Introducing the 2013 LOTRO Player Council

[Souku]

i for one am glad that they increased the size of the council so that they could fit Shezgotnyctips on it.

[Lestache]

THIS!

So many people get forced-name changes or even bans due to inappropriate names, and now Turbine have one with a patently obvious name crudely referring to female anatomy on the Council.

Question to Sapience: double standards or what?

Tips? I know a lot of terms for anatomy that some might consider crude, but I've never heard "tips" considered as such. Perhaps it's a slang term across the pond?

[Starbuck1771]

THIS!

So many people get forced-name changes or even bans due to inappropriate names, and now Turbine have one with a patently obvious name crudely referring to female anatomy on the Council.

Question to Sapience: double standards or what?

Yes it is a double standard because they willingly let someone who clearly bypassed the nameing filter onto the council. May as well just let them change their name to shesgotanycrack so that their name is more to the point.

[Starbuck1771]

Tips? I know a lot of terms for anatomy that some might consider crude, but I've never heard "tips" considered as such. Perhaps it's a slang term across the pond?

It is used as a reference to womans breast. Replace the p in tips with a t. Hence the disregaurd for the players character name and for the Devs/Community team members who allowed such a player onto the player council.

[YesMaam]

I'm a hardcore raider and was in many groups that did server first / world first. All those ppl I have met including the other kins are ppl that are competitive in nature and are posting about it just to compare to other kins on other servers.

The doom and gloom is coming from the problem that that group of players hasn't felt valued since Isengard and especially since Rohan. t2's are a faceroll while hardcore raiders ask for content they can barely manage, why? because it's what they love to do: challenge themselves to push further. It's in their nature. Now that the council is appointed and actually appearantly none of the members were in kins that did orthanc on level suggests highly that that group is not represented... Saying that raiders can be represented by others that haven't managed to complete orthanc on level suggests a more casual attitude. Why? because hardcore raiders spend hours and hours wiping on nights to complete stuff. They don't mind going deeply into the night raiding to get the hard stuff beaten. They like wipes in a way because it's how they learn and improve. So by not chosing one amongst those means they are not represented. Others saying they can represent them is men saying, don't worry women, I'll stand up for your women's rights. It's not believable and most of all it cannot be done because the understanding isn't there.

This whole discussion shows already the misunderstanding between the groups and will only widen the gap and will actually make the hardcore raiders feel more underrepresented. Not understanding this mindset of raiders, which is different from the so called casuals, is the problem. Ofcourse you can say you are, but your actions will show don't they. Does it mean that ppl can't consider them hardcore raiders? ofcourse not and I"m not saying you can't call yourself a hardcore raider either. I'm merely pointing out that there's a world beyond a word and title where actually a mindset, attitude and actions are more valid. Something that is easily overlooked. So instead of saying: I can represent hardcore raiders because I raid too won't do. You have to show it, and to be honest... if you haven't completed a t2c erebor raid by now then it kinda suggests a different nature from the hardcore raiders I'm talking about. Saying they won't post is just not true, because it's against their nature (highly competitive so Always looking to compare to see if they're winning...).


Congratz to all who were selected.

Could not have said this better, nor have I seen a better post here yet describing what is actually happening. Thanks.

[Lestache]

It is used as a reference to nipples on a womans breast. Hence the disregaurd for the players character name and for the Devs/Community team members who allowed such a player onto the player council.

Ah, thank you. Now I look back on the years I spent waiting tables and tending bar quite differently.

[Starbuck1771]

Ah, thank you. Now I look back on the years I spent waiting tables and tending bar quite differently.

Read the edited post. Shesgotnyctips replace the p with a t. He put the p to get around the profanity filter.

[FundinStrongarm]

I'm a hardcore raider and was in many groups that did server first / world first. All those ppl I have met including the other kins are ppl that are competitive in nature and are posting about it just to compare to other kins on other servers.

