I grow weary from all the negativity.

[SavinDwarf]

I agree totally with the OP. + Rep!!.

All negativity is an illusion created by the limited mind to protect and defend itself.
---Ambika Wauters

Fear is that little darkroom where negatives are developed.
----Michael Pritchard

The only people who find what they are looking for in life are the fault finders.
----Foster's Law

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
----Oscar Wilde

The level of negativity is a sap on most people’s energy levels. What we are seeing here goes beyond the traditional optimist/pessimist views on life. Although optimist and pessimists may view things from a different perspective, neither type wants to hurt other people – that is something altogether different. I know these things happen on other boards, but that doesn’t make them right. The types of things I see which are annoying, and plain “not nice”, come from 5 types of posters: (the list is from another site)

1) [bold]Seagulls “Mine, Mine, Mine!!”.[/bold] Some people seem to believe that the only way to get “what they want” is to make sure that others “don’t get what they want.” As a result they feel the need to enter any thread, no matter how innocent, and try and trash the OP and prove them wrong, stupid and worthless. Why? Because somehow they are threatened. They especially tend to wade in when the poster has received a few positive comments on their ideas.

2) [bold]Forum Bullies[/bold]. Some people just don’t even understand that being nice is a requirement of healthy social interaction. These people not only will till someone they a wrong, but try and do it in a way that belittles the person and/or makes them look stupid. What these people don’t realize if most people just hate those types of responses and thing the person is total jerk. Or maybe these people are social outcasts that have no friends and as a substitute try and make as many enemies as possible.

3) [bold]I’m Right, you’re wrong!![/bold] Some people never have any intention of having a discussion or even a healthy debate. No matter what anyone else says they stick their guns. They tend to misquote people in making points, never really make any attempt to understand another person’s point of view. It’s all about winning rather than learning and interacting. these types of posters will even disagree with you when your post just agreed with them.

4) [bold]I Need Attention.[/bold] Although many people make posts because they would like positive feedback, there is a class of poster that just wants feedback and negative feedback is just as good as positive feedback. You can always spot these people, they try and find people that are willing to reply to all their little stream of threads and then they stick with it as long as possible even if the conversation is going nowhere.

5) [bold]Don’t Confuse Me with the Facts.[/bold] These types of people will make demands and when others try and explain that demands are unrealistic they just don’t want to hear it. Reality is the enemy to their world vision of what should be and they combat reality with all possible vigor.
It just takes a small percentage of the above five types to make a set of forums feel very unpleasant and someplace you don’t want to be. Guilds can combat this by not inviting these types of people into the guild, but gaming company forums seem to always have their quota.

Savin

[The_Carolinian]

Good grief...

Just as a disclaimer, I've read the whole thing, but I will be posting my reply segmented by small parts of your post. I'm not cherry picking sentences, I'm still replying to the whole thing. Just doing it this way to make the post easier to the eye.



Here is an even simpler truth; game companies need to please customers to make money. If their attempted methods at making money displeases or even alienates customers instead, they won't make as much money as they would want to. It's to their best interest to come up with ways that will please more of the audience, therefore making more money.

They need to make money, so they need to provide what the audience wants.

You are thinking of it in reverse. You expect all players to be sympathetic with the company simply because "they need to make money". You expect players to ignore or tolerate what they dislike, just because the company is desperate for money.

You see, that is unconscious consumerism my friend. Turbine is a company built on profit, as you also seem to be aware. Your relationship with such companies should strictly be based on trade. You should not feel any unconditional obligation to support the company financially. They please you, you give your positive feedback and your money. They don't please you, you give them your negative feedback and don't give them your money. It is as simple as that.



Your understanding of criticism is shallow at best.

If you had even bothered to read the Hobbit Presents Feedback thread, you would see that the complaints are mostly centered around two main points.

1. The fact that it is a slot machine in nature and in appearance
2. The fact that it a TP spending (read: can be purchased with real money) gambling system. In a game that is not strictly 18+ to boot.

I have yet to see anyone complain about being given free stuff.



Ohoooo. That is extremely insulting to everyone who actually cares about the game but isn't pleased with the way Turbine is handling it.

