 without challenge mode or even doing t1 can also be considered a raider.

With all do respect, T2C is a leap from T2 and a giant leap from T1. I'm not asking that half the Council be represented by the progression raiding community. I acknowledge that they are a minority, but frankly so are the role-players, and the PvMP'ers. You would think that at least one prominent and active raiding guild member would get a nod.

[Faenyl]

'Raider' covers a very wide gambit of players.

You also have to consider, that there are a number of players who would consider some of these 3 Erebor raids to be nothing but glorified skirmishes, some, even less difficult than raid sized skirmishes on T1.

I trust that the players selected, will have our back as a whole, even if we cant point to a specific representative that we think best can advocate our position. After all, I imagine the council members were chosen not only for their well-rounded playstyles but also for their ability to dialogue and reason through many difficult questions and issues they may be called upon to give input. Just because one member is known for their PvMP, doesn't mean that they aren't passionately interested in raiding, or some other system and will advocate unreservedly on its behalf. It's about putting the needs of the many, ahead of the needs of the few, or the one.

well said (;

[bastiat1]

I admit making an assumption like he is that nobody (or I would prefer to rephrase it as almost nobody) is on the player council that does T2C is pretty, well as you said kind of dumb because of all the variables.

There's nothing at all "dumb" about it. I set an objective standard. I looked up the kinships of every person on the Council and compared it to every kinship that has beaten the recent hardest content in the game. I made no assertion beyond that objective fact. Hate to tell you, but no one ever has perfect information. You make assertions based on the evidence you have. That's all you can do.

[Crell_1]

I'd be interested to see what the main class of each player selected is, and what aspect of the game they consider themselves most involved in.

A council member /bio thread would be interesting =)

With all do respect, T2C is a leap from T2 and a giant leap from T1. I'm not asking that half the Council be represented by the progression raiding community. I acknowledge that they are a minority, but frankly so are the role-players, and the PvMP'ers. You would think that at least one prominent and active raiding guild member would get a nod.

We still have by my reckoning 5 players that haven't replied yet (not surprising considering turbine took an entire extra week). I imagine any alternates lined up and waiting would have similar playstyles.

Also, I'd like to remind folk, that just because they weren't chosen for the #lotrocouncil that doesn't mean you might not find a spot in something like the Palantir Private Preview program, if you have an interest http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...eview-Program/

[Tarenius]

All that this says was that players from these particular kins were not selected. Does that mean that none of the players on the council have done and completed T2? Maybe they are someone that runs along side the kin but doesn't join. Maybe they used to be in one of those kins. Maybe being that you are using forum posts as a baseline, not all kins that have beat it have posted on the forums.

There are many variables. Just because you don't see anyone from those kins in the council, does not mean that the council does not have end game raid players in it.

I took the post I quoted as accurate, I haven't checked each player myself. Sure, it is possible there is an ex-member of one of those kins on the council or something similar.

Notice I didn't say raiders, I said people who are beating the hardest content. There is a world of difference between those who have beaten FF/Saruman T2C and those who ran an occasional Lightning T2C. Raids like ToO with sections that cater to everyone (& appropriately reward harder fights) are exactly what the end game needs, yet there seems to be no-one on this council who was able to beat the harder parts on level.

I guess it all comes down to how much influence this council has. The current end game content consists of 3 lair raids that offer exactly the same rewards on T1 as they do on T2C. There is absolutely zero reason for anyone to run T2C more than once, which is killing raiding kins (I can't speak for everyone, but in my kin and a number of others interest in raiding is at an all time low less than 2 months after the release of a raid cluster). I sincerely hope there are people on the council who will rally for harder, more frequent and more rewarding raid content, but with the apparent lack of raiders on it and the entitlement culture that seems so prevalent recently ("I facerolled T1 so I deserve the same rewards as those beating T2C") I am worried that the utter mess that is RoR end game will be repeated with Helms Deep.

[Faenyl]

With all do respect, T2C is a leap from T2 and a giant leap from T1. I'm not asking that half the Council be represented by the progression raiding community. I acknowledge that they are a minority, but frankly so are the role-players, and the PvMP'ers. You would think that at least one prominent and active raiding guild member would get a nod.

