LoTRO's new Senior Producer?

[Souldan]

Dev chats with hundreds of direct questions asked and answered. Hundreds of dev posts this year with answers to questions. Not to mention my own (I'm not a dev so I don't count my answers with theirs). A 20 Questions post with long standing questions ansered just a few weeks ago, another 20 questions coming later this week. Plans for future Twitter Dev chats later this month. A number of threads recently where I've personally answered very direct questions with very direct answers in both general forums and PvMP forums.

So I'm going to have to assume I, or someone, hasn't personally answered your question. So feel free to ask it (and I bet I answered it somewhere recently).

Read the above. I find it interesting this is rapidly becoming a direct copy of the last thread (which is heavily mapped in the dev tracker should one care to look), where all of this was addressed. including the fact that the dev tracker exists for exactly this purpose.

I did read above. I rest my case.

[Sapience]

I did read above. I rest my case.

As do I. Thank you for making it for me.

[Souldan]

As do I. Thank you for making it for me.

Apparently sarcasm is wasted on forums :P

A non-answer to what I posted may be politic, but it still doesn't address the issue anymore than asking me to read above (which I did). Hence - I rest my case.

[Nakiami]

@Souldan your issue is that all the information is not in only one place?

[Frisco]

I think in the case if Helm's Deep information, people are expecting it far too soon. Probably because RoR feels over and done with for many. I've never seen this degree of "senior-itis" so far before an expansion. The announcement for HD was 3 months later than for RoR and 5 months later than RoI. I would imagine pre-orders and detailed information would be delayed similarly (as well as launch), and that stuff didn't come until June for RoI and RoR.

[SNy-lotrolinux-EU]

@Souldan your issue is that all the information is not in only one place?

No, his issue would be that inconvenient questions aren't answered at all (in the sense the rest of the world understands 'answer').

But it's pointless arguing this and will result in nothing else than statements to the effect that certain individuals are trying to get threads locked. And, of course, the obligatory reference to 'not liking the answers given'.

SNy

[mr_toad]

If all of this communication is happening, why do so many members of the community think you (the lotro team) are so unclear, leave us in the dark too much about the games direction, and/or are avoiding certain topics?
....

#1 Because some don't like the answers they hear and start to write trollish propaganda just like you were above by claiming to know what "many" in the community think. Speak for yourself or else it sounds ridiculous.

#2 Because some don't take the time to follow the game, its news, or the dev tracker. It'd be much like a Yankees fan who never watches games nor reads newspaper complain that the Yankees don't release enough information or communicate enough.

#3 Because some lack reading comprehension, which is understandable because sometimes we all (myself included) skim or skip things because we are (in a good or bad way) excited.

#4 Because some can't handle the truth that in all pc games under development, features and systems either get cut or changed. Every computer game I've followed for the past 15 years goes through these type of development cycles and cuts. But if Turbine drops or changes a feature, some people act with such extreme anger over "broken promises." Get over it, every pc development house be it mmo or single/multiplayer game, in every genre, has to drop "promised" features. Or else realize that is why Turbine has to be very careful before they say anything, because heaven forbid it changes later they’ll be treated like they are war criminals on these forums.

#5 Because some are born complainers and are going to complain and be negative no matter how much Turbine communicates.

#6 Because some think they deserve an "insiders" level of information and communication despite a very small financial investment in this game. For other types of software products you'd be paying $1000's per year for this type of privileged, insider access.

Turbine has made communication blunders, don't get me wrong. Not immediately communicating up front for the RoR raids being in the initial release or not was one of them. But to claim that overall Turbine doesn't communicate in enough detail or amount is, in my opinion, just about one of the most absurd and false things I've ever read on these forums.

[Bel-Astarte]

Apparently sarcasm is wasted on forums :P

A non-answer to what I posted may be politic, but it still doesn't address the issue anymore than asking me to read above (which I did). Hence - I rest my case.

Just not an answer you liked.

[manstan]

#1 Because some don't like the answers they hear and start to write trollish propaganda just like you were above by claiming to know what "many" in the community think. Speak for yourself or else it sounds ridiculous.

#2 Because some don't take the time to follow the game, its news, or the dev tracker. It'd be much like a Yankees fan who never watches games nor reads newspaper complain that the Yankees don't release enough information or communicate enough.