I'm not going to repeat myself. Turbine is not a non-profit organization. They are offering a service. You are spoiled he says... How good you have it he says... As if this is some kind of blessing from the heavens. It's a damned video game that is driven by profit. It needs and deserves all the positive and negative feedback it gets so that the designers and developers can plan which way to go next if they want to be more successful.

You know, normally your post deserves a much longer reply. A massively fleshed out reply that would counter every single flimsy point you make. Too bad I don't care that much, perhaps someone else does. Just some friendly advice though. You should indeed stick to playing the game and not waste your free time posting on the forums...

This is quite possibly the most intelligent post I've seen on these forums.

[TheCrossbow]

The OP sums things up pretty well (IMHO). There is absolutely no reason for the level of negativity thrown at Turbine by some of the people.

Now, there is a place for legitimate, constructive criticism. I do believe that when someone is not satisfied they should speak up and say what it is that is not satisfying them. This gives the other person/company valuable feedback so that they can improve. But, voicing this kind of feedback should be handled maturely and without any need to personally attack the "offender".
Unfortunately, too many people in our world have not learned how to engage and solve problems in a mature way.

Also, to be blunt, there is a lot of recent criticism over LOTRO that seems to me to be filled with a lot of ignorance about how things work "in the real world." As the OP said, Turbine/WB has to make money on LOTRO if we want the game to stick around... and have any chance at newer things (or things being fixed). And, he is right in that Turbine has taken a huge chance with their F2P model in that you can (if you wish) play the entire game without having to spend a penny of your own money. Yes, you might not be able to buy everything you want, but you can largely enjoy the game without spending any money on it. That is a huge risk that other MMOs have not taken.

My advice to those who are being "bored" with LOTRO or not being satisfied? Sure, voice your dissatisfaction so that Turbine knows, but do it in a respectful way that makes them willing to listen to you. But, at the same time, don't be afraid to take a break from LOTRO. You don't have to play 24/7. Do like I do and try to have enough variety in your gaming (or other activities) that you don't make yourself bored.

That's my 2 cents on the matter.

[Sapience]

it's interesting the OP chose the word Negativity, but the conversation is about criticism. They are different things.

To criticize something you must consider its merits and demerits. Criticism is balanced and considered. It's grounded and usually provides something useful in the expression.

Negativity on the other hand requires nether and does not provide anything useful in its expression. It is simply a negation or denial. In fact it rarely, if ever, has any constructive criticism attached to it. Most people equate negativity as pessimism, having a gloomy out look, or in some cases hostility and even maliciousness.

So attaching one to the other isn't valid as they are different things.

Now, there are those, in every community both online and off, that you never have to guess what they will say. It will always be negative. Not critical, not feedback, just pure negativity. I believe those are the posts and posters the OP was referring to.

[SavinDwarf]

it's interesting the OP chose the word Negativity, but the conversation is about criticism. They are different things.

I agree with your post. The only thing I would add is that there is a form of negativity that cloaks itself in criticism. You see this most often when someone makes a suggestion and then, rather than constructive feedback, the idea is ripped to shreds and belittled by some posters (often with mis-quoting and incorrect facts). I personally think these individuals believe that any idea getting positive feedback detracts from their personal needs/desires and hence feel the idea must be quashed immediately..

[DelgonTheWise]

it's interesting the OP chose the word Negativity, but the conversation is about criticism. They are different things.

The OP sort of blew it with his example, which is part of what set this off. He seemed to assert there was no legitimate reason to complain about the hobbit presents because they were "free stuff" with no downsides to the game environment that the OP thought were worth talking about. Many apparently think he was wrong in that point of view. I rather dislike Hobbit presents for the immersion/flavor issues, not because of what is given out -- though I do have a personal belief that people generally derive greater satisfaction from items that they've "earned" by some means rather than are handed to them. The example in his post seems to say that this point of view is simple "negativity".

IMHO a better example for "Negativity" are people who no longer play the game and post vague "the game is dead/dying" type screeds with no particular point or factual information.

[Damojo]

IMHO a better example for "Negativity" are people who no longer play the game and post vague "the game is dead/dying" type screeds with no particular point or factual information.

Criticism takes effort, facts, logic.

Negativity is the lazy form, requiring only that the statement is negative. There's no need for facts, or a look at the alternatives, or a review of what the best solution could be.

