Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Champion

[toadriver]

... Or perhaps there are ways to do a dps build in the new trees that's "good enough" at both single target and aoe (sounds more likely to be yellow-based than red-based from what I'm seeing so far) and we can get by with two trait setups. ...

I wanted to be Berserker just on the principle of the matter, but I absolutely wanted Battle Frenzy and Raging Blade as well. I was able to create a build I was satisfied with by skipping things like Rend. (bleeds upset CC anyway, so I've always disliked them) The only thing lacking is Dire Need and any bubbles. And I couldn't get Battle Frenzy above +3 pips, which bugged me. I want it +5 (which costs more out-of-spec points). But I was only level 85 so maybe with 10 more points at level 95 I could get my +5. So yes, I think there's a "good enough" ST/AOE build.

Like some of you, I really have no interest in swapping specs unless I'm at a raid boss.

[warriorpoetex]

Champ is still in high distress come Beta 6.
Low-DPS across the board, sluggish red line, champion horns are consumable (you heard this right), filler tree skills that just give small amounts of either might, vitality or finesse (useless fillers to soak up skill points), and so forth.

If Champions are not changed come release, this class will be the lowest DPS in the game (by a fair margin).

On the plus side, Champions can now use crossbows ...

Let's see if 6.1/7 provides Champs with a miracle.

[dietlbomb]

...sluggish red line...

This is probably the biggest problem. As I have been repeating ad nauseam, the biggest risk with the revamp is that they are making the game more boring.

On the plus side, Champions can now use crossbows ...

It's about time! Now how about 2-handed clubs?

[dietlbomb]

I wanted to be Berserker just on the principle of the matter, but I absolutely wanted Battle Frenzy and Raging Blade as well. I was able to create a build I was satisfied with by skipping things like Rend. (bleeds upset CC anyway, so I've always disliked them) The only thing lacking is Dire Need and any bubbles. And I couldn't get Battle Frenzy above +3 pips, which bugged me. I want it +5 (which costs more out-of-spec points). But I was only level 85 so maybe with 10 more points at level 95 I could get my +5. So yes, I think there's a "good enough" ST/AOE build.

Like some of you, I really have no interest in swapping specs unless I'm at a raid boss.

I'm worried about this as well. Having to swap specs frequently to be adequate at the dps role is a big tax on the class. We should be able to fulfill our primary role in one setup.

We only get 2 free specs, so if we ever want to try something new, we have to destroy one of our dps specs.

[Gilean-EU]

I did some LI testing so here's legacies as they are in Beta 6:



Weapon Major

Name	Min	Max
Area of Effect Skill damage	+1%	+10%
Brutal Strikes damage	+1%	+15%
Critical Damage multiplier	+5%	+50%
Feral/Savage Strikes damage	+1%	+15%
Ferocious Strikes cooldown	-1	-5
Relentless/Remorseless Strikes damage	+1%	+15%
Rend Bleed damage	+3%	+25%
Wild Attack damage	+1%	+15%

Weapon Minor

Name	Min	Max
Battle Frenzy cooldown	-1	-20
Fear Nothing cooldown	-1	-30
Hamstring duration	+1	+10
Horn damage	+1%	+10%
Rend Armour Reduction	+142	+204
Sprint duration	+3	+30
Sudden Defence cooldown	-1	-15
Targeted Melee Skills range	+0.5	+1.7

Rune Major

Name	Min	Max
Blade Line AoE power cost	-1%	-10%
Blade Wall damage	+1%	+15%
Bracing Attack Heal	+1%	+15%
Champion's Horn stun duration	+1	+5
Dire Need cooldown	-4	-60
Ebbing Ire cooldown	-4	-60
Strikes Line power cost	-1%	-10%
Swift Strike/Swift Blade power cost	-2%	-30%

Rune Minor

Name	Min	Max
Adamant / Invincible duration	+1	+5
Champion Skill Bubble magnitude	+1%	+10%
Fight On duration	+1	+10
Fight On pulses	+1	+10
Fury of Blades damage from Fervour	+0.01	+0.1
Merciful Strike Health Treshold	+0.01	+0.1
Rend pulses	+1	+9
Riposte damage	+1%	+15%

( As for Fury of blades and Merciful Strike legacy, I am assuming that should be +1% and +10% but that's how it is now)

[frank1985]

Thanks Gilean for your post!
I was looking for those Legacies.