The doom and gloom is coming from the problem that that group of players hasn't felt valued since Isengard and especially since Rohan. t2's are a faceroll while hardcore raiders ask for content they can barely manage, why? because it's what they love to do: challenge themselves to push further. It's in their nature. Now that the council is appointed and actually appearantly none of the members were in kins that did orthanc on level suggests highly that that group is not represented... Saying that raiders can be represented by others that haven't managed to complete orthanc on level suggests a more casual attitude. Why? because hardcore raiders spend hours and hours wiping on nights to complete stuff. They don't mind going deeply into the night raiding to get the hard stuff beaten. They like wipes in a way because it's how they learn and improve. So by not chosing one amongst those means they are not represented. Others saying they can represent them is men saying, don't worry women, I'll stand up for your women's rights. It's not believable and most of all it cannot be done because the understanding isn't there.

This whole discussion shows already the misunderstanding between the groups and will only widen the gap and will actually make the hardcore raiders feel more underrepresented. Not understanding this mindset of raiders, which is different from the so called casuals, is the problem. Ofcourse you can say you are, but your actions will show don't they. Does it mean that ppl can't consider them hardcore raiders? ofcourse not and I"m not saying you can't call yourself a hardcore raider either. I'm merely pointing out that there's a world beyond a word and title where actually a mindset, attitude and actions are more valid. Something that is easily overlooked. So instead of saying: I can represent hardcore raiders because I raid too won't do. You have to show it, and to be honest... if you haven't completed a t2c erebor raid by now then it kinda suggests a different nature from the hardcore raiders I'm talking about. Saying they won't post is just not true, because it's against their nature (highly competitive so Always looking to compare to see if they're winning...).

sorry for the long post, but I felt it was needed because there seems to be a lot of arguments going back and forth about raiders, casuals, elitist etc. It's not needed if we actually just admit who we are and try to understand eachother. Accepting yourself is a fine start and then there will be room for all

well, my philosofical input for this morning and haven't even had wine yet :P

Congratz to all who were selected.

All I can say is that people had to apply to participate on the Player Council. If many hard core raiders decided not to apply, for whatever reason, it would be hard to get their particular viewpoint represented on the Council. But it is very early. I'm not prepared to say no hard core raiders are on the council quite yet.

And, no, I'm not a hard core raider. But I've done the wipe after wipe on raids into the wee hours thing more than a few times even if it isn't on T2C. I can appreciate that lair raids (and scalable raids with no locks) with little incentive to do them more than once are less than ideal (at least to me). I've read some of the threads written by hard core raiders and agree with many of the points raised (and even said so in some of them). Does that mean my sole driving force for being on the council is to ensure there's a progression raid at Helm's Deep? No. Is it one of many things that I will keep an eye out for and promote? Absolutely. Trying to understand others, listen to their viewpoints and provide feedback are things I will be doing.

I suspect people that are singularly driven by any one issue might not work well with others on the council. If that sentiment came across strongly in their application it is possible it was a reason some weren't chosen. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[Elemiire]

The 2 people chosen from my server are heavy Role Players from the same kinship. The kin (to my knowledge) doesn't raid, PVP or engage in much group content. *sigh*

I wasn't particularly expecting to be picked, but 2 people from the same kinship and with the same play style doesn't seem too fair and diverse for me. Isn't the player council supposed to represent the whole gaming community including different play styles and choices? The fact that the only two picked from Imladris are withing the same 'group' is just silly.

I'm going to stay positive and hope that the heavy raiding community is represented and heard, if even from other servers since mine is a lost cause.

[Elemiire]

All I can say is that people had to apply to participate on the Player Council. If many hard core raiders decided not to apply, for whatever reason, it would be hard to get their particular viewpoint represented on the Council. But it is very early. I'm not prepared to say no hard core raiders are on the council quite yet.

And, no, I'm not a hard core raider. But I've done the wipe after wipe on raids into the wee hours thing more than a few times even if it isn't on T2C. I can appreciate that lair raids (and scalable raids with no locks) with little incentive to do them more than once are less than ideal (at least to me). I've read some of the threads written by hard core raiders and agree with many of the points raised (and even said so in some of them). Does that mean my sole driving force for being on the council is to ensure there's a progression raid at Helm's Deep? No. Is it one of many things that I will keep an eye out for and promote? Absolutely. Trying to understand others, listen to their viewpoints and provide feedback are things I will be doing.