#3 Because some lack reading comprehension, which is understandable because sometimes we all (myself included) skim or skip things because we are (in a good or bad way) excited.

#4 Because some can't handle the truth that in all pc games under development, features and systems either get cut or changed. Every computer game I've followed for the past 15 years goes through these type of development cycles and cuts. But if Turbine drops or changes a feature, some people act with such extreme anger over "broken promises." Get over it, every pc development house be it mmo or single/multiplayer game, in every genre, has to drop "promised" features. Or else realize that is why Turbine has to be very careful before they say anything, because heaven forbid it changes later they’ll be treated like they are war criminals on these forums.

#5 Because some are born complainers and are going to complain and be negative no matter how much Turbine communicates.

#6 Because some think they deserve an "insiders" level of information and communication despite a very small financial investment in this game. For other types of software products you'd be paying $1000's per year for this type of privileged, insider access.

Turbine has made communication blunders, don't get me wrong. Not immediately communicating up front for the RoR raids being in the initial release or not was one of them. But to claim that overall Turbine doesn't communicate in enough detail or amount is, in my opinion, just about one of the most absurd and false things I've ever read on these forums.

What he said.
Meaning I read to here and mr toad has said everything I had intended to say; and better.

[webrender]

Read the above. I find it interesting this is rapidly becoming a direct copy of the last thread (which is heavily mapped in the dev tracker should one care to look), where all of this was addressed. including the fact that the dev tracker exists for exactly this purpose.

My trip to the forums everyday starts at the dev tracker and I highly recommend it. It is in fact how I stumbled across this thread. I do agree that this is starting to read just like a thread I saw last week. I am very glad however to get this feedback as to the Turbine back office. How the company manages the staff has a direct impact on future player experience and I know many of us want to see this Middle-Earth journey continue for years to come.

[Levanas]

So Sapience, there will be no forum update untill end of the month (if not delay again for 4th or 5th time), no info about HD pre-orders (how I wish to ask and take answer to: pre-orders and site revamp could be the same time scale?), no "proper" info about the game's future (Miss Kate's letter was a true joke, I'm sorry), at least can you give us a tiny info about "there will be a new patch between HD and 11.2, patch with new content maybe? Or we going to play without anything till HD (6 months, etc?).

So many questions and writing with my poor qualified English, so, sorry.

[Fredelas]

Congratulations, Hannah, on your new job responsibilities!

I don't think Hannah has ever been formally introduced to the LOTRO community before. Perhaps she could take a few moments to tell us about her history with Tolkien, Turbine, LOTRO, and gaming in general.

[Souldan]

Just not an answer you liked.

Liking responses has nothing to do with the point being missed.

[Sapience]

No, his issue would be that inconvenient questions aren't answered at all (in the sense the rest of the world understands 'answer').

But it's pointless arguing this and will result in nothing else than statements to the effect that certain individuals are trying to get threads locked. And, of course, the obligatory reference to 'not liking the answers given'.

SNy

Thank you for providing a perfect example of the very posts you refer to.

[Sapience]

So Sapience, there will be no forum update untill end of the month (if not delay again for 4th or 5th time), no info about HD pre-orders (how I wish to ask and take answer to: pre-orders and site revamp could be the same time scale?), no "proper" info about the game's future (Miss Kate's letter was a true joke, I'm sorry), at least can you give us a tiny info about "there will be a new patch between HD and 11.2, patch with new content maybe? Or we going to play without anything till HD (6 months, etc?).

So many questions and writing with my poor qualified English, so, sorry.

I think this may be the 4th delay on the forums. I expect there may be more. As I've mentioned else where we want this much more smooth than the DDO and AC forum updates. We really don't want to see huge loss of posts, forum names, info, and such. Plus, I have been pretty hardline on the lotteries with the team. it's a launch item and that's that. DDO and AC do not have lotteries. I've not budged on my stance that it's a requirement for launch, so that's part of the dealy.

Helms Deep info, as I keep saying will be released according to our time line and not before. This is ALL HD info. As I mentioned elsewhere I wish that answer were different, but it's not and isn't going to change.

There is no content coming between now and Helms Deep. 11.2 and any other patches will be bug fixes and minor updates to festivals. If you're expecting something like a new region between now and HD, no. You just got one in U11.

Liking responses has nothing to do with the point being missed.

You are entirely correct. Re-read the thread and I'm sure you won't miss it again.