[warriorpoetex]

I'm right there with you.Pretty much how I run my champ,too

Ultimately, the rest of us are gonna have to wait and see for ourselves when it goes live. I'm getting alot of conflicting data both on the board and ingame over the changes (as expected) so I'm gonna hope for the best and expect the worse

I will be honest, compared to Live ... your DPS is a bit higher for Yellow, lower for Red and survivability is prob the same considering we gain evade/parry but lose bubbles and Dire Need. However, Red line is sluggish and woefully weak ... Champions are at current. the lowest ST DPS in the game in a DPS spec. This is as of Beta 6. Problem is skills don't follow overly well, power drain is extremely fast and our fervour bonus damage depends on how many pips we have, thus making most attacks a bout as strong as we'd see on Live fighting without Fervour stance on. Red line was also redesigned to be a High Burst fast DPS spec, sadly ... not even close to the case.

Yellow line, meant to be sustained AoE DPS pumps out good solid DPS; its ST DPS is actually equal to the Red line.

We still have 1 or 2 patches to go before Launch Day, so there could be adjustments to the class; however if the past is any indication ... the Champion will be the hardest for them to balance and typically the last they do so for.

Could be as long as the first few patches after launch for the class to become settled. Unknown as the Champion Dev has not made himself seen in regards to the Champion for quite a while now.

On the positives, Yellow Line is extremely fun to play. Crossbows are nice ... animations in general appear faster and, finally ... the Weapons Master can actually parry.

[Redit]

I did some LI testing so here's legacies as they are in Beta 6:


***Legacies!!!!***

( As for Fury of blades and Merciful Strike legacy, I am assuming that should be +1% and +10% but that's how it is now)

Thanks! I'll put this in the OP and give you credit.

[Caradras]

The rend armour reduction legacy is doing nothing (as the corresponding trait doesnt exist anymore)

The Fight on duration +1-10 sec seems suspicious too as the pulses occur once every 3 sec. Furthermore it would be strange to have 2 legacies to extend to duration of the same skill.

At a side note: Bladewall is going to do ridicioulus damage +100% through trait and +10% by AoE dmg leg. and +10% by own legacy
i had devastating hits of around 6-7k with a 2h second age (still on lvl 85 on my copied champ)

[Malganis_Lefay]

only things i dont understand are why "Exchange of blows" and "Born for Combat" are in the deadly Storm line

being hit to deal damage sounds more like the Martial Champion line

I... dont get it...

[mrfigglesworth]

The rend armour reduction legacy is doing nothing (as the corresponding trait doesnt exist anymore)

The Fight on duration +1-10 sec seems suspicious too as the pulses occur once every 3 sec. Furthermore it would be strange to have 2 legacies to extend to duration of the same skill.

At a side note: Bladewall is going to do ridicioulus damage +100% through trait and +10% by AoE dmg leg. and +10% by own legacy
i had devastating hits of around 6-7k with a 2h second age (still on lvl 85 on my copied champ)

The fight on pulses legacy has replaced the fight on duration legacy. The duration legacy no longer exists. So the +1 to 10 means 1 to 10 pulses, or basically double the duration at max rank (40 sec).

And yeah blade wall is gonna hit hard but it doesn't build pips any longer.

[mrfigglesworth]

Thanks! I'll put this in the OP and give you credit.

Did you recently change the info on rend? Does it now lower armor by default?

[Redit]

Did you recently change the info on rend? Does it now lower armor by default?

changes I make in the OP are in yellow. it does reduce armor by default

[mrfigglesworth]

changes I make in the OP are in yellow. it does reduce armor by default

thanks.

moor words

[mnenoch]

I want to thank the guys playing Beta for posting all this information. Certainly helps provide critical clarity for the changes happening. Plus it will help to make up minds about the changes and whether to keep on playing LOTRO or not.

[Melunielsigh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHn01B3kz4s


SICK! And only l85! Bersk will annihilate creeps with ease...

[MikeA]

changes I make in the OP are in yellow. it does reduce armor by default

Where are you getting that information from? I do not see it in the tooltips, and my Rend is only applying the bleed, I see no armor rend on the mobs when testing in beta.

[mrfigglesworth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHn01B3kz4s


SICK! And only l85! Bersk will annihilate creeps with ease...

considering that's a nerf in dps from live, not sure if serious........

