Same loots for all instances ?!

[PKCrichton]

Valid reasons, I had the same issue many times, but then why leave some items remote loot and only challenge chests free roll/master loot?

The purple/teal gear are all bind on equip. Gold loot is bind on acquire. That is the reasoning.

[spelunker]

The purple/teal gear are all bind on equip. Gold loot is bind on acquire. That is the reasoning.

Are you sure there are lvl 95 gold class items from scaled classic instances?

[PKCrichton]

Are you sure there are lvl 95 gold class items from scaled classic instances?

Honestly I don't know. I'm just saying the way it has been previously is the top gear was BoA and not BoE.

[Stephen1981]

Honestly I don't know. I'm just saying the way it has been previously is the top gear was BoA and not BoE.

i thought i saw in beta that the gold items had been removed and that might bring them back at a later date but anyone who still had them got to keep them

[PKCrichton]

i thought i saw in beta that the gold items had been removed and that might bring them back at a later date but anyone who still had them got to keep them

I know gold items exist from bb platinum cashout but I'm not sure about the others. Now that you mention it I think you could be right though I seem to recall a discussion about them being gone from scaled instances with a possible readdition later.

[Bhoris_they_spider]

Given that this is true, are you guys at Turbine releasing some type of list to help people out or is it incumbent upon the players to gather the requisite information?

It wouldn't even have to be something specific, just a general idea of what type of stuff is where.

Yes, please see the incredible amount of work that went in to:

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/User...Item_Checklist

All for nothing now you have changed everything up again. It was fun running scaled instances in U10 to find out what loot drops where. Having to do it all over again in under 1 years time is just tedious.

[Herongol]

just for the record Verizal, the way loot distribution is _supposed_ to work, is actually awesome! (in my opionion, obviously)

Now someone just needs to balance the instances so that running my loremaster in support mode is equally usefull to running it in DPS mode, I would be back to beeing a happy camper...

[Bhoris_they_spider]

Ran quite a few 3-man CMs last night. irobar's peak, stoneheights, north cotton farm, hall of night, school

I didn't see much evidence of this 'guaranteed teal' from CM chests

[domehehe]

pls reimplement alle the gold class-items from erebor scaled for 95

could look like this-->



for some players like me, its the only reason to run 3man/ 6man oder 12man inis

PLS PLS PLS

[Herongol]

while we have the idem-Dev's attention here:

is it intentional that for many items, the stat for which the are named is higher in the rare (purple) then incomparable (teal) version?
for example: the potent resolute ring of fate (purple) has 93 fate, while the greater resolute ring of fate (teal) only has 62 fate (while having higher stats for everything else)

[Darlgon]

We still do intend to do a full-on revision to how our caps are set up, but much of what you are seeing now will be addressed through further class revisions and adjustments to mobs that are 85+

Soo.. stat caps are coming back?

[KaylanCloud]

Did anyone in beta record a data set of instance drops by any chance?

Something like :-

Potent Dextrous Shoulderpads of Finesse dropped from Library challenge chest for a warden
Potent Dextrous Shoulderpads of Prowess dropped from Library challenge chest for a hunter
Greater Valourous Pocket of Finesse dropped from Library challenge chest for a champion

Instance	Class	Chest	Quality	Prefix	ItemSlot	Suffix
Library Library Library	Warden Hunter Champion	Challenge Challenge Challenge	Potent Potent Greater	Dextrous Dextrous Valourous	Shoulders Necklace Pocket	Finesse Prowess Finesse

We can then try working out instance grouping and itemslot allocations from the data if recorded.

[Doom4435]

with regard to the devs question about whether or not the challenge chest was indeed dropping the lot intended to be rolled on from the challenge chest, YES, this is working, HOWEVER only for the skirmish raid chests.

In BG, this is not the case, (same for sg).
BG: each boss drops two chests,(which one is challenge I don't know because I only do challenge)
chest 1: everyone gets 2-6 items ranging from bounty relics runes rare incomparable symbols and premium items such as remembrance stat tomes etc
chest 2: 1 bounty for each raid member, + 1-2 relics runes to be rolled on (###### right?)

my theory is that chest 2, (likely the challenge chest) was supposed to contain a number of incomparable items to be rolled on.

this occurs for all bosses in bg,

with regard to sg, this function s the same way except chest 1 is from gorothul, and chest 2 from demafear

(all the above done at t2) with challenge

[Sandgorgan]

with regard to the devs question about whether or not the challenge chest was indeed dropping the lot intended to be rolled on from the challenge chest, YES, this is working, HOWEVER only for the skirmish raid chests.