That's why you see so much of it, without any proof of an allegation the poster is left with no option than just hurl negatives about. Sure it will be dressed up with "facts" and "inescapable conclusions" but that doesn't change its nature.

e.g. "There was no Turbine ad before the Hobbit movie, therefore WB and Turbine have given up on the game, stopped investing in it, pulled all the staff away and will be closing it this year". Which is about as logical as "fish have tails, and so do kangaroos, which proves that fish are marsupials and are doomed to extinction because there isn't much free water in the Australian outback".

[SNy-lotrolinux-EU]

To criticize something you must consider its merits and demerits. Criticism is balanced and considered. It's grounded and usually provides something useful in the expression.

Negativity on the other hand requires nether and does not provide anything useful in its expression. It is simply a negation or denial. In fact it rarely, if ever, has any constructive criticism attached to it. Most people equate negativity as pessimism, having a gloomy out look, or in some cases hostility and even maliciousness.

You might want to take a step back and look at the history of forum posts over the last, what, 2 years.

There HAS been constructive criticism. Lots of it. On lots of different topics. Sure, there has been negativity, as well, but staying with the criticism, what has it brought about?

Mostly silence from you guys. A few sarcastic and snarky comments. But often just silence. Sometimes thread movings, etc.

So then, what reaction do you expect, when criticism is constantly met with above? Yep, resignment, and sometimes just plain negativity. Because, seriously? Why should constructive criticism even be continually tried, when it's ignored, anyway?

Regards.
SNy

[SavinDwarf]

You might want to take a step back and look at the history of forum posts over the last, what, 2 years.

There HAS been constructive criticism. Lots of it. On lots of different topics. Sure, there has been negativity, as well, but staying with the criticism, what has it brought about?

I'm a little confused here in your reply to sapience. He never said or even implied that there wasn't constructive criticism on the site. He just said there is difference between criticism and negativity.

[Supergrunt8]

I agree, but such negativity is something I've seen regularly in a lot of free to play mmo forums . The Lotro community especially the role playing one is actually quite mature and that is something I appreciate.

LOTRO is one of the few games I ever bothered spending money on (and the fact that Turbine is one of the few publishers that actually have a payment suitable option for my country) I love this game and wish the developers the best.

[MoonwalkIntoMordor]

There are right ways and wrong ways to let your voice be heard. And the truth is, the way I see it, many forum posters have such an overinflated sense of entitlement that they can't even address the developers in a way that is respectful. If you are going to try and say that these forums are not overflowing with harsh criticism and overly aggressive "feedback", then you are part of the problem. Simply being a paying customer does not give people the right to flat out insult either the developers, or the product that they work tirelessly to produce.

That is not the kind of message your original post conveys. It comes across as if typed out by someone who is just adamantly against any sort of negativity. I would strongly recommend you to revise it.

You sir are the kind of person that screams at their waiter because the burger they like was taken off of the menu.

I dare you to go through my post history. I dare you to find a post where I insulted Turbine employees. Or did any sort of posting analogous to "screaming" at them.

I want to know how you know "the kind of person" I am. I hope you are good enough to stand behind your word.

And to address the point you tried to make about them spending their development time on content that players actually want and not on "slot machines", If the devs don't spend time creating new ways to generate revenue from their player base then they can't afford to spend time creating more content for the game... Also, there are plenty of players, including myself, that enjoy the slot machine and actually look forward to seeing what present we will get each day.

Do you have access to information about the amount of revenue generated from quest packs or VIP memberships? Do you know the revenue generated by the Mithril Coin spending feature of the slot machine?

You do not. Neither do I.

So how about you don't drag the conversation that way and stay where you started? Negativity on the forums. Lets only talk about that and what it could mean to Turbine, without acting like we know sales numbers.

Lastly, my comment about players being spoiled was not in reference to any one thing but to the multitude of complaints that litter the forums about the ways in which Turbine tries to generate revenue. Spend time in some other free to play offerings and you will see how good the LotRO players have it.

That's like saying a Bentley owner can't complain about his broken GPS because some other guys Lada has a leaking fuel tank.

Someone somewhere else having it worse is not relevant within the scope of this game or the community. Claiming that it is relevant a fallacy. I'm sure there was a latin phrase for that, but I'm awful at that argumentum ad deal.

