The Last Straw for FreeToPlay

[angus_hunter]

Ive been reading some of the forum posts about HD and I am horrified
The Epic Storyline..is now for VIP's only.
HORRIFIED
Thats it, FreeToPlay is now FreeToSuffer
Turbine fix it, or you'll lose all your people to RIFT, DDO, RoM and WoW.

[Ashford]

Hello all,

Well, actually not for VIPs but for those who will buy HD. You do not need to be a VIP to buy HD.

There is, however, one point which I do not understand about the fact that epic quest line will not be for free anymore with the arrival of HD. Does it mean that all epic quests beyond Lone Lands will have to be bought with respective questpacks/extensions or just Volume III Book 13 which is based on the big battle system will not be available for free? And what about next books which will follow Book 13? Will they be for free again? And if yes, will we be given an option to skip Book 13 at all (as it is possible for some previous epic books) and continue with Book 14?

Thanks for answer
Ashford

[Mildford]

It's really not hard to search. Seriously, it took me less than a minute to find this, and I had not heard of any news regarding epic story gated by expansion before.

Sure thing.

Requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion pack

• Battle of Helm's Deep (Epic Battles).
• Epic Story.
• Western Rohan/Helm's Deep Content (Quests).

Does not require Expansion Pack Purchase

• Class Changes.
• Level Cap increase.
• Additional Crafting Tier.

Presumably only the 3 books coming with HD would require the expansion.

[Grimdi]

The way I interpret the official comment: All quests in HD require that you own HD, independent of epic/regional/instance. That already is a major policy change. They won't start gating existing content (that would really alienate F2P players and might be legally questionable). Not sure where you've seen any mention of book 13 being about Epic Battles, but my guess is that following epic storylines will also be gated by region unlock if they can push this through.

[Peresbert]

I'd just call them out on business planning. They reneged on their stand "The Epic is and always will be free" that they advertised since F2P. This does hurt her the perspective of including all of your in a "Big Battle" which I thought were going to be gated behind simple epic quests in turn which would make them free.

[Tobias_R]

Ive been reading some of the forum posts about HD and I am horrified
The Epic Storyline..is now for VIP's only.
HORRIFIED
Thats it, FreeToPlay is now FreeToSuffer
Turbine fix it, or you'll lose all your people to RIFT, DDO, RoM and WoW.

Just to clear up one thing:

F2P-, Premium- and VIP-players are all in the same situation. All have to buy Helms Deep to be able to finish the epics. No one gets it for free.

Regards
/T

[Barrynor]

Just to clear up one thing:

F2P-, Premium- and VIP-players are all in the same situation. All have to buy Helms Deep to be able to finish the epics. No one gets it for free.

Regards
/T

This is correct. Mind you, I'm a lifer, and I've played this game on and of for about four years... I dont mind paying for content, at all, I dished out $600 for this game in total I think on subs, lifetime, expansions and the lot, but I do mind it when something is promised, has stood always, and is then changed with no previous explanation of how and why.


Therefore I can ask what is, given this circumstances, a valid question: Why did you, Turbine/WB, supplier of my Middle Earth MMO, change policy on the Epic Quest-line? I'd prefer an honest answer and not some shadows and mirrors-type of reply, because then I'll put it down to "we need more cash" ( a valid answer in itself, if given straight up).

[Peresbert]

Therefore I can ask what is, given this circumstances, a valid question: Why did you, Turbine/WB, supplier of my Middle Earth MMO, change policy on the Epic Quest-line? I'd prefer an honest answer and not some shadows and mirrors-type of reply, because then I'll put it down to "we need more cash" ( a valid answer in itself, if given straight up).

I think it is a "We need more money" plea. LotRO is the cash cow. But what they also may not see is that F2P epics has led to people purchasing extra expacs and qps because they liked what they saw. I know many VIPs who wait for a while after an expansion is launched to purchase. They do epics and so on to pass their time until they purchase for their various reasons. The fact it is all purely purchase gated shocks me. I would think subs and lifers could have had access to non-epic related "Big Battles". It may be WB sticking a fork in itself.

[HunterGreen]

But what they also may not see is that F2P epics has led to people purchasing extra expacs and qps because they liked what they saw.

I'm sure they've done the math about this factor and know it as well as the limitations of marketing "science" allow. But it doesn't take a detailed analysis to conclude that if you've played the free material far enough to get to level 86 and still haven't bought something, one more book of the epic is not likely to make you change your mind. As long as the content to level ~30 plus the epic from there to 85 remains free, I think they're getting all they can hope to get out of the "samples make sales" factor, and I think they know that better than we do.

[Snabur]

Ive been reading some of the forum posts about HD and I am horrified
The Epic Storyline..is now for VIP's only.
HORRIFIED
Thats it, FreeToPlay is now FreeToSuffer
Turbine fix it, or you'll lose all your people to RIFT, DDO, RoM and WoW.