I suspect people that are singularly driven by any one issue might not work well with others on the council. If that sentiment came across strongly in their application it is possible it was a reason some weren't chosen. Perhaps I'm wrong.

I can say for a fact that at least 3 (very nice) people from my server that raid heavily and are excellent players applied for the council, yet, we had only 2 picked, none of which represent that play style.

[Starbuck1771]

LOL, its NOT a go to hell message, its the official message. Applications were available to all. They were not selected at random, Starbuck; did you apply? May I say also, that you are comparing this Council to other games. You have no idea at all as to whether or not they will succeed in making positive changes, as they haven't even met yet! By the way Starbuck, are you actively playing now, and if so, in what capacity? Raider? Moors? Casual? Econn doesn't appear to have been active in going on 6 months.... I am just curious as to what you are basing your state of game/council doom/gloom prediction on here...

Not currently active. I stoped playing for a little while. I am the owner of multiple accounts so the fact Econn has been unplayed for 6 months is not an issue. As for capacity I do a little of everything. As for what I am basing what I am saying let me give you a little history I have been playing online game for almost 20 years. I have been a part of the MMO community since the 90's. I have been in several communitys that have tried this type of focus group. As for my LotRO history: Alpha Tester SoA, Closed SoA, Closed MoM, Closed SoM, received invites for RoI & RoR but didnt accept them.

So the answer to your question is cold hard experience.

[Milithion]

what i would have done it to list the oustanding people as well (as pending), so they actually know they have been chosen but the mail did not make it to them.

[Galahadur]

Suilad mellyn,

This nomination came as a little surprise.

A little introduction about me. I'm a Portuguese player, started in the Brandywine server where i was a part of a small multinational raiding kinship.
When crickhollow opened, i transfered and created (along with other fellow players) a Portuguese kinship. I'm a father of 2 (soon to be 3), a husband and have a full time job. On top of this i lead or join Raids. I'm also a kin leader and i've founded a couple raiding alliances in my home server of Crickhollow. Sometimes its a challenge to juggle all this duties, but so far it has been an awesome experience.

My main gameplay focus is in the Lore-Master (Galahriel) and Captain (Galchir) classes and i'll do my best to represent those.

I would also like to push for Kinship and Alliance improvements to the game. But i'm can't say anymore until i know exactly what i can talk about and what i can't, so all is speculation at this point.

I'll do my best as a council member to take the community's overall best interest in any way i can.

You can follow me @wickedpt in twitter if you're interested. #lotrocouncil hashtag is also being used, it seems.

[RicardoFurriel]

Suilad mellyn,

This nomination came as a little surprise.

A little introduction about me. I'm a Portuguese player, started in the Brandywine server where i was a part of a small multinational raiding kinship.
When crickhollow opened, i transfered and created (along with other fellow players) a Portuguese kinship. I'm a father of 2 (soon to be 3), a husband and have a full time job. On top of this i lead or join Raids. I'm also a kin leader and i've founded a couple raiding alliances in my home server of Crickhollow. Sometimes its a challenge to juggle all this duties, but so far it has been an awesome experience.

My main gameplay focus is in the Lore-Master (Galahriel) and Captain (Galchir) classes and i'll do my best to represent those.

I would also like to push for Kinship and Alliance improvements to the game. But i'm can't say anymore until i know exactly what i can talk about and what i can't, so all is speculation at this point.

I'll do my best as a council member to take the community's overall best interest in any way i can.

You can follow me @wickedpt in twitter if you're interested. #lotrocouncil hashtag is also being used, it seems.

First of all congratz on being nominated to the council.

To put things in perspective, do you think you could share your kinship's accomplishments in the Erebor raids? T1, T2 and T2C.

Thank you and all the best

[DolphineQ]

Congrats to the selected Council Members!

I have to say though, I am sad to see that my server (Silverlode) doesn't have any EU people represented in the Council.
I haven't had the option to apply myself, sadly, or I would have, to ensure that EU players gets heard too .