In BG, this is not the case, (same for sg).
BG: each boss drops two chests,(which one is challenge I don't know because I only do challenge)
chest 1: everyone gets 2-6 items ranging from bounty relics runes rare incomparable symbols and premium items such as remembrance stat tomes etc
chest 2: 1 bounty for each raid member, + 1-2 relics runes to be rolled on (###### right?)

my theory is that chest 2, (likely the challenge chest) was supposed to contain a number of incomparable items to be rolled on.

this occurs for all bosses in bg,

with regard to sg, this function s the same way except chest 1 is from gorothul, and chest 2 from demafear

(all the above done at t2) with challenge

This is accurate, the challenge chest is only dropping runes and relics, no items what to speak of.... I can confirm this for challenge modes for school, library, and sword halls. We've run 48 sh challenges in the past 2 days and only one teal item has dropped and that was not from the challenge chest.

[Mirthan]

As for the guaranteed incomparable item from the challenge chest: We were doing Elendil in Annuminas yesterday and didn't get such an item from the challenge chest. However, we noticed that the chest didn't vanish after opening when it should be empty. So I suppose that the item may be in it, but the part of the distribution/roll is probably the buggy part.

[spelunker]

Not exactly on topic, but has incoming healing been removed as a potential stat on gear? I haven't seen any item with it so far...

[Castorix]

Not exactly on topic, but has incoming healing been removed as a potential stat on gear? I haven't seen any item with it so far...

I haven't seen eitheir.

And I also don't understand why the main stats are the same everywhere, with Vitality added on every item :
217 Main stat + 186 Vitality or 217 Vitality +186 Main stat, which are ~identical with main stat and Vitality close to 4000.

This will end up with nearly the same gear for everyone... unlike before where I could choose for example an earring with 150 Might + PM + critic without Vitality for DPS or an earring with Vitality/Morale only for tanking.

[Grimdi]

And I also don't understand why the main stats are the same everywhere, with Vitality added on every item :
217 Main stat + 186 Vitality or 217 Vitality +186 Main stat, which are ~identical with main stat and Vitality close to 4000.

This will end up with nearly the same gear for everyone... unlike before where I could choose for example an earring with 150 Might + PM + critic without Vitality for DPS or an earring with Vitality/Morale only for tanking.

This is intentional (confirmed during beta). Most likely to simplify future balancing when they don't have to account anymore for huge differences between "extreme" builds, and simplify itemization (see stats on EB rewards being identical for heavy/light classes). And tanks needed more primary stats for the threat revamp to work. With item level 176 glass cannon builds could reach close to 200% outgoing damage and capped outgoing healing (could be seen in EBs with upscaled 85 gear) while a "normal" 95 build would probably have a hard time reaching 120%. Same reason why class skills are mostly irrelevant in EBs compared to roles (at least for solo versions), it would have been impossible to balance properly.
And if you think it through, the huge bump in item level can be seen simply as a "forced" upgrade to the new scheme. I'm a bit surprised that apparently very few people have realized this yet.

[Rasimir]

Wait... do I get this right, the gold drops from the instances are gone instead of scaled, and the teal drops are vastly the same across all instances? There is no incentive to run the various instance clusters anymore?

If that is true, it is ridiculous. And a very clear sign that Helm's deep wasn't remotely finished when it went live. We know the class balance (balance between the classes, and the mobs) needs work. We know the battles need work, some quests are still disabled. And now we learn that the itemization for all the instance clusters just didn't happen and was replaced by one general loot table for all?

I was under the impression that taking my time to explore and then piece for piece upping my equip from the different instances would provide enough fun to carry me to some supposed spring update with areas and perhaps some instances. But dopping the same stuff everywhere doesn't provide this fun.

Of course there isn't much that can be done now, but PLEASE Turbine put all your effords into changing this situation as fast as possible, perhaps even make it possible to get a better system with 12.1

[spelunker]

This is intentional (confirmed during beta). Most likely to simplify future balancing when they don't have to account anymore for huge differences between "extreme" builds, and simplify itemization (see stats on EB rewards being identical for heavy/light classes). And tanks needed more primary stats for the threat revamp to work. With item level 176 glass cannon builds could reach close to 200% outgoing damage and capped outgoing healing (could be seen in EBs with upscaled 85 gear) while a "normal" 95 build would probably have a hard time reaching 120%. Same reason why class skills are mostly irrelevant in EBs compared to roles (at least for solo versions), it would have been impossible to balance properly.
And if you think it through, the huge bump in item level can be seen simply as a "forced" upgrade to the new scheme. I'm a bit surprised that apparently very few people have realized this yet.