Well yes.. t2c is a leap from t1 and even t2.. and while I cannot say that I did them world first (nor do I shout 'server first!' into the glff or the forums) I can say that we did most of them finally. The problem in my raid is the fact that real life shows up and we do not always have the perfect constellations nor can we afford to stay at home for 2 months to get a world first (;. I feel however experienced enough to say that I could represent the raiding community if I had applied. What I finally want to say is that a world first or even a complete t2cm is not or shouldn't be a criteria for chosing council members. Under certain circumstances and with the right people on their side almost anybody is able to do this even if our so called 'small' server is offering not as many raiding kins as you would wish. I can't and don't want to judge the selected council members (nobody actually should) but time will show if they were decided well and I'm sure(because I know some of them) there are also raiders(or people able to beat the hardest content if you wish).

[NukeTheLag]

First of all I don't believe they took a look at which kinship people are in
2nd the group of people that('s) doing/did orthanc/erebor complete on t2c is very small compared to the rest of the player base.. while everybody doing t2 without challenge mode or even doing t1 can also be considered a raider. I think we are represented well enough for now and we'll see what the player council is able to change/decide/do. We cannot judge something hardly started.

The whole point of T1 vs. T2 was to make content accessible to people who were unwilling or unable to do hardcore raid content. So no, people who only do T1 content don’t really understand the perspective of position of serious endgame raiders. Whether they picked an appropriate representative of this portion of the playerbase by looking at kin membership or some other criteria isn't the issue. However they did it, these people should have been represented.

[bondgirl51]

I think a bio thread would be interesting as well! I'd be interested to see how the demographics are spread out.

Bastiat1 wrote:
______________________________ _____________________
"I do know at least one guy from those kins that did apply and was nominated by a few people as well, is a Founder, and has played basically every part of the game for a long time. I know that they had limited slots on the Council, but I still think it shows significant insensitivity to a historically important part of the game community."
______________________________ ____________________

I'm not worried that the founder demographic will be underrepresented. If anything, I'd be less surprised to see too many people representing the old guard - there are a lot of us. I hope that the council also has some fresh sets of eyes as well!

[Lurkerinthemist]

Now I'm curious, is everyone listed in a kin?

[jakeprecision123]

This pretty much signals the end of end-game raiding as it is. The next raid cluster will probably come next year or right at the end of the year. I doubt Helm's deep is going to be a challenging raid, or even a raid at all. I think Yicky is a good representative for PVP on my server, not so much for PVE. The other guy, maxal - 95% of the population doesn't know who he/she is. He's not from an end game raiding kin, that's for sure. I haven't seen him in any pug groups before. Although this isn't a popularity contest, it sure helps if the selection is at least known to his/her respective server.

With that said, the fact that LOTRO had already given us this 0.0001% droprate for gold crafting recipes that drop from regular level 85 mobs has already signaled the end of end-game raiding.

[bastiat1]

Now I'm curious, is everyone listed in a kin?

From my sample a lot (10-20%) were not in kinships. That could be explained by bad data in mylotro or maybe they listed an alt that was kinless while having another character in kins. It could also just be Turbine's way of respecting the play style of people that like MMOs without the M and the other M.

[Yicky]

This pretty much signals the end of end-game raiding as it is. The next raid cluster will probably come next year or right at the end of the year. I doubt Helm's deep is going to be a challenging raid, or even a raid at all. I think Yicky is a good representative for PVP on my server, not so much for PVE. The other guy, maxal - 95% of the population doesn't know who he/she is. He's not from an end game raiding kin, that's for sure. I haven't seen him in any pug groups before. Although this isn't a popularity contest, it sure helps if the selection is at least known to his/her respective server.

With that said, the fact that LOTRO had already given us this 0.0001% droprate for gold crafting recipes that drop from regular level 85 mobs has already signaled the end of end-game raiding.

Agreed. I am not the person that is prime for PVE. But I will do what I can to help.

[Rampagingdeath]

Now I'm curious, is everyone listed in a kin?

I certainly aren't, havent been for a few years now and have no immediate plans to join one either. on Eldar we have plenty of opportunity to pug instances if we want to, even in the small hours like now (4am UK) I just got a tell asking me if I wanted to do Iobar's Peak and had I not been doing Battle in the tower tier 3 duo I'd have gone along.

[Flatlineldir]

Congrats to all "the chosen ones"