[Cliford]

CSTM quit there podcast & mostly there blog but they didn't abandon the game, they still play.

Actually at biggining of episode 200 I belive I heard Merric said that he playing Rift now.

[Legonist]

Dev chats with hundreds of direct questions asked and answered. Hundreds of dev posts this year with answers to questions. Not to mention my own (I'm not a dev so I don't count my answers with theirs). A 20 Questions post with long standing questions ansered just a few weeks ago, another 20 questions coming later this week. Plans for future Twitter Dev chats later this month. A number of threads recently where I've personally answered very direct questions with very direct answers in both general forums and PvMP forums.

So I'm going to have to assume I, or someone, hasn't personally answered your question. So feel free to ask it (and I bet I answered it somewhere recently).

Why are there still Hunter Legendary traits that are not used by anyone and that haven't been updated since i joined this game way back when. I mean no one uses Bow of Righteousness and Press Onward isn't even as most other classes self heals (most aren't even legendary). I know class revamps are coming but why have these things been ignored for so long.

On a side note besides for you Sapience i have seen many many people say they think that turbine devs don't care about what we have to say (class devs namely and PVMP) because if you don't make any moves to show it, how are we to know if you care or not if you don't make an act to show it (we can't read your mind... most can't).

Answer if you can. Sorry if im a little blunt, these are things which for years have been issues for me and are my main causes of leaving the game.

[Souldan]

You are entirely correct. Re-read the thread and I'm sure you won't miss it again.

As stated: I read it. Your attempts to be clever aside, it's not worth repeating.

[Cazthelm]

Actually at biggining of episode 200 I belive I heard Merric said that he playing Rift now.

They both been trying RIFT (feeling tempted to try it myself) but they still play LOTRO.

[spelunker]

I've answered that in another thread as well. In fact that was a large portion of the entire discussion. Simply put, the same reason you see people post that the game is unavailable and they don't know why despite the fact that the launcher (literally in front of their faces)- in three languages, the forums - in three languages, Facebook - in three languages, and Twitter all say there is maintenance and downtime at the time of their post and the game is unavailable, yet they have not bothered to read the message.

Someone, and I know people hate this example, recently asked why we refuse to answer the question about whether or not we will be making a new PvMP map. Despite the fact we've said no a dozen times and repeated it a dozen more (and links to these answers in the Twitter dev chat were in the launcher - again directly in front of your face when you log in). There are many examples I can give like this.

How did Einstein define insanity?

*Incoming constructive criticism*

There are certainly a number of issues that come up in this forum where the misunderstanding is on the community members side (when will the servers be up?), but since you brought up the PvMP map, lets look at something from the other perspective.

What's a hot-button issue in the forums right now, and a really big one for you? The forum revamp!!! Whats the most up-to-date information on when this will be released? The thread started by you in the community site sub-forum was last updated in April and merely gives 'soon' as a timetable. The official '20 questions' thread says its slated for the end of June (2 weeks ago). Did I miss some other official source announcement about when our new forums are coming out? Of course I did.

Buried in the responses to the '20 questions' discussion is a one-line response from you saying it has been delayed till early July (after the 4th). Now today, after the 4th (so around when we'd expect their release, we are getting an update from you about this timetable saying it is moved back again. In a thread titled " LoTRO's new Senior Producer?"

Do you see how this can be confusing for people? Even if people checked the Dev tracker, they might see that you've posted 5+ times in this post, but could care less about who is producing the game, or about the discussion of the '20 questions' thread and thus would never know about this ever-evolving timetable that they may in fact care about deeply. I for one am greatly looking forward to not having to remember to ctrl+a, ctrl+c every time I post something longer than 2 sentences.

Moving from the criticism to the constructive. The very top sub-forum on the forums overview page is an announcements one. which currently contains 5 locked threads, 1 stickied announcing helm's Deep (do you need a sticky in a 5 thread sub-forum?), and
4 threads announcing the most recent lotro store sales. Maybe when you see people asking questions about issues like this (in the wrong place) and you decide to respond, make a 2-sentence thread there where its easier to find, and the thread title reflects what is being announced.