[Milithion]

i have forgotten to say it:
congrats to all.

[Devro]

Not currently active. I stoped playing for a little while. I am the owner of multiple accounts so the fact Econn has been unplayed for 6 months is not an issue. As for capacity I do a little of everything. As for what I am basing what I am saying let me give you a little history I have been playing online game for almost 20 years. I have been a part of the MMO community since the 90's. I have been in several communitys that have tried this type of focus group. As for my LotRO history: Alpha Tester SoA, Closed SoA, Closed MoM, Closed SoM, received invites for RoI & RoR but didnt accept them.

So the answer to your question is cold hard experience.

I also have pretty much the same pedigree that you are claiming. And was actually selected as one of the council members. What you have to keep in mind here is that you actually have no clue how things will actually work. You are making pretty bold statements about what will or will not be accomplished with this council. Your opinion about what should happen with the game is one of hundreds of thousands of differing opinions. The main goal here I believe, is for developers to get some feedback on their ideas from the average player. Raiders want more raids, crafters want more crafting, solo people want everything geared towards solo play. And everyone wants the best gear in game.

What you have to keep in mind is that if you skew the slider in the direction of ANY certain type of play, you make people who aren't in that group lose interest. If I had to play with people who only like to raid all the time, I would get very bored quickly. Same for PvMP.

What I suggest is that you try using a little patience and wait until things shake out before you start spreading the hate and ill-will. This is something new, and it is going to take time to do anything.

[FundinStrongarm]

Congrats to the selected Council Members!

I have to say though, I am sad to see that my server (Silverlode) doesn't have any EU people represented in the Council.
I haven't had the option to apply myself, sadly, or I would have, to ensure that EU players gets heard too .

By my count, there's 25 members from the EU on the council.

[Crell_1]

...I'd just like to know the answer to my question & then I'm out of this discussion...what is the official way we are supposed to submit our ideas/suggestions to our player counsel members, so that we are not bothering them with in-game /tells, etc?? Has there been a format set up for this?

While we've been given no official contact points for them as of yet, a number of them are openly soliciting feedback on twitter
#lotrocouncil .

One of the members has set up a seperate email address and says

I opened a new google doc where I collect the ideas I get from you regarding #LOTROCOUNCIL . Here you can verify if I got your attention.

I will make it nice eventually. This is just the start: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DNWFLN0E#gid=1 #LOTROCOUNCIL
Note that you cannot edit the doc. #LOTROCOUNCIL

https://twitter.com/Floradine_S/stat...21728364597248
https://twitter.com/Floradine_S/stat...21897650884608
https://twitter.com/Floradine_S/stat...22008841908225

One of the members from our world has asked for in-gamed MAILED suggestions/remarks (I suspect his mailbox will be over-full shortly, and he'll need to come up with a better system but we'll see)

[LordVoronturEU]

Congrats to the selected Council Members!

I have to say though, I am sad to see that my server (Silverlode) doesn't have any EU people represented in the Council.
I haven't had the option to apply myself, sadly, or I would have, to ensure that EU players gets heard too .

There's a perfectly good explanation why Silverlode isn't represented by any EU residing player.
It's not one of the former EU(under Codemasters)servers.
It's mostly, I would think, populated by North American players.

Also, of course EU players will get heard. There are 25 players from the EU in the Council, currently. Possibly more when we have the full list.

And, now I wonder, why didn't you have the option to apply yourself?

[ThistleRose3]

When the council was first announced I had high hopes that they would choose a group of players that were interested in making the game better for all players. But now that the names have been released I dont see that happening. I recognise the names of two of the players and both are very hard core in their play style and they have been very vocal that other play styles should get less time in development, have less value and should not be rewarded as well as thier chosen play style. Now this is just two of 70 players but I can not see that Turbine is not aware of the adatued of these two players. If even 25% of the players on the council are like the two I know I dont see the council as accomplishing anything. It will just be a place for people to argue and demean other players play style.