First of all: Vips dont get the epics too, you need to purchase HD.
Second: Why Turbine need to worry about f2p players? If you're Free2play you NEVER put ANY money in the game to help mantain it. IMO if you want to play every epic in the game and go till level cap (no matter how much grind you need to do) you need give some money to Turbine, you're using the awesome content Turbine do without help them keep the game going and still complain.....
Thanks SO much Turbine, the Epics should be a extra for who purchase the exp packs.

PS: Sorry if i'm being rude, but i cant understand someone complaining about a company dont giving the best type of quests the game has to offer for free since you never put a dolar to help them mantain the game. It's like complain with Ferrari for not giving you the best car they have for free....

[Jonin]

Ive been reading some of the forum posts about HD and I am horrified
The Epic Storyline..is now for VIP's only.
HORRIFIED
Thats it, FreeToPlay is now FreeToSuffer
Turbine fix it, or you'll lose all your people to RIFT, DDO, RoM and WoW.

That is incorrect

[goldensilence]

First of all: Vips dont get the epics too, you need to purchase HD.
Second: Why Turbine need to worry about f2p players? If you're Free2play you NEVER put ANY money in the game to help mantain it. IMO if you want to play every epic in the game and go till level cap (no matter how much grind you need to do) you need give some money to Turbine, you're using the awesome content Turbine do without help them keep the game going and still complain.....
Thanks SO much Turbine, the Epics should be a extra for who purchase the exp packs.

PS: Sorry if i'm being rude, but i cant understand someone complaining about a company dont giving the best type of quests the game has to offer for free since you never put a dolar to help them mantain the game. It's like complain with Ferrari for not giving you the best car they have for free....

agreed. people get what? hundreds and hundreds of hours of LOTRO enjoyment for free and get upset at the prospect of having to pay anything? what's the old saying? no such thing as a free lunch. well, lunch time has arrived.

[Thorwyn99]

Turbine fix it, or you'll lose all your people to RIFT, DDO, RoM and WoW.

I find that just a tiny bit ironic :P

[Kahlius]

So you want to do the epic storyline in Helm's Deep without having to buy the expansion for Helm's Deep? Is that what I'm reading? Wow.

[cossieuk]

So you want to do the epic storyline in Helm's Deep without having to buy the expansion for Helm's Deep? Is that what I'm reading? Wow.

What is wrong with people wanting to do what they have been able to do for the last few years, and something that Turbine promised they would always be able to do and play the epic quest line free of charge.

[goldensilence]

What is wrong with people wanting to do what they have been able to do for the last few years, and something that Turbine promised they would always be able to do and play the epic quest line free of charge.

the attitude. not realizing that they've enjoyed hundreds of hours of free play. not being thankful for that. instead whining about having to now consider paying to help support the development of new content. not realizing that the people developing this game, marketing this game, all have families to support and don't work for free.

yes, i understand that it was stated that the epic story line would always be free. however, maybe, just maybe due to the maturity of the game, the economy and possibly fewer paying players than in the past, in order to continue to keep the game going, they need to now ask that if people want to continue past 85, chip in just a bit to the cause.

[Thorwyn99]

the attitude. not realizing that they've enjoyed hundreds of hours of free play. not being thankful for that. instead whining about having to now consider paying to help support the development of new content. not realizing that the people developing this game, marketing this game, all have families to support and don't work for free.

yes, i understand that it was stated that the epic story line would always be free. however, maybe, just maybe due to the maturity of the game, the economy and possibly decreasing paying players, in order to continue to keep the game going, they need to now ask that if people want to continue past 85, chip in just a bit to the cause.

They don't offer the free epics out of the goodness of their heart either, it's generally a good tool to get people to try a region and possibly get them to buy it. Which makes the change even more of a headscratcher.
Besides if you can't be sure a promise holds true even years down the road then simply don't make it.

[goldensilence]

They don't offer the free epics out of the goodness of their heart either, it's generally a good tool to get people to try a region and possibly get them to buy it. Which makes the change even more of a headscratcher.
Besides if you can't be sure a promise holds true even years down the road then simply don't make it.

true, it is a confusing departure.

still, i can't understand how people can get upset about totally free to level 85 after hundreds of hours play. and that's just one toon. make it that far and get bored, just roll an alt. sorry, my mind can't wrap itself around continuing to expect free. this game gives you more for free that any others that i've tried.

generally i'll try true f2p games. if i enjoy them i always donate to the cause to help support it. i know it takes a great deal of money to develop and run games like this and if i enjoy it i'm more than willing to pitch in. if i don't like it i simply delete the game and move on.

[cossieuk]

true, it is a confusing departure.

still, i can't understand how people can get upset about totally free to level 85 after hundreds of hours play. and that's just one toon. make it that far and get bored, just roll an alt. sorry, my mind can't wrap itself around continuing to expect free. this game gives you more for free that any others that i've tried.

generally i'll try true f2p games. if i enjoy them i always donate to the cause to help support it. i know it takes a great deal of money to develop and run games like this and if i enjoy it i'm more than willing to pitch in. if i don't like it i simply delete the game and move on.

For me it is not about what is free and what is not free, it is the fact they gave a promise and are now going back on it. It is also not the first time they have done so. When they were talking about F2P and the store they said it would not sell gear but now it sells low level gear. When they said they were bringing the low level gear to the store they said it wont sell end game gear, now I have lost all confidence in that claim.

Also if you make a promise but are unable to keep it at a future date, at least apologize for not being able to keep it.

[goldensilence]

For me it is not about what is free and what is not free, it is the fact they gave a promise and are now going back on it. It is also not the first time they have done so. When they were talking about F2P and the store they said it would not sell gear but now it sells low level gear. When they said they were bringing the low level gear to the store they said it wont sell end game gear, now I have lost all confidence in that claim.

Also if you make a promise but are unable to keep it at a future date, at least apologize for not being able to keep it.

i will agree that they 'stated' the epic line would always be f2p. i don't believe you can find the words 'we promise' anywhere near that statement (if you can find 'we promise', you can eat your hat :P lol). people have a tendency to take simple statements like that as rock solid promises even though a promise was never implied or given. most also fail to take into consideration changing business environment, economic conditions and other factors and show a little understanding that conditions are no longer the same as when the original statement was made.

but yes, i agree that they at least need to come out and explain the rationale behind their decision to make this change. at the same time i'm pretty sure it would be difficult to word in a way as to not cause an uproar amongst the paying customer base....

[Rufkin]

Therefore I can ask what is, given this circumstances, a valid question: Why did you, Turbine/WB, supplier of my Middle Earth MMO, change policy on the Epic Quest-line? I'd prefer an honest answer and not some shadows and mirrors-type of reply, because then I'll put it down to "we need more cash" ( a valid answer in itself, if given straight up).

It was already confirmed by Sapience that the reason the Epic Quests are tied to the HD purchase is because the Big/Epic Battles are integrated into those quests. This is their number one sell for HD and they cannot give it away for free.

[Thorwyn99]

i will agree that they 'stated' the epic line would always be f2p. i don't believe you can find the words 'we promise' anywhere near that statement (if you can find 'we promise', you can eat your hat :P lol). people have a tendency to take simple statements like that as rock solid promises even though a promise was never implied or given. most also fail to take into consideration changing business environment, economic conditions and other factors and show a little understanding that conditions are no longer the same as when the original statement was made.

but yes, i agree that they at least need to come out and explain the rationale behind their decision to make this change. at the same time i'm pretty sure it would be difficult to word in a way as to not cause an uproar amongst the paying customer base....

I think i remember that the part about the epic line was a promise or what i would understand as one but i can't prove it right now :P. A promise is a promise no change in realities should make you break one hence if you're not sure don't promise :P.
It seems they have gotten smarter and use plan and might change more often though. Of course people will always rage none the less, for me personally it does make a difference though.

Besides the promise part and finding the change generally a stupid decision i have no stake in the whole thing since i plan on buying HD from what i read so far, just mainly waiting on some more info on Big Battles.
Edit: Just for the record Forces out of my control "persuaded" me to prepurchase HD so this statement doesn't hold true anymore :P

[Thorwyn99]

It was already confirmed by Sapience that the reason the Epic Quests are tied to the HD purchase is because the Big/Epic Battles are integrated into those quests. This is their number one sell for HD and they cannot give it away for free.

That is the actual thing i find the most baffling, the Epic line should be the perfect thing to show of the big battles, getting more people to buy them, just put limitations on it for people not owning the expansion. But oh well.

[goldensilence]

I think i remember that the part about the epic line was a promise or what i would understand as one but i can't prove it right now :P. A promise is a promise no change in realities should make you break one hence if you're not sure don't promise :P.
It seems they have gotten smarter and use plan and might change more often though. Of course people will always rage none the less, for me personally it does make a difference though.

Besides the promise part and finding the change generally a stupid decision i have no stake in the whole thing since i plan on buying HD from what i read so far, just mainly waiting on some more info on Big Battles.

just don't take a statement and turn it into 'what you would understand to a promise'.

otherwise, agreed. and ditto on buying it. but i'll be waiting no matter what as my highest toon just got to rohan.

[DanteIL]

Well I'm curious to see what they do for the round of Epic Book that comes *after* Helm's Deep.

If the Helm's Deep Books are gated behind purchase of the expansion, then it would make no sense to offer the Epics that follow for F2P. So, until the next Volume starts (Gondor?), it seems fairly certain that the Epic=F2P enticement is dead.

And the point isn't that a player would get to Level 85 "for free" and not be willing to pony up $$ for the HD pack. The point is that the Epic Books being open to all and able to experienced by everyone has always been a major marketing point. I started LOTRO shortly after F2P started, and although I eventually went VIP, I appreciated the fact that Turbine recognized that the central storyline -- which separates out this game from other similar games -- was special enough to be available to all. Every new quest pack and region that came down the pike, from Enedwaith to Dunland to Great River to Rohan -- this was always part of the information: "And don't worry, players who do not purchase the region can still follow the Epic storyline." I'm sure that Turbine has internal metrics that let them know how many people took them up on this, and perhaps that number is vanishingly small, but the principle of going back on this rubs me the wrong way.