Official Class Change notes.

[Alotlost]

As much as I appreciate and love this work by BoBash and co, I am disappointed, to not have an 'offical' Dev release notes on our class changes. Honestly, I cannot understand, how it can be thought that a player's observations/views, can replace that, which should be completed by an official member of the Turbine team. Especially, as there may have been some changes by dev's not caught by players.

In my eyes, this devalues, that which I considered to be a hard working team.

I apologise if this offends anyone, but I feel we the clients, deserve more than to be 'peer' led.

[Palentian]

As I recall, the group that produced the class change guides volunteered to do so. Their work was considered so good that it was allowed to stand as official. This freed up the devs to concentrate on other tasks and they were much appreciative of it.

[Beorthnoth]

The postings you refer to are compilations of observations by large numbers of players and posted in beta class forums. They're based on more hours of play-time than could possibly be put in by any dev. The dev can tell you what he's done; players can tell you the results of their practical experiences, and, believe me, are mostly distillations of 40-50 page threads.

[Beaniemooch]

As I recall, the group that produced the class change guides volunteered to do so. Their work was considered so good that it was allowed to stand as official. This freed up the devs to concentrate on other tasks and they were much appreciative of it.

Hm, the way I remember it was somebody volunteered to do one, Sapience said something about go ahead and make them and he'd review them and post them. Not that they were "so good" they were allowed to stand as official.

Some of the classes are still unfinished so even the player class guides may be more "it's supposed to be this" rather than this is how it is. Minstrel for example is expected to have a number of changes in December because they were unfinished before release. Why have an official Turbine class change guide for something that's not done?

[manstan]

Well I am lost and confused, logged in checked my hunter; main, and half his attacks are gone. Not at all sure what to do.

[TinDragon]

Well I am lost and confused, logged in checked my hunter; main, and half his attacks are gone. Not at all sure what to do.

Try reading the hunter guide?

[manstan]

Try reading the hunter guide?

It looks straight forward enough, I have points to buy skills/traits to get attacks or buffs.

[Aineas.]

As I recall, the group that produced the class change guides volunteered to do so. Their work was considered so good that it was allowed to stand as official. This freed up the devs to concentrate on other tasks and they were much appreciative of it.

and still they manage to bring out how it is now, some classes unfinished... sad...

whats missing is the personal touch of the devs as well as the intention of things. Maybe it was good, but still doesn't excuse the devs of showing something personal. Then again, kinda been the sound of this all: lack of turbine communication.

[Palentian]

and still they manage to bring out how it is now, some classes unfinished... sad...

whats missing is the personal touch of the devs as well as the intention of things. Maybe it was good, but still doesn't excuse the devs of showing something personal. Then again, kinda been the sound of this all: lack of turbine communication.

There will be no personal touching of or BY the devs. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

I'd actually rather the devs work on other things. I doubt they would have come up with a more comprehensive guide than what those players did.

[manstan]

I sort of understand it, but it still looks like i have lost a lot of attacks and buffs with no way to get them back. My champions attacks have been gutted.

[Sapience]

As I recall, the group that produced the class change guides volunteered to do so. Their work was considered so good that it was allowed to stand as official. This freed up the devs to concentrate on other tasks and they were much appreciative of it.

The postings you refer to are compilations of observations by large numbers of players and posted in beta class forums. They're based on more hours of play-time than could possibly be put in by any dev. The dev can tell you what he's done; players can tell you the results of their practical experiences, and, believe me, are mostly distillations of 40-50 page threads.

These comments sum it up nicely.

[Glumposneak]

I hope they all got free premium editions for doing Turbines work in their free time, they certainly should have.

[gardavil]

These comments sum it up nicely.

That's good to hear. It would be much appreciated if these Class Guides written by Players would mod'ed to show Turbine has placed it's "Seal of Approval" upon them. Some official statement in each one at the beginning would be fantastic.

Thank you kindly.

[Darlgon]

That's good to hear. It would be much appreciated if these Class Guides written by Players would mod'ed to show Turbine has placed it's "Seal of Approval" upon them. Some official statement in each one at the beginning would be fantastic.

Thank you kindly.

Well.. they are stickied to the top of the forums...

[Aineas.]

There will be no personal touching of or BY the devs. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

I'd actually rather the devs work on other things. I doubt they would have come up with a more comprehensive guide than what those players did.

Intention cannot be summed up by players. And like I said, with all this extra time they still manage to not finish classes. But it all shows again and again: LACK of dev communication all over the board... this has been said so many times across the board and throughout the all the pages of comments made. Even look at minstrel, changes that could be blindly implemented, lists of em, and still a broken unfinished class upon release. Like I said, bless the players that wrote them and really awesome job. I expected more communication from the devs throughout the process though.

[Alotlost]

These comments sum it up nicely.

Although, I appreciate what you are saying here. There is a difference between the players view... How things work... to the Devs intention.. working as intended. From what I remember from all the pages of discussion, there were lots of confusions even to the very end on how things should be working. I am talking of the pages, from minstrel feedback, of 'stance intentions' and even at the very end... the confusion over whether Rally was being changed to a standard skill, or remain gated behind watcher.

Concerning Minstrel, this feels more important to have a dev response, as there are more improvements to arrive. Some classes, had lots of communication from devs the whole process through, which assisted understanding, in the direction, reasoning and intent of changes. I looked forward to seeing some sort of insight into 'the dev's intention, giving an explicit view of the roles of the minstrel and felt let down by the absence of direction.

EDIT: I had to add, because I don't want this to look like a 'troll' rebel against authority thread. I have every respect for our developers, QA's and ofc community liason peeps (Sapience and co). I feel, they work hard with many constraints, complete much ' behind the scene' work, with little thanks from us as players. And, I do thank you for your work, in attempting to give us a world to spend our leisure time, keeping the community a wonderful place to spend our leisure time in.

[FittyBolger]

Hm, the way I remember it was somebody volunteered to do one, Sapience said something about go ahead and make them and he'd review them and post them. Not that they were "so good" they were allowed to stand as official.

Some of the classes are still unfinished so even the player class guides may be more "it's supposed to be this" rather than this is how it is. Minstrel for example is expected to have a number of changes in December because they were unfinished before release. Why have an official Turbine class change guide for something that's not done?

Yup Beanie... I think there was some real passion shown by the people doing those guides... one of the very few positive things in our months of BETA IMO.

Why not latch onto it, exploit it and milk it for whatever it's worth? (I'm feeling very cynical about all things Trees = can you tell? )

[Jillymala]

I could have sworn someplace a dev had said they were going to rely on player made guides more heavily for BB and stuff.... I know I read it but can't remember where. Maybe someone else can verify that cause now I think I am losing my mind lol

[Alotlost]

I could have sworn someplace a dev had said they were going to rely on player made guides more heavily for BB and stuff.... I know I read it but can't remember where. Maybe someone else can verify that cause now I think I am losing my mind lol

I truly hope this is not so. I don't pay for this game for other players, to instruct me on how they interpret the classes, game instances. Player guides should be an addition to, not take the place of official information. I don't pay, for members of the public, to set out guidelines on the product I have bought.

[TKH]

^Whether you pay or not, these guides are free. Your payment is only revelant to in-game stuffs.

Personally, I like guides written by players than offical guides. These guides take the point of view of a player about the game, which is fairer than the point of view of a developer. Seriously, I don't think the developers will ever criticize their own work, or Turbine will allow that. Just like you ask a store-owner: 'Does this candy taste nice', and you will surely receive an 'Of course' as an answer.

Plus, I believe that a player who writes the guide know better what other players need to know than a developer. Just take a look at the developer's class diaries and these guides.

[Widoch]

These comments sum it up nicely.

We appreciate the vote of confidence.

I hope they all got free premium editions for doing Turbines work in their free time, they certainly should have.

I got a warm toasty feeling in my gut. Though, that could have been the BLT I was eating while writing my guide.

That's good to hear. It would be much appreciated if these Class Guides written by Players would mod'ed to show Turbine has placed it's "Seal of Approval" upon them. Some official statement in each one at the beginning would be fantastic.

They are stickied and they're part of the official release notes. So, I think they pretty much have done that.

I believe that a player who writes the guide know better what other players need to know than a developer. Just take a look at the developer's class diaries and these guides.

I only organized the hunter guide, but I think I can speak for all the guide organizers when I say that these guides are very much a compilation of multiple players over the course of a few weeks and many hours of play time. The guides are only as good as the players who help nail things down. About 30% - 40% of the hunter guide was put together though feedback from a lot of really helpful people who went the extra mile to help me verify and test things to make sure what I posted was accurate.

I say all this to make the point that these guides (and I'm not trying to toot my own horn) are the result of more combined hours and voices of feedback than the devs could ever get doing it themselves. My goal was to simply make a list of facts of what can be observed and proven. We aren't trying to tell anyone how to play their class.