[Sapience]

There's a perfectly good explanation why Silverlode isn't represented by any EU residing player.
It's not one of the former EU(under Codemasters)servers.
It's mostly, I would think, populated by North American players.

Also, of course EU players will get heard. There are 25 players from the EU in the Council, currently. Possibly more when we have the full list.

And, now I wonder, why didn't you have the option to apply yourself?

I think, once all the confirmations come back, that the total number of international players from all countries outside the US is 32. I might be off by one or two, but I'm pretty sure that number is correct.

Also, I'd encourage everyone to go back to the original announcement and FAQ and re-read it. I'm already getting 'feedback' from some players commenting on rigged voting (there was no voting) and other claims that are clearly counter to the information provided in the announcement.

Also, we have no plans to 'provide contact information' for council members. You were given their names used on their servers. There is 0 plan to share any personally identifiable information with anyone. Legally we cannot.

Council members are free to solicit feedback if they wish, and we encourage them to read over player suggestions in the suggestions forums to find things they feel deserve further consideration, but I would strongly remind everyone (based on some comments I've already seen) that if we find council members are being harassed, the EULA and TOS will be enforced on those responsible.

[Lethareth]

Why must people be so negative. Am I bummed that I didn't get on the council myself? Certainly. But from the few people on the council that I know (even just in passing from reading their forum posts), I am sure that Turbine did a fantastic job of choosing the council members. And if they did make a mistake with a member or 2, I have confidence that they will correct their mistake as soon as they realize it. Keep in mind, all of you who are complaining, none of us knows the criteria for which they used when choosing people for the Player Council, so even if you feel someone doesn't deserve to be on it, or that you do deserve to be on it, there are obviously reasons why Turbine choose the people they did.

I do plan on re-applying next year, and hope that I make it. I'm not sure the exact reasons as to why I didn't get chosen (though I can probably think of at least 1 reason myself), but I am just going to do my best for this next year, and if I still don't get chosen, I will just keep trying til I do. Rather than complain, perhaps some of you should do the same.

[LordVoronturEU]

I think, once all the confirmations come back, that the total number of international players from all countries outside the US is 32. I might be off by one or two, but I'm pretty sure that number is correct.

Also, I'd encourage everyone to go back to the original announcement and FAQ and re-read it. I'm already getting 'feedback' from some players commenting on rigged voting (there was no voting) and other claims that are clearly counter to the information provided in the announcement.

Also, we have no plans to 'provide contact information' for council members. You were given their names used on their servers. There is 0 plan to share any personally identifiable information with anyone. Legally we cannot.

Council members are free to solicit feedback if they wish, and we encourage them to read over player suggestions in the suggestions forums to find things they feel deserve further consideration, but I would strongly remind everyone (based on some comments I've already seen) that if we find council members are being harassed, the EULA and TOS will be enforced on those responsible.

I was making the suggestion on Snowbourn's global lff channel to make their suggestions in the Suggestions forums and do it in an appropriate manner, i.e well-put, thought-out, and clear suggestions, and that I will endeavour to read as many good suggestions as I can, and to feed back those I feel deserve it.

This is addressed to people in general, and not you Sapience:

I see people mentioning some are very vocal about their playstyle and wanting more focus on that than anything else.
Well, I'm not going to subscribe, ever, to one playstyle vs another playstyle, as I put in my application.
I feel all playstyles are equal and deserve equal attention(or at least, proportionate attention).

When it comes down to it, there are a lot of assumptions flying around at the moment.
It's naturally fine for those with concerns to have concerns, but can we at least be given the chance to start our "work" before it's rashly proclaimed as a failure?

[TheStormKing]

Congrats to the selected Council Members!

I have to say though, I am sad to see that my server (Silverlode) doesn't have any EU people represented in the Council.
I haven't had the option to apply myself, sadly, or I would have, to ensure that EU players gets heard too .

Two things: I hope that the rest of the EU players on the council satisfy your need there. Also, though I but humbly step from across the pond in the US of A, if there are Silverlode issues that you would want discussed in an EU light, perhaps I can still be your way to get heard.