Minstrel Feedback on Helm's Deep

[Gedrevn]

Any beta testers with positive things to say about the minstrel changes in Helm's Deep? From all the feedback I'm reading so far, it sounds unfortunately like Orion's changes and direction were completely abandoned, and the devs did not listen to any player feedback about the class changes.

Here's what I'm seeing so far,

I was/am a beta tester from the first beta. The changes to my main class, Minstrel, have been soul crushing. I did a lot of testing and gave a lot of feedback during Beta #1 (as did many others). Unfortunately, NOTHING had changed for us in Beta #2. Minstrel was generally regarded as the most "alpha state" of all the classes. There have been some slight tweaks and modifications for Minstrels, but I still consider the class severely impaired.

The uncontested loser is the minstrel. (Because this is the class I've spent the most testing time on, and this is the class that looks downright atrocious, I'll give you guys the most input here.) This class hit beta in a disaster state...Despite nearly unanimous negative feedback, this class has received no design changes from day one onward...The changes are implemented in an incredibly confusing manner, and even the class dev seems confused by the stance purposes and trait-line-alignment... the stance bonuses and skill alterations are jumbled around and not linked properly with the proper stance. I'm not even going to pretend to try to explain things as they are right now, because it's still awful. To Orion's credit he listened to the negative feedback ages ago and dropped the changes (leaving two toggleable stances and a "null" stance, reverting back to the name War-Speech that we'd always known, as we see it now on live). Unfortunately, no feedback whatsoever has been accepted this time around. In fact, a blatant disregard for feedback on this class has been the hallmark of this beta

Pure healing is insanely OP right now... honestly... I've not let anyone die in beta... and I've been so bored by the healing because I have less to do, not being able to buff anymore other than 1 buff at a time, that I've found myself drifting into watching tv as I'm running content. Damage is the same as always really, a little less on the skill rotations because some skills have been moved and locked into other trait lines (for instance, call of the second age, randomly now locked on healing). Yellow line is same as always not the best design and needs many changes in order to truly be viable as a standalone build. The number of problems with skills awkwardly being locked into other lines and you having no ability to reach them, incorrect bonuses or skill alterations, issues with stances, loss of hybridization from live, etc., are truly innumerable (yes, right now, currently, two weeks out). And I don't want to skim over that last one in the list there... there is a definite LOSS of hybridization from what we already have.

With the changes, you won't have enough trait points to truly hybridize in a "4B/3Y" ratio/nature in the two lines. Call to the Fellowship, Call to Greatness, Inspire Fellows, and any other group utility skill is now locked into the yellow tree and most of them are not achievable if you don't select that tree as your base tree (or if you do choose that tree, you lose Rally, TS, etc from your base healing skills that are locked into that line). You won't have any of your damage skills because those are locked into another tree, so mid-fight stance swapping will be pointless... The ability to hold more than 1 buff up at a time is locked into traiting the yellow line. So expect to be able to function strongly in 1 of the roles that we have on live while not being able to do anything worthwhile in the others. Your skill rotations will be greatly lessened, your toolbox will be eliminated, and you'll have a few core skills that you grind to death. It's a very boring setup with exceedingly minimal "synergy" (if you can even call it that). So while other classes are receiving synergy, creativity, and fun, the minstrel is receiving vanilla, simplistic, and boring.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...52#post6984352

For minstrels, I don't know. It's not the class Orion left. For better or worse, that's gone. It feels adequate for dps on landscape but you have concerns about whether that is sufficient for anything else. If anything else is actually ever really required. The replacement for harmony is too odd to try and set down into words. With polish it could well be fine. There's promise there. It's two weeks before release. Blue line healing is healthy. Perhaps overly so. But splitting things out across the three trait trees leaves you missing what isn't there. It's hard logging into live and then into beta.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...28#post6984328

Class changes: as other posters already said, many classes get screwed over and lose what they loved but none come close to the treatment "revamped" Minstrel got. None of this is exaggeration. There have been about 30 pgs of class feedback thread and currently 25pg long thread with mostly great posts, detailed dps comparison, bugs, suggestions, etc. Unfortunately very very little of this was heard, or applied.It's gonna be harsh but our minstrel dev neither likes the class nor does she have knowledge of class, creativity and desire to bring meaningful improvements.

Suffice to say, while most other classes were getting page long changes almost every beta build and interaction with dev on forum few times a week, we kept getting handful of changes (or 0) and no word from her since early October.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...63#post6984563

The minstrel was my first main toon in this game. I loved it. I've always liked healing/support classes. And the minstrel offered a lot of flexibility.
Now that flexibility is much more difficult to achieve. Of the three classes I tested the minstrel is the class that I am the least happy with. It isn't just because of the trait trees, or out of spec penalties. It's the over all attitude that you have one job and it's all you can do. Healing is incredibly, incredibly potent but you have no dps with a healing set up. The dps set up doesn't seem powerful enough to sacrifice the ability to heal others for. Protector of Song- there seems to be some good there and if I play my minstrel after HD and still can't get the build I want then Protector is where I'll be (just another PoS minnie :P). The devs have thrown a few very small bones- they brought back Soliloquy of the Spirit (blue line only)and made Anthem of Composure accessible. But Anthem of the free peoples is gone. All three trait lines have passive "skills" with a primary purpose that seems just to suck up points.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...02#post6984602

I tested the minstrel and so that's where my feedback focuses. This out of spec doesn't work well in my opinion. If you are in the dps/red tree the opening traits in the yellow and blue tree are increased crit healing, Soothing Voice to increase your healing output, Anthem of Composure (which you'll need for power return in red), Anthem cooldown and improved Inspire Fellows. You would have to spend at least an additional 10 points to get to the 2nd tier and nothing there was exciting either. T2 of the yellow tree does have increased tactical mastery, but by then you're hurting for points even if you skip some things in the dps line. Anything outside your main traitline costs 2 points rather than 1.

The class feels very unfinished for only two weeks to release. There is a lot that needs to be addressed and not long to do it before this goes live. I'm sure the changes will need to continue but at the moment it's very sad to me. I disliked losing half my skills at any one time as I tended to use them all situationally, whether raiding, instances, moors, solo playing, or just kicking back with friends in a mixture of any of that. I feel like half a character and not recognizable as the minstrel I have played for 5 years.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...86#post6984886

This is the main problem I have with big battles as a minstrel, other than the fact that my class is a heartbreaking mess. You don't need a healer in there at all. No, it's never been specifically stated you don't but nobody has taken damage that I've seen in either solo or groups. As a minstrel I can't heal the NPCs who do take damage - I've tried. My fellows don't take damage - let's go back to the vid of the guardian auto-attacking mobs. So I'm left with a dps role only? I now have to compete in GLFF with groups "1/X for BBs, looking for dps classes"? Because even assuming we get a bump in dps I have to complete with a champ/RK/hunter/guard where I'll never have the dps they do. If I wanted to dps in raids I wouldn't be a minstrel.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...78#post6985678

Minstrel Legacy Eliminations:
Song of Subdual Cooldown
Piercing Cry Damage
Call of Oromë and Earendil Damage
Healing Threat
Anthem Duration

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...11#post6980911


Note: I'm not trying to cherry pick bad feedback, this is literally all the feedback I could find on Minstrel, if anyone has positive comments, I'd love to hear them. So far the only semi-good comment seems to be "Healing is so OP that it's boring."

Unfortunately, the foreshadowing of the smallest Dev Diary and what that implied about our class changes seems to have come true. But we do still have two weeks, so please keep posting feedback, we need to be vocal.