My post was not a call to end all constructive feedback, but to urge players to take a step back and consider the good things that the developers have given us. And to be appreciative of the incredible game that LotRO is. As I stated earlier, no one will love everything, but coming on the forums and flaming the developers every time they do something you don't like is excessive.

As I said on the very top, your post did not give the impression you intended it to give, at least not in my case. If your complaint was about the civility and method of complaint, then you should have gone for that from the beginning. The original post just looked like a case of indigestion against negativity in general. Which is not a healthy approach.

I completely agree that negativity should not cross the line and lead to hatred, insult, name calling, etc. But I also think that negativity should exist, if only for the sake of balance.

Negativity on the other hand requires nether and does not provide anything useful in its expression.

The same goes for positivity. Saying "I love this" is no different to saying "I hate this". They are both worthless feedback unless you properly explain why. The why of it is what matters and has worth.

That is why I am quite baffled at why blind negativity gets all the flak while blind positivity never does. There are unnecessarily plenty of both on these forums.

[Sardonyx]

Well, criticism tends to turn into negativity when concerns aren't addressed. And I'm not talking about minor bugs, I'm talking about big huge glaring problems, like the community login being sent unencrypted for over half a year. "Oh, it'll be fixed when the updated community/forum site rolls out" was a really bad answer months ago, and it's no better now.

When you don't make any effort to do simple things like help keep your users' information secure, you really have no reason to complain that they see you in a negative light.

[managawal]

I admit i stopped reading the replies half way through cause the negativity was very visible.

Two things.

1) I love Hobbit presents.
2) I love to play lotro more if i don't visit forum.

So yes this negativity do get me some times. Advise to all: play more lotro instead of checking forum, you will start to love it more.

[Salvacion]

I feel that some clarification is needed in regards to a very specific part of my original post. So I will do my best to explain the intent of what I wrote.

When I said that LotRO players were "spoiled" I was not referring to being spoiled as a negative thing. I did not say that we( I was refering to my self as being spoiled as well as the rest of the playerbase) were spoiled rotten or spoiled brats. I simply said that we were spoiled. What I mean by that is that LotRO is a fantastically well made game that gives it's players so much to do and enjoy. And that due to how great the game is we are lucky and hence spoiled by it's quality. For instance, I take pride in that I "spoil" my wife and children. I love to shower them with gifts and affection as often as I can, and I do not like for them to want for anything. However that is by no means stating that my wife and children are spoiled in a bad way. They are continually grateful and gracious for everything they receive, whether tangible or intangible. They feel very comfortable asking for things if there is something they desire. However, they are perfectly fine if the answer is sometimes no.

Being spoiled is not a bad thing in my opinion. I was simply stating, in perhaps a not so elegant way that, that I believe LotRO is a quality game that treats it's players very well. And we are lucky to have fell in love with such a fantastic game.

It was never my intention to offer a blanket insult to the LotRO community. That is just not me. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I just believe that it will do players good to take a step back sometimes and remind themselves of all the things that LotRO does right. Trust me, this will make it much easier to accept the things that you feel are not done well. In any relationship(yes i am referring to our connection to a mmo as a "relationship") feedback is very important, however, continuously presenting that feedback in a way that is constructive and making sure to balance criticism with praise is very important.

-Grumfin Broadbeard

[Sapience]

I agree with your post. The only thing I would add is that there is a form of negativity that cloaks itself in criticism. You see this most often when someone makes a suggestion and then, rather than constructive feedback, the idea is ripped to shreds and belittled by some posters (often with mis-quoting and incorrect facts). I personally think these individuals believe that any idea getting positive feedback detracts from their personal needs/desires and hence feel the idea must be quashed immediately..

There is also the concept of a "bakhanded compliment", which is not uncommon.

IMHO a better example for "Negativity" are people who no longer play the game and post vague "the game is dead/dying" type screeds with no particular point or factual information.

There are certainly a number of these individuals. Both here and elsewhere. Because the LOTRO forums are for players, not former players, we do try to weed them out when we come across them. Before Free to Play, the forums would auto-ban any person with an expired subscription. Now it takes a more manual approach.

[SavinDwarf]

Saying "I love this" is no different to saying "I hate this". They are both worthless feedback unless you properly explain why. The why of it is what matters and has worth.