And the moors are so absolutely torn asunder on creepside with bugs (audacity and bfp not working, fast skills from reaver and BA) and freepside with bugs(bugged skills, OP skills, champ's duel slows through EVERYTHING IN THE GAME and cannot be potted), there's no telling how it will all turn out. Right now, if freep tactical classes dps was reduced to a reasonable level it would probably be a decent moors all things considering, but still in the freeps' favor if I hear correct.

[Rubriel]

I have a question regarding champion's challenge. In the 'Understanding Threat in HD' thread, it is said that:

Force taunt skills (Engage, Fray the Edge, Challenge, Defiant Challenge...), have a force taunt mechanic, but they also have a new threat catch-up mechanic that will look at the highest threat target on the mob, and then place the tank at a percentage above them. This is intended to be used for tank swap situations, or out of control DPS. If the tank happens to be at the top of the threat list, the force attack component comes into play, allowing the Guardian a bit of time to generate additional threat with their skills.

Has our Champion's Challenge skill received the same treatment? Do we receive any other threat copy/forced taunt skill as part of the martial champion line, comparable to that of guardians and wardens? The survivability in blue line sounds fantastic; thinking of experimenting with my champ as a fully-fledged tank this expansion, but that will depend on being able to hold aggro as well as the main 2 tanking classes...

[Zelol]

considering that's a nerf in dps from live, not sure if serious........

And the moors are so absolutely torn asunder on creepside with bugs (audacity and bfp not working, fast skills from reaver and BA) and freepside with bugs(bugged skills, OP skills, champ's duel slows through EVERYTHING IN THE GAME and cannot be potted), there's no telling how it will all turn out. Right now, if freep tactical classes dps was reduced to a reasonable level it would probably be a decent moors all things considering, but still in the freeps' favor if I hear correct.

I think it was more of a showoff of skill animations and rough dps, it didn't really follow a rotation and stuff like horn was used.

I had a dps boost from live when I last played in Beta 4 (3.5k > 3.9k but this was with the broken Remo buff).

Champion's Duel will be a ridiculous troll skill allowing you to slow enemies and escape, maybe if the effect had a %chance to be broken upon stun/daze like Catch Prey and Flayer root.

[Melunielsigh]

I think it was more of a showoff of skill animations and rough dps, it didn't really follow a rotation and stuff like horn was used.

I had a dps boost from live when I last played in Beta 4 (3.5k > 3.9k but this was with the broken Remo buff).

Champion's Duel will be a ridiculous troll skill allowing you to slow enemies and escape, maybe if the effect had a %chance to be broken upon stun/daze like Catch Prey and Flayer root.

Nerf inc caused by incredible creep community whining. ( I predicted future )

[Redit]

Where are you getting that information from? I do not see it in the tooltips, and my Rend is only applying the bleed, I see no armor rend on the mobs when testing in beta.

as soon as I saw the question I went on beta to look at it and saw it on the tooltip. perhaps it self improves at a certain level, were you 85? I could have just missed some sort of trait or something that gave it the armor reduction. unfortunately beta is closed at the moment and for good so I can't get on and check it again.

MAYBE the legacy is the only thing that gives it the armor rend.

I'll make a note in the OP about it.

[mrfigglesworth]

I think it was more of a showoff of skill animations and rough dps, it didn't really follow a rotation and stuff like horn was used.

I had a dps boost from live when I last played in Beta 4 (3.5k > 3.9k but this was with the broken Remo buff).

Champion's Duel will be a ridiculous troll skill allowing you to slow enemies and escape, maybe if the effect had a %chance to be broken upon stun/daze like Catch Prey and Flayer root.

can you go into more detail about the 3.9k? For example, was it wild+remorseless and ferocious whenever off cd? Swapping dwand 2h? dev pot? time duration? was it at lvl 85 with the exact same gear you had from live?

[mrfigglesworth]

someone was saying that they couldn't find an armor reduction on rend so there might be a trait or something that I missed that gave it the armor reduction. Maybe the Legacy?

as of beta 5 there was no way to include -armor reduction to rend. The fact that it hasn't been removed as a legacy implies they were going to add it back somewhere but I haven't seen it.

[Redit]

as of beta 5 there was no way to include -armor reduction to rend. The fact that it hasn't been removed as a legacy implies they were going to add it back somewhere but I haven't seen it.

I checked on monday with BETA 6 and I saw an armor reduction on rend.