Why did tanks need more primary stats for the system to work? The validity of the new threat system aside (I think its garbage), we tanks could have simply been given a 5 x threat multiplier instead of the 3 x multiplier we have now. The changes just make it harder to balance content now, since everyone regardless of class is going to enjoy a closer relative morale pool and mitigation value compared to past expansions, meaning vastly different class makeups will be able to survive in given roles, and things like lost threat will have far less problematic results.

Wait... do I get this right, the gold drops from the instances are gone instead of scaled, and the teal drops are vastly the same across all instances? There is no incentive to run the various instance clusters anymore?

If that is true, it is ridiculous. And a very clear sign that Helm's deep wasn't remotely finished when it went live. We know the class balance (balance between the classes, and the mobs) needs work. We know the battles need work, some quests are still disabled. And now we learn that the itemization for all the instance clusters just didn't happen and was replaced by one general loot table for all?

I was under the impression that taking my time to explore and then piece for piece upping my equip from the different instances would provide enough fun to carry me to some supposed spring update with areas and perhaps some instances. But dopping the same stuff everywhere doesn't provide this fun.

Of course there isn't much that can be done now, but PLEASE Turbine put all your effords into changing this situation as fast as possible, perhaps even make it possible to get a better system with 12.1

You've misunderstood what Verizal has said. Everything here is made up by me, but should illustrate how the system works:
You're a champ, so you have the potential to win might items. There are 3 primary stat might earrings in the game at 95, 1 with a focus on crit, 1 with a focus on finesse, one with max morale. Each only drops from 2 classic instances, so to get the crit heavy one, you must run either School, or Fornost Fire. The Finesse one only drops in OD Wound Wing and Thorog Drake Wing, and the Morale one only GB Thadur and Inn of the Forsaken. When looking to upgrade Gloves with primary might stats, you must run Skirmish Raids, with Might Glove A only dropping in Gondamon, Glove B in Tuckborough and Necromancer's Gate, and Glove C only Rescue in the Rift. When looking for primary might Pockets, you must run the various Epic battles.

My guess is there are a lot more than 3 different options for each inventory slot with a focus on whatever your main stat is, so there are likely more than 5 or 6 instances you can run if you are looking for a might earring, but if you see someone with an earring with 217 might, 185 vit, 700 crit, 800 finesse and want that exact item, there will only be 1 or 2 places you can go to get it.




Its disappointing to see some stats seemingly no longer being available on items (Incoming Healing, Resistance, Mitigations, as far as I can tell) as classes are being further pushed into cookie cutter builds, since everyone who takes the time to fully gear out is going to wind up in a very narrow window of main-stat and vitality, since every single item has one of two values for each of these stats. Having done the math from the teal values I've seen it doesn't seem like it will take too much effort for people to cap EVERY relevant stat, and bring the ratings DEEP into the diminishing returns end of uncapped stats (phys mastery, finesse, crit D).

While stat bloat, stat homogenization, and push towards cookie cutter builds is problematic, now that I've run a number of instances at 95 I'm confident in saying that instance difficulty is bugged in its own right, independently of 'overpowered' freep stats. At lvl 85 I could solo a decent number of Skraids, and while it took a while and specific LT combinations were flat out unbeatable. At 85 in order to do this I had to go with an extremely tanky build with capped mitigations, near-capped avoidances, 25% incoming healing, and an extremely defensive skill rotation for many pulls. I 'tanked' some skraids for a kin run yesterday. By kin run I mean 4-6 of us total, NO healers of any type and all of us at best moderately geared. Personally I was wearing 6 pieces of lvl 85 Hytbold DPS armour (2 fist, 4 spear) and almost entirely purple 95 jewelry with an agility/crit/finesse focus, rather than vitality/bpe, dps LIs with no avoidance or healing legacies and mastery/crit relics. My BPE was just over half of what it was at 85, my mitigations far from capped, 0 incoming healing rating, very low crit defense, and my morale pool only about 2k higher than back at 85. Despite my character being significantly weaker in nearly every statistic relevant to tanking, it was embarrassingly easy, even with previously 'impossible' LT combinations to solo (Defender of the Vile and Brothers of Destruction, Defender and Snapper, etc). Heck, I Face-tanked Brothers of Destruction and a Leadfoot Brute at once, and never really feared dying, without a healer. This is a problem far bigger than even at 85 when things were pretty easy to begin with. I should also mention while I was specced determination, I had roughly 30 points in Determination and 30 points in Recklessness, so I was far from traited for pure survivability.

All of this really begs the question: If loot quality is basically boring junk, the biggest challenge in instances even when ignoring the basic mechanics of fights is staying awake, and PvMP is even worse than PvE, why do I still log in? I guess this is just a tribute to the brilliance of the class Graalx2 created.