I personally don’t agree with the above statement. Positive energy tends to fuel positive results while negative energy is a drain on everyone. Positive comments are useful, negative comments with out constructive suggestions for how to improve are almost worthless. Let me explain with an example:

Case 1: A group of six friends go out to dinner to have a good time. They spend the night laughing and sharing great memories – they remember the good times. The service is a little spotty and not all the dishes are the best but everyone keeps it to themselves. They all laugh about the fact the young waiter hasn’t got a single order right all night.

Case 2: A group of six friends go out to dinner to have a good time. Immediately one of the group points out that the place is a bit gloomy. The when the food is brought over there is a mistake by the waiter. The person calls the manager to complain. Then they started saying they will never come to this place again and that the waiter should be fired. They spend the night pointing out everything that is wrong with the place. 90% of what they said was true.

I personally would make a note that the next time we go out there will just be the five of us. Why? The waiter was an idiot but the person who really spoiled the evening was the Mr. Negative.

Most people don’t like to be around negative people – it’s tiring. Negativity is very different from constructive criticism. For starters most people making constructive criticism actually want something to change, they put effort into thinking how things could be better. These people tend to be nice when explaining their problems. Shouting at the waiter and calling the food &&&& leads to a new dish that everyone in the kitchen spat on before bringing it to your table.

[arnorman]

I'm lucky to have a job that allows me to look thru the forums and other lotro sites while at work. I do it mainly to keep in touch with the game I love. This is my first and only MMO. I've loved Middle-earth for 30 years. I recently upgraded my computer and am now able to play on ultra high graphics and DX11 and the game is even more beautiful than it was before. I want a lotro do-over and see it all again with these graphics. I read the forums and all the negativity but as soon as I hit "Enter Middle-earth" it is all forgotten. Thank you Turbine for a great home away from home.

[Aohh]

SW:TOR is not really a brilliant example of F2P model, when the game makes you pay for essential UI elements like quickslot bars. In my book, that's one of the worse thing I've seen so far in F2P games, buy your UI, and I've also been playing those games for a long time.

That's untrue You can actually unlock those and many other features and items in-game, without pouring a single real life penny.

I don't like the direction they are taking the game in general, but hey, it's not my game and not my job change it. When is gets to the point that I no longer can find the fun in it, I will be gone. But you won't hear about it here.

That's a mistake in my opinion. Unless the developers don't care at all, it's always good to tell them what you feel they've done wrong. If they - again - care they might even agree, correct it provided the conditions are there. But if you don't tell them anything they can't guess...

We have a saying where I come from...

People vote with their feet.

If you're unhappy with something then leave. No-one asks you to stay, no-one asks you to complain endlessly about how bad things are.

If things are that bad, just go... Leave! And take your negativity with you.

See my comment above; voting with one's wallet is not the only acceptable form of criticism...

[Sandgorgan]

I personally don’t agree with the above statement. Positive energy tends to fuel positive results while negative energy is a drain on everyone. Positive comments are useful, negative comments with out constructive suggestions for how to improve are almost worthless. Let me explain with an example:





I personally would make a note that the next time we go out there will just be the five of us. Why? The waiter was an idiot but the person who really spoiled the evening was the Mr. Negative.

Most people don’t like to be around negative people – it’s tiring. Negativity is very different from constructive criticism. For starters most people making constructive criticism actually want something to change, they put effort into thinking how things could be better. These people tend to be nice when explaining their problems. Shouting at the waiter and calling the food &&&& leads to a new dish that everyone in the kitchen spat on before bringing it to your table.

You are also enabling an inept waiter and a bad restaurant. I agree being around negative people is a drain, but they bring a balance and an accountability to life that is needed. A lot of the negative feedback comes from players that have been around for a long time. If they hate the game that much, they would have never made it to 85. The Lotro experience from beginning through Moria was fantastic, I even enjoyed Mirkwood, but the last few expacs have been failing to deliver, and I'm glad some are voicing their displeasure. If everyone was always positive about it, there would be no feedback on what is and isn't working. It seems that the Hytbold feedback was good enough to encourage the same type of end game for Wildermore. If there is enough positivity to enable Turbine to justify a "Rebuild Helm's Deep" end game, my journey to Mordor will be at an end.