The previous twitter chats and the current 20 questions concept are solid enough ideas, though they tend to be a bit amorphous. Especially with the 20 questions style where not a ton of different information can be presented, why not make it completely topic driven. So rather than 20 random questions, or like in the twitter chat where one main topic was supposed to be PvMP and 6 or 7 answers were scattered throughout 40-50 other random topics, have "20 questions on PvMP" or "20 questions on Raiding" or "20 questions on crafting." If they were made this specific, you could likely even knock things down to 10 questions and come out with one every 2-3 weeks, rather than 20 at whats shaping to be once a month at best.

Timetables. When an announcement is made that involves something happening at an indeterminate date, give a determinate date when we will have an update on progress. Paid services have been down for 4 months, with nothing beyond a sticky saying they are down and will be back, possibly with updates. Surely you know it will or won't be available in the next month. Maybe update us on this every month saying: 'this service is not expected to be available in the next month. We will update you at the end of the month about the status of paid services.' Does an update to the sticky of that nature every month really take more effort than having to lock dozens of threads asking for exactly that information?

[Bel-Astarte]

The previous twitter chats and the current 20 questions concept are solid enough ideas, though they tend to be a bit amorphous. Especially with the 20 questions style where not a ton of different information can be presented, why not make it completely topic driven. So rather than 20 random questions, or like in the twitter chat where one main topic was supposed to be PvMP and 6 or 7 answers were scattered throughout 40-50 other random topics, have "20 questions on PvMP" or "20 questions on Raiding" or "20 questions on crafting." If they were made this specific, you could likely even knock things down to 10 questions and come out with one every 2-3 weeks, rather than 20 at whats shaping to be once a month at best.

Timetables. When an announcement is made that involves something happening at an indeterminate date, give a determinate date when we will have an update on progress. Paid services have been down for 4 months, with nothing beyond a sticky saying they are down and will be back, possibly with updates. Surely you know it will or won't be available in the next month. Maybe update us on this every month saying: 'this service is not expected to be available in the next month. We will update you at the end of the month about the status of paid services.' Does an update to the sticky of that nature every month really take more effort than having to lock dozens of threads asking for exactly that information?

These two suggestions in particular seem to me to be very useful in making communications more robust for a larger number of non-dev-tracker junkies, like me.

[Levanas]

I think this may be the 4th delay on the forums. I expect there may be more. As I've mentioned else where we want this much more smooth than the DDO and AC forum updates. We really don't want to see huge loss of posts, forum names, info, and such. Plus, I have been pretty hardline on the lotteries with the team. it's a launch item and that's that. DDO and AC do not have lotteries. I've not budged on my stance that it's a requirement for launch, so that's part of the dealy.

Helms Deep info, as I keep saying will be released according to our time line and not before. This is ALL HD info. As I mentioned elsewhere I wish that answer were different, but it's not and isn't going to change.

There is no content coming between now and Helms Deep. 11.2 and any other patches will be bug fixes and minor updates to festivals. If you're expecting something like a new region between now and HD, no. You just got one in U11.




You are entirely correct. Re-read the thread and I'm sure you won't miss it again.

Well, I just asked about "any new content", even for a tiny quest pack, not an Wildermore-like region (cause you answered that region questions before ).

It's "really" gonna be interesting, that we must play the same content, without any new (even an tiny new) "anything".
No pre order, no info, no info about "future of Lotro",..well...nothing new on Lotro.

(We're not blaming you dear Sapience, as you know. It's all about the bosses of the Lotro project).

And one last thing. I'm terrible sorry but must say; yes there's some answers, some answers which is says "almost" nothing or telling the same things, not new-things. Sorry.

P.S. I'm not an complainer, doom-caller or hater, but bored a bit after all this years (with like this examples).

[Seedly]

Currently slated for the end of the month (though I did previously say after the 4th).

Lotteries and forum account migrations are the current sticking points.

Single most awesome information update in the thread!

I know you hate giving dates for anything because stuff happens (hence the need for the Soon™ system), but this is the perfect example of what I think people want to hear when dates changes or expectations arent met. I know there isnt always a clear answer, but I for one appreciate it being passed along when there is. I know the why (i.e. Lotteries and forum accounts) doesnt really change anything for me...but it does give me perspective on where things are at and what to expect.

So thanks.

[Souldan]

Red dotting comments in this thread because you didn't appreciate them is ludicrous. Nothing I stated violated any CoC.

[SNy-lotrolinux-EU]

Lastly a question that I havent seen answered here. How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?

The answer, depending on whom you ask, would either be threlve or forty-two, for obvious reasons.

HTH,
SNy