Punch Back. A Call to Arms!

[Squelcher]

An excellent idea! Come on over!

I've got a tribe to run and a game of thrones to play on my own server, unfortunately.

[Isilmacil]

How I wish Nimrodel could follow these ideas. Commonly I try to promote both sides working to get the best action it can. However, my methods include allowing one side to get some kills if the other is dominating (doesn't matter which side is dominating). Sadly, Nim has the zerg or be zerged mentality.

Not to mention with our low server population, its almost impossible to find action if you're away from the main sighting (which makes my reaver very sad).

While Creeps do persevere, I would only want raid leaders when fraid vs craid is the only option, to allow both sides to get good kills.

P.S. come back to Nim Geirs, we missss you :P

[jackzilla1212]

I wish to begin by saying that Hinellas of Riddermark inspired me to make this thread.

Her original thread (and it is full of awesomeness) is here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...y-Observations

So, let me guess. Like me, all of you are probably stuck on some server where the PvP is terrible. Freeps are overpowered. Freeps probably have close to (if not) superior numbers by now. (I've never seen the ON buff creepside this many times on my server). Just about every Freep is a Warden, Lore-master, Captain, Runekeeper, or Minstrel, right? Do you make small creep groups to match, and sometimes wipe them a few times? Then they come back with even larger numbers, wipe you, flip the map, and camp Grams and sit on the keeps right? I'm almost certain that, like me, you are sick and tired of the same routine over and over and over again, every time you log on. Are you really tired of it? Do you want to do something about it? Searching for a solution? Here's mine:

Punch Back

They make a fraid? You go put together a craid. They heal-stack groups by grabbing all the healers out of the woodwork? You go get some Warleaders and Defilers. Put together a Warg-Pack and take those healers out, or slow em down. They want to play the OP musical chairs game? Fine, play it with em. If they flip all the OP's, make it your business to flip em all back. They're camping Grams? Put together a craid and wipe em. Push them back to the rez and turn the tables on them.

Time and time again, Freeps have shown they're scared of us. I'm sure all of you have seen (at one point) Freeps with superior numbers hiding in some rez or keep from a Creep group of lesser numbers and, occasionally, lesser experience and rank. Without a raid-leader, many Freeps can't do jack. So don't be afraid to push them. They will fall back.

Once upon a time, I believed that Creeps alone could help shape PvP with their gameplay actions. Funny right? Boy, was I wrong. It takes both sides to make PvP better. Many (I said many, not all. Those who care know who they are.) Freeps have proven again and again that they don't care. They couldn't care less about camping greenies at the rez or at Grams. They don't care if the action dies. They don't care and will probably deny that they are overpowered as they run away, blowing all their CDs. If they don't care, why should we? It takes two sides to make this work, not just one. They have shown that they are not willing to make that commitment. So, A Eruchîn, ú-dano i faelas a hyn an uben tanatha le faelas....show them no mercy, for you shall receive none. This is not a call to go around zerging and interrupting 1v1's...this is a call to not let up on Freeps. Not one bit. For they would not show you any if they were in your shoes.

I challenge everyone who this threads speaks to, and holds some meaning for (I hope I didn't waste half and hour typing this for no reason) to post this or it's link on their server's PvP section.

So for those who went "ew tl;dr" :P. STAND, CREEPS OF THE MOORS!

Would be the exact opposite on our server, we make a six man, they go straight to craid... Well, then again there are alot of gold taggers, but whatcha gonna do.

[jackzilla1212]

On Landy, freeps only show up with numbers and over-the-top healing.

Yet, creeps counter them until the GLFF siren goes off. Heal stacking (to a point) can be countered by fighting in open field battles - not letting them aoe and cc you into oblivion. Usually with each successful freep wipe, healing numbers increase until the point that it gets impossible to do any kind of damage. Try fighting 39+ with 9 minis, 5 rks, 5 lms, 5 captains vs a creep raid of 21 - lucky to get 1 or 2 kills before a wipe. Usually by then, the freeps will wipe the map blue, some flip creepside then start fight clubs to farm each other.

Sadly, even with the heal stacked godmode faceroll freeps utilize - they continue to use spies (creep alts/friends to spy chat or follow craid and report positions via TS).

...Are you high?

[sarefx]

On Landy, freeps only show up with numbers and over-the-top healing.

Yet, creeps counter them until the GLFF siren goes off. Heal stacking (to a point) can be countered by fighting in open field battles - not letting them aoe and cc you into oblivion. Usually with each successful freep wipe, healing numbers increase until the point that it gets impossible to do any kind of damage. Try fighting 39+ with 9 minis, 5 rks, 5 lms, 5 captains vs a creep raid of 21 - lucky to get 1 or 2 kills before a wipe. Usually by then, the freeps will wipe the map blue, some flip creepside then start fight clubs to farm each other.

Sadly, even with the heal stacked godmode faceroll freeps utilize - they continue to use spies (creep alts/friends to spy chat or follow craid and report positions via TS).

Thats before or after freepside with pop buff every night? lol please, freeps do own creeps on landy because of incompetent creep leaders. As a freep leader on landy I barely able to get 24 freeps most of the time in my raid even with glff call outs, fighting 2 craids. I praise a lord if I can get atleast 1 dedicated healer in each group which rarely happens. Anyways less QQ, more pew pew. If you guys wanna see REAL action on landy come and see for your self, but dont take word from CRUSHUC, he is servers typical QQer and Trash talker, that will say anything to release anger that builds up inside.

[Selebrimbor]

Message me on Imessupkeepflips, or ask for Evil in ooc.

Be warned, if I do decide to check it out, I will most likely just roll a greenie. I'm rather short on funds atm and transfers aren't cheap.

That said, I'll probably check it out tonight.

Also, just a request, lets try to keep server promos to a minimum :P.

Just wanted to say that my post is a statement of what I've seen on my own server, and what I've heard about others...the problem seem to the same wherever you go, however.

[JigsawEarth]

Thats before or after freepside with pop buff every night? lol please, freeps do own creeps on landy because of incompetent creep leaders. As a freep leader on landy I barely able to get 24 freeps most of the time in my raid even with glff call outs, fighting 2 craids. I praise a lord if I can get atleast 1 dedicated healer in each group which rarely happens. Anyways less QQ, more pew pew. If you guys wanna see REAL action on landy come and see for your self, but dont take word from CRUSHUC, he is servers typical QQer and Trash talker, that will say anything to release anger that builds up inside.

LoL, just stop the compete lies. 7 LM's, 5 mini's, 5 RK's, 3-4 Cappy's. Then top that off with when you do get wiped, you hit sprinty boots and store run buff to flee as to try not to die, cause it would bruise your hole.

That's when you haven't already hit the flee buttons when only half your raid is dead.

[JigsawEarth]

Please excuse the Landy Freeps that have recently been very vocal in other parts of the forums.

We don't feed them in the server forums, so they have had to go elsewhere to get the ego stroking reassurance

[jackzilla1212]

LoL, just stop the compete lies. 7 LM's, 5 mini's, 5 RK's, 3-4 Cappy's. Then top that off with when you do get wiped, you hit sprinty boots and store run buff to flee as to try not to die, cause it would bruise your hole.

That's when you haven't already hit the flee buttons when only half your raid is dead.

You... you do know that lms, and rks are mostly dps right? A raid healer does not an lm make, and rks are wasted as healers.

[CRUSHUC]

Thats before or after freepside with pop buff every night? lol please, freeps do own creeps on landy because of incompetent creep leaders. As a freep leader on landy I barely able to get 24 freeps most of the time in my raid even with glff call outs, fighting 2 craids. I praise a lord if I can get atleast 1 dedicated healer in each group which rarely happens. Anyways less QQ, more pew pew. If you guys wanna see REAL action on landy come and see for your self, but dont take word from CRUSHUC, he is servers typical QQer and Trash talker, that will say anything to release anger that builds up inside.

Really Mil?

For one, I am not a typical QQer and trash talker. Do you even know who I am creepside? Check around, have your spies check as well.
I do not take this game as seriously as others do - so next time before you label someone, do a little research.

I described a fight that recently happened, whats wrong with that? It was 39+ vs 21. Is it like that everynight, no. And you are correct, most nights there are more creeps than freeps. But there does seem to be a movement where the freep raids have become healstacked and tactical. Again what's wrong with that? Nothing, only the creeps have to find a way to combat it.

Hinras, I have no comment - I know you, and I'll leave it at that.

[sarefx]

You... you do know that lms, and rks are mostly dps right? A raid healer does not an lm make, and rks are wasted as healers.

Ok, dont argue with creeps QQers =) I learned my lesson, its better talk to a wall than creeps with NO COMMON SENSE. As far as landy creep math goes, here it is 4 cappies, 6 rks, 5 lms, 6 minis = 36 dedicated healers because cappies pet count as healer, rk stone counts as a healer, and lm pet counts as a healer

[Moors-Battlemaster]

I've got a tribe to run and a game of thrones to play on my own server, unfortunately.

Ah, you are in the same position I once was. Best of luck with the Game of Thrones, winning it took 3 1/2 years here :P

Be warned, if I do decide to check it out, I will most likely just roll a greenie. I'm rather short on funds atm and transfers aren't cheap.

That said, I'll probably check it out tonight.

Send me a forum PM

You... you do know that lms, and rks are mostly dps right? A raid healer does not an lm make, and rks are wasted as healers.

I must disagree-Healing rk's are an exceptionally power boon to a freep raid. I dread 4 healing rks more than 8 healing minstrels tbh. The potency of their single target heals nullifies creep dps almost instantly.

[jackzilla1212]

Ok, dont argue with creeps QQers =) I learned my lesson, its better talk to a wall than creeps with NO COMMON SENSE. As far as landy creep math goes, here it is 4 cappies, 6 rks, 5 lms, 6 minis = 36 dedicated healers because cappies pet count as healer, rk stone counts as a healer, and lm pet counts as a healer

Welp, guess I should start counting Ba's as healers.

[sarefx]

I must disagree-Healing rk's are an exceptionally power boon to a freep raid. I dread 4 healing rks more than 8 healing minstrels tbh. The potency of their single target heals nullifies creep dps almost instantly.

In my opinion bad rk healer is worse than bad mini healer. Good rk healer is better than good mini. When there are very few good rks and mini and more bad ones, than on average it makes mini better healers. Thats the way I see it.

[jackzilla1212]

Ah, you are in the same position I once was. Best of luck with the Game of Thrones, winning it took 3 1/2 years here :P



Send me a forum PM



I must disagree-Healing rk's are an exceptionally power boon to a freep raid. I dread 4 healing rks more than 8 healing minstrels tbh. The potency of their single target heals nullifies creep dps almost instantly.

Yeah, I just prefer the dps as we have some good minstrels. Plus having rks go heals when the minstrels are there is over kill, and not really fair.

[xmorzan]

Ladies please. I've watched both sides form up enough times to know that neither side "stacks" their raid with healers. The leaders (Chili and Milnor) open a raid and get what they get. Sometimes the luck of the draw gives you a lot of healers, sometimes it doesn't.

But GuardofMiddleEarth, I know who you are and I don't think it's normally like you to misrepresent the pvp conditions on Landy. I'm sure at times the creeps have been outnumbered but those nights are anomalies and as a whole, creepside night to night easily has more people. Another problem our server has (which seems to plague others as well) is this idea that if your class has healing potential, it's labeled a healer regardless of what they're doing. You should all know that Milnor NEVER traits healing, and you should be able to distinguish a healing RK with a dps one. I mean, I know that defilers and warleaders are always going to be healing in your raids, making it easier to count healers creepside, but it's not like that with freeps.

How bad is it that you're willing to say freeps stack 18-20 healers, theoretically leaving 4 dpsers to take down your craid? Lastly, though it happens both sides, creeps have blown up 1v1 circles way more times than freeps have. If that side was less concerned with how others enjoy this game and more concerned with how they themselves had fun, there wouldn't be nearly as many people in the freep raid.

[ContraMundum]

Going to punch back with your wet noodle greenie arms?

The OP and friends are the same freeps who roll around in a raid killing soloers on our server, then when the full time creeps decide to raid up (very rarely) get rolled twice then log off. They're having some drama freep side and now lucky us get these heroes taking up our cause lol (I give them 3 weeks max, then never be seen creep side again).

[Selebrimbor]

Going to punch back with your wet noodle greenie arms?

The OP and friends are the same freeps who roll around in a raid killing soloers on our server, then when the full time creeps decide to raid up (very rarely) get rolled twice then log off. They're having some drama freep side and now lucky us get these heroes taking up our cause lol (I give them 3 weeks max, then never be seen creep side again).

I don't even have a level capped Freep, Mob, nor have I ever set foot in the moors as Freep. I also have no love for Revo or it's pathetic zergging practices. You should re-check your facts.

[Grumpisaw]

Going to punch back with your wet noodle greenie arms?

The OP and friends are the same freeps who roll around in a raid killing soloers on our server, then when the full time creeps decide to raid up (very rarely) get rolled twice then log off. They're having some drama freep side and now lucky us get these heroes taking up our cause lol (I give them 3 weeks max, then never be seen creep side again).

That's Revo, not Sele.

[Squelcher]

Best of luck with the Game of Thrones, winning it took 3 1/2 years here :P

Well I've already effectively won it, but that doesn't mean I have stopped playing it.

[MessyR]

Great read OP. Nice to see.

I would love to see turbine stop 24 man groups in the moors.

12 should be the maximum. This would go along way to helping in the moors.

[Selebrimbor]

I would love to see turbine stop 24 man groups in the moors.

12 should be the maximum. This would go along way to helping in the moors.

That would be a good solution to the problem. It makes me think of the PvP buff idea...perhaps if that is ever implemented (lol), that could be included with it. Grouping is really hurting the Moors right now imo. It's zerg or be zergged.