[Beaniemooch]

The frustration level of long-time players is probably at an all-time high because the game has changed greatly in the direction it has taken. Different people express themselves differently, and people interpret things they see differently as well. That doesn't make any one method of communication all right or wrong.

I said hobbit presents to me were worthless. What they represent to me is Turbine resources spent on something that I get no value from and don't see as an overall benefit to the game for any player. It was mentioned that I could get several gold from vendor items there - but I have several thousand gold I have nothing to spend on now. Why do I need gold? The teal items aren't even level 85 items so my characters can't use them, nor are they superior to gear that can be obtained through casual solo play so even my crafters can't use them. I can get the rare usable item but I'm sure as heck not logging in just to check presents.

Lack of response on long-existing bugs, broken quests, mediocre instances and raids - these are what frustrate me. I feel more resources should be spent there and less on frivolous game mechanics such as auto-forcing me to deal with a festival quest I don't want to attend. Or resources spent on a new launcher when the old one worked just fine and didn't seem to be more of a priority than fixing what was broken.

I don't mind F2P because I think it makes an alternative way for players to discover the game. But when content is geared to people just to get them to use the store I object. I don't want a pop up every time I earn TP telling me to go to the store. By 85 I know about the store and don't need to hear it for the millionth time.

Perceived take-aways that affect daily game play, like the loss for VIPs of blue bar, concern me and so I express my concern. Do you want to take that as negativity? That is your perception. Sorry, I can't be excited about using up my blue bar in 20 minutes of play instead of maybe a few hours. I didn't see the point in crafting XP that uses blue-bar XP either. But to take away the ability to accumulate more than 1/3 blue bar at any point, that's a take away and I protest.

I don't come to the forums instead of playing - I come here when I am not playing anyway to read, learn, and express my opinion over a product I buy. That product just happens to be a game I have loved for almost 5 years and played more hours than I can count. I come here because it matters to me what happens to the game. If you can't say anything nice don't say anything doesn't work in any aspect of commerce, which is what this is. It's not just a game, it's a product. Just going away and saying nothing means I'm part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[Sardonyx]

I personally don’t agree with the above statement. Positive energy tends to fuel positive results while negative energy is a drain on everyone. Positive comments are useful, negative comments with out constructive suggestions for how to improve are almost worthless. Let me explain with an example:





I personally would make a note that the next time we go out there will just be the five of us. Why? The waiter was an idiot but the person who really spoiled the evening was the Mr. Negative.

Most people don’t like to be around negative people – it’s tiring. Negativity is very different from constructive criticism. For starters most people making constructive criticism actually want something to change, they put effort into thinking how things could be better. These people tend to be nice when explaining their problems. Shouting at the waiter and calling the food &&&& leads to a new dish that everyone in the kitchen spat on before bringing it to your table.

The problem with analogies is that for the most part, they're chosen poorly.

In your restaurant case, imagine that you were planning to go to this place daily for the next couple of years. And that this was the only restaurant that served the kind of food you and your friends like.

At that point, tolerating poor service and bad dishes begins to look pretty foolish.

Your analogy only appears to make sense because you and your friends are able to go to a different restaurant. The players here are not able to go to a different LOTR MMO.

[NukeTheLag]

Most of the so-called "negativity" are perfectly valid criticisms about the direction of the game, performance issues and customer service issues. They only become "negative" when the fanboys object to someone daring to point things out. For example, go to any thread addressing the lag problem. I guarantee you it will not go more than 10 posts without some fanboy response personally attacking the author of the thread for daring to criticize this well established problem and making baseless assumptions about the OP's system and regurgitating stale talking points about how it can't possibly be on Turbine's end.

It is in this spirit that the OP of this thread gives the game away. His objection is not to "negativity" per se. Rather it is to "negativity" directed against Turbine. "Negativity" is perfectly OK, it would seem, when it is directed at critics of Turbine.

The OP starts out stating he is a huge fan of MMOs. For those that forgot, one of those Ms stands for multiplayer. Surely a fan of MMOs would agree that there are legitimate criticisms to be raised with the trend away from group content, raiding and the current loot mess. Such concerns are not "negativity."

I do agree with the OP 100% that it is ridiculous for F2P people to actually expect to play for free. However, not all of us are free to play. Some of us are VIP. We have already paid money to play. As such it is legitimate to ask why we should have to pay additional money on top of what we have already paid. It is also legitimate to ask why the store should always be shoved in our faces. Maybe LOTRO is better than other MMOs for the pure F2P customer. It is clearly one of the worst for VIPs. The store in SWTOR, for example, contains fluff and minor QoL items. It does not have P2W items like stat tomes. Also the store is not popping up all the time. Pointing this out is not "negativity."

As for hobbit presents. There are plenty of threads discussing how these are lore-breaking, an improper diversion of dev resources, raises ethical concerns over gambling and is a desperation move by a game on its last legs. Even if one disagrees with all of these arguments, they are not so lacking in any foundation that they can casually be dismissed as "negativity." (And I would note that these threads themselves provide yet another example of fanboy negativity that is somehow not "negativity" because the targets of the criticism are politically correct or something).

And yes, I don't know how good I have it because things used to be better. The game ran better, there was more content, less grind and one could set goals and works towards them rather than just hoping to get lucky with the RNG. But I guess pointing that out is "negativity."

There is a reason you are seeing a significant uptick in "negativity." When F2P was introduced there was trepidation but the general sense was that it was worth it because it would bring in more cash which would make the game better. Three years later the game has not gotten better. So either it didn't bring in more cash or the cash was used to line corporate pockets. Through RoI and RoR people have been waiting for a payoff that never came and there is no reason to believe it is ever going to come.

People really are fed up and leaving in a way that goes beyond the usual DOOM sort of thing. I honestly don't see how one can look at the launch of Wildermore and not have concerns for the future of the game. In the end, the game may well go on fine with a completely different customer base. But it should hardly be surprising that long time players who loved what this game once was are voicing their frustrations.

[zagreb000]

Burst aneurysm

Ok, in the future instead of counting the negative and positive posts, how about you try to read and understand them? You see every post has its own purpose and behind it there is a players motivation to convey his feelings into words. Frustration, joy, excitement, etc...... When someone says Turbine is not doing a good job as they used too do, then they for most part explain why that is.
Take a look at some other forums. Other games. I did. GW2, Witcher, WoW, RIFT. There is nowhere near as much negativity pointed towards the developers. Even in frickin WoW that has a horrible community!

Could it be, just maybe, that Turbine is to blame for their bad rep? Did companies that have bad rep deserve that bad rep? You wouldnt know, since as a fan boy you admit to non existing objectivity. (his words not mine)

If turbine does so well, as you said they do, then i dont see how they could be attacked so much. For no reason? I highly doubt it.

[SNy-lotrolinux-EU]

I'm a little confused here in your reply to sapience. He never said or even implied that there wasn't constructive criticism on the site. He just said there is difference between criticism and negativity.

And what I hinted at was that for an apparently increasing number of posters, the time for attempts at constructive has long passed, due to constant lack of any kind of communication here.

The same people that are unwilling to share relevant information on their own site, reply with snarky comments, if at all, etc. constantly demand constructive criticism and when it is given, ignore it. Then they complain about the resulting negative vibe.

SNy

[Sapience]

And what I hinted at was that for an apparently increasing number of posters, the time for attempts at constructive has long passed, due to constant lack of any kind of communication here.

This is unfortunate as pure negativity will result in 0 answers or positive outcomes. Negativity isn't a criticism it's an attitude and poor attitudes net poor results.

The same people that are unwilling to share relevant information on their own site, reply with snarky comments, if at all, etc. constantly demand constructive criticism and when it is given, ignore it. Then they complain about the resulting negative vibe.

SNy

Its true there are questions we cannot answer for a host of reasons that ultimately don't matter much to those asking the question.
It's also true that in some cases we have decided on a timeline for answering and sharing information (Helms Deep infor for example) that maybe some dislike.

It's also true that many of the negative comments are that we did not answer at all when in truth they seem to be complaining that we did not answer in the way they want. In fact, we regularly see claims that we have 'never answered' something that we've answered countless times (PvMP maps is a good example). The problem really appears to be either A) the person was unwilling to read the answers given or B) did not like the answer so they discount it (I didn't like it so it doesn't count as an answer) and ask again until the answer changes. At some point we do absolutely stop answering those questions entirely as the answer was given and not changing. There is no point in responding to those as the answers will simply